Accepting medals/trophies after the winner is dq'd for doping?

[dsut4392]

Bobby J recently had this to say about moving up a step following Hamilton handing back his Athens TT gold medal:
” Mick Rogers was fourth in Athens and he’s on Sky too. Last week he was asking about his bronze medal “

Look, I have NO evidence or inside knowledge that Rogers is a doper (after all he’s an Aussie, and seems like a nice guy so he must be clean, no?), but all the alarm bells are ringing, him being a veteran of such notable anti-doping teams such as the AIS squad, then Mapei, offsider to Virenque on Quick-Step, then to T-Mobile.

Him having gone from super-dom in 2006 TDF (arguably looking stronger than Kloden), and outright threat in 2007 TDF, to completely disappearing for a couple of years after [strike]Freiburg broke[/strike] he caught mononucleosis.

Does Rogers really think he has lain low long enough to pull this off again, having already got his first worlds TT gold that way (following Millar’s sanction)? Back in 2003 the “a few bad apples” line was still fresh enough that many fans could believe that there were clean winners, but today?

Bobby J isn’t asking for his Olympic silver, Dodger should just let sleeping dogs lie IMO.

Your thoughts?

Of course this doesn't apply to Schlecklet and TDF 2010 as Frandy are definitely clean, Fuentes training plans notwithstanding...

 

[BroDeal]

Without opening the thread, just reading the title, I thought of Rogers.

Rogers has some nerve if he is asking about "his" bronze medal. He was on the 2006 T-Mobile Tour squad that got blood transfusions at the beginning of the race. The T-Mobile Tour team for 2006 was a joke. Kessler, Kloden, Sinkewitz, Mazzoleni, Gonchar, Rogers, and Guerini.

If he had any integrity he would give Millar back his title.

With scum this shameless there is no hope for the sport.

Props to Julich, given his history, for taking the honorable path through a tricky situation.

 

[ElChingon]

Anyone wanting a post medal/win/3rd Place spot/2nd Place Loser pin is pretty sad, sure they should take the money if its available but never ever seek to have a photo opp post years of said race with the award in street clothes with a generic background in the photo opp. Just go away and hope you can get the cash and end it there.

The race movie still has you losing so explain the medal when that's shown. Not the most honorable way of showing a pretend win.

 

[MarkvW]

Of course you accept the win and the recognition. By rejecting the win, you dishonor the sport.

If you don't honor the sport enough to accept the win, WTF are you participating in the sport in the first place?

 

[Race Radio]

Bobby is playing it smart. He must know by now there is a good chance he will lose his medal. It's not like he was running on just water that day

 

[Wigwan]

I always thought that they shouldn't give the first place to the second if the winner is caught doping. If you look at the 06 Tour, if Landis wasn't there to let a breakaway have more than 30 minutes, Pereiro wouldn't be the winner. Same thing with Contador last year. We don't know how the race would have finished without him.

Olympics and Worlds TT are different though since they're race alone riders don't affect each other.

 

[Oldman]

Bobby is playing it smart. He must know by now there is a good chance he will lose his medal. It's not like he was running on just water that day

Very, Very HOT water.

 

[131313]

Bobby is playing it smart. He must know by now there is a good chance he will lose his medal. It's not like he was running on just water that day

I seriously doubt it. Do you really think USADA will have there stuff together by August when the statue of limitations runs out? Doubtful. They're too busy busting Masters guys. I mean, they have to at least wait until Kona is over, right? Maybe, just maybe Julich still has a tiny bit of conscious left and realizes how ridiculous it would be for him to accept a silver medal?

 

[benzwire]

Bobby is playing it smart. He must know by now there is a good chance he will lose his medal. It's not like he was running on just water that day

They have until end of August to retro test the Athens samples, right?
I'm a big fan of Julich, but have no illusion that he was any cleaner than anyone else that day.

 

[Race Radio]

No need for a test, direct witness testimony.

He should just hand his medal back now and tell his story. Save everyone the time and effort.

You have to go pretty far down that last to find the first clean rider that year.

 

[Race Radio]

I mean, they have to at least wait until Kona is over, right?

Not sure what you are referring to here, but the revolution will not be televised. Don't expect to hear about any action on Wonderboy until months/years later

 

[fatsprintking]

Bobby J recently had this to say about moving up a step following Hamilton handing back his Athens TT gold medal:
” Mick Rogers was fourth in Athens and he’s on Sky too. Last week he was asking about his bronze medal “

Look, I have NO evidence or inside knowledge that Rogers is a doper (after all he’s an Aussie, and seems like a nice guy so he must be clean, no?), but all the alarm bells are ringing, him being a veteran of such notable anti-doping teams such as the AIS squad, then Mapei, offsider to Virenque on Quick-Step, then to T-Mobile.

Him having gone from super-dom in 2006 TDF (arguably looking stronger than Kloden), and outright threat in 2007 TDF, to completely disappearing for a couple of years after [strike]Freiburg broke[/strike] he caught mononucleosis.

Does Rogers really think he has lain low long enough to pull this off again, having already got his first worlds TT gold that way (following Millar’s sanction)? Back in 2003 the “a few bad apples” line was still fresh enough that many fans could believe that there were clean winners, but today?

Bobby J isn’t asking for his Olympic silver, Dodger should just let sleeping dogs lie IMO.

Your thoughts?

Of course this doesn't apply to Schlecklet and TDF 2010 as Frandy are definitely clean, Fuentes training plans notwithstanding...

Jeez somtimes the story just gets twisted out of all proportion. My understanding is that Rogers was asked about wining the bronze in the context of Andy Schlek being giving the tour win. He stated that you could never make up for not being on the podium for the ceremony and gave the impression that any retrospective change to the results did not really mean much. Rather than having a go at Rogers, I thought Julich was pretty much just saying the same thing - what you have after the race is what you remember and a change years down the track will not change that.

Find me some quotes that show Rogers sooking about wanting his bronze medal and I am happy to be proven wrong. The Russian and Australian federations playing politics over medals does not count - they know medals = funding money and so they will take advantage of any situation.

 

[sheenyp]

I always thought that they shouldn't give the first place to the second if the winner is caught doping. If you look at the 06 Tour, if Landis wasn't there to let a breakaway have more than 30 minutes, Pereiro wouldn't be the winner. Same thing with Contador last year. We don't know how the race would have finished without him.

Olympics and Worlds TT are different though since they're race alone riders don't affect each other.

I really don't think it's always that simple. Take last years World TT, Cancellara was clearly racing for first taking all sorts of risks at the end and hence he ended up behind Wiggins, pretty sure if he'd raced to beat Wiggins he would have done.

Now, if Tony Martin gets popped (I'm not saying he is going to or have any information or suspicions so just in a hypothetical sense) then Wiggins gets Gold, but without Martin in the race I'm sure Cancellara would have got gold.

 

[spalco]

Bobby is playing it smart. He must know by now there is a good chance he will lose his medal. It's not like he was running on just water that day

Regardless, his statement makes complete sense to me from an emotional point of view.

 

[ElChingon]

Jeez somtimes the story just gets twisted out of all proportion. My understanding is that Rogers was asked about wining the bronze in the context of Andy Schlek being giving the tour win. He stated that you could never make up for not being on the podium for the ceremony and gave the impression that any retrospective change to the results did not really mean much. Rather than having a go at Rogers, I thought Julich was pretty much just saying the same thing - what you have after the race is what you remember and a change years down the track will not change that.

Find me some quotes that show Rogers sooking about wanting his bronze medal and I am happy to be proven wrong. The Russian and Australian federations playing politics over medals does not count - they know medals = funding money and so they will take advantage of any situation.

Yes, if cycling is pulled from being a medal sport to en exabition sport those medals should be given to the sport that missed out on being a medal sport, right.

 

[hrotha]

Wasn't Rogers working with Ferrari, or did I dream that up?

 

[Ferminal]

pre-Freiburg I think.

 

[Benotti69]

Wasn't Rogers working with Ferrari, or did I dream that up?

Might be why he got a ride with Sky

 

[131313]

Not sure what you are referring to here, but the revolution will not be televised. Don't expect to hear about any action on Wonderboy until months/years later

What I'm getting at is that Julich has absolutely nothing to worry about with respect to his Olympic medal.

As far as the revolution not being televised, there isn't going to be a revolution. All that's being done is that a clear message is being sent. That message is basically "yeah, we may bust you for doping, but it'll be so long after the fact that no one will care". So, by the time we hear about a fully juiced Wiggans winning the 2012 Tour, it'll be 2026 and the story will be something along the lines of "but that was then, this is now. Things have changed".

Sorry, but there was chance to actually make some positive change from the whole Postal debacle, but that chance is simply drifting away. The message being sent is that you can cheat with impunity, and by the time we catch you it won't matter anyway. Just like all the since-outed dopers who still have their place in cycling.

Good luck with your revolution.

 

[BroDeal]

Find me some quotes that show Rogers sooking about wanting his bronze medal and I am happy to be proven wrong. The Russian and Australian federations playing politics over medals does not count - they know medals = funding money and so they will take advantage of any situation.

He says he is "angry" about not being able to stand on the podium in front of his family. That does not sound like the words of someone who would rather let sleeping dogs lie

 

[Zinoviev Letter]

As a general principle, ff someone is disqualified for breaking the rules, whether by doping or by breaching the rules in some other way, then it is completely correct that the people behind move up a place. It's no different to a stage winner being disqualified for, say, dangerous sprinting.

Also as a general principle, any rider who accepts an improved place while knowing that they were cheating in the same way themselves is a hypocrite.

 

[RedheadDane]

Wasn't Rogers working with Ferrari, or did I dream that up?

Eeeh... who exactly are you talking about? Because I have a suspicion it's not Roberto 'I Kept My Line' Ferrari...

 

[Caruut]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michele_Ferrari

 

[dsut4392]

Jeez somtimes the story just gets twisted out of all proportion. My understanding is that Rogers was asked about wining the bronze in the context of Andy Schlek being giving the tour win. He stated that you could never make up for not being on the podium for the ceremony and gave the impression that any retrospective change to the results did not really mean much. Rather than having a go at Rogers, I thought Julich was pretty much just saying the same thing - what you have after the race is what you remember and a change years down the track will not change that.

Find me some quotes that show Rogers sooking about wanting his bronze medal and I am happy to be proven wrong. The Russian and Australian federations playing politics over medals does not count - they know medals = funding money and so they will take advantage of any situation.

Pity that context was lost in the CN article, I took Julich's quote on face value, which basically boiled down to "I don't want my silver but Mick would like his bronze". Seeing as Julich works closely with Rogers on Sky, he seemed to be a pretty reliable source.

Government funding for elite sports (let alone elite sports 'played' by professional athletes) is just wrong on so many levels, even before you get into the cesspit of corruption that is the IOC and national olympic federations.

 

[Zam_Olyas]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michele_Ferrari

And here http://www.dopeology.org/people/Michele_Ferrari/