2016 Giro d'Italia - Stage 6 Ponte – Roccaraso 157 km MTF

[Brullnux]

Nibali quite bad, Valverde considering this is his kind of climb also bad, Landa also bad. I'd say Landa worse as Nibali has the excuse of his crappy attack for not being able to follow a) Dumoulin b)Majka and c) Valverde. Sad to see, though, that crappy attack taking so much out of him. But 20 seconds isn't so bad. Could've been a lot worse. Let's see on Saturday. I fear an out of shape Nibali could lose 1 minute plus, and Landa who's looking bad could lose quite a bit too. On Sunday it will be a different skill, so not going to take too much out of that one.

Oh, and nice from Wellens. I'd thought he went a bit too early because of the way he seems to always be on the verge of cracking and having a Taaramae like bonk.

 

[Taxus4a]

Re:

According to Dumoulin Nibali attacked at the wrong moment when the road was flattening out, Dumoulin himself waited for the next steep ramp.
There was also a strong headwind.
Still, Nibali is not at his best right now, but the Giro is still long and Nibali is always capable of doing well in a technical TT, he'll come back.
I kinda expected Firsanov to go with Zakarin and Dumoulin.

Nibali did a mistake.. he was brave, and I aplaude that, but he wanst very clever. He though nobody will go for him, but there was still workers as Nieve... this is not like when TVG atacked in Cataluña that Contador needed to go for himself.

But Nibali must be worried that Nieve almost close the gap quite easy in a false flat...if you have not your best day, just save energy.

 

[masking_agent]

I wanna know where that Uran character has been ? I took a reddit forum beating for saying he'll never win a GT so far I'm still right

 

[yaco]

Re:

Orica waited too long again...once again.

Why blame Orica - Its not up to them to chase the breakaway.

 

[yaco]

As I posted a few days ago Dumoulin could lead the GC by over 2 minutes after Sunday - Considering the parcours of this Giro is the softest of the 3 GT's then Dumoulin is giving himself every opportunity.

 

[Kwibus]

Re: 2016 Giro d'Italia - Stage 6 Ponte – Roccaraso 157 km MT

Sheesh I really wonder why people are saying that Dumoulin is playing mind games.

He's getting morale from doing great, but does anyone belief that he will survive the high mountains? Have you seen those stages? No way he'll survive those days.

He knows that as well, but is just going all out now and will see what happens in the last week. Who knows maybe he'll survive ...he will try, ofcourse, but I give it 10% and I think I'm generous about it.

 

[Kwibus]

Re: Re:

Orica waited too long again...once again.

Why blame Orica - Its not up to them to chase the breakaway.

Orica are the masters of waiting for other teams to work for their man. Today they all of the sudden start to chase hard when the gap has run up to over 9 minutes with less then 40km to go.

Why? Becuase Chaves was feeling good and they thought he had a chance to win... I cant think of any other reason. Well if they wanted to give Chaves a shot of going for the win they should've started chasing when Lampre stopped chasing and the gap was below 5 minutes with a bit over 50km to go.

So they waited and waited and then it was too late. I don't understand why they even started again....

 

[masking_agent]

Re: 2016 Giro d'Italia - Stage 6 Ponte – Roccaraso 157 km MT

Sheesh I really wonder why people are saying that Dumoulin is playing mind games.

He's getting morale from doing great, but does anyone belief that he will survive the high mountains? Have you seen those stages? No way he'll survive those days.

He knows that as well, but is just going all out now and will see what happens in the last week. Who knows maybe he'll survive ...he will try, ofcourse, but I give it 10% and I think I'm generous about it.

yeh, the jury is out on him. He cracked in the last year's Vuelta so we'll see if he can get over the hump of late stages in a grand tour.

 

[Kwibus]

Re: 2016 Giro d'Italia - Stage 6 Ponte – Roccaraso 157 km MT

Sheesh I really wonder why people are saying that Dumoulin is playing mind games.

He's getting morale from doing great, but does anyone belief that he will survive the high mountains? Have you seen those stages? No way he'll survive those days.

He knows that as well, but is just going all out now and will see what happens in the last week. Who knows maybe he'll survive ...he will try, ofcourse, but I give it 10% and I think I'm generous about it.

yeh, the jury is out on him. He cracked in the last year's Vuelta so we'll see if he can get over the hump of late stages in a grand tour.

The Giro humps are quite a bit nastier than the Vuelta humps.

 

[yaco]

Re: Re:

Orica waited too long again...once again.

Why blame Orica - Its not up to them to chase the breakaway.

Orica are the masters of waiting for other teams to work for their man. Today they all of the sudden start to chase hard when the gap has run up to over 9 minutes with less then 40km to go.

Why? Becuase Chaves was feeling good and they thought he had a chance to win... I cant think of any other reason. Well if they wanted to give Chaves a shot of going for the win they should've started chasing when Lampre stopped chasing and the gap was below 5 minutes with a bit over 50km to go.

So they waited and waited and then it was too late. I don't understand why they even started again....

Whether OGE are the masters of waiting is irrelevant to todays stage

OGE hardly rode strongly at the front - Despite what you think OGE had no reason to ride at the front of the peleton - It would have been better if Chavez followed Dumoulin's wheel on the final climb, instead of staing with the rest of the GC guys - That was the mistake today.

 

[Valv.Piti]

Re: 2016 Giro d'Italia - Stage 6 Ponte – Roccaraso 157 km MT

Sheesh I really wonder why people are saying that Dumoulin is playing mind games.

He's getting morale from doing great, but does anyone belief that he will survive the high mountains? Have you seen those stages? No way he'll survive those days.

He knows that as well, but is just going all out now and will see what happens in the last week. Who knows maybe he'll survive ...he will try, ofcourse, but I give it 10% and I think I'm generous about it.

I have been very clear from the start. Dumoulin definitely is bullshitting IMO. Not at the same level that Contador in 2014 Vuelta, but close to it. He was brilliant in Romandie considering it was a buildup and I can't see why he wouldn't continue.

But the rivals are more clever, they know they can't wait now. Bodes well for the race itself, but Im confident that Dumoulin is able to hold his own. All he need is a little luck

 

[Kwibus]

Re: Re:

Orica waited too long again...once again.

Why blame Orica - Its not up to them to chase the breakaway.

Orica are the masters of waiting for other teams to work for their man. Today they all of the sudden start to chase hard when the gap has run up to over 9 minutes with less then 40km to go.

Why? Becuase Chaves was feeling good and they thought he had a chance to win... I cant think of any other reason. Well if they wanted to give Chaves a shot of going for the win they should've started chasing when Lampre stopped chasing and the gap was below 5 minutes with a bit over 50km to go.

So they waited and waited and then it was too late. I don't understand why they even started again....

Whether OGE are the masters of waiting is irrelevant to todays stage

OGE hardly rode strongly at the front - Despite what you think OGE had no reason to ride at the front of the peleton - It would have been better if Chavez followed Dumoulin's wheel on the final climb, instead of staing with the rest of the GC guys - That was the mistake today.

I had to leave pretty soon after they hit the front. The only reason they hit the front was....? Well?
They had no reason... I agree, but they did and why would that be you think? To show their jersey?

 

[Kwibus]

I don't know if it was mentioned before, but Dumoulin actually advised Wellens to attack with 70km to go and with 60km to go Ligthart said to Wellens that it would be a good time to attack so after to 2 advices he figured he's better give it a try.

Job well done by lotto soudal I must say. You can always count on them attacking. Love the team.

 

[Kwibus]

Re: 2016 Giro d'Italia - Stage 6 Ponte – Roccaraso 157 km MT

Sheesh I really wonder why people are saying that Dumoulin is playing mind games.

He's getting morale from doing great, but does anyone belief that he will survive the high mountains? Have you seen those stages? No way he'll survive those days.

He knows that as well, but is just going all out now and will see what happens in the last week. Who knows maybe he'll survive ...he will try, ofcourse, but I give it 10% and I think I'm generous about it.

I have been very clear from the start. Dumoulin definitely is ****** IMO. Not at the same level that Contador in 2014 Vuelta, but close to it. He was brilliant in Romandie considering it was a buildup and I can't see why he wouldn't continue.

But the rivals are more clever, they know they can't wait now. Bodes well for the race itself, but Im confident that Dumoulin is able to hold his own. All he need is a little luck

For you it's very clear apparently. All the mindreaders on this forum.... People always see more than there actually is.

 

[Samamba]

Re:

I don't know if it was mentioned before, but Dumoulin actually advised Wellens to attack with 70km to go and with 60km to go Ligthart said to Wellens that it would be a good time to attack so after to 2 advices he figured he's better give it a try.

Job well done by lotto soudal I must say. You can always count on them attacking. Love the team.

It helps when you're good friends with the maglia rosa.

 

[yaco]

Re: Re:

Orica waited too long again...once again.

Why blame Orica - Its not up to them to chase the breakaway.

Orica are the masters of waiting for other teams to work for their man. Today they all of the sudden start to chase hard when the gap has run up to over 9 minutes with less then 40km to go.

Why? Becuase Chaves was feeling good and they thought he had a chance to win... I cant think of any other reason. Well if they wanted to give Chaves a shot of going for the win they should've started chasing when Lampre stopped chasing and the gap was below 5 minutes with a bit over 50km to go.

So they waited and waited and then it was too late. I don't understand why they even started again....

Whether OGE are the masters of waiting is irrelevant to todays stage

OGE hardly rode strongly at the front - Despite what you think OGE had no reason to ride at the front of the peleton - It would have been better if Chavez followed Dumoulin's wheel on the final climb, instead of staing with the rest of the GC guys - That was the mistake today.

I had to leave pretty soon after they hit the front. The only reason they hit the front was....? Well?
They had no reason... I agree, but they did and why would that be you think? To show their jersey?

So some of your text in previous posts was just a point scoring exercise.

 

[Valv.Piti]

Im not proclaiming to be a mind reader, it's just my take on Dumoulin. I could definitely understand it last year and I can still understand it this year considering it helps taking the pressure of him. From what I've heard and from my experiences, the Dutch are very passionated about their athletes so its only clever to play himself a bit down. The hype train can go wild and if Im not wrong, it probably already has, even if Dumoulin time and time again attempts to play himself down.

I might be wrong, you may be right. Maybe the answer lies in between as it often does!

 

[Taxus4a]

Re: 2016 Giro d'Italia - Stage 6 Ponte – Roccaraso 157 km MT

Sheesh I really wonder why people are saying that Dumoulin is playing mind games.

He's getting morale from doing great, but does anyone belief that he will survive the high mountains? Have you seen those stages? No way he'll survive those days.

He knows that as well, but is just going all out now and will see what happens in the last week. Who knows maybe he'll survive ...he will try, ofcourse, but I give it 10% and I think I'm generous about it.

I have been very clear from the start. Dumoulin definitely is ****** IMO. Not at the same level that Contador in 2014 Vuelta, but close to it. He was brilliant in Romandie considering it was a buildup and I can't see why he wouldn't continue.

But the rivals are more clever, they know they can't wait now. Bodes well for the race itself, but Im confident that Dumoulin is able to hold his own. All he need is a little luck

With that team he can lost his surname climbing the Agnello. He is going to be the leader of the Giro lot of time, he has olimpics in his mind as well, but till then the others has to attack him becouse he is going to take more time...
He is a very good rider and he i the rider we beed for GC, a powerfull man very strong in ITT and in a lot of terrainsm but with some weakness in the hight mountains, but just oif you attack him properly day by day at the end...

It doesnt matter if he finish top ten or no, he is already one of the men of this Giro, and that is important. The way he passed Nibali today it will be remerber.

But as Landa said about the men where ahead today, he thing the main rivals are others...

Dumoulin put 20 minutes on Landa in Cumbre del Sol... but Landa droped Dumoulin in la Morcuera, la Morcuera is not Agnello, La Morcuera is not Giau... so I understand what Landa means...

But today lot of people put time on Landa, just some second, but of course some of thoe people will count a lot...

 

[Taxus4a]

Tim Wellens remind me Jens Voigt, even in his way on the bike...It lokks he is going to be a similar kind of rider...

 

[Kwibus]

Re: Re:

So some of your text in previous posts was just a point scoring exercise.

Orica hit the front too late, simple as that. Like they usually do.

 

[Valv.Piti]

Good post, Taxus.

And yes, Wellens definitely is a nice bike rider. I don't know if he reminds me of Voigt, I honestly don't like him that much, but more types of Wellens in the peloton please.

 

[SeriousSam]

Re: 2016 Giro d'Italia - Stage 6 Ponte – Roccaraso 157 km MT

So according to Nibali his form is great, it's just that his the team misguidedly told him to attack if he's feeling good and those 10 seconds in the wind, forging 15 meters ahead of the group, managed to deplete almost all of his energy so it was then only natural that a very strong Nibali would be unable to keep pace with a group exceeding 15 riders.

A sound assessment.

 

[Kwibus]

Re:

Im not proclaiming to be a mind reader, it's just my take on Dumoulin. I could definitely understand it last year and I can still understand it this year considering it helps taking the pressure of him. From what I've heard and from my experiences, the Dutch are very passionated about their athletes so its only clever to play himself a bit down. The hype train can go wild and if Im not wrong, it probably already has, even if Dumoulin time and time again attempts to play himself down.

I might be wrong, you may be right. Maybe the answer lies in between as it often does!

I think he goes for the GC, but he simply didn't prepare for it.(So he also doesn't think he can actually win.) His focus on the TT's this year and most of all the Olympics. He's been 100% clear about that since last year when he constantly got the question wether went for the GC in the TdF now that he's the big GC prospect.
Every time he answered that the Olympics is his biggest dream as he doesn't have a cycling background the Olympics were always a main event for him and it also only comes once every 4 years, while the GT's are every year.
So whatever happens my focus is on the TT everything that is extra is a bonus. When I'm riding in pink I will defend it, wether I'll succeed I don't know.

Maybe if you are from the Netherlands and you've seen and heard him talk you'd probably believe me.

 

[Kwibus]

Ligthart also deserves thumbs up for his performance today btw. Without him Wellens would've never won.

 

[Valv.Piti]

Okay, I get that.

I have only seen danish interviews. But I think you can understand why its hard to believe in him, no?