6700 or force

[urban attacker]

I have been using 6600 groupo for long while and have really enjoyed shifting on the fly and now I am forced to get a new group.I am only concerned on shifting.
Is the 6700 hard to maintain from day to day ? Any cable tricks to reduce friction or special lubing ?
Is sram worth all hype ?
Again Im only looking at 6700 and the force.


thx

 

[Black Dog]

Are Campy Chorus or Athena out of the question?

 

[M Sport]

Shimano 6700 over Force and day of the week for me, might be a little heavier but shifting, braking, crank stiffness and reliability are much better.

 

[steelciocc]

Shimano if you must...

I agree with M Sport, 6700 over Force any day. But, you really should consider Athena too.

If your only reservation is compatability of wheels you aready have there are numerous "conversion" cassettes available that get Campagnolo spacing on Shimano splines.

 

[AnythingButKestrel]

Shimano 6700 over Force and day of the week for me, might be a little heavier but shifting, braking, crank stiffness and reliability are much better.

I've ridden a bunch of miles on both this year and IMO Force buries Ultegra. Force shifters do take about 500 or so miles to loosen up and break in (hence the complaints about it), but after that it's great. Ultegra starts out great and then starts to get really fussy.

SRAM uses much stronger springs on the rear derailleur than Shimano and that's a lot of the reason why it stays in adjustment better. SRAM bottom brackets are crap and you should just bin it for a good one before you even ride the bike. It will only cause you pain.

 

[AnythingButKestrel]

Any cable tricks to reduce friction or special lubing ?

As I understand it, every cable housing end on Ultegra 6700 is supposed to have a ferrule crimped to it. Otherwise you end up with sticky shifting. Ultegra is really susceptible to dirty cable housings. It's great if you don't ride in the wet, but a couple rain games and its just not the same anymore. A Shimano rep will be able to guide you through the specifics.

 

[DarkWarrior]

I've ridden a bunch of miles on both this year and IMO Force buries Ultegra. Force shifters do take about 500 or so miles to loosen up and break in (hence the complaints about it), but after that it's great. Ultegra starts out great and then starts to get really fussy.

SRAM uses much stronger springs on the rear derailleur than Shimano and that's a lot of the reason why it stays in adjustment better. SRAM bottom brackets are crap and you should just bin it for a good one before you even ride the bike. It will only cause you pain.

+1 I have been using Sram now for three years and I have found that the stiffer springs equal more precise shifting and fewer adjustments/less maintenance over time than the competition. I did have a shifter break on me summer before last, but Sram replaced it within a few days, no questions asked. I also agree that I would steer clear of the Sram/Truvativ bottom brackets, I had trouble with mine as well.

 

[forty four]

Shimano 6700 over Force and day of the week for me, might be a little heavier but shifting, braking, crank stiffness and reliability are much better.

he speaks the truth shimano is superior in all ways but weight worked at a shop seen what works and what does not. as for campy there sort of behind these days most companies dont offer campy equipped bikes anymore to pricey not much innovation for example there brake calipers wtf other wise good stuff but why bother. shimano and sram are killing it lately. i love my dura ace 7800 and 7900 hundred never had any problems of any kind in over 65000 miles racing training bad weather good weather crashes etc... same bb's to lol.

 

[Bustedknuckle]

As I understand it, every cable housing end on Ultegra 6700 is supposed to have a ferrule crimped to it. Otherwise you end up with sticky shifting. Ultegra is really susceptible to dirty cable housings. It's great if you don't ride in the wet, but a couple rain games and its just not the same anymore. A Shimano rep will be able to guide you through the specifics.

Use 5mm housing and brass ferrules and you'll have none of the 6700 finickyness. After warrantying the 8 sram shifter and seeing how poor the FD, cogsets, chains and BB work...shimano 6700 anyday. sram is mediocre stuff marketed really well.

 

[Night Rider]

I have ridden both and if I was in your position it would be an easy choice, Ultegra 6700.

 

[LugHugger]

I've put 15000 miles on SRAM in the last 18 months with zero defects. Only had to fine tune the indexing when I changed the chain. Low cost, low weight, fit and forget (with CK b/b). What's not to like?

 

[chasbo]

Personally, I prefer the 6700 stuff over the Force. I find that the Force cassette/chain combination isn't as smooth during shifts nor as quiet in general. Having said that, the rest of the Force stuff is well made and up to par with its Shimano counterparts. I don't like the way the shifters work as well on the SRAM stuff, but that is entirely a personal preference.

I will second using 5mm housing and brass ferrules on any shifting system, be it Shimano, SRAM or Campy. Definitely makes for smoother long term shifting performance.

 

[TheDude]

Centaur Carbon, and get a 2010 over a 2011 if you can.

 

[TexPat]

Centaur or 6700-unless you like chunky clunky funky shifting. Then go for the Force.
SRAM has all the feel of a cheap plastic chinese toy (and less precision!)

 

[lanternrouge]

Centaur Carbon, and get a 2010 over a 2011 if you can.

Why Centaur when you can get Athena cheaper than 6700 or Force?

 

[purpletezza]

Simple. Shimano. 12000kms on D/A 7800 mostly racing - no probs. 11000kms on Ultegra 6600 commuting and training - no probs, getting the first change of cassette and chain now. Only ever used Shimano 7spd, 9 spd, 10 spd. All good.

Best advice for any groupset is keep it clean!! Dirt and grit can reduce life by maybe 80%. Get a clip over chain cleaner(like Park Tools Chain Scrubber) and degreaser and run the chain through it once a month, even if you clean nothing else on the bike. Hose the chain off, but keep the water away from the bearings.

 

[Bustedknuckle]

Simple. Shimano. 12000kms on D/A 7800 mostly racing - no probs. 11000kms on Ultegra 6600 commuting and training - no probs, getting the first change of cassette and chain now. Only ever used Shimano 7spd, 9 spd, 10 spd. All good.

Best advice for any groupset is keep it clean!! Dirt and grit can reduce life by maybe 80%. Get a clip over chain cleaner(like Park Tools Chain Scrubber) and degreaser and run the chain through it once a month, even if you clean nothing else on the bike. Hose the chain off, but keep the water away from the bearings.

Agree with this but get a tool-less snap link, take the chain off, into a plastic milk container(w/o the milk) and some solvent, shake, shake, shake, let dry. In the meantime, cogs off, chainrings off, pulleys off..clean, clean..grasso into the pulleys..makes a drivetrain last much longer.

 

[J Kanski]

Sonicator bath will clean the chain like nothing else. I use a combination of 6700 or 7800 chains with KMC link. Easy to remove w/o shifting problems.

The only thing against the new Ultegra are exposed shift levers mechanisms. This can be critical if ridden in bad weather. IMO if price is similar, I would go with Ultegra.

 

[AnythingButKestrel]

Centaur or 6700-unless you like chunky clunky funky shifting. Then go for the Force.
SRAM has all the feel of a cheap plastic chinese toy (and less precision!)

How long did you ride it before you gave up on it? I'm not apologizing for SRAM's out-of-the-box crappy performance, but it really does seem to improve with age. There's a detent in the shifters that seems to loosen up after a while. Until then, yes there's a lot of funky shifting and missed shifts. After that, it's pretty much Smith-Corona shifting. I've not ridden 'Ace, so maybe there's a land of milk and honey that I don't know enough to be missing.

Of course, now that I've said it I won't be able to hit all gear for three months once the ice breaks here.....

 

[Road Hazard]

I ride Force and Shimano 105 with Ultrega chain.

The rear mechs are both precise. Both are quiet when clean, both are noisy when dirty. The Force rear mech does chuck down into smaller cogs, but doesn't bother me.

The 105 (and Ultrega, I've test ridden it) front chain rings are laterally stiffer than Force, you can pinch Force with your fingers and get deflection. Shifting from small ring to large in Force is not as determined as I would like.

But, I do like Force for the fact that my brake lever is my brake lever and my shift paddle is my shift paddle. I will occasionally brake by accident a little when shifting from small ring to big with 105.

My Ultrega chains have been good for about 2,000 miles, the SRAM PG1070 good for about 2,600 miles, obviously dependent on how often you clean, type of riding, etc, but on average that's how it's turned out for me.

 

[BroDeal]

How long did you ride it before you gave up on it? I'm not apologizing for SRAM's out-of-the-box crappy performance, but it really does seem to improve with age.

Does that happen before or after it breaks? Seriously, the thing that has always turned me off about SRAM is that they are incapable of maintaining a consistent level of quality, not just throughout their entire product line but even throughout a single gruppo. You never know what you will get.

It does not inspire confidence when people trying to talk you into their MTB groups all say, "Use a Shiman chain and cassette and front derailleur, and you might want to think about using different brakes." Both Shimano and Campy can be relied upon, with the very occasional exception, to make good quality and durable products. The same cannot be said for SRAM.

You have to love people's tolerance for problems while still singing the praises of SRAM. Yeah, SRAM is great. The cassettes suck, the chains suck, the BBs suck, the chainrings suck, but, aside from all that, it's great.

 

[DirtyWorks]

Sonicator bath will clean the chain like nothing else. I use a combination of 6700 or 7800 chains with KMC link. Easy to remove w/o shifting problems.

Those ultrasonic cleaner thingies are great! Last shop I ever worked at had one. Just great.

How come none of you are using parafin(sp??)/bees wax dips? You get fantastical cleaning like *really* bad for you solvent and a well lubricated chain all in one. No sonicator needed.

 

[richwagmn]

Sonicator bath will clean the chain like nothing else. I use a combination of 6700 or 7800 chains with KMC link. Easy to remove w/o shifting problems.

The only thing against the new Ultegra are exposed shift levers mechanisms. This can be critical if ridden in bad weather. IMO if price is similar, I would go with Ultegra.

Interesting. I tried the 9spd KMC link on my DA 9 speed chain, and the chain dropped a couple miles from home. The SRAM link has been flawless for me. Maybe the KMC 10spd link is better?

 

[J Kanski]

I have used the 10 spd KMC chain link - a very cheap one, about $3 at the LBS. No problems whatsoever.

Once I had SRAM chain link that came with SRAM 1070 chain. No problems either, although the chain seemed to be much noisier than Shimano's. Also it is difficult/impossible to open with bare hands - it defies the concept of a connector.