2016 Worlds in October, Flat Course

[Ferminal]

Interesting Crit course, what about the RR?

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

Indeed, also sprinters should have their chance. Luckily, they are not building an artificial hill.

no they shouldn't have a change. sprinting isn't some sort of great specialty it never has been either. pure sprinters is only something of the past 15 years and it has no place in cycling at all nor in it's history. if you are a sprinter and you want to become wc? well you should be able to climb very well too. see freire.

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

Happy to have a sprint WC every few years but I also agree a pure climbers WC with a MTF every 5 years would be great too.

new cycling fans of the anglophone countries. mother of god facepalm here :L

 

[William H]

Having a worlds where the sprinters, even the Cav/Kittel/Greipel types, have a chance is good. Having one where a sprint is inevitable isn't.

 

[Pricey_sky]

new cycling fans of the anglophone countries. mother of god facepalm here :L

Im not an new cycling fan, so not for the first time you are wrong. Just giving an opinion and as there are many different styles of rider its only fair they should have the odd flat(ish) WC. You shouldn't have to turn yourself into something your not, Should a rider with the build like Greipel have to be forced to be a better climber to win a WC? Ok pure sprinters haven't been around since the start of the sport but like EVERY sport things change and it needs to adapt to ensure the future. Living in the past will only mean the sport will be consigned to the past too, like it not that's the way of the world. Of course though your opinion is the only one that matters because every British cycling fan has only had an interest in the last 2 years that's the facepalm right there!

 

[Libertine Seguros]

A guy Greipel's size can get over a few hills to compete for the win when it's not flat. He won't need the parcours to be this totally flat.

Here is de Panne, Gent-Wevelgem, a hilly finish in Algarve, and the Willunga stage Down Under...

 

[Pricey_sky]

A guy Greipel's size can get over a few hills to compete for the win when it's not flat. He won't need the parcours to be this totally flat.

Here is de Panne, Gent-Wevelgem, a hilly finish in Algarve, and the Willunga stage Down Under...

I agree and many sprinters can get over some short hills but would have no chance on parlours like last years WC. My point was that sprinters deserve their chance every few years too.

 

[myrideissteelerthanyours]

I agree and many sprinters can get over some short hills but would have no chance on parlours like last years WC. My point was that sprinters deserve their chance every few years too.

I dont know that they deserve more than they are currently getting. If we dont preserve events for allrounders and hardmen there wont be anything but uphill finishes, climbing oriented events, and pure sprint-a-thons left.

My question is will Germany get to send 6 riders again this year and is 6 enough? Or is it a given that Skyborg/20th century fox/england will help control the race with them?

 

[MatParker117]

I dont know that they deserve more than they are currently getting. If we dont preserve events for allrounders and hardmen there wont be anything but uphill finishes, climbing oriented events, and pure sprint-a-thons left.

My question is will Germany get to send 6 riders again this year and is 6 enough? Or is it a given that Skyborg/20th century fox/england will help control the race with them?

Britain will target this worlds with Cav as will Australia with Ewan, Goss, etc and probably France (Demare, Bouhanni), Italy (Viviani) & Slovakia (Sagan) as well.

 

[Pricey_sky]

I dont know that they deserve more than they are currently getting. If we dont preserve events for allrounders and hardmen there wont be anything but uphill finishes, climbing oriented events, and pure sprint-a-thons left.

My question is will Germany get to send 6 riders again this year and is 6 enough? Or is it a given that Skyborg/20th century fox/england will help control the race with them?

Well it's not like sprinters have had lots of chances but a sprinters WC every 5-7 years is ok IMO, although a few little hills along the way to put them under pressure would be better. There is no chance they would win last year or on this years parcours so I suppose the organisers are only being fair.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

I agree and many sprinters can get over some short hills but would have no chance on parlours like last years WC. My point was that sprinters deserve their chance every few years too.

But they get more chances than the pure climbers still. How many Worlds have we had that a guy like Pozzovivo or Antón could win?

As I said before, I think sprinters should have a chance to win the race, but they have to earn it; we're judging the best cyclist in the world, so all categories of cyclist should have their chance at any particular time to win it (save ITT specialists, since they obviously have their own Worlds). However there ought to be some level of versatility required. Geelong was for me an ideal sprinters' Worlds. The sprinters who have no versatility, like Napolitano, van Hummel, Quaranta, Guardini, Bos, Furlan usw., would not compete, but those who have versatility but are still undeniably sprinters, like Freire, Boonen, Haussler and Hushovd, could, if form was correct, as well as more all-round riders with strong sprints like EBH, Bettini, Sagan, Visconti etc.. For all the arguments about Mark Cavendish, the 2009 Mark Cavendish could have had a chance of making the group in Geelong.

But what made Geelong good was that though the obstacles were not big enough to prevent the sprint, there was enough of a platform for attacking for the other types of rider to feel like they had a chance if they played it right, which meant that you did get moves animating the race and so when the bunch caught the attack groups the sprinters had earnt the chance to become World Champion. That is something that København did not do. I think, contrary to many and what many might expect from me, that Mark Cavendish is a worthy World Champion; I do not think, however, that København was a worthy World Championships. The course did not allow for any type of rider outside of sprinters to truly feel like they had a chance, and as a result, top riders of other types either didn't bother turning up or turned up solely to domestique, to a far greater extent than happened at Geelong.

Geelong had two decent sized hills; you could have a circuit with those hills but very close to the start of the circuit leaving 15 or so km flat before the finish, or have just one of those two hills, to make it more sprinter-focused... but without selectivity and a platform for meaningful attacks to be launched (and let's face it, it's more likely the Worlds includes hills than a proper stretch of cobbles), then we're relying on the weather and/or mass crashes to create a good race for us... and let's face it, the former is unreliable as it relies on conditions on the day, and the latter is something I think we can all agree we'd prefer not to have as the decisive factor, especially in a World Championships.

 

[Netserk]

I'd much rather have a cobbles worlds than a sprinters worlds. Sprinters already had the chance in 2011, 2010, 2006, 2005 and 2002.

When was the last time the worlds had a cobbles sector in the circuit?

 

[MatParker117]

I'd much rather have a cobbles worlds than a sprinters worlds. Sprinters already had the chance in 2011, 2010, 2006, 2005 and 2002.

When was the last time the worlds had a cobbles sector in the circuit?

Richmond will have cobbles next year and as for sprinters Hamburg will apparently get a worlds in 2017 or 18 but that circuit will most likely include the Waseberg.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Hamburg with Waseberg... that could be a perfect example of how to do a sprinters' Worlds. When will we get a Worlds on Krylatskoye Ring

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

I'd much rather have a cobbles worlds than a sprinters worlds. Sprinters already had the chance in 2011, 2010, 2006, 2005 and 2002.

When was the last time the worlds had a cobbles sector in the circuit?

never? and thank god for that. cobbles are absolutely overrated. there already is a cobbles wc and it's called paris roubaix

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

there maye also come a wc in bogota colombia in 2019? be assured that will be hard. bogota alone is nearly 3000 metres altitude

 

[Pricey_sky]

But they get more chances than the pure climbers still. How many Worlds have we had that a guy like Pozzovivo or Antón could win?

As I said before, I think sprinters should have a chance to win the race, but they have to earn it; we're judging the best cyclist in the world, so all categories of cyclist should have their chance at any particular time to win it (save ITT specialists, since they obviously have their own Worlds). However there ought to be some level of versatility required. Geelong was for me an ideal sprinters' Worlds. The sprinters who have no versatility, like Napolitano, van Hummel, Quaranta, Guardini, Bos, Furlan usw., would not compete, but those who have versatility but are still undeniably sprinters, like Freire, Boonen, Haussler and Hushovd, could, if form was correct, as well as more all-round riders with strong sprints like EBH, Bettini, Sagan, Visconti etc.. For all the arguments about Mark Cavendish, the 2009 Mark Cavendish could have had a chance of making the group in Geelong.

But what made Geelong good was that though the obstacles were not big enough to prevent the sprint, there was enough of a platform for attacking for the other types of rider to feel like they had a chance if they played it right, which meant that you did get moves animating the race and so when the bunch caught the attack groups the sprinters had earnt the chance to become World Champion. That is something that København did not do. I think, contrary to many and what many might expect from me, that Mark Cavendish is a worthy World Champion; I do not think, however, that København was a worthy World Championships. The course did not allow for any type of rider outside of sprinters to truly feel like they had a chance, and as a result, top riders of other types either didn't bother turning up or turned up solely to domestique, to a far greater extent than happened at Geelong.

Geelong had two decent sized hills; you could have a circuit with those hills but very close to the start of the circuit leaving 15 or so km flat before the finish, or have just one of those two hills, to make it more sprinter-focused... but without selectivity and a platform for meaningful attacks to be launched (and let's face it, it's more likely the Worlds includes hills than a proper stretch of cobbles), then we're relying on the weather and/or mass crashes to create a good race for us... and let's face it, the former is unreliable as it relies on conditions on the day, and the latter is something I think we can all agree we'd prefer not to have as the decisive factor, especially in a World Championships.

I completely agree with you there Libertine, Geelong as far as a 'sprinters' world championship was very good indeed. I believe sprinters should have to work for their win and this is the reason why the likes of Greipel and Cav have made sure they have the power to get up little climbs whereas others couldn't, even Kittel has shown in Dubai last week he can hold on when there is some pace uphill.

I'd prefer a parcours that does promote attacks and gives other riders a chance not just a pan flat stage, however just like last year and this year sprinters have no chance of winning, so you can see why organisers have arranged one where sprinters have the big chance to be world champion.