AG2R withraws from Criterium due to Giro Positive

[lemoogle]

So AG2R is sanctioning the whole team after Sylvain George tested positive during the Giro.

http://velonews.competitor.com/2013/05/news/ag2r-la-mondiale-withdraws-from-criterium-du-dauphine-to-honor-mpcc-rules_288073

I think it's a pretty impressive move when the criterium is such an important preparation to the tour.

 

[taiwan]

Commendable.

 

[Big Doopie]

Big Doopie wonders if Moviestar, Astana, Saxo, Katusha, etc. would do the same.

Big Doopie points out that this was a rhetorical question.

Big Doopie appreciates the further proof that as nations go things are not equal in clinicdom.

Wonder how the clinic crazies will spin this one. (Big Doopie actually doesn't care)

 

[the sceptic]

What happened to your theory that french teams dont dope?

 

[The Hitch]

Big Doopie asked in the mid 2000's whether ONCE, CSC, Telekom, Rabobank, Banesto. were doping

Big Doopie pointed out it was a rhetorical question.

Big Doopie got angry when people asked him if US Postal doped. He never said anything about that. He only wanted to talk about all those other teams and express his outrage at them doping.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Ag2r are doing this as part of the MPCC if I recall correctly, it's something that was marked in as a 'sanction' for a second positive in a 12-month period (after Houanard). They have to miss the next World Tour race to begin, which in this case is the Dauphiné (especially painful to Ag2r as it's a local race to them).

However, how this sits with the UCI's rule that all World Tour teams must attend World Tour events has yet to be clarified.

 

[Big Doopie]

What happened to your theory that french teams dont dope?

French teams don't. Which this news demonstrates.

Compare this with Saxos approval of kreuziger seeing Ferrari.

This is just one instance in a long history from Festina on that French riders on French teams have had a much harder time doping than other nations. This is simply fact.

Big Doolie rejoices at this news because it is a good anti-doping story. He also rejoices because it (once again) heralds Big Doopie's logic and acuity when confronted with the meaningless blather of the clinic PC devotees.

Big Doopie thanks The Septic for giving him this opportunity to do a victory dance!

 

[gooner]

French teams don't. Which this news demonstrates.

Compare this with Saxos approval of kreuziger seeing Ferrari.

This is just one instance in a long history from destination on that French riders on French teams have had a much harder time doping than other nations. This is simply fact.

Big Doolie rejoices at this news because it is a good anti-doping story. He also rejoices because it (once again) heralds Big Doopie's logic and acuity when confronted with the meaningless blather of the clinic PC devotees.

Big Doopie thanks The Septic for giving him this opportunity to do a victory dance!

That happened at Liquigas.

 

[Big Doopie]

Big Doopie got angry when people asked him if US Postal doped. He never said anything about that. He only wanted to talk about all those other teams and express his outrage at them doping.

Oh hitch baby Big Doopie feels so sorry for you. Because you just lost all credibility by not doing a little research.

If you had you would find out that Big Doopie is and has been one of the no-holds bars haters of Armstrong and us postal at every turn. Big Doopie left DP because they could not handle the truth. Big Doopie is one of the only ones to actually post on this very forum that he hates sociopath Armstrong for what he did to Big Doopie's beloved sport of cycling. Big Doopie was even contacted by Betsy Andreu in the early days because he was one of the voices of truth in the wilderness.

So hitch your post is a complete and utter fail.

Once again you simply are incapable of handling anything outside the pre-ordained box that you live in.

Big Doopie is sorry hitch but your post makes you look absolutely ridiculous.

 

[brilleaben]

I'm sorry hitch but your post makes you look absolutely ridiculous.

Takes one to know one.

 

[blackcat]

Big Doopie wonders if Moviestar, Astana, Saxo, Katusha, etc. would do the same.

Big Doopie points out that this was a rhetorical question.

Big Doopie appreciates the further proof that as nations go things are not equal in clinicdom.

Wonder how the clinic crazies will spin this one. (Big Doopie actually doesn't care)

3rd person ftw

 

[Big Doopie]

3rd person ftw

A tip of the hat to you too, blackcat.

 

[The Hitch]

The point was not about whether or not you supported armstrong ( i have no way of knowing what you thought 10 years ago).

It was a parody of your own post for the purpose of ridiculing your current positions - going out of your way to criticise some riders, yet downright refuse to even aknowledge the suspicion, of riders who fit these same discriptions and standards perfectly.

 

[Ferminal]

Lucky it doesn't affect Potsy's calendar.

 

[Samson777]

A bit strange move I think. I don't really get the point..

How can it be the whole teams mistake that this no name french guy is doping? Is this a signal to the rest of the team, that they should get off the juice? And the team have knowledge about their own personal juicing, should they not punish them? I mean, after all french teams don't dope, right...

 

[Ferminal]

That's the MPCC for you.

Punishment is not for doping but for not being sophisticated enough to not have anyone test positive. A team with well established doping channels and supervision for their riders is a lot safer than one which does nothing, leaving individuals to find their own way.

In the case of Hounard anyway, who is rare in being a top level rider testing positive for EPO. The Georges case seems a bit more complicated.

 

[Big Doopie]

A bit strange move I think. I don't really get the point..

How can it be the whole teams mistake that this no name french guy is doping? Is this a signal to the rest of the team, that they should get off the juice? And the team have knowledge about their own personal juicing, should they not punish them? I mean, after all french teams don't dope, right...

Fair question.

I think the intention is to force team members in a sense to police each other.

It looks to make the pressure on the riders be "hey if you or I dope we are risking our livelihood."

on other teams we know the reverse is true.

Feel free to disagree with the results. But that is the intention. A smart and noble one in my opinion.

 

[babastooey]

1. Why not pull out of the Giro instead? How many days of racing are left? (sorry, I haven't really been following the Giro.) Wouldn't that accomplish the same thing?

2. He claims it was another one of those "didn't read the package" fouls. And yet, he claimed he was taking something to improve the circulation in his legs. Yeah, no crap sherlock! It sounds like the thing he wanted to do was cheat. I have to give the guy points for openly admitting it.

 

[Samson777]

That's the MPCC for you.

Punishment is not for doping but for not being sophisticated enough to not have anyone test positive. A team with well established doping channels and supervision for their riders is a lot safer than one which does nothing, leaving individuals to find their own way.

In the case of Hounard anyway, who is rare in being a top level rider testing positive for EPO. The Georges case seems a bit more complicated.

Yes i see. That seems to bee the law in pro cycling, do what you want, except being caught.
Would bee interesting to see other MPPC teams in similar situation, let's say Katusha have two guys failing doping test 5 days before the tour, would they tell Rodriguez to stay home then? Probably they would. Ekimov is anti doping, if anybody is

 

[gooner]

1. Why not pull out of the Giro instead? How many days of racing are left? (sorry, I haven't really been following the Giro.) Wouldn't that accomplish the same thing?

2. He claims it was another one of those "didn't read the package" fouls. And yet, he claimed he was taking something to improve the circulation in his legs. Yeah, no crap sherlock! It sounds like the thing he wanted to do was cheat. I have to give the guy points for openly admitting it.

Betancur is in the white jersey. He shouldn't suffer for Georges or Houanard's mistakes especially as one of them happened when he wasn't even on the team.

 

[Samson777]

Fair question.

I think the intention is to force team members in a sense to police each other.

It looks to make the pressure on the riders be "hey if you or I dope we are risking our livelihood."

on other teams we know the reverse is true.

Feel free to disagree with the results. But that is the intention. A smart and noble one in my opinion.

I would assume, the reality in pro cycling is more like " hey if you and I don't dope, we are risking our livelihood." But off course we do not know, maybe it was just in the dark past. Maybe today pro cycling really is a place for a word like noble

 

[babastooey]

Betancur is in the white jersey. He shouldn't suffer for Georges or Houanard's mistakes especially as one of them happened when he wasn't even on the team.

And which riders who aren't going to start the Dauphine Libere are going to suffer? The riders who may have won a stage from the breakaway, or perhaps wore the mountains jersey for a day or two?

I suppose they already know they have something with the guy in the white jersey but it would be funny if in the alternate timeline Ag2r ends up lighting up the Dauphine.

And then of course there is the darkest timeline, where 7 time Tour winner Lance Armstrong is President of the United States and Greg Lemond lives in a dungeon....and Jeff Winger is missing an arm.

 

[gooner]

And which riders who aren't going to start the Dauphine Libere are going to suffer? The riders who may have won a stage from the breakaway, or perhaps wore the mountains jersey for a day or two?

I suppose they already know they have something with the guy in the white jersey but it would be funny if in the alternate timeline Ag2r ends up lighting up the Dauphine.

And then of course there is the darkest timeline, where 7 time Tour winner Lance Armstrong is President of the United States and Greg Lemond lives in a dungeon....and Jeff Winger is missing an arm.

There's no reason for them to pull out of the Giro. This isn't like Moreni getting caught resulting with Cofidis leaving the Tour. Georges has tested positive for a "specified substance" and so therefore it's not as clear cut.

 

[Dazed and Confused]

I think its a good idea if we get a broad UCI based rule where teams are punished (in some way) when their riders tests positive.

Yes, there are plenty of sophisticated "doping under the radar" team schemes, but we gotta start somewhere in terms of driving the right "culture".

 

[L'arriviste]

1. Why not pull out of the Giro instead? How many days of racing are left? (sorry, I haven't really been following the Giro.) Wouldn't that accomplish the same thing?

There's no reason for them to pull out of the Giro. This isn't like Moreni getting caught resulting with Cofidis leaving the Tour. Georges has tested positive for a "specified substance" and so therefore it's not as clear cut.

The MPCC rules, to which all member teams voluntarily agree, state among other things that a team will not pull out of a World Tour event already in progress (Rule 10).

However, a team will be required to suspend itself from racing for a period of either eight days or four weeks depending on the number of violations occurring in the team within 12 or 24 months respectively. The former case applies to AG2R (Rule 10 Case #1).

The rules are only available, afaik, in French, so I translated them in a recent blog post:

http://www.mikepadgett.com/cycling/they-like-their-credibility/