A doping encyclopedia

[terribleone]

Hi guys,

I'll keep this fairly short and sweet. Just looking for feedback/ideas at the moment but already put some chapters together. I think I'm going to write an encyclopedia about doping from 1990 to modern day in the peloton.

I'm fully aware that this is a prickly subject, especially with eyes still on the sport and efforts being made to clean up but if I'm interested in that side of the sport, then other people will be too. I've asked about and there seems to be a market. Ideas and suggestions of tales, footage, superhuman performances, questionable teams and doctors, anything basically, is more than welcome.

I'd really like contribution from fans of the sport as well as riders, managers, team owners etc. I'd love honest contributions from ex and current riders (wishful thinking? ), perhaps keeping their identity secret but inside information that would give a whole picture instead of just what the press say, or just what the team PR say. I think, as fans we deserve to have the right to ask questions of riders today, not *****footing about with questions that pander to their egos anymore. I want to know what it felt like, who they felt was abusing it, who were the peloton talking about, gossipy stuff that only riders would know. I'm not sure how successful I'll be but I'm going to give it my all. Maybe a book by the fans, for the fans and you guys are some of the most knowledgable on this particular subject.

I'll then go on to highlight some particular races and events that showed that something 'else' was happening and an explanation of the drugs and what they're supposed to do.

From the Festina affair I'll look at Puerto, Manova, Freiburg, Ferrera (Ferrari etc) and the various other investigations and its findings, using extracts from books and quotes. I'm ideally looking to get in touch with a big list of ex riders, managers etc from that era, as to the response I get I'm not sure...

Any ideas, suggestions, feedback or "why are you bothering nobody will talk to you about anything" is welcomed.

Cheers.

 

[The Hitch]

You mean doping in cycling rather than doping in all sport?

If so dopeology.org already serves a similar purpose, though without the first hand approach you are suggesting

If you want to talk to pros though etc you'll need a way in though, and they are unlikely to tell you anything more than what they already told the media, if they talk at all.

 

[terribleone]

Hi Hitch,

Yes, doping in cycling. Mainly the rocket fuel that was EPO and that era.

A few people have stated dopeology which agreed is a fantastic resource however there is no character or romance about cold hard data. I'd definitely be keen to have some infographics in the book but I'd also like to add info about the characters involved, from riders to soigneurs and everywhere in-between, how the UCI was complicit in aiding and abetting this and putting particular performances under the microscope.

Agreed a lot of the info is already out there and since I'm an 'unknown' I imagine I'd have a hard time getting the inside track but that's the problem with omertà!!!

 

[Dear Wiggo]

Why do you want to do this?

 

[fmk_RoI]

Some have already tried similar ideas http://www.amazon.com/Dope-History-Performance-Enhancement-Nineteenth/dp/0313345201 (I picked that one up remaindered for a Euro).

WRT quoting from other books - do get permission, don't rely on your own interpretation of the fair use rules.

Re the UCI's complicity - will you be balancing this view by reference to what other IFs were doing at the time? The context of the complicity is pretty important.

 

[terribleone]

Why do you want to do this?

Why not? It's a fascinating period in the sport. I look at the cycling books that are out there and nothing covers this era as a whole, under one umbrella as it were. Yet its one of the most fiercely discussed aspects of the sport.

Some have already tried similar ideas http://www.amazon.com/Dope-History-Performance-Enhancement-Nineteenth/dp/0313345201 (I picked that one up remaindered for a Euro).

WRT quoting from other books - do get permission, don't rely on your own interpretation of the fair use rules.

Re the UCI's complicity - will you be balancing this view by reference to what other IFs were doing at the time? The context of the complicity is pretty important.

Appreciate your input. I've got quite a few books on doping myself but generally they cover all sports, I'm focussing on 1990 within cycling onward. I will provide a brief lowdown of the history of doping in the sport to give context of how big the leap with EPO etc was.

Thank you for the note regarding the quotations I hadn't thought about that.

Agree with you regarding the UCI. In an ideal world I'd love to quiz BC himself and his commission however I can't help but think they'll give a very political response with little that we don't already know but I'm just guessing there. That's something I definitely need to give serious thought and consult various parties on for sure.

 

[the delgados]

Hi terribleone.
Sorry, I can't contribute any valuable information, nor am I as knowledgeable as most people here. But I just wanted to say I really like your idea.
You may want to try contacting associates of Richard Vireneque (sp?) to hear stories of rampant abuse, but that's all I have, courtesy of Willy Voet's book.
Not only have I been curious to know the effects of epo, I'd like to know what it's like to go cold turkey. 'Cause you know, doping ended in 2006.
I wonder what it's like to go from breathing through your nose while climbing mountain passes at race speed to, uh, breathing through your nose while climbing mountain passes at race speed.
Also, is there a withdrawal associated with epo use? Do people get depressed when they stop using? Do they start jonesing for something that made their life so much more enjoyable?

 

[terribleone]

Hi terribleone.
Sorry, I can't contribute any valuable information, nor am I as knowledgeable as most people here. But I just wanted to say I really like your idea.
You may want to try contacting associates of Richard Vireneque (sp?) to hear stories of rampant abuse, but that's all I have, courtesy of Willy Voet's book.
Not only have I been curious to know the effects of epo, I'd like to know what it's like to go cold turkey. 'Cause you know, doping ended in 2006.
I wonder what it's like to go from breathing through your nose while climbing mountain passes at race speed to, uh, breathing through your nose while climbing mountain passes at race speed.
Also, is there a withdrawal associated with epo use? Do people get depressed when they stop using? Do they start jonesing for something that made their life so much more enjoyable?

Thanks for getting back to me delgados and glad you like the idea.

Ahhh, 'Breaking the chain'. Fantastic piece of literature! I've got it next to me as it goes, I was looking for some info earlier.

It's stories like Virenques (although I think I'd get more 'truth' from Brochard, Meier and Moreau than RV, still has his Eurosport and Festina sponsorship to consider ) & Pascal Herve, going pro at 27 saying, "it's late in my career, give me everything you've got!" to Voet that gave me the idea. And Herve wasn't shy about consumption!!! Today I was just watching Herve in the 1996 Giro where he won a stage and took pink and the difference in the accelerations etc were just phenomenal.

Although I suspect the effects weren't overnight, and given how much these guys ride anyway it was probably gradual, but it might have been a 'lightbulb moment' for someone! "Wow, my legs feel GOOOOOOOD and I've been riding all day!" When EPO was coming into fashion there were tales of Italian riders having done 12,000 training miles over winter in the early 90's!!! But to hear the effects from an experienced professional(s) would be great, citing how they felt and what they thought of it, providing an insight nothing has done previously.

I can't say about EPO withdrawal but given quite a few Masters racers have been popped recently, well, you need to give it up to experience withdrawal, and by the sounds of it those boys ain't given up nothing!!!

 

[BroDeal]

You could probably get a lot of funny stories about low level amateur doping, like getting hopped up on coffee and Mini Thins at a nearby a 7-11 before a race then dropping out ten minutes in because of fear of heart attack--not that I would know anything about such a thing.

 

[terribleone]

You could probably get a lot of funny stories about low level amateur doping, like getting hopped up on coffee and Mini Thins at a nearby a 7-11 before a race then dropping out ten minutes in because of fear of heart attack--not that I would know anything about such a thing.

Hahaha! Well it's endemic across the sport so amateurs and their, ahem, 'ghetto methods' would be a really interesting angle to hear from! I'd love it to reflect all levels, top to bottom, far and wide.

 

[vedrafjord]

If you want to pick out individual incidents as representative of a broader trend, half the Gewiss team sauntering away from the field at the 1994 Flèche Wallonne immediately followed by Ferrari's EPO orange juice comment almost deserves a chapter of its own..

 

[Benotti69]

I doubt you will find anyone currently working in cycling or cycling related activities to go on record about their or others doping.

But you may get people to talk privately but again i doubt anyone will wish to discuss doping with someone they dont know!

I remember a stage at then end of Tirreno adriactico 2 years ago when riders and teams ignored fans, got on the buses into team cars and talked to no one.

Big names like Rasmussen, Jiminez, Voet, Virenque, etc will probably want some financial incentive.

But I do recall JV saying if his riders were asked about their past doping they would have to talk, whether JV would extend that to a fan of the sport, i doubt it. But worth a shot.

I would love to see the excuses, Leipheimer, Hincapie, Barry and others would give for not talking about their doping to a fan.

 

[terribleone]

If you want to pick out individual incidents as representative of a broader trend, half the Gewiss team sauntering away from the field at the 1994 Flèche Wallonne immediately followed by Ferrari's EPO orange juice comment almost deserves a chapter of its own..

Haha, it's definitely one of the watershed moments. That chapter is either going to be called 'the Italian job' or '10 litres of orange juice'. But that's precisely the sort of thing I'm after. Jaja's transformation from pure sprinter in 94 to classics & GT winner in 95 is another I'll be focussing on.

I doubt you will find anyone currently working in cycling or cycling related activities to go on record about their or others doping.

But you may get people to talk privately but again i doubt anyone will wish to discuss doping with someone they dont know!

I remember a stage at then end of Tirreno adriactico 2 years ago when riders and teams ignored fans, got on the buses into team cars and talked to no one.

Big names like Rasmussen, Jiminez, Voet, Virenque, etc will probably want some financial incentive.

But I do recall JV saying if his riders were asked about their past doping they would have to talk, whether JV would extend that to a fan of the sport, i doubt it. But worth a shot.

I would love to see the excuses, Leipheimer, Hincapie, Barry and others would give for not talking about their doping to a fan.

Speaking honestly, in my youth I did more drugs than I care to recollect so I know more about doping than those guys really! Mind you, they've probably taken 1000 times more than I ever had! Never did try pot belge...

I know not many current athletes will but I'd like to know their thoughts on the past and how they think things are different now and evidence of this. If they don't want to talk fine, I've got no qualms about writing without their input but I'd like to ask the questions journos don't like asking. I don't care about getting blacklisted, I'm not losing anything by asking, merely giving them a chance to get their views across. Shutting up shop and pretending it never happened is the biggest load of b**locks, the peloton needs to grow a spine and confront this.

I'm not really prepared to offer people money to talk. They got paid enough money to ride whilst using banned substances so paying these people as far as I'm concerned don't need to be bunged more money to talk about that. And if people want to sue, sue me, I'm broke!

The thing that makes the whole affair stink is the fact that people aren't allowed in and the stories are published by journalists who are playing a 'keeping onside' game. To give an outsider a chance to write about this era might be the breakthrough the sport needs but I definitely know what you mean. Like I said, it won't be easy but if these people don't talk to me then they've got no chance to defend themselves or give an explanation to the people who stand by the side of the road cheering them on.

 

[DirtyWorks]

To give an outsider a chance to write about this era might be the breakthrough the sport needs but I definitely know what you mean. Like I said, it won't be easy but if these people don't talk to me then they've got no chance to defend themselves or give an explanation to the people who stand by the side of the road cheering them on.

Just a crazy idea, but why concentrate on just cycling? Go for a broader audience and add track and field, probably distance running, tennis, and swimming. Just don't do weight lifting or boxing. Everyone knows those sports are corrupt and dope fueled...

The transformations happen in most of these sports and the federations are in on maintaining them.

I'm no writer, but it seems to me if you concentrate on the lesser-named transformation miracles you'd get your doping stories without the personal attacks if you implicate a sports star.

 

[Benotti69]

Just a crazy idea, but why concentrate on just cycling? Go for a broader audience and add track and field, probably distance running, tennis, and swimming. Just don't do weight lifting or boxing. Everyone knows those sports are corrupt and dope fueled...

The transformations happen in most of these sports and the federations are in on maintaining them.

I'm no writer, but it seems to me if you concentrate on the lesser-named transformation miracles you'd get your doping stories without the personal attacks if you implicate a sports star.

I agree, cycling is a minority sport in audience terms.

Tennis is a sport crying out for its doping to be exposed and the Williams sisters should be busted!