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2016 Vuelta a España, Stage 20: Benidorm → Alto de Aitana

Page 26 - Get up to date with the latest news, scores & standings from the Cycling News Community.
Re:

hfer07 said:
Nairo Quintana - deserving Champion of La Vuelta despite all the haters!!!

happy for quintana - great climber.

but it does not change the fact that a recalibration in what a GT is supposed to crown needs to happen. In a historically balanced GT, quintana would have been sprinting at the top of mountains for the spotted jersey and finishing maybe top five 5-10 mins down on a more all-round champion.

if you have been wondering why we have all these anorexic riders in the peloton - look no further than the fact that GTs have gotten so off-balance that there is almost no benefit to being strong for 80-120KM of ITT.
 
Re: Re:

DFA123 said:
Brullnux said:
You say it was like an Europa league match but Chaves, who came 2nd at the Giro (3rd strongest of the race), came third here, in worse shape (like everyone in their second GT of the year after properly peaking for the first). So, the argument is in itself contradictory and based on zero actual evidence, rather just biased empiricism. The first week of the Giro wasn't even that bad, it was better than the first week of the Vuelta. The first week just had Ezaro and that stage Yates won. Camperona was awful as a first mountain stage. Roccaraso was better, despite the headwind. The stages into Praia a Mare and Arezzo were better. The ITT was a disappointment, and Sestola also wasn't great, but the stage into Asolo was great fun and the beautiful Friuli stage was raced poorly, but still produced more entertainment than most stages in the Vuelta. Then all the mountain stages from 14 onwards were fantastic (14,15,16,19,20). Pinerolo was bad, but still. The Vuelta had: Covadonga, Aubisque, Formigal and this I guess. The Giro was so much better. And actual medium mountain stages instead of muritos.
It isn't contradictory: viewtopic.php?p=2021455#p2021455

Both were exciting races with some great stages and GC battles. So, for me, the deciding factor is that one had a significantly higher quality field.

You say he would've been miles out of contention, but he wouldn't have been. He was a lot stronger than Chaves, I mean he took 2+ minutes out of him in the last two stages. Once he got over that slump (make of it what you will) Nibali was very strong again. Not 2014 strong but better than Chaves there. Kruijswijk was awesome too. Like properly awesome.
 
Re: Re:

Brullnux said:
DFA123 said:
Brullnux said:
You say it was like an Europa league match but Chaves, who came 2nd at the Giro (3rd strongest of the race), came third here, in worse shape (like everyone in their second GT of the year after properly peaking for the first). So, the argument is in itself contradictory and based on zero actual evidence, rather just biased empiricism. The first week of the Giro wasn't even that bad, it was better than the first week of the Vuelta. The first week just had Ezaro and that stage Yates won. Camperona was awful as a first mountain stage. Roccaraso was better, despite the headwind. The stages into Praia a Mare and Arezzo were better. The ITT was a disappointment, and Sestola also wasn't great, but the stage into Asolo was great fun and the beautiful Friuli stage was raced poorly, but still produced more entertainment than most stages in the Vuelta. Then all the mountain stages from 14 onwards were fantastic (14,15,16,19,20). Pinerolo was bad, but still. The Vuelta had: Covadonga, Aubisque, Formigal and this I guess. The Giro was so much better. And actual medium mountain stages instead of muritos.
It isn't contradictory: viewtopic.php?p=2021455#p2021455

Both were exciting races with some great stages and GC battles. So, for me, the deciding factor is that one had a significantly higher quality field.

You say he would've been miles out of contention, but he wouldn't have been. He was a lot stronger than Chaves, I mean he took 2+ minutes out of him in the last two stages. Once he got over that slump (make of it what you will) Nibali was very strong again. Not 2014 strong but better than Chaves there. Kruijswijk was awesome too. Like properly awesome.
Sure, I don't disagree that he was insanely strong in those last few days. But still, no way he would get anywhere close to Froome or Quintana in that situation if he was four minutes down. The GC battle was exciting, in part, because the challengers were all pretty weak and vulnerable at times. Admittedly that's entertaining, but the Vuelta also had that - just with the two best GT riders in the world going toe to toe.
 
Re: Re:

This Charming Man said:
hfer07 said:
Nairo Quintana - deserving Champion of La Vuelta despite all the haters!!!
Quintana won yes, is a great champion, yes, but....Froome is an animator, which, to attract fans, is better for cycling.
Froome didn't animate zilch today. When his initial attacks failed, he was content to let Movistar have it their way for the rest of the day even though he was never going to win the Vuelta like that.
 
I am not sure what he was supposed to do? Quintana was as strong as him and attentive enough, and Movistar was not going to let a group with Sky go where they weren't represented.

Quintana had 4 teammates with him when the selection was made. Froome was against an equally strong rider with a stronger team today.
 
Re:

Isaak-Gabriel said:
I would liked to see an attack from Quintana 2km to go, not a 300m sprint like that. Very sad end, as a Quintana fan.
If they had been riding for the win, he might've done it. As is, having dropped Froome no to MTFs and Formigal, he'd rather not risk being overconfident and ending the Vuelta on a Mano-A-Mano loss. There was also a bit of a headwind at the end there.

Nice if a little crazy ride by Latour, BTW.
 
Re: Re:

This Charming Man said:
hfer07 said:
Nairo Quintana - deserving Champion of La Vuelta despite all the haters!!!
Quintana won yes, is a great champion, yes, but....Froome is an animator, which, to attract fans, is better for cycling.
Froome's only an animator when he's behind. In each of the three Tours he's won, he's had a big show of strength at the end of the first week, and then after that hasn't animated anything. Quintana by contrast has produced long-range speculative attacks to try to prise that GT away from him, although the problem is that Quintana has developed something of a habit of staking everything on one or two stages for a big long distance raid, which leads to some fairly negative racing in the first half of these races. This isn't a knock on Froome - it's just that you have no reason to necessarily animate when you have a safe lead, and the fact that we have twice this season seen the big guns in the leader's jerseys attacking when it would otherwise be unexpected (Froome in the wind although I didn't watch that, it was still unexpected, and Quintana in the otherwise-benign Formigal stage) is more the product that they were not on their most ideal form and didn't feel their leads to be secure enough without those risks. Elsewise, for much of the Tour Froome had been able to use the same template of control that Sky have used to such great effect before. Again, no dig at him - it's purely sensible racing; when you're in the driving seat you don't take the unnecessary risks. But it's also why Froome is more interesting when he isn't at 100%, because when he's fallible he does have to take those risks. When he is, he can just PSM everybody. Contador has the race lead, Fuente Dé never happens. Froome cracks and loses ten minutes on the Aubisque, Formigal never happens.
 
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Re: Re:

Libertine Seguros said:
This Charming Man said:
hfer07 said:
Nairo Quintana - deserving Champion of La Vuelta despite all the haters!!!
Quintana won yes, is a great champion, yes, but....Froome is an animator, which, to attract fans, is better for cycling.
Froome's only an animator when he's behind. In each of the three Tours he's won, he's had a big show of strength at the end of the first week, and then after that hasn't animated anything. Quintana by contrast has produced long-range speculative attacks to try to prise that GT away from him, although the problem is that Quintana has developed something of a habit of staking everything on one or two stages for a big long distance raid, which leads to some fairly negative racing in the first half of these races. This isn't a knock on Froome - it's just that you have no reason to necessarily animate when you have a safe lead, and the fact that we have twice this season seen the big guns in the leader's jerseys attacking when it would otherwise be unexpected (Froome in the wind although I didn't watch that, it was still unexpected, and Quintana in the otherwise-benign Formigal stage) is more the product that they were not on their most ideal form and didn't feel their leads to be secure enough without those risks. Elsewise, for much of the Tour Froome had been able to use the same template of control that Sky have used to such great effect before. Again, no dig at him - it's purely sensible racing; when you're in the driving seat you don't take the unnecessary risks. But it's also why Froome is more interesting when he isn't at 100%, because when he's fallible he does have to take those risks. When he is, he can just PSM everybody. Contador has the race lead, Fuente Dé never happens. Froome cracks and loses ten minutes on the Aubisque, Formigal never happens.
I know your brain blocks all of Sagan's great performances, but c'mon... Don't be silly.
 
Re: Re:

LaFlorecita said:
Escarabajo said:
Jungle Cycle said:
TTT cost Contador the podium... Bravo Chaves+OBE. Well played.. Quintana too strong.. LatourxAtapuma was GREAT!!
Hey, he had the chance to defend it today, so there is nobody else to blame but himself.
Sure, but you can't deny he would have finished on the podium if his team hadn't completely bombed the TTT.

Well I can, because even slighthest change of proceeding would've changed the way the future would've formed and the Vuelta we saw would've been completely different. He could've even won! :p
 
Re: Re:

LaFlorecita said:
Escarabajo said:
Jungle Cycle said:
TTT cost Contador the podium... Bravo Chaves+OBE. Well played.. Quintana too strong.. LatourxAtapuma was GREAT!!
Hey, he had the chance to defend it today, so there is nobody else to blame but himself.
Sure, but you can't deny he would have finished on the podium if his team hadn't completely bombed the TTT.
If Tinkoff had brought a stronger team they would have done the TTT faster, yes. And if Orica had brought a stronger team they would have done the TTT faster.
 
Re: Re:

MacBAir said:
Libertine Seguros said:
This Charming Man said:
hfer07 said:
Nairo Quintana - deserving Champion of La Vuelta despite all the haters!!!
Quintana won yes, is a great champion, yes, but....Froome is an animator, which, to attract fans, is better for cycling.
Froome's only an animator when he's behind. In each of the three Tours he's won, he's had a big show of strength at the end of the first week, and then after that hasn't animated anything. Quintana by contrast has produced long-range speculative attacks to try to prise that GT away from him, although the problem is that Quintana has developed something of a habit of staking everything on one or two stages for a big long distance raid, which leads to some fairly negative racing in the first half of these races. This isn't a knock on Froome - it's just that you have no reason to necessarily animate when you have a safe lead, and the fact that we have twice this season seen the big guns in the leader's jerseys attacking when it would otherwise be unexpected (Froome in the wind although I didn't watch that, it was still unexpected, and Quintana in the otherwise-benign Formigal stage) is more the product that they were not on their most ideal form and didn't feel their leads to be secure enough without those risks. Elsewise, for much of the Tour Froome had been able to use the same template of control that Sky have used to such great effect before. Again, no dig at him - it's purely sensible racing; when you're in the driving seat you don't take the unnecessary risks. But it's also why Froome is more interesting when he isn't at 100%, because when he's fallible he does have to take those risks. When he is, he can just PSM everybody. Contador has the race lead, Fuente Dé never happens. Froome cracks and loses ten minutes on the Aubisque, Formigal never happens.
I know your brain blocks all of Sagan's great performances, but c'mon... Don't be silly.
Well, running upp Ventoux, that is pretty animating if you ask me.
 
Re:

jens_attacks said:
giro on a plate by a red flag, vuelta by a contador attack.
it will take some epic raids from nairo to win me.
Oh, that's just beyond ridiculous. He's featured in the only three 50km+ leader's jersey attacks the last four years. In the latest of those he was actually wearing said jersey during the attack. They've won him a Giro, a Vuelta, and the closest Tour second place in the last eight years. Dude went on a flat break during the Route the Sud, just because that's his style.

If you want a better grand tour raider you need to go back to the history books. No one better will likely come along in your lifetime. If you want someone with more explosive attacks, a dreamier smile, or a greater ability to spin a yarn, you're entitled to that. But he's not winning you over with his raiding, then that's clearly not what you're looking for.
 

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