2016 Liège Bastogne Liège, April 24th, WT 253 km

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Re: Re:

BigMac said:
HelloDolly said:
Some people on here are the biggest moaners in the universe

Riders should have done this or that ....the conditions, the length of the race and strength of teams make long range attacks suicidal

But Betencur did attack alot
That's a bit of a strawman Dolly. I see more people criticizing organizers, the current layout from team size to route than having a go at riders.
Stop blaming others for your opinion - Live and die by your opinion - It's the riders who make the race.
 
Oct 23, 2011
3,846
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Re: Re:

yaco said:
You must have been watching a different race - There was a selection of four at the finish.
You must have been reading a different post from the one you cited, because it complained about a large bunch arriving at 3km before the finish, not about a large bunch at the finish.
 
Re: Re:

Gigs_98 said:
yaco said:
A funny thread - The new cobbled climb at the end made for a small selection, which is what many have requested. Yet some still complain about the race - I reckon the riders did an outstanding job in debilitating conditions which were near freezing and included snow falls.

It was OGE who broke up the peleton on the climb, contrary to endless posts about their passive racing. Gotta think that cobbled climb would suit Sagan.

Will be interesting to see if Albasini sneaks a stage in Romandie which is one of his season's goals.
This sentence perfectly presents the problem. If LBL would be as most fans want it nobody would even get the idea of mentioning Sagan as a possible winner.
I continually read the climbs should be earlier in the race - Sagan is talented and strong enough to get up the LBL climbs - So this wouldn't solve the issue for Sagan. Sagan is a better climber than Gerrans who has got up the LBL climbs in the past - Continue shifting your arguments when you have been rebutted.
 
Re: Re:

Maaaaaaaarten said:
yaco said:
A funny thread - The new cobbled climb at the end made for a small selection, which is what many have requested. Yet some still complain about the race - I reckon the riders did an outstanding job in debilitating conditions which were near freezing and included snow falls.

It was OGE who broke up the peleton on the climb, contrary to endless posts about their passive racing. Gotta think that cobbled climb would suit Sagan.

Will be interesting to see if Albasini sneaks a stage in Romandie which is one of his season's goals.
If you don't understand why people complain in this thread despite the final climb causing more selection, you need to improve your comprehensive reading ability.
You like many fail to understand the principle - It's riders who make the race - We had a selection of 4 riders and you are still whinging. Many don't know what they want with parcours.

How dare I congratulate riders for making a good race in the worst weather conditions since 1980.
 
Re: Re:

yaco said:
BigMac said:
HelloDolly said:
Some people on here are the biggest moaners in the universe

Riders should have done this or that ....the conditions, the length of the race and strength of teams make long range attacks suicidal

But Betencur did attack alot
That's a bit of a strawman Dolly. I see more people criticizing organizers, the current layout from team size to route than having a go at riders.
Stop blaming others for your opinion - Live and die by your opinion - It's the riders who make the race.
How's that working so far? Yeah.

Unless you mean ''the riders make the race 3km's for the finish and I'm completely ok with that''.

edit: oh, just read above. That's precisely what you mean.
 
Re: Re:

DNP-Old said:
PremierAndrew said:
DNP-Old said:
HelloDolly said:
Some people on here are the biggest moaners in the universe

Riders should have done this or that ....the conditions, the length of the race and strength of teams make long range attacks suicidal
Suicidal, so what? I'd rather try something and finish 48th, than to finish 9th or w/e doing nothing. But yay for my 4 World Tour points I guess.
No you wouldn't.
Yes, I would. That's why I said it.
No you wouldn't.

If you already had a good enough palmares where a top 10 wouldn't really add much, and so it's a win or nothing, then yes, a potentially suicidal attack is reasonable. But otherwise, you're either a) deluded to think that you'd be happy to launch a stupid attack instead of settling for a top 10 in one of the monuments, or b) stupid enough to actually do it
 
Feb 6, 2016
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'It's riders who make the race' is possibly the single most banal, unanalytical, meaningless pat aphorism in all of cycling. The course makes the race and determines the decisions that riders make.
 
Re: Re:

yaco said:
Gigs_98 said:
yaco said:
A funny thread - The new cobbled climb at the end made for a small selection, which is what many have requested. Yet some still complain about the race - I reckon the riders did an outstanding job in debilitating conditions which were near freezing and included snow falls.

It was OGE who broke up the peleton on the climb, contrary to endless posts about their passive racing. Gotta think that cobbled climb would suit Sagan.

Will be interesting to see if Albasini sneaks a stage in Romandie which is one of his season's goals.
This sentence perfectly presents the problem. If LBL would be as most fans want it nobody would even get the idea of mentioning Sagan as a possible winner.
I continually read the climbs should be earlier in the race - Sagan is talented and strong enough to get up the LBL climbs - So this wouldn't solve the issue for Sagan. Sagan is a better climber than Gerrans who has got up the LBL climbs in the past - Continue shifting your arguments when you have been rebutted.
Yes because everyone was sooooooo happy about Gerrans winning the race. Don't forget that the 2014 edition (which Gerrans won) is as disliked as this one, so you can't say the race has always been like it was this year because it was so in 2014. The problem is that generally in the last years there never was a real selection before the final climb. In the LBL I want to see there just are no sprinters left in the finale. The race would be won by hilly classics specialists or climbers. Sagan has 3 other monuments he can win and this just shouldnt be another one.
 
Re:

hrotha said:
Why would it be a stupid attack, PremierAndrew?

I mean, of course your position is going to sound reasonable when you frame it as "stupid suicide attacks" vs "getting a good result".
I was replying to the quote "suicidal - so what?"

And let's face it, if you're attacking 60k from the line with a full movistar train in action, it would indeed be suicidal.

However, if you change it to a 30k attack, that's no longer suicidal, and has a genuine chance of winning, then I'd consider it (although I personally wouldn't risk it unless I a) felt really good on the day, or b) had decent palmares already)
 
Re: Re:

PremierAndrew said:
hrotha said:
Why would it be a stupid attack, PremierAndrew?

I mean, of course your position is going to sound reasonable when you frame it as "stupid suicide attacks" vs "getting a good result".
I was replying to the quote "suicidal - so what?"

And let's face it, if you're attacking 60k from the line with a full movistar train in action, it would indeed be suicidal.

However, if you change it to a 30k attack, that's no longer suicidal, and has a genuine chance of winning, then I'd consider it (although I personally wouldn't risk it unless I a) felt really good on the day, or b) had decent palmares already)
I think the bigger problem is that the teams don't work together as they should. Neither Nibali nor Rosa nor any other Astana rider had a real chance in this finale so they simply should have let one of them on an attack on Redoute. That attack will maybe be sucidal but if most teams do so the break might even have a chance and they would make Movistar work harder so they are vulnerable in the finale.
 
Re: Re:

Maaaaaaaarten said:
yaco said:
You must have been watching a different race - There was a selection of four at the finish.
You must have been reading a different post from the one you cited, because it complained about a large bunch arriving at 3km before the finish, not about a large bunch at the finish.
There were four riders at the finish - Who cares how many riders are left with 3km to go.
 
Re: Re:

yaco said:
Maaaaaaaarten said:
yaco said:
You must have been watching a different race - There was a selection of four at the finish.
You must have been reading a different post from the one you cited, because it complained about a large bunch arriving at 3km before the finish, not about a large bunch at the finish.
There were four riders at the finish - Who cares how many riders are left with 3km to go.
You are being sarcastic, right?
 
Re: Re:

BigMac said:
yaco said:
BigMac said:
HelloDolly said:
Some people on here are the biggest moaners in the universe

Riders should have done this or that ....the conditions, the length of the race and strength of teams make long range attacks suicidal

But Betencur did attack alot
That's a bit of a strawman Dolly. I see more people criticizing organizers, the current layout from team size to route than having a go at riders.
What a shocking theory that riders make a race ! - Even read Nibali's interview on this website prior to the LBL - Particularly note Nibali's comments in the last paragraph - Rider's and teams decide how they race - We cn accept it or choose another sport - Constant whinging in this forum won't change a thing.

Stop blaming others for your opinion - Live and die by your opinion - It's the riders who make the race.
How's that working so far? Yeah.

Unless you mean ''the riders make the race 3km's for the finish and I'm completely ok with that''.

edit: oh, just read above. That's precisely what you mean.
 
Re:

Cannibal72 said:
'It's riders who make the race' is possibly the single most banal, unanalytical, meaningless pat aphorism in all of cycling. The course makes the race and determines the decisions that riders make.
Well you better give this advice to Nibali - Ask Nibs to retract his statement that riders determine how a race is ridden in the news section of this forum - Reckon, I'd rather trust the opinion of a professional cyclist than a forum contributor.
 
Jun 30, 2014
7,060
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Re: Re:

phanatic said:
Libertine Seguros said:
the asian said:
A Sky Duchie wins a monument :D

Feel a bit sorry for Albasini though. Rode super on the cobbled climb.
Whenever you feel sorry for Albasini, remember he's the guy that called Kévin Reza a "dirty n****r".
How can you feel bad for a guy like that?
Exactly, I was really happy about the fact that Albasini got beaten.
 
Re: Re:

yaco said:
Cannibal72 said:
'It's riders who make the race' is possibly the single most banal, unanalytical, meaningless pat aphorism in all of cycling. The course makes the race and determines the decisions that riders make.
Well you better give this advice to Nibali - Ask Nibs to retract his statement that riders determine how a race is ridden in the news section of this forum - Reckon, I'd rather trust the opinion of a professional cyclist than a forum contributor.
Absolutely right
Now I'm looking forward to Valverde winning the WC this year after he couldn't get a 4th LBL. :rolleyes:
 
Re: Re:

Gigs_98 said:
yaco said:
Gigs_98 said:
yaco said:
A funny thread - The new cobbled climb at the end made for a small selection, which is what many have requested. Yet some still complain about the race - I reckon the riders did an outstanding job in debilitating conditions which were near freezing and included snow falls.

It was OGE who broke up the peleton on the climb, contrary to endless posts about their passive racing. Gotta think that cobbled climb would suit Sagan.

Will be interesting to see if Albasini sneaks a stage in Romandie which is one of his season's goals.
This sentence perfectly presents the problem. If LBL would be as most fans want it nobody would even get the idea of mentioning Sagan as a possible winner.
I continually read the climbs should be earlier in the race - Sagan is talented and strong enough to get up the LBL climbs - So this wouldn't solve the issue for Sagan. Sagan is a better climber than Gerrans who has got up the LBL climbs in the past - Continue shifting your arguments when you have been rebutted.
Yes because everyone was sooooooo happy about Gerrans winning the race. Don't forget that the 2014 edition (which Gerrans won) is as disliked as this one, so you can't say the race has always been like it was this year because it was so in 2014. The problem is that generally in the last years there never was a real selection before the final climb. In the LBL I want to see there just are no sprinters left in the finale. The race would be won by hilly classics specialists or climbers. Sagan has 3 other monuments he can win and this just shouldnt be another one.
So the parcours is rubbish because you don't like Gerrans or some other random winner - What a way to mount to mount an argument - The only reason Gerrans won was because of the brilliant riding of Weening who got Gerrans back in the peleton after he struggled up the last climb and Martin fell off his bike with 200 metres to - You ask no sprinters at the end _ Name me a sprinter who has won the LBL ? None of the final 4 today are sprinters - People asked for a smaller selection at the end - We had 4 riders and people still complain - Why shouldn't Sagan ride or be competitive in the LBL - He is hardly a sprinter !
 
Re: Re:

Gigs_98 said:
PremierAndrew said:
hrotha said:
Why would it be a stupid attack, PremierAndrew?

I mean, of course your position is going to sound reasonable when you frame it as "stupid suicide attacks" vs "getting a good result".
I was replying to the quote "suicidal - so what?"

And let's face it, if you're attacking 60k from the line with a full movistar train in action, it would indeed be suicidal.

However, if you change it to a 30k attack, that's no longer suicidal, and has a genuine chance of winning, then I'd consider it (although I personally wouldn't risk it unless I a) felt really good on the day, or b) had decent palmares already)
I think the bigger problem is that the teams don't work together as they should. Neither Nibali nor Rosa nor any other Astana rider had a real chance in this finale so they simply should have let one of them on an attack on Redoute. That attack will maybe be sucidal but if most teams do so the break might even have a chance and they would make Movistar work harder so they are vulnerable in the finale.
You are failing to understand that the last cobbled climb completely changed the complexion of the race - I had no idea who would handle the cobbles, though I thought the decisive move would be made on the cobbles.
 
Oct 23, 2011
3,846
2
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Re: Re:

yaco said:
There were four riders at the finish - Who cares how many riders are left with 3km to go.
?????

:confused:

This is why I said you need to work on your comprehensive reading skills. You've been arguing with people who think that it is problematic that the selection only happens in the last few km, because they like to see action for more than a few minutes. That's the entire point. You're welcome to disagree of course, but then you need to attack the point that you disagree with, not just say 'who cares?' Honestly, either you're trolling or you've failed to grasp the point of this entire discussion.

If you continue to fail employing basic comprehensive reading skills I will stop replying to you and assume you're either trolling or simply refuse to try and understand the people you are arguing with; in either case further discussion would be quite fruitless.
 
Re: Re:

yaco said:
Gigs_98 said:
yaco said:
Gigs_98 said:
yaco said:
A funny thread - The new cobbled climb at the end made for a small selection, which is what many have requested. Yet some still complain about the race - I reckon the riders did an outstanding job in debilitating conditions which were near freezing and included snow falls.

It was OGE who broke up the peleton on the climb, contrary to endless posts about their passive racing. Gotta think that cobbled climb would suit Sagan.

Will be interesting to see if Albasini sneaks a stage in Romandie which is one of his season's goals.
This sentence perfectly presents the problem. If LBL would be as most fans want it nobody would even get the idea of mentioning Sagan as a possible winner.
I continually read the climbs should be earlier in the race - Sagan is talented and strong enough to get up the LBL climbs - So this wouldn't solve the issue for Sagan. Sagan is a better climber than Gerrans who has got up the LBL climbs in the past - Continue shifting your arguments when you have been rebutted.
Yes because everyone was sooooooo happy about Gerrans winning the race. Don't forget that the 2014 edition (which Gerrans won) is as disliked as this one, so you can't say the race has always been like it was this year because it was so in 2014. The problem is that generally in the last years there never was a real selection before the final climb. In the LBL I want to see there just are no sprinters left in the finale. The race would be won by hilly classics specialists or climbers. Sagan has 3 other monuments he can win and this just shouldnt be another one.
So the parcours is rubbish because you don't like Gerrans or some other random winner - What a way to mount to mount an argument - The only reason Gerrans won was because of the brilliant riding of Weening who got Gerrans back in the peleton after he struggled up the last climb and Martin fell off his bike with 200 metres to - You ask no sprinters at the end _ Name me a sprinter who has won the LBL ? None of the final 4 today are sprinters - People asked for a smaller selection at the end - We had 4 riders and people still complain - Why shouldn't Sagan ride or be competitive in the LBL - He is hardly a sprinter !
1.) The problem isnt that I dislike Gerrans (I didnt even dislike him back then, I just found the race horrible) but that he is a rider who only has a chance in such a race if its raced easily. This used to be a race won by climbers not by riders like Gerrans who is almost a sprinter.

2.) Name one sprinter who won it? Gerrans. Again no pure sprinter but I wouldnt really call him a climber or puncheur. And of course Sagan is a sprinter. Look at his results in bunch sprints in the last years. Only because a rider is also decent on hilly terrain it doesnt mean he isnt a sprinter anymore. The thing is that he is a decent climber and not a great one and if LBL would be raced as hard as it could be he just wouldnt have a chance.

3.) People didnt ask for a smaller selection, they asked for an exciting race. The group which finished together in PR was bigger and nobody on earth would say this was a better race.
 
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