4 minutes vs 40 minutes

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Mar 18, 2009
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TheBean said:
However, the total number of muscle fibers of different types remains unchanged - determined by genetics.
That's very much old school (ca. 1970s) thinking. At a minimum, it must be acknowledged that significant fiber type transformation is quite possible in animal models/with extreme interventions, and may occurs in humans with training.
 
Jul 17, 2012
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acoggan said:
That's very much old school (ca. 1970s) thinking. At a minimum, it must be acknowledged that significant fiber type transformation is quite possible in animal models/with extreme interventions, and may occurs in humans with training.
Is it the case though that muscle fibres cannot be converted into "fast-twitch" fibres?

Having watched many sports over the years, my conclusion would be that while competitors can be made bigger, lighter, stronger and better at endurance, they cannot be made to sprint faster (ie flat out maximal efforts over short distances) once they've mastered the technical aspects of the discipline.
 
Mar 18, 2009
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Wallace and Gromit said:
Is it the case though that muscle fibres cannot be converted into "fast-twitch" fibres?
Sure they can - just ask anyone with a severe spinal cord injury.

Wallace and Gromit said:
Having watched many sports over the years, my conclusion would be that while competitors can be made bigger, lighter, stronger and better at endurance, they cannot be made to sprint faster (ie flat out maximal efforts over short distances) once they've mastered the technical aspects of the discipline?
While there is undoubtedly some truth to the old adage "sprinters are born, not made", sprinting ability is indeed trainable.
 
Jul 17, 2012
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acoggan said:
While there is undoubtedly some truth to the old adage "sprinters are born, not made", sprinting ability is indeed trainable.
But is this primarily via technical improvements rather than generating significantly more fast twitch fibres?
 
Jan 23, 2013
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In addition to muscle fiber type (interesting discussion), angles of pennation for non-fusiform muscles must also be taken into account when determining a riders power/weight ratio.

Athetes with larger angles of pennation generally have larger a cross-sectional area for any given muscle. This allows for greater generation of power, but with a significant weight penalty. In addition to the weight penalty, more oxygen must be consumed by the muscle to generate the additional power. For that reason, it is reasonable to assume that ahtletes with larger angles of pennation would be able to generate greater power, but for a shorter period of time - to addres the 4 minute vs 40 minute theme of this thread.

In any case, for many physiological - mechanical - psychological reasons, different athletes excel at different disciplines, different distances and in different conditions. Some of those reasons are trainable to a much greater extent than others.
 
Sep 29, 2012
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acoggan said:
At a minimum, it must be acknowledged that significant fiber type transformation is quite possible in animal models/with extreme interventions, and may occurs in humans with training.
Please tell us all about Ed Coyle's study.
 
Mar 18, 2009
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Dear Wiggo said:
Please tell us all about Ed Coyle's study.
You mean you've never actually read the paper?!? You must not have, because if you had you'd know that one limitation of the study was the lack of biopsy data to support the suggestion of a change in fiber type.
 
Sep 29, 2012
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acoggan said:
You mean you've never actually read the paper?!? You must not have, because if you had you'd know that one limitation of the study was the lack of biopsy data to support the suggestion of a change in fiber type.
Hey pal, I was the one who knew instantly your definition of "plateau" was off the mark by almost 45%.

:p
 
Mar 18, 2009
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Dear Wiggo said:
Hey pal, I was the one who knew instantly your definition of "plateau" was off the mark by almost 45%.
Ya think? Based on the data presented, Armstrong's gross efficiency would have increased only another 0.15% in absolute terms (8% in a relative sense) before plateauing (see below). (Interesting how this time course tends to parallel the development of endurance athletes in general.)

 
Mar 18, 2009
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Dear Wiggo said:
another guessing game!!! oh, goodie!!!
There is no guessing about the fact that gross efficiency was leveling off. The rest is just maths (not your strong suit, obviously).
 
Sep 29, 2012
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acoggan said:
The rest is just maths (not your strong suit, obviously).
acoggan said:
Armstrong's gross efficiency would have increased only another 0.15% in absolute terms (8% in a relative sense)
Your relative sense value is out by a factor of 10x.
 
Mar 18, 2009
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Dear Wiggo said:
Your relative sense value is out by a factor of 10x.
Sorry, I changed how I was presenting things mid-post. I had originally written that only 8% of the total increase would have occurred between 28.2 and 31.3 y, but then failed to correct the figure when I switched to describing the absolute and relative changes.
 

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