a VIP forum?

[ebandit]

.......................

 

[Susan Westemeyer]

I agree with you 100% and would be totally against such a concept.

Susan

 

[Anonymous]

What clinic needs(and possibly some other subforums) to help knowledgeable/informed people to stay and interested (lurkers and other members) to easier get the facts are INFORMATION-only threads that would have special attention of moderators - hell, special moderator could be given the task of cleaning only such threads. Such thread would contain only information regarding the external world relevant to the thread title(that excludes opinions or similar, just raw information and let others to do the judging). That would slow down the trolls and threads would not grow as fast because only that much of information relevant to single topics is generated. The rules would also be very strict for off-topic with very little tolerance if any. All opinion based discussion could be made in separate threads that would reference information threads.
This is very similar idea to some proposal I've read somewhere here - to make special threads where only VIPs could post and others could just read. But, in this way everyone could write if (s)he has relevant information - but is subject to very strict rules and scrutiny.
Yes, that would include a decent amount of job for moderators but this is implementable with existing forum technology/software

self-quote from "This Forum Blows" thread.

I can understand the benefits of VIP forum and this idea of special threads keeps most of them while removing the perceived elitism.
You can never know where(from whom) a good information can come from in the shortest possible time.(I know, it's most probable from "VIP" members but, nevertheless, not always)

 

[RedheadDane]

I'd like to argue that this forum already is a VIP forum:

1: Every human being is a very important person
2: The users of this forum are human beings
3: Therefore this forum is a VIP forum!



Apologies if there are any aliens on this forum!

 

[Maxiton]

I'd like to argue that this forum already is a VIP forum:

1: Every human being is a very important person
2: The users of this forum are human beings
3: Therefore this forum is a VIP forum!



Apologies if there are any aliens on this forum!

+1. Or bots.

 

[Anonymous]

I'd like to argue that this forum already is a VIP forum:

1: Every human being is a very important person
2: The users of this forum are human beings
3: Therefore this forum is a VIP forum!

Apologies if there are any aliens on this forum!

Well, formally...this argument, due to its pattern of use of logic and semantics, could be considered sophism.

But in a more relaxed forum talk it's great tension breaker

Anyway, the example of when things go wrong in this forum is the BIG thread on Lance Armstrong in the clinic which exploded in size at the first information on USADA process and LA's decision not to go to CAS. I started following it at some low page number but there was no chance whatsoever to follow the discussion because the average time between two posts was way too short. I went to sleep and the next morning there were tens of new pages (maybe 40-50) in the thread. And the important information was somewhere inbetween the majority of personal reactions(fanboy defense and disbelief, hateboys gloating, trolls trolling). The thread reached 10000 posts in a very short time.
Because of such intractability people started new threads with the pretty much same topic in an attempt to convey the important information to interested members and lurkers but in a short time similar things happened there too.

This forum's admins should be proactive in order to make this forum even better. i think it is a great place to be but there is a space for improvement or at least keeping the forum at the similar level as things can change due to trolls which never sleep and gradually come with new, different strategies to make their evil ways.

 

[Susan Westemeyer]

Would you like to offer to be a mod or administrator and help? We all work full time and have only so much time to offer the forum.

Susan

ETA: It is extremely unlikely that there will ever be anything like a VIP forum or section here.

 

[Anonymous]

you talking to me..?

Would you like to offer to be a mod or administrator and help? We all work full time and have only so much time to offer the forum.

Susan

I get the hint, I'm little bit(or very much) tedious with my whining

Sorry, I don't want to be misunderstood in such a way that you would think i don't appreciate your effort - I know what the state of this forum would be if there was no team of moderators - complete chaos. You do keep a good level of order here. I was in no way implying that you don't work hard enough - in fact i think you work too hard and that can lead to exhaustion and reduced level of judgement. I know that palmerq had only that much time to go to cinema and then he worked on Lyn's case. Sure, it's hard, and you all are humans with real jobs and lives and you can allocate only a certain amount of your time and mental focus to moderating here. I myself am very busy as well(and don't really have the experience of implementing myself the policies i create) but I can offer 5h/week of moderating to CN. I know - microscopic and not enough but you could scale everything through recruiting many moderators among members you fell you can trust. If you could find 30 new moderators and if everyone could put at least 5hr/week (and i know that there are members who would be willing to do more) the whole week would be covered(probabilistically ,pretty much if you spread them well enough according to their activity times - for greater number of moderators you don't even have to be that precise).
My opinion is that the bigger number of moderators putting in smaller hours into moderating beats small number of moderators doing monstrous amount of job. Especially if the forum continues with its expansion attracting more new members and resulting in bigger number of posts per time unit.

And now after finishing this post I'm going to zip it about this topic - I feel I've said too much but hopefully i haven't offended anyone of the moderators/admins - I'm gonna play cool from now on

P.S. If you find my offer attractive we can settle it through PM.

 

[usedtobefast]

I'd like to argue that this forum already is a VIP forum:

1: Every human being is a very important person
2: The users of this forum are human beings
3: Therefore this forum is a VIP forum!



Apologies if there are any aliens on this forum!

i am with you on this!

 

[mewmewmew13]

Bad idea.

smacks of elitism like a 'champions club'

 

[the big ring]

The VIP forum already exists. It's called many names, but includes:

twitter, facebook, blogs and articles.

We are already trying to use a forum for a host of purposes to which it is not suited. A VIP forum would seek to replace the myriad of methods already present in the webosphere (listed above) with another clunky forum interface.

IMO, not a good idea.

 

[Anonymous]

I dunno.

A well moderated CN forum makes more sense to me.

No slam against the volunteers, but one generally gets what one pays for. Here you have an absolute source of (at times) cutting edge info that demonstratably makes its way to he front page of CN and yet the suits let the garbage rise to he surface time after time.

My conclusion? Things must be good, so why change?

 

[rhubroma]

Well, formally...this argument, due to its pattern of use of logic and semantics, could be considered sophism.
.

Nope, it's called a syllogism.

 

[Tinman]

The original suggestion was mine, so time to comment. Can't be bothered to retrace/repost old posts on this. However

1. original suggestion was to control posters not posts, in consideration of the fact that posts are harder to control than posters.
2. some folk here have insights and inside know how/connections that make them more valuable to read/follow than others
3. we need to give those new to doping in cycling a chance to get up on the curve, and not discourage their contributions. There's a fair bit of cyber macho here as is... a bit like gearing up for the last few km's in a road race I'd say, pushing, shoving, name calling and generally throwing one's weight around

Conclusion. Either you get trolls and newbs clogging the site or you raise the standard of moderation or you create some threads for group 2 above that they can post in, maybe on very specific topics, others can just read. I coined it a VIP thread but that seems to make some of you get on the defensive. Get over it I say. I'm not one either.

 

[Tinman]

The original suggestion was mine, so time to comment. Can't be bothered to retrace/repost old posts on this.

Did have a quick look what I posted earlier. Below was my 9th post, one week after signing up.

Mods any chance creating a part of the forum, or separate thread(s) that allows posting by "qualified" posters only, you know who they are, and read access only by others. You have built a site which is contributing to the change in cycling we need, a place where one gets the critical questions asked and some real inside scoop. As well you have created a commercial asset. Please don't allow those with possible alterior motives or other plain idiots to ruin this for you and us.

Qualification can be by identity (you as admins knowing who the poster is and the identity qualifying the poster), or by post quality over time. I'm sure you can think of other criteria.

You may also consider more active moderation, the forum is one of your major assets, the community you have created. If one had Omerta ambitions your forum would be one of the first targets, ie clog it with heaps of ****. Easy to do, create lots of identities, some with ambiguous styles, and just drown out all the good threads over time...

Please find a better way.

Yours truly, a simple cycling fan who wants to be informed (and ask questions) beyond the average journo contributions in the main stream media. Thanks.

 

[Anonymous]

Nope, it's called a syllogism.

True, syllogism and more as i mentioned.
On the extreme side, with mere syllogism I can, using arbitrary premises, infer proposition that make no sense semantically or simply don't necessarily correspond to the real state of the matters in world.

In this case it's not extreme but i'd say the first premise is little bit vague.
For example I don't consider(I think most, if not everyone, will agree) myself a very important person in the context of this forum and contribution to it - if that is what is meant with that premise.

 

[Netserk]

Would you like to offer to be a mod or administrator and help? We all work full time and have only so much time to offer the forum.

Susan

ETA: It is extremely unlikely that there will ever be anything like a VIP forum or section here.

But there is already such an option Well kinda...

 

[RedheadDane]

In this case it's not extreme but i'd say the first premise is little bit vague.
For example I don't consider(I think most, if not everyone, will agree) myself a very important person in the context of this forum and contribution to it - if that is what is meant with that premise.

Everybody is important! even those who may feel that they're just some insignificant nobody.
I wasn't talking about this forum! I was talking the entire world!

 

[Daniel Benson]

Indeed. There's no need for a VIP forum

 

[Cavalier]

Would you like to offer to be a mod or administrator and help? We all work full time and have only so much time to offer the forum.

I'm sure there would be a lot of people willing to assist Susan, but I don't think people asking for positions are necessarily the ones you want in that role. They should be offered to individuals who display the characteristics required of the position.

 

[Tinman]

Indeed. There's no need for a VIP forum

Well I guess that settled that one then... Little need to continue this discussion. Everyone is equal with no-one more equal than any one else

(Am I allowed to ask if this now holds for Papp also? Is he still as Very Important as all of us? And Polish?) just joking...

Seriously though: Thanks MP4 for investing the personal time with your suggestions to make this place better for all of us (DB take note - you may learn something)... Hopefully the trolling episode and subsequent discussions have also generated some learnings...

 

[Froome19]

I think you will find that this is what many people are looking for:

http://www.velorooms.com

It may not have the extensive range of topics and discussion in the clinic which CN has, but many senior members of CN who are the people ,who have been referred to in this thread, post regularly on there and considering that it is still a small forum it is obviously draws parallels with the suggestion here.

If members consider the forum to be a place which is respected and to contain solely cycling discussin which will add value then members who want to disrupt that will feel out of place. Unfortunately that is something which is becoming less and less of a factor on this forum and it leads to the problems expressed above.

Concerning CN, there is obviously a lot of inane conversations currently which mar the quality of the discussion. I dont see any obvious way of fixing the problem, moderation can not get rid of the posts in question because a) they are everywhere and b) because there is nothing discernibly wrong with them. An increase in moderators would be advisable imo, it can only have a positive impact and having posters who are on here frequently and therefore can trawl threads for, what is becoming ever increasing, problematic posts can only be beneficial imo.

 

[Tinman]

I dont see any obvious way of fixing the problem, moderation can not get rid of the posts in question

exactly what lead me to suggest focus on controlling posters (via a "by invitation only" thread section - forget the VIP connotation...).

Will check out veloroom. But unless all key people migrate you will only cause a break up of the virtual discussion group and achieve the LA/UCI agenda to close this thing down. So either here on the clinic or anywhere you need admins to set a structure in place to better deal with this issue.

And that is what LA/UCI's agencies clearly understand...

For now suggest to retain some tolerance and retain what we are here for. (Presumably) to share and interpret the news around doping and build public pressure to rid it from cycling.

 

[Netserk]

How to make a 'VIP-forum':

1. Create a social group and give it a name

2. Invite those you want to be able to post there

3. Create a thread in the social group forum

4. Discuss there

Now you have a mini forum where only invited can posts, and that is still public so that everyone on the forum can read the posts.

Problem solved

 

[ElChingon]

Wait, no champagne, no scantly clothed young attractive women (or men, what ever floats your boat)?

Somehow my version of VIP and your version are off by a lot!