86th Tour de Suisse (2.UWT) // June 11th - 18th 2023

[houtdffan]

It's easy to make a deal when only two have to agree. How many do you think made the deal today?

It has happened before

I would have rather this been the case yesterday, however. That is when we usually see the tribute stage. Today should have been raced as scheduled

 

[peterfin]

That's what makes it a worthy tribute: he knows he may pay for this tomorrow, but he wanted to do it anyway.

Honoring Gino was clearly the only thing on his mind today. Giving himself some space to properly honor Gino with fingers to heaven in his rainbow colors was likely his plan from the start. That's emo-Remco. That's one of the reasons I am a fan.

 

[Big Doopie]

Well it sure didn't take long for you to show your true colors.

lol. @Logic-is-your-friend you have usually been more prescient than me. and yet i have had "them" on ignore after a mere 14 posts.

already makes visiting these forums much better.

 

[Netserk]

It has happened before

I would have rather this been the case yesterday, however. That is when we usually see the tribute stage. Today should have been raced as scheduled

That doesn't answer the question. How many do you think coordinated to make Evenepoel the winner? Was Ineos in on it?

 

[Bolder]

Call me sentimental but I liked what Remco did. He is the patron of the peloton here after all.

 

[Riek s]

That doesn't answer the question. How many do you think coordinated to make Evenepoel the winner? Was Ineos in on it?

I think at best some riders didn't 'participate' today. But to me it seems Remco was the strongest of that group we know for sure particiated. (and won fairly and impressively).

 

[kingjr]

It wasn't scripted. It was booked like an AEW match. The winner was pre determined. The riders had to figure out on the fly how they would go about accomplishing it

Why would Evenepoel have been the pre-determined winner of today?

 

[Danskebjerge]

It's true that there is no correct way of doing things on a day like this one. I just find it a bit too easy to claim that any decision - "not racing" or going for the stage win or whatever - is related to the accident. Clichés may be okay sometimes, but they undermine their own purpose if they are overdone. I like honesty more.

 

[houtdffan]

That doesn't answer the question. How many do you think coordinated to make Evenepoel the winner? Was Ineos in on it?

Kind of looked that way to me. They made it look semi believable.

I'm not sure that Remco has the form in this race given what we have seen to pull off a raid

 

[houtdffan]

Why would Evenepoel have been the pre-determined winner of today?

Dunno. Maybe the patron and world champion is the first across the line?

 

[Berniece]

Honoring Gino was clearly the only thing on his mind today. Giving himself some space to properly honor Gino with fingers to heaven in his rainbow colors was likely his plan from the start. That's emo-Remco. That's one of the reasons I am a fan.

During the day I was thinking about if we were going to see emo-Remco go all out, just like he did for Jakobsen. It’s when he’s at his best. Beautiful tribute of him.

I also don’t think this was staged at all. Maybe once he launched people decided to let him win, but this definitely wasn’t decided beforehand. Let’s take off that tinfoil hat

 

[Rackham]

I don't really think the behaviour of the riders are best explained by it being a non-race. It was weird, but it didn't look scripted like wrestling.

It was only the final 25km with a small group. It's a non-race.

They either race properly, or don't race at all. This isn't an Armstrong situation with his Casartelli tribute, i.e. there was no real fight for the stage or anything. I'm not even saying it was scripted (although everything up to the final 25 km was). I'm just saying it wasn't a race. Not by professional road racing standards in any case.

And I don't like the photo op either. It's not correct to have one rider with the "tribute to Gino" headlines tonight, even when he's wearing the world champ jersey. This isn't a critique towards Evenepoel per se, i.e. the same would have occurred had any rider 'won' today's stage.

If they wanted a proper win with a proper tribute, they needed to have a proper race. That's not what happened.

 

[kingjr]

Dunno. Maybe the patron and world champion is the first across the line?

That doesn't make sense to me.

 

[Barnacle Bill]

Just listened to Remco's interview, about how there had been discussions the night before and the eventual agreement that the time would be taken with 25km to go, that after that those who wanted to race would, those who didn't want to didn't have to. There are no easy answers given the differing views (and the fact the family apparently didn't want the race canceled), but although it was clearly a much reduced group who felt like competing at the end it's clear Remco was motivated to do so and was the best of that reduced group imo.

They already had a procession yesterday so I understand the point of view of those who suggest the race should have either been called off or back to normal racing, but given the teams and riders pulling out today it's also understandable that emotions were still raw. So personally I'm just going to take Remco's words at face value and appreciate his effort and his tribute.

 

[Salvarani]

It was only the final 25km with a small group. It's a non-race.

They either race properly, or don't race at all. This isn't an Armstrong situation with his Casartelli tribute, i.e. there was no real fight for the stage or anything. I'm not even saying it was scripted (although everything up to the final 25 km was). I'm just saying it wasn't a race. Not by professional road racing standards in any case.

And I don't like the photo op either. It's not correct to have one rider with the "tribute to Gino" headlines tonight, even when he's wearing the world champ jersey. This isn't a critique towards Evenepoel per se, i.e. the same would have occurred had any rider 'won' today's stage.

If they wanted a proper win with a proper tribute, they needed to have a proper race. That's not what happened.

It is shameful, that is what it is.

 

[Nick2413]

Not sure if the win was scripted but once he took off it looked like they decided to let him go.

 

[staubsauger]

Yesterday was a beautiful stage for an atrocious reason.

A parade, cycling's version of military honor, in glory of the late Gino Mäder! With his mother present and all spectators forming a honor guard and applausing!

Today always was only a day to overcome, until the final TT deciding the general classification. Since Küng & Hirschi left the race in dolor & mourning and Bisseger not likely to win tomorrow's TT Remco either felt or even promised to Sandra Mäder to win this stage in honor of Gino.

I'm fine with it. I understand that it's not the perfect situation for some. But we can all agree in the end that in a perfect situation there wouldn't be this situation.

Very nice and reflective words from Romain Bardet. Nearly writing a poem in memoriam of the late Gino Mäder.

In reference to his words I want to slightly apologize for my posts yesterday. You just look for any reasoning in something that just feels completely illogical in so many different ways!

 

[TourOfSardinia]

That's what makes it a worthy tribute: he knows he may pay for this tomorrow, but he wanted to do it anyway.

Yes all logic/philosophy is lost at time like these - as a poet once wrote:

At time of life’s
powerful breath
all transforms into a crucible of colours,
from the reins that restrain you
you step free, bent on toward destiny –
above like a bell’s the arc of the sky:
the light at its heart as red as your blood.
Your philosophy just then
is outwith the “End”
off in another realm, ungiven to tell.

 

[Lequack]

If anyone is wondering where @BR2 disappeared to, she said her goodbyes here

Goodbye

This time instead of just angrily deleting my account I would like to say goodbye to everyone I had nice discussions with and who shared watching cycling with me. It was often very nice and fun. Especially during the Corona times it was lovely to have people like you "at my side". At this point...

forum.cyclingnews.com

 

[Nick2413]

So tomorrow… Skjelmose is 8 seconds up on Gall, 18 on Ayuso, 46 on Remco. Kelderman and Bardet 1:16 and 1:29 back. Can Skjelmose hang on? I’ll go with Ayuso. Gall maybe out of the top 5…

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

So tomorrow… Skjelmose is 8 seconds up on Gall, 18 on Ayuso, 46 on Remco. Kelderman and Bardet 1:16 and 1:29 back. Can Skjelmose hang on? I’ll go with Ayuso. Gall maybe out of the top 5…

think Remco is too far. Kelderman should not be classified as a tt-er anymore as he's way too irregular on those compared to his climbing. It's basically skjelmose vs ayuso vs Remco if the latter is on a normal dayt

 

[Landeirovic]

So tomorrow… Skjelmose is 8 seconds up on Gall, 18 on Ayuso, 46 on Remco. Kelderman and Bardet 1:16 and 1:29 back. Can Skjelmose hang on? I’ll go with Ayuso. Gall maybe out of the top 5…

the 1st 17km Evenepoel will be able to take time on Skjelmose and Ayuso. but the last 8.7km I see Evenepoel losing time. 1.6km 8.2% and then another km 3-4% with then 4km of descent.

 

[houtdffan]

the 1st 17km Evenepoel will be able to take time on Skjelmose and Ayuso. but the last 8.7km I see Evenepoel losing time. 1.6km 8.2% and then another km 3-4% with then 4km of descent.

why would Evenepoel lose time on the second half? That "climb" is basically an uphill sprint. It is a short, intense burst that should favor Remco

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

I also think Evenepoel is too far, and the fact that the past 2 days were nutralised for GC, wasn't in his favor. Before the news of Mäder's horrible accident i kind of predicted he would take time back in the past 2 stages, if not with a raid, then with boniseconds. Clawing 15s back could have been enough. Now i could see him finish at 10s in GC, with the podium only 10-15s apart. He's not out of it yet, and with his Giro form i'd say kat in het bakkie, but not so much now. Additionally Ayuso and Skjelmose will start the TT fresh.

the 1st 17km Evenepoel will be able to take time on Skjelmose and Ayuso. but the last 8.7km I see Evenepoel losing time. 1.6km 8.2% and then another km 3-4% with then 4km of descent.

You think suddenly Evenepoel can't do hilly climbs anymore during a TT? This is a completely different matter as in a normal stage, where riders get to save energy behind other riders. Now Skjelmose and Ayuso also have to go balls out from the start, so they might very well lose additional time on the climbs.

 

[Landeirovic]

why would Evenepoel lose time on the second half? That "climb" is basically an uphill sprint. It is a short, intense burst that should favor Remco

because Evenepoel doesn't impress me this round when it goes uphill and certainly when the % are quite high. that piece of 8.2% are strips of 12% I see a skjelmose and Ayuso there taking time on Evenepoel. and that has to do with the form she showed this round.