2019 Giro d'Italia Stage 14: Saint Vincent-Courmayeur 131 km

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Singer01 said:
Moviefan1203 said:
My guess is Roglic will follow wheels again, and Nibali will need a box of tissues after crying to the Italian media.
He really is coming across as whiny isnt he.
Or playing mind games, trying to push Roglic to make a stupid mistake. Or trying to get the tifosi fired-up (dangerous thing). I like Vincenzo, but coming from the guy (along with Quintana) who was expecting Dumoulin to bridge the gap to Pinot/Pozzo, prompting Dumoulin to wish them out of the podium two years ago, it seems disingenuous.

Nibali is a fox, not a sportsman. He attacked when SK was feeding and won Il Giro, attacked Pinot who was feeding, opened a gap and won a GDL, like it or not, he'll use guerilla tactics all the way. Not pretty, but as he says, he has a nice collection of trophies to show for.

Another big battle tomorrow, and I'm curious to see who will pay for today's efforts. The war of attrition has begun. Polanc to remain in pink, Madouas another good finish (great ride for a first GT), if Roglic gets a "same time" as his foes, he'll be one step closer.
 
Be some tired bodies from yesterday which might stop the stronger teams being too aggressive although Movistar and Astana have to try. With so much dodgy descending on offer I hope Zakarin is paying attention. But generally on the shorter mountain stages there is plenty of action. A mechanical on this stage could be disastrous for the GC riders.I expect Roglic and Nibali will be more of the same. Both are cautious about the third week. Michelton have to target the breaks from now on.
 
Landa has said he's going to keep racing the same way as long as his legs allow him to do so. How long, who knows, but he does have 1 GT podium and another top 5, so it's possible he can keep racing that way. It's also possible his legs will eventually say no more.
 
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Koronin said:
Landa has said he's going to keep racing the same way as long as his legs allow him to do so. How long, who knows, but he does have 1 GT podium and another top 5, so it's possible he can keep racing that way. It's also possible his legs will eventually say no more.
One could say that Landa was the best at the TdF two years ago. Nibali/Roglic's gamble today could blow up to their face. Landa is a threat, he's for real, and I don't see him fading.
 
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Tonton said:
Koronin said:
Landa has said he's going to keep racing the same way as long as his legs allow him to do so. How long, who knows, but he does have 1 GT podium and another top 5, so it's possible he can keep racing that way. It's also possible his legs will eventually say no more.
One could say that Landa was the best at the TdF two years ago. Nibali/Roglic's gamble today could blow up to their face. Landa is a threat, he's for real, and I don't see him fading.
Agreed. I don't think he'll fade either. He looks like he's on form. His biggest problem is he's still not very good at time trials. Landa got a good bit of time back on everyone except Zakarin and his teammate, Carapaz. Actually that puts Movistar is good shape with 2 of their riders at least somewhat in contention to where others have to pay attention to both of them.
 
Roglic can look at the situation in two ways:

1. It's very complicated. There are still seven to ten guys who can win the Giro. He doesn't have the team to respond to every attack.
2. It's very simple. If he always stays with Nibali he will win the Giro.

Yesterday he gambled and took the second point of view. Maybe that was too passive. It brought other riders back into contention, especially the duo from Movistar. Landa is peaking in the second half of the Giro and people are still underestimating Carapaz. It was a fascinating bit of psychological warfare between Roglic and Nibali, but neither of them can be very happy with the result. On the other hand it could mean that these two will have more energy left for today and tomorrow. The San Carlo will judge, not to mention the dangerous descent afterwards.
 
Very difficult to know what will happen in this stage, as the two riders who might realistically gain the most here, might not be so keen to. Roglic and Nibali didn't seem to go into the red zone like so many of their rivals yesterday, and that is scary for those outsiders with this profile. I was really impressed with Landa (and Carapaz to a lesser extent), and I think that an in-form Landa is good for the race, but I don't know how he will back up on this stage after yesterday's effort. It's the second best stage for him (after stage 16), but maybe he won't have the legs after attacking from 15 kms out. If he'd only attacked from 6 kms out than I am quite sure that he wouldn't have gained as much time, but we'll need to do the additions and subtractions from stages 13 and 14 after tonight and see who profited.

Given that San Carlo is too hard to really be 'raced', would it make sense for any outsider to get into the breakaway, hoping to have two minutes at the bottom of the climb, knowing that they were going to get dropped anyway? Once on that climb, tactics won't really come into it, as it's not that much easier than the Zoncolan.
 
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SafeBet said:
Lopez and Yates in the break, so we can have more contenders back in the GC.
If they won't let them in the break then attack on Verrogne. Pantani made a similar attack on Morzine and Contador on the Croix de Fer. Long shot but gutsy and beautiful
 
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Pantani_lives said:
Roglic can look at the situation in two ways:

1. It's very complicated. There are still seven to ten guys who can win the Giro. He doesn't have the team to respond to every attack.
2. It's very simple. If he always stays with Nibali he will win the Giro.

Yesterday he gambled and took the second point of view. Maybe that was too passive. It brought other riders back into contention, especially the duo from Movistar. Landa is peaking in the second half of the Giro and people are still underestimating Carapaz. It was a fascinating bit of psychological warfare between Roglic and Nibali, but neither of them can be very happy with the result. On the other hand it could mean that these two will have more energy left for today and tomorrow. The San Carlo will judge, not to mention the dangerous descent afterwards.
I think the psychological warfare is being overrated between Nibali and Roglic. A lot of people think they could have done much better. I'm not sure about that. They don't have to chase the race like Landa and Lopez because of their superior TT rides. Interestingly they let Zakarin make up 3 minutes. Zakarin said after the race he was aiming for the top five which is a humble way of saying he is aiming for the podium. Either Nibali and Roglic don't see him as a major threat or they think Zakarin's inconsistency in grand tours will continue. They also let Mollema drag back some time but like Zakarin he is another one who tends to have bad days often in the third week. I think Nibali is just making use of his experience while Roglic is being cautious and they are both avoiding big efforts in the mountains so far from the finish. Sooner or later the other teams will force their hand and that's when it will get dangerous without a strong team to help in the chase, if they are having a bad day.Lopez and Landa still have a lot of time to make up.
 
I dont think top tier gc riders like Roglic and Nibali are ever gonna be afraid of Mollema. He doesnt have the top level to be a true threat. Letting Zakarin back in is a completely different situation and I dont think Nibali and Roglic are too happy about that. He might be prone to crashes and inconsistencies but on his day he can climb with anybody. He is also a very good tt’er at the end of a GT usually.
 
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Bushman said:
I dont think top tier gc riders like Roglic and Nibali are ever gonna be afraid of Mollema. He doesnt have the top level to be a true threat. Letting Zakarin back in is a completely different situation and I dont think Nibali and Roglic are too happy about that. He might be prone to crashes and inconsistencies but on his day he can climb with anybody. He is also a very good tt’er at the end of a GT usually.
Yeah Zakarin is really typically just hit or miss, especially at the start of a GT. Last year he was nowhere at the start and then he was quite decent in the 3rd week and very aggressive too, eventually getting 9th. I'd say though that his peak isn't too scary for Nibali or Roglic, but Nibali has now managed to fall behind him on GC.
 
Re: Re:

Tonton said:
Singer01 said:
Moviefan1203 said:
My guess is Roglic will follow wheels again, and Nibali will need a box of tissues after crying to the Italian media.
He really is coming across as whiny isnt he.
Or playing mind games, trying to push Roglic to make a stupid mistake. Or trying to get the tifosi fired-up (dangerous thing). I like Vincenzo, but coming from the guy (along with Quintana) who was expecting Dumoulin to bridge the gap to Pinot/Pozzo, prompting Dumoulin to wish them out of the podium two years ago, it seems disingenuous.

Nibali is a fox, not a sportsman. He attacked when SK was feeding and won Il Giro, attacked Pinot who was feeding, opened a gap and won a GDL, like it or not, he'll use guerilla tactics all the way. Not pretty, but as he says, he has a nice collection of trophies to show for.

Another big battle tomorrow, and I'm curious to see who will pay for today's efforts. The war of attrition has begun. Polanc to remain in pink, Madouas another good finish (great ride for a first GT), if Roglic gets a "same time" as his foes, he'll be one step closer.
I agree Nibali isn't afraid of playing dirty but what should he have done in those races you mentioned? Not attacking Pinot on the descent? Not attacking kruiswijk on the descent? It's not like nibali never attacks on descents and only did so here because his rivals were feeding (were they even?). Everyone and his mother knew those attacks were coming before they happened so claiming Nibali was doing anything wrong there seems weird to me.

About the dumoulin thing, that was actually a very similar situation and imo he did absolutely everything right. Dumoulin ended up chasing, pozzo and zakarin still ended up behind him in the gc. Let's see if it works out like this again but as he couldn't drop Roglic I don't see what else he should have done.
Those things he said afterwards, well, you like that kind of trashtalk or you don't, not gonna blame anyone for calling him whiny
 
Sep 12, 2017
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I don't see Zakarin as a big threat for GC. He is systematically dropped going downhill. The descent of San Carlo could be all he needs to lose all the time he gained yesterday
 
Zakarin hasn't looked like a consistent stage racer since the 2017 Vuelta.
Even in one week races this year a good performance would sistematically be followed by a bad one.

If he's in his 2017 shape though, he'll be better and better as days pass.
 
I think Nibali is doing the right thing racing against Roglic, like yesterday. He will have to deal with him before dealing with the others. Challenging Roglic. Even if that means letting others back in contention or gaining time. It is a risky game but a game he will have to play, until Roglic cracks.

Today with the descent after the climb might be good for Nibali (but it is a short stage). Sunday should suit him like a hand in glove though. Neither him and Roglic went 100% yesterday, will it pay off today? Or will it be the same cat and mouse game? Who blinks first in letting the others get away.

Im worried Landa, Zakarin and Mollema will fade this weekend. Luckily for Movistar, Carapaz is looking great too. If not the best, I think. He has been getting a good ride also. With Landa being the one going for the longer attacks and efforts.

Unfortunately, Im missing todays stage and will have to rewatch in the evening. Think it will be carnage and minutes between the GC favorites. That was pretty much all my thoughts before the stage.
 
Re: Re:

movingtarget said:
Pantani_lives said:
Roglic can look at the situation in two ways:

1. It's very complicated. There are still seven to ten guys who can win the Giro. He doesn't have the team to respond to every attack.
2. It's very simple. If he always stays with Nibali he will win the Giro.

Yesterday he gambled and took the second point of view. Maybe that was too passive. It brought other riders back into contention, especially the duo from Movistar. Landa is peaking in the second half of the Giro and people are still underestimating Carapaz. It was a fascinating bit of psychological warfare between Roglic and Nibali, but neither of them can be very happy with the result. On the other hand it could mean that these two will have more energy left for today and tomorrow. The San Carlo will judge, not to mention the dangerous descent afterwards.
I think the psychological warfare is being overrated between Nibali and Roglic. A lot of people think they could have done much better. I'm not sure about that. They don't have to chase the race like Landa and Lopez because of their superior TT rides. Interestingly they let Zakarin make up 3 minutes. Zakarin said after the race he was aiming for the top five which is a humble way of saying he is aiming for the podium. Either Nibali and Roglic don't see him as a major threat or they think Zakarin's inconsistency in grand tours will continue. They also let Mollema drag back some time but like Zakarin he is another one who tends to have bad days often in the third week. I think Nibali is just making use of his experience while Roglic is being cautious and they are both avoiding big efforts in the mountains so far from the finish. Sooner or later the other teams will force their hand and that's when it will get dangerous without a strong team to help in the chase, if they are having a bad day.Lopez and Landa still have a lot of time to make up.
I think it's a mistake that they let Zakarin back in the game if they think he will definitely fade in the last week. I think Zakarin's problem with consistency is mainly traceable in the variation in his results between races. In grand tours he has shown that he can keep it up for 3 weeks. Even in last year's Tour he actually got better as the race progressed into the 3rd week.

I don't know about TGBM. He is far more likely to crack than Zakarin, so they probably should not worry too much about him.
 
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Rollthedice said:
Lequack said:
Zakarin will win this bike race. Next Giro to start in Moscow.
This is not Eurovision. On the other hand today it will be rain, I think at the latest the descent from San Carlo will be decisive for quite a few who want to win this Giro.
Thanks for reminding me the Dutch have to organise that shite now :eek:
 
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Salvarani said:
I think Nibali is doing the right thing racing against Roglic, like yesterday. He will have to deal with him before dealing with the others. Challenging Roglic. Even if that means letting others back in contention or gaining time. It is a risky game but a game he will have to play, until Roglic cracks.

Today with the descent after the climb might be good for Nibali (but it is a short stage). Sunday should suit him like a hand in glove though. Neither him and Roglic went 100% yesterday, will it pay off today? Or will it be the same cat and mouse game? Who blinks first in letting the others get away.

Im worried Landa, Zakarin and Mollema will fade this weekend. Luckily for Movistar, Carapaz is looking great too. If not the best, I think. He has been getting a good ride also. With Landa being the one going for the longer attacks and efforts.

Unfortunately, Im missing todays stage and will have to rewatch in the evening. Think it will be carnage and minutes between the GC favorites. That was pretty much all my thoughts before the stage.
I agree with sunday being a ˜Nibali stage˜, one that he could had planed to go for and until then he will not be happy to bleed time to others because Roglic won't do as he planned.
I guess the others gc contenders already realised the duo will keep together and will keep taking advantage..
 
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MatParker117 said:
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/giro-ditalia-risk-of-avalanches-likely-to-end-hopes-of-climbing-the-gavia/

Gavia out
F*ck f*ck f*ck. That's the stage I was most looking forward to for the whole season gone. No matter how the stage now looks instead it will be disappointing.
 

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