75th La Fleche Wallonne 201km Wednesday April20nd 2011

[boomcie]

Boonen is the only cyclist I could find that my girlfriend thought was even a bit attractive. They all seem a bit weird looking.

You actually played that game with your girlfriend? With some sort of cyclist catalogue?

Weirdo.

 

[Von Mises]

Not sure if these times are correct, found them somewhere on the internet:

Kim Kirchen: 3'02"
Davide Rebellin: 2'46"
Cadel Evans: 2'45"
Philippe Gilbert: 2'42"

Also, for the whole race:
Kirchen: 4h 35' 29"
Rebellin: 4h 42' 15"
Evans: 4h 29' 24"
Gilbert: 4h 54' 57"

More or less, I think. I clocked Gilbert 2.44, Evans 2.46, Kirchen 3.01, Rebbelin 2.47.

And to throw couple of others into mix. Astarloa (2003) 3.19 and Armstrong (1996) was 2.49. Astarloa and Armstrong were not mass sprint, they won from breakaway.

 

[beer_thirty]

More or less, I think. I clocked Gilbert 2.44, Evans 2.46, Kirchen 3.01, Rebbelin 2.47.

And to throw couple of others into mix. Astarloa (2003) 3.19 and Armstrong (1996) was 2.49. Astarloa and Armstrong were not mass sprint, they won from breakaway.

Wow, didn't realize Armstrong was that quick; pretty fast from a break. Anyone know how long they were away in that race?

It's such an odd climb; not as steep at the bottom so you can be making some good time, but that finish, wow. Bet it seems like a long damn last 500m if you've misjudged it and your legs have popped.

 

[jens_attacks]

More or less, I think. I clocked Gilbert 2.44, Evans 2.46, Kirchen 3.01, Rebbelin 2.47.

And to throw couple of others into mix. Astarloa (2003) 3.19 and Armstrong (1996) was 2.49. Astarloa and Armstrong were not mass sprint, they won from breakaway.

like i said gillbert on huy was probably the fastest in history.i don't know,maybe only jaja did better?

 

[roundabout]

Wow, didn't realize Armstrong was that quick; pretty fast from a break. Anyone know how long they were away in that race?

70k or so. Last 12 together with Rous.

 

[Lanark]

I really doubt that Gilbert was faster than the 1991-2000 period, although we had little/no bunch sprints in those days, they still should be faster.

 

[El Pistolero]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p-O2_KwWMUg

Here's Armstrong's FW.

 

[The Hitch]

I really doubt that Gilbert was faster than the 1991-2000 period, although we had little/no bunch sprints in those days, they still should be faster.

Why should they be faster in that period?

 

[Von Mises]

Just to add. These measurements are so-so. Taken from 1 km banner and if mass sprint from the head of peloton, not particular rider.

 

[boomcie]

Why should they be faster in that period?

Was a certain 3-letter era.

 

[Lanark]

Why should they be faster in that period?

For clinic reasons, even accepting people aren't clean now, the benefit you could get from a hematocrit of 55% should be much higher than anything possible with the biological passport in place. The same reason nobody will get close to Pantanis time on Alpe, and I believe Giorgio Furlans time on the Poggio is still a record as well.

 

[auscyclefan94]

Interesting that Gilbert was quicker than Evans and Rebellin from past years. I am a bit surprised. To me it didn't seem as fast as last year because it split up much later.

Interesting to compare the riders in the top 10 from the two past editions

2010
1 Cadel Evans (Aus) BMC Racing Team 4:39:24 (41.8754 kmh)
2 Joaquin Rodriguez Oliver (Spa) Team Katusha
3 Alberto Contador Velasco (Spa) Astana
4 Igor Anton Hernandez (Spa) Euskaltel - Euskadi + 0:06
5 Damiano Cunego (Ita) Lampre-Farnese Vini + 0:09
6 Philippe Gilbert (Bel) Omega Pharma-Lotto + 0:11
7 Christopher Horner (USA) Team Radioshack
8 Alejandro Valverde Belmonte (Spa) Caisse d'Epargne
9 Andy Schleck (Lux) Team Saxo Bank
10 Ryder Hesjedal (Can) Garmin - Transitions

2011
1 Philippe Gilbert (Bel) Omega Pharma-Lotto 4:54:57
2 Joaquím Rodríguez Olivier (Spa) Katusha + 00:03
3 Samuel Sánchez Gonzalez (Spa) Euskaltel-Euskadi + 00:05
4 Alexandre Vinokourov (Kaz) Pro Team Astana + 00:06
5 Igor Anton Hernandez (Spa) Euskaltel-Euskadi
6 Jelle Vanendert (Bel) Omega Pharma-Lotto
7 Fränk Schleck (Lux) Leopard Trek
8 Daniel Moreno Fernandez (Spa) Katusha Team + 00:09
9 Christophe Le Mevel (Fra) Team Garmin-Cervelo + 00:12
10 Paul Martens (Ger) Rabobank Cycling Team

 

[The Hitch]

Was a certain 3-letter era.

For clinic reasons, even accepting people aren't clean now, the benefit you could get from a hematocrit of 55% should be much higher than anything possible with the biological passport in place. The same reason nobody will get close to Pantanis time on Alpe, and I believe Giorgio Furlans time on the Poggio is still a record as well.

Well on the clinic thread I set up about Gilbert, it is argued that doping wouldnt help with something like the muur de huy anyway. Only in 500k tts and climbing Alpe with stones glued to your bike and the like would epo prove useful.

Interesting that Gilbert was quicker than Evans and Rebellin from past years. I am a bit surprised. To me it didn't seem as fast as last year because it split up much later.

Interesting to compare the riders in the top 10 from the two past editions

Bare in mind Gilbert didnt pace himself like Cuddles, but instead rode with the pack, then put some huge attack in, then slowed down big time to celebrate. Had he been going for a time trial type performance to get the best time, he could have absolutely crushed all records.

I thought had Cadel been there he would have won but looking at these figures it seems unlikely.

Yesterday I was impressed that Gilbert won FW. Today Im impressed to find out that he could have beaten any cyclist in history on it.

 

[Captain_Cavman]

Interesting that Gilbert was quicker than Evans and Rebellin from past years. I am a bit surprised. To me it didn't seem as fast as last year because it split up much later.

Interesting to compare the riders in the top 10 from the two past editions

2010
1 Cadel Evans (Aus) BMC Racing Team 4:39:24 (41.8754 kmh)
2 Joaquin Rodriguez Oliver (Spa) Team Katusha
3 Alberto Contador Velasco (Spa) Astana
4 Igor Anton Hernandez (Spa) Euskaltel - Euskadi + 0:06
5 Damiano Cunego (Ita) Lampre-Farnese Vini + 0:09
6 Philippe Gilbert (Bel) Omega Pharma-Lotto + 0:11
7 Christopher Horner (USA) Team Radioshack
8 Alejandro Valverde Belmonte (Spa) Caisse d'Epargne
9 Andy Schleck (Lux) Team Saxo Bank
10 Ryder Hesjedal (Can) Garmin - Transitions

2011
1 Philippe Gilbert (Bel) Omega Pharma-Lotto 4:54:57
2 Joaquím Rodríguez Olivier (Spa) Katusha + 00:03
3 Samuel Sánchez Gonzalez (Spa) Euskaltel-Euskadi + 00:05
4 Alexandre Vinokourov (Kaz) Pro Team Astana + 00:06
5 Igor Anton Hernandez (Spa) Euskaltel-Euskadi
6 Jelle Vanendert (Bel) Omega Pharma-Lotto
7 Fränk Schleck (Lux) Leopard Trek
8 Daniel Moreno Fernandez (Spa) Katusha Team + 00:09
9 Christophe Le Mevel (Fra) Team Garmin-Cervelo + 00:12
10 Paul Martens (Ger) Rabobank Cycling Team

Interestingly, 2010 FW was a pretty good indication of GT form to come. Apart from Cunego & Gilbert. And even they had some success. And Valverde of course.

 

[boomcie]

Well on the clinic thread I set up about Gilbert, it is argued that doping wouldnt help with something like the muur de huy anyway. Only in 500k tts and climbing Alpe with stones glued to your bike and the like would epo prove useful.

This I find hard to believe. That's just silly. Maybe if you start the race at the foot of the Mur, it's effects are negligible, but after a 200k race? Go eat that theory with salsa dip please.

 

[auscyclefan94]

Well on the clinic thread I set up about Gilbert, it is argued that doping wouldnt help with something like the muur de huy anyway. Only in 500k tts and climbing Alpe with stones glued to your bike and the like would epo prove useful.



Bare in mind Gilbert didnt pace himself like Cuddles, but instead rode with the pack, then put some huge attack in, then slowed down big time to celebrate. Had he been going for a time trial type performance to get the best time, he could have absolutely crushed all records.

I thought had Cadel been there he would have won but looking at these figures it seems unlikely.

Yesterday I was impressed that Gilbert won FW. Today Im impressed to find out that he could have beaten any cyclist in history on it.

- Fleche was much harder last year
- Many more of the well known climbers were up there in 2010, were not present in 2011.
- A big group rode together for most of the climb. Guys like Vino have ridden close to the fastest fleche times in history. Vino is definetly not known for being up there in these finishes. You have to take these times into perspective, just like with bobridge's WR ride in comparison to Boardman's or Thomas' times in the Pursuit.
- If he tried to time trial up it he would of blown
-When gilbert crossed the line, like any fleche winner, he was absolutely ****ed from the effort.

 

[El Pistolero]

Interestingly, 2010 FW was a pretty good indication of GT form to come. Apart from Cunego & Gilbert. And even they had some success. And Valverde of course.

I think that if someday Gilbert would get it into his head to want to win the Vuelta he could do it(losing weight and stuff + a weak field like last year)

But let's be honest, why would he want to blow his changes to win more classics just for the Vuelta. It's not like he'll ever win the Tour or Giro or even the Vuelta if it has mountains like the Angliru in it.

 

[auscyclefan94]

I think that if someday Gilbert would get it into his head to want to win the Vuelta he could do it(losing weight and stuff + a weak field like last year)

But let's be honest, why would he want to blow his changes to win more classics just for the Vuelta. It's not like he'll ever win the Tour or Giro or even the Vuelta if it has mountains like the Angliru in it.

Give me a break, he would never come close to Purito or Anton on the climbs nor tt with Nibali.

 

[El Pistolero]

He totally destroyed Purito on a climb that suits him perfectly.

Anton crashes out like always, he's no contender.

Vuelta usually isn't very mountainous, with only climbs in the final.

 

[Ferminal]

Bare in mind Gilbert didnt pace himself like Cuddles, but instead rode with the pack, then put some huge attack in, then slowed down big time to celebrate. Had he been going for a time trial type performance to get the best time, he could have absolutely crushed all records.

I thought had Cadel been there he would have won but looking at these figures it seems unlikely.

Yesterday I was impressed that Gilbert won FW. Today Im impressed to find out that he could have beaten any cyclist in history on it.

The question I have, is what would Gilbert have done if there were early attacks like last year.

Even if Gilbert can ride the fastest time out of anyone there, would he be able to hold his nerve and pace it right until the time where he wants to kick? If he was forced into a higher tempo earlier, would that strain him to the point where he isn't as powerful when it's time to turn it on?

The thing with Gilbert though, is that he could probably attack from 600m out and still win.

 

[Von Mises]

Bare in mind Gilbert didnt pace himself like Cuddles, but instead rode with the pack, then put some huge attack in, then slowed down big time to celebrate. Had he been going for a time trial type performance to get the best time, he could have absolutely crushed all records.

Not necessarily. Maybe he´d blown up like Contador last year. Maybe it suited him better that this time they went first part of the climb much slower. We dont know, but it is not so simple like you put it.

 

[roundabout]

It was pretty slow for the first half in 2009 when a rider like Le Lay was able to get enough of a gap to even finish 12th at the end but when the pace went up Gilbert just disappeared.

Mind you he could have been working for Evans that day, although it isn't clear from the video and i don't remember the Lotto strategy for the race.

 

[The Hitch]

I think that if someday Gilbert would get it into his head to want to win the Vuelta he could do it(losing weight and stuff + a weak field like last year)

But let's be honest, why would he want to blow his changes to win more classics just for the Vuelta. It's not like he'll ever win the Tour or Giro or even the Vuelta if it has mountains like the Angliru in it.

I hardly doubt Gilbert could ever get close to the Vuelta. Hes not a special tter as it is and would probably lose some tt skill if he focused more on long climbs. Moreover while Martin types might just could do something by maxing out their tt skills (which allows you to get a few minutes on your competitors), Gilbert is never going to get more than 10 seconds + 20 bonus on his type of finish.

Your support for him really knows no bounds if you think he can beat real gt riders in the Vuelta

 

[El Pistolero]

Yeah GT riders like Mosquera and Peter Velits

Even Joaquim Rodriguez has recently said he probably rather wins a real Ardennes classic than his very own Vuelta. I just don't rate the Vuelta that high. Never will.

 

[roundabout]

Hey, what's wrong with Mosquera as a GT rider? He managed i think 4 consecutive top-5 finishes in the Vuelta before getting semi-busted.