Albasini racist?

[Libertine Seguros]

I think we've probably reached the point where we're going to starting going in circles.

A racist to me is someone who considers various races to be either superior or inferior to each other and/or treats people from different races differently based on that.

Like I said before I don't think you can actually tell whether Albasini genuinely believes that, just because he called Reza what he did.

If he did believe that, I'd call him a racist.

So how do you tell what he believes, if what he says and does (including calling black people "dirty n!ggers") does not give an indication of this? What would a person have to say or do in order for you to consider them racist? And how many racist actions are required before the tag would be applied?

 

[Netserk]

So how do you tell what he believes, if what he says and does (including calling black people "dirty n!ggers") does not give an indication of this? What would a person have to say or do in order for you to consider them racist? And how many racist actions are required before the tag would be applied?

If the person has demonstrated (or declared) that the person holds racist views.

 

[deValtos]

So how do you tell what he believes, if what he says and does (including calling black people "dirty n!ggers") does not give an indication of this? What would a person have to say or do in order for you to consider them racist? And how many racist actions are required before the tag would be applied?

Figuring out what another person believes can range from very easy to nearly impossible. I can't give you a checklist, I can't tell you how many actions are required ... how does anyone truly know what another person is thinking ?

I guess you can have a pretty damn good opinion though.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Figuring out what another person believes can range from very easy to nearly impossible. I can't give you a checklist, I can't tell you how many actions are required ... how does anyone truly know what another person is thinking ?

I guess you can have a pretty damn good opinion though.

I think "considering it ok to call a black person a 'dirty n!gger' in public" is a good indicator, personally. As Netserk points out above, they could theoretically call a black person that without actually being a racist. They could theoretically do so, but they also advise that they wouldn't. And that, if they did, people would have very good reason for thinking them racist.

The latter point is why most people wouldn't actually do so. It would take somebody pretty monumentally dumb to not recognise that risk, so it suggests Albasini is either monumentally dumb, or voicing their genuine opinion.

 

[deValtos]

I think "considering it ok to call a black person a 'dirty n!gger' in public" is a good indicator, personally. As Netserk points out above, they could theoretically call a black person that without actually being a racist. They could theoretically do so, but they also advise that they wouldn't. And that, if they did, people would have very good reason for thinking them racist.

The latter point is why most people wouldn't actually do so. It would take somebody pretty monumentally dumb to not recognise that risk, so it suggests Albasini is either monumentally dumb, or voicing their genuine opinion.

That's essentially all I've been arguing. I agree with everything else you have to say here.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

That's essentially all I've been arguing. I agree with everything else you have to say here.

So you agree that Albasini is essentially racist?

Because otherwise you are suggesting he is not racist, but is so monumentally stupid he doesn't realise that people will see it as racist if he intentionally racially abuses a black rider.

 

[Jspear]

If the person has demonstrated (or declared) that the person holds racist views.

Generally whatever is in your heart comes out in what you say.

 

[deValtos]

So you agree that Albasini is essentially racist?

Because otherwise you are suggesting he is not racist, but is so monumentally stupid he doesn't realise that people will see it as racist if he intentionally racially abuses a black rider.

My position has always been that I don't think we can tell whether Albasini is racist just based on what he said Reza.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

I still want to know why somebody who wasn't racist or a complete and utter imbecile would say those words in that context.

 

[Netserk]

I still want to know why somebody who wasn't racist or a complete and utter imbecile would say those words in that context.

To abuse him enough so that he would take a pull? (perhaps that falls under the stupid category)

 

[MarkvW]

It doesn't matter how Albasini is labeled. Call him whatever label you want.

The problem is that Albasini's behavior creates a hostile work environment for one dark skinned person in particular and sends a "you are not welcome" message to other dark skinned people. In a business that lives off of sponsorships, that ought to be intolerable. But this is the UCI--a little club made up of good old boys who treat most of the peloton like disposable serfs. Nothing's going to happen.

 

[deValtos]

I still want to know why somebody who wasn't racist or a complete and utter imbecile would say those words in that context.

Find Albasini and ask him. Or find someone else who has done the same thing and ask them. Because he's not a nice person ? Some people who are not nice just want to inflict harm on others, I don't think they necessarily care about what impact using those terms has, if they did they'd probably be a nice person.

Just for the record, irrespective of whether Albasini is racist or not, he is an utter imbecile for saying those words to Reza. It's not a private conversation, he severely damages his image and potentially his career. Even if he is a racist it's a monumentally stupid thing to do, it's not one or the other.

 

[gazzli]

Keep Calm...
Albasini only said "F....ng A..hole"!
http://www.blick.ch/sport/rad/albas...-ich-habe-nur-arschloch-gesagt-id3008350.html

 

[Sciocco]

Keep Calm...
Albasini only said "F....ng A..hole"!
http://www.blick.ch/sport/rad/albas...-ich-habe-nur-arschloch-gesagt-id3008350.html

Interesting twist to this, thank you for the link.

If Albasini only called him a "****ing *******" than why was "dirty ******" reported?

 

[kingjr]

Interesting twist to this, thank you for the link.

If Albasini only called him a "****ing *******" than why was "dirty ******" reported?

Because it's a great story. Just look at this thread.

 

[TourOfTexas]

If Albasini did say those racist comments, he should, at the very least, be put into a concentration camp until we can come up with a final solution to this type of speech.

 

[hrotha]

Interesting twist to this, thank you for the link.

If Albasini only called him a "****ing *******" than why was "dirty ******" reported?

No twist. Albasini's version of the exchange was known from the beginning. Doesn't mean it's what happened.

At any rate, the discussion here has always been about the alleged racial slur in itself. Whether or not he actually said it has little to do with the discussion.

 

[Jerkovin]

People are still talking about "intent", it seems. For one, I don't see how anyone could use those words yet turn around and say and "I'm not racist".

Once again, being a racist doesn't just mean being a card-carrying KKK member or sitting at home and spouting "racist views". That's only a minute part of it.

Racism is mostly seen through subconscious actions. For example, when I've gone into a shop with black friends, the shopkeeper will almost always follow my friend around or keep a special eye on him as if he's going to steal something. There have been times where black friends a few meters up the road have been stopped and searched by police while me and other white people of the exact same age have barely been looked at.

There was also one time when I went out to help my black friend hand out CVs (resumes). The store I had successfully handed mine into a day earlier told my black friend that they weren't hiring. 10 minutes later on the way back, I decided to hand his CV in myself. The same person who rejected it took it with no fuss.

In the end, although my friend was a smart-*** with better grades than me, I got a few interviews from that while he didn't get a single job interview until he started using his European middle name as his first name rather than his African first name.

I don't even have that many black friends yet these things happen so often and it's so plain to see what's going on.

Do all these people sit around thinking "racist views"? I doubt it. But that's their thought process. Just as, if these comments are true, it was Albasini's thought process to use a racial slur rather than the million other phrases that specifically exist in order to insult somebody. For anyone not racist, racial slurs and discrimination shouldn't even be part of the equation.

 

[phanatic]

Keep Calm...
Albasini only said "F....ng A..hole"!
http://www.blick.ch/sport/rad/albas...-ich-habe-nur-arschloch-gesagt-id3008350.html

Was it in English or some other language with different connotations?

 

[RedheadDane]

...Do all these people sit around thinking "racist views"? I doubt it. But that's their thought process. Just as, if these comments are true, it was Albasini's thought process to use a racial slur rather than the million other phrases that specifically exist in order to insult somebody. For anyone not racist, racial slurs and discrimination shouldn't even be part of the equation.

Is it completely unthinkable that this whole mess means that Albasini has realised how wrong that comment was, and he simply won't be using it anymore?

As for why he used that specific racial slur, rather than some other "neutral" slur: From what I understood he was - justified or not - really ****ed off at Reza, maybe he just - rather stupidly - jumped to the expression that would be the most hurtful.

 

[Jerkovin]

Is it completely unthinkable that this whole mess means that Albasini has realised how wrong that comment was, and he simply won't be using it anymore?

As for why he used that specific racial slur, rather than some other "neutral" slur: From what I understood he was - justified or not - really ****ed off at Reza, maybe he just - rather stupidly - jumped to the expression that would be the most hurtful.

My entire point of that long-*** post is that this type of language should not even be an option. It shouldn't even come to mind. If it did, it reflects horrendously on his character and his innate thoughts, regardless of him not hating black people. Racism isn't black and white (and this is not a pun).

And as for the possibility of him realising it was wrong, who knows. But, if he did make a racial slur (and we don't know), him reacting to it by claiming that nothing racist was said gives us no reason to believe that.

 

[RedheadDane]

(1)My entire point of that long-*** post is that this type of language should not even be an option. It shouldn't even come to mind. If it did, it reflects horrendously on his character and his innate thoughts, regardless of him not hating black people. Racism isn't black and white (and this is not a pun).

(2)And as for the possibility of him realising it was wrong, who knows. But, if he did make a racial slur (and we don't know), him reacting to it by claiming that nothing racist was said gives us no reason to believe that.

(1): Problem is; you don't really think when you're angry. He might have come up with an equally hurtful slur against a squeaky-white (Swiss) rider.

(2): Maybe his claiming that 'nothing resist was said' was just a - rather poor - way of saying I didn't mean anything by it!

Also; let's not forget that Albasini has had a black team-mate. If he had those 'innate thoughts' about black people, don't you think it would've come earlier?

 

[Angliru]

(1): Problem is; you don't really think when you're angry. He might have come up with an equally hurtful slur against a squeaky-white (Swiss) rider.

(2): Maybe his claiming that 'nothing resist was said' was just a - rather poor - way of saying I didn't mean anything by it!

Also; let's not forget that Albasini has had a black team-mate. If he had those 'innate thoughts' about black people, don't you think it would've come earlier?

Not unless that black team-mate angered him on a similar level. The fact that out of all available options he had to choose from at that particular moment he optioned for a racial insult says a great deal about his character. At minimum he has anger control issues and he is obviously in need of some serious sensitivity training. That should be mandatory.

 

[Angliru]

If the person has demonstrated (or declared) that the person holds racist views.

Is not by calling someone a racial slur a demonstration?

 

[Jerkovin]

(1): Problem is; you don't really think when you're angry. He might have come up with an equally hurtful slur against a squeaky-white (Swiss) rider.

(2): Maybe his claiming that 'nothing resist was said' was just a - rather poor - way of saying I didn't mean anything by it!

Also; let's not forget that Albasini has had a black team-mate. If he had those 'innate thoughts' about black people, don't you think it would've come earlier?

But even when angry and not thinking rationally, I don't see why that should be a viable option. When calm, people shouldn't have to think "oh, 'dirty negro' is offensive. I probably should say it." I don't understand why it would be a phrase that forms in someone's thoughts.

And that's a bit like someone saying they have black friends when accused of racism.