2016 TdF, Stage 16: Moirans-en-Montagne → Bern (209km)

[maltiv]

Re:

LOL Kristoff celebrating his victory and then you get the finishphoto...

what a joke

He was like half a meter ahead of Sagan with 1 meter to go to the line, and was a solid meter in front of him 1 meter after the iine. So not that strange he thought he had won. But he completely misstimed the bike throw.

 

[Cannibal72]

Re:

Sagan will go down as the GOAT when all is said and done. Scary to think this guy is only 26

Sagan palmares aged 26:
Tour of Flanders
World Championships
Gent-Wevelgem x2
E3 Harelbeke
Brabantse Pijl
GP de Montreal
Tour of Sardinia
Tour of Poland
Tour of California
Tour de France: 7 stages
Tour de France: 5 points classifications
Vuelta a Espana: 4 stages

Merckx palmares aged 26:
Milan-San Remo x4
Tour of Flanders
Paris-Roubaix x2
Liege-Bastogne-Liege x2
Giro di Lombardia
World Championships
Paris-Nice x2
Tour de France: 18 stages
Tour de France: 2 points classifications
Tour de France: 2 mountains classifications
Tour de France: 3 general classifications
Giro d'Italia: 10 individual stages
Giro d'Italia: 1 points classification
Giro d'Italia: 1 mountains classification
Giro d'Italia: 2 general classifications

Hinault palmares aged 26:
Liege-Bastogne-Liege x2
Giro di Lombardia
World Championships
Fleche Wallonne
Gent-Wevelgem
Tour de France: 2 general classifications
TdF: 1 points classification
Giro: 1 GC
Vuelta: 1 GC

Not even close.

 

[SeriousSam]

Re: Re:

Sagan will go down as the GOAT when all is said and done. Scary to think this guy is only 26

Sagan palmares aged 26:
Tour of Flanders
World Championships
Gent-Wevelgem x2
E3 Harelbeke
Brabantse Pijl
GP de Montreal
Tour of Sardinia
Tour of Poland
Tour of California
Tour de France: 7 stages
Tour de France: 5 points classifications
Vuelta a Espana: 4 stages

Merckx palmares aged 26:
Milan-San Remo x4
Tour of Flanders
Paris-Roubaix x2
Liege-Bastogne-Liege x2
Giro di Lombardia
World Championships
Paris-Nice x2
Tour de France: 18 stages
Tour de France: 2 points classifications
Tour de France: 2 mountains classifications
Tour de France: 3 general classifications
Giro d'Italia: 10 individual stages
Giro d'Italia: 1 points classification
Giro d'Italia: 1 mountains classification
Giro d'Italia: 2 general classifications

Hinault palmares aged 26:
Liege-Bastogne-Liege x2
Giro di Lombardia
World Championships
Fleche Wallonne
Gent-Wevelgem
Tour de France: 2 general classifications
TdF: 1 points classification
Giro: 1 GC
Vuelta: 1 GC

Not even close.

You forgot to adjust for era

 

[Cannibal72]

Re: Re:

Sagan will go down as the GOAT when all is said and done. Scary to think this guy is only 26

Sagan palmares aged 26:
Tour of Flanders
World Championships
Gent-Wevelgem x2
E3 Harelbeke
Brabantse Pijl
GP de Montreal
Tour of Sardinia
Tour of Poland
Tour of California
Tour de France: 7 stages
Tour de France: 5 points classifications
Vuelta a Espana: 4 stages

Merckx palmares aged 26:
Milan-San Remo x4
Tour of Flanders
Paris-Roubaix x2
Liege-Bastogne-Liege x2
Giro di Lombardia
World Championships
Paris-Nice x2
Tour de France: 18 stages
Tour de France: 2 points classifications
Tour de France: 2 mountains classifications
Tour de France: 3 general classifications
Giro d'Italia: 10 individual stages
Giro d'Italia: 1 points classification
Giro d'Italia: 1 mountains classification
Giro d'Italia: 2 general classifications

Hinault palmares aged 26:
Liege-Bastogne-Liege x2
Giro di Lombardia
World Championships
Fleche Wallonne
Gent-Wevelgem
Tour de France: 2 general classifications
TdF: 1 points classification
Giro: 1 GC
Vuelta: 1 GC

Not even close.

You forgot to adjust for era

You're right. Merckx and Hinault's wins came against harder competition.

 

[Vasilis]

Why did the first 58 riders all get the same time? About half of them actually lost time, I think Samuel Dumoulin and Barguil just held on, but the group with Greipel definitely was behind a gap.
Edit: ProCyclingStats is surprised too.

 

[movingtarget]

Re: Re:

Sagan will go down as the GOAT when all is said and done. Scary to think this guy is only 26

Sagan palmares aged 26:
Tour of Flanders
World Championships
Gent-Wevelgem x2
E3 Harelbeke
Brabantse Pijl
GP de Montreal
Tour of Sardinia
Tour of Poland
Tour of California
Tour de France: 7 stages
Tour de France: 5 points classifications
Vuelta a Espana: 4 stages

Merckx palmares aged 26:
Milan-San Remo x4
Tour of Flanders
Paris-Roubaix x2
Liege-Bastogne-Liege x2
Giro di Lombardia
World Championships
Paris-Nice x2
Tour de France: 18 stages
Tour de France: 2 points classifications
Tour de France: 2 mountains classifications
Tour de France: 3 general classifications
Giro d'Italia: 10 individual stages
Giro d'Italia: 1 points classification
Giro d'Italia: 1 mountains classification
Giro d'Italia: 2 general classifications

Hinault palmares aged 26:
Liege-Bastogne-Liege x2
Giro di Lombardia
World Championships
Fleche Wallonne
Gent-Wevelgem
Tour de France: 2 general classifications
TdF: 1 points classification
Giro: 1 GC
Vuelta: 1 GC

Not even close.

The Cannibal was also winning Six Day Races, breaking the World Hour Record and winning grand tours. Sagan is a prodigy but will never beat Merckx's record. Hinault and Merckx were special riders. They could win Paris Roubaix or a GT. Different times yes but Merckx was a freak.

 

[Flamin]

Re: Re:

Sagan will go down as the GOAT when all is said and done. Scary to think this guy is only 26

Sagan palmares aged 26:
Tour of Flanders
World Championships
Gent-Wevelgem x2
E3 Harelbeke
Brabantse Pijl
GP de Montreal
Tour of Sardinia
Tour of Poland
Tour of California
Tour de France: 7 stages
Tour de France: 5 points classifications
Vuelta a Espana: 4 stages

Merckx palmares aged 26:
Milan-San Remo x4
Tour of Flanders
Paris-Roubaix x2
Liege-Bastogne-Liege x2
Giro di Lombardia
World Championships
Paris-Nice x2
Tour de France: 18 stages
Tour de France: 2 points classifications
Tour de France: 2 mountains classifications
Tour de France: 3 general classifications
Giro d'Italia: 10 individual stages
Giro d'Italia: 1 points classification
Giro d'Italia: 1 mountains classification
Giro d'Italia: 2 general classifications

Hinault palmares aged 26:
Liege-Bastogne-Liege x2
Giro di Lombardia
World Championships
Fleche Wallonne
Gent-Wevelgem
Tour de France: 2 general classifications
TdF: 1 points classification
Giro: 1 GC
Vuelta: 1 GC

Not even close.

You forgot to adjust for era

You're right. Merckx and Hinault's wins came against harder competition.

So funny that people actually believe this.

 

[yaco]

Re:

Why did the first 58 riders all get the same time? About half of them actually lost time, I think Samuel Dumoulin and Barguil just held on, but the group with Greipel definitely was behind a gap.
Edit: ProCyclingStats is surprised too.

Agree - There were round 35 riders in the lead group - Yet 59 riders got the same time.

 

[SKSemtex]

Re:

that sagan fangirl - much better than colombian Nairo funguys yesterday in Culoz (half-naked guy in his fifties trumpetting on vuvuzela for an hour)

More than fangirl

 

[StryderHells]

Re: Re:

Why did the first 58 riders all get the same time? About half of them actually lost time, I think Samuel Dumoulin and Barguil just held on, but the group with Greipel definitely was behind a gap.
Edit: ProCyclingStats is surprised too.

Agree - There were round 35 riders in the lead group - Yet 59 riders got the same time.

There had to have been a crash, I spotted a Direct Energy riders with ripped up clothing

 

[fantomas]

181. FRA LAPORTE Christophe 196 COFIDIS, SOLUTIONS CREDITS 04h 38' 16'' + 12' 14''
182. GER MARTIN Tony 185 ETIXX-QUICK STEP 04h 38' 22'' + 12' 20''
183. FRA ALAPHILIPPE Julian 182 ETIXX-QUICK STEP 04h 38' 22'' + 12' 20''

BFF.

 

[DanielSong39]

Re:

Sagan will go down as the GOAT when all is said and done. Scary to think this guy is only 26

His accomplishments look pretty close to Mark Cavendish at age 26:

Mark Cavendish:
Milan San-Remo (2009)
World Road Race (2011)
Vuelta Points Classification (2010)
Tour Points Classification (2011)
Giro: 7 stage victories
Tour: 20 stage victories
Vuelta: 3 stage victories

Then again that's pretty good company.

 

[Cannibal72]

Re: Re:

Sagan will go down as the GOAT when all is said and done. Scary to think this guy is only 26

Sagan palmares aged 26:
Tour of Flanders
World Championships
Gent-Wevelgem x2
E3 Harelbeke
Brabantse Pijl
GP de Montreal
Tour of Sardinia
Tour of Poland
Tour of California
Tour de France: 7 stages
Tour de France: 5 points classifications
Vuelta a Espana: 4 stages

Merckx palmares aged 26:
Milan-San Remo x4
Tour of Flanders
Paris-Roubaix x2
Liege-Bastogne-Liege x2
Giro di Lombardia
World Championships
Paris-Nice x2
Tour de France: 18 stages
Tour de France: 2 points classifications
Tour de France: 2 mountains classifications
Tour de France: 3 general classifications
Giro d'Italia: 10 individual stages
Giro d'Italia: 1 points classification
Giro d'Italia: 1 mountains classification
Giro d'Italia: 2 general classifications

Hinault palmares aged 26:
Liege-Bastogne-Liege x2
Giro di Lombardia
World Championships
Fleche Wallonne
Gent-Wevelgem
Tour de France: 2 general classifications
TdF: 1 points classification
Giro: 1 GC
Vuelta: 1 GC

Not even close.

You forgot to adjust for era

You're right. Merckx and Hinault's wins came against harder competition.

So funny that people actually believe this.

You're right, De Vlaeminck, Ocana, Fuente, Gimondi, Zoetemelk, and Moser were practically amateurs compared to Kristoff and the rest.

 

[DanielSong39]

Why did the puncheurs do so poorly (except for Sagan)? It looked like a stage where you can attack with 3 km to go and make it stick.

 

[Arredondo]

Sagan GOAT? He will not even be close

Merckx, Hinault, Kelly, Anquetil, Van Looy are a level above him.

For sure we talk about different times, but Sagan will never win a GT. And i think it will be really difficult for him to win a race like Lombardia. Especially on last years course.

 

[SKSemtex]

Sagan is great but still far from those two. Shell he win MRS and PR this year it could be probably different story. He was strong enough this year to do it.

 

[El Pistolero]

Re: Re:

Sagan will go down as the GOAT when all is said and done. Scary to think this guy is only 26

His accomplishments look pretty close to Mark Cavendish at age 26:

Mark Cavendish:
Milan San-Remo (2009)
World Road Race (2011)
Vuelta Points Classification (2010)
Tour Points Classification (2011)
Giro: 7 stage victories
Tour: 20 stage victories
Vuelta: 3 stage victories

Then again that's pretty good company.

Not close at all. Sagan's 7 Tour stage wins are more impressive than Cav's 20. Ronde is better than Milan-San Remo and hilly worlds is better than flat worlds.

 

[winkybiker]

Re:

Sagan GOAT? He will not even be close

Merckx, Hinault, Kelly, Anquetil, Van Looy are a level above him.

For sure we talk about different times, but Sagan will never win a GT. And i think it will be really difficult for him to win a race like Lombardia. Especially on last years course.

I think it is very hard to compare. He is a generalist in an era of extreme specialisation. In the golden days of Merckx et. al. everybody kind of did everything. Regardless of GOAT or not (and that will never be definitively answered) , he's saving pro cycling from itself right now.

 

[spalco]

What was the point of that ridiculous Etix TTT? Lefevre punishing his riders?

 

[El Pistolero]

Re:

Sagan GOAT? He will not even be close

Merckx, Hinault, Kelly, Anquetil, Van Looy are a level above him.

For sure we talk about different times, but Sagan will never win a GT. And i think it will be really difficult for him to win a race like Lombardia. Especially on last years course.

Sagan is probaby much more talented than all those you mentioned. You can't compare different era's. What Sagan is doing in the modern era is unheard of, which makes a comparison with Merckx not absurd. Anquetil wouldn't make it inside the time limit in a modern Tour.

 

[trucido]

Re: Re:

Sagan will go down as the GOAT when all is said and done. Scary to think this guy is only 26

His accomplishments look pretty close to Mark Cavendish at age 26:

Mark Cavendish:
Milan San-Remo (2009)
World Road Race (2011)
Vuelta Points Classification (2010)
Tour Points Classification (2011)
Giro: 7 stage victories
Tour: 20 stage victories
Vuelta: 3 stage victories

Then again that's pretty good company.

Not close at all. Sagan's 7 Tour stage wins are more impressive than Cav's 20. Ronde is better than Milan-San Remo and hilly worlds is better than flat worlds.

Couple of G-Ws, E3, Montreal.

But really you just have to watch the manner in which both have won to see how wide the gap is between the two.

 

[Kokoso]

Jupiiii. Sagan has learnt how to throw the bike.

He is doing that fine; just you can't win every time by throwing bike. Ask Kristoff today

 

[spalco]

Re: Re:

Sagan is probaby much more talented than all those you mentioned. You can't compare different era's. What Sagan is doing in the modern era is unheard of, which makes a comparison with Merckx not absurd. Anquetil wouldn't make it inside the time limit in a modern Tour.

Who knows? Probably every previous Tour winner, even from the 20s, was an exceptional endurance sport talent. With modern training and "medicine" I wouldn't put it past any of them to challenge for the GC today.

 

[saganftw]

you are comparing NHL in 80s to NHL of today where you dont even need 100 points to win Art Ross Trophy

stop doing it,its a debate that has no answer

 

[Slaav]

Re:

you are comparing NHL in 80s to NHL of today where you dont even need 100 points to win Art Ross Trophy

stop doing it,its a debate that has no answer

A debate with plenty of answers and opinions - just no definitive answers