Teams & Riders Alberto Contador Discussion Thread

[Angliru]

Re:

Just checked Jens attacks blog for ascent times today, in fact Contador climbed today 30 sec. faster than in 2014 and in the same time as 2012. Quintana was stratospheric and Froome climbed 1 minute and 16 seconds faster than in 2012 and 2014. Food for thought.

That is good to know. Not that I had thought less of Contador for his performance in the first place but it does put it all into perspective.

 

[Matteo.]

Re: Re:

Come on taxus. Similar level of 2014...you don't believe even wheelAnd even his worse haters

He droped Froome in la Camperona,in 2014 wasFroomewho droped Contador, so...

But I am saying along this 2 years than to climb Farrapona at Froome wheel, or even Ancares, becouse it has a lonng false flat, i tis a good advantage... I am sure than today if Contador just try to follow Froome, he would have done it, the same tha in 2014. The difference this year is that Contador lost time in the TTT and that Quitana is there.I can admit than without the crash he could be a little bit better this days, but just a little.

In la farrapona i'm pretty sure froome attacked after the flat section. Almost in the last 6 kms. Reading your post , it seems Alberto beated Froome only because he sucked his wheel. In 1998 on montecampione , tonkov always sucked Pantani's wheel but at the end the russian was dropped . So pantani was the strongest as alberto was in 2014 because froome could not drop him

 

[Flamin]

Re: Re:

And why should Contador have been the favorite for this race? Based on his Daughine, he would have needed a significant increase in performance at the Tour to have been in contention for yellow. True, we don't know the actual status of his form at the Tour, because of the crashes, however, something tells me he wasn't up to it. Now the Vuelta, after crashes and abandoning the Tour, against riders who finished the Tour and so have benefited from the fitness that the Tour brings, what next. On the other hand they could be tired, could fade in the third week. But can we really expect that in today's cycling?

I don't see why a Contador who crashed out of the Tour in dubious condition, should have at all been considered the favorite in this race against the likes of riders who finished the Tour as its protagonists. Especially at this stage in his career.

He didn't ride for 3 weeks in France and his injuries weren't that bad. He already rode again in San Sebastian so it was reasonable to think he will be near his best in the Vuelta. Meanwhile Froome rode Rio and considering his Vuelta performance 2012 it makes sense to think he will fade, while the gc riders who didn't ride the tour usually just aren't on Contadors level and I still don't believe Chaves can finish in front of Contador. The two riders who have already performed very well in back to back gt's are Valverde and Quintana, but Valverde already rode the Giro and Quintana was really bad in the tour so it made sense to think he won't be at his best in the Vuelta too.

Froome is clearly a better rider now and has a much bigger base. 2012 was nothing more than a learning school so not really a good yardstick.

I wouldn't count at all on Froome fading.

 

[Miburo]

I'm prob the only one but i still believe.

Contador is improving, just blew himself up today. I expect a great performance wednesday and quintana will feel the tour in the 3rd week despite the great form he has now.

If Contador didn't believe he wouldn't have won the vuelta in 2012.

 

[Matteo.]

Re: Re:

Just checked Jens attacks blog for ascent times today, in fact Contador climbed today 30 sec. faster than in 2014 and in the same time as 2012. Quintana was stratospheric and Froome climbed 1 minute and 16 seconds faster than in 2012 and 2014. Food for thought.

That is good to know. Not that I had thought less of Contador for his performance in the first place but it does put it all into perspective.

For me these times say everything and nothing at the same time. in 2012 contador was 30s faster than 2014. So in 2012 he was in better shape than 2014?

 

[PremierAndrew]

Re:

I'm prob the only one but i still believe.

Contador is improving, just blew himself up today. I expect a great performance wednesday and quintana will feel the tour in the 3rd week despite the great form he has now.

If Contador didn't believe he wouldn't have won the vuelta in 2012.

Usually I'd say you're just seriously over optimistic, but at the end of the day, all things considered, Contador will be the strongest guy in the race during the 3rd week. Therefore, there's still a chance

 

[LaFlorecita]

Re:

I don't think its a ridiculous thought process that Contador could do to Froome today what he did in Farrapona and Ancares, be conservative, hold his wheel and gain 10 seconds, especially if he didn't crash. He could've at least hold his wheel, Im pretty sure of that.

I think so too. But that's what you get when you're not in the lead. You have to take risks, although I'm not sure this was the moment to take risks. But I can understand Alberto. He was already 1'40" behind, he desperately didn't want Quintana to take even more time, so desperately, that in the end he ceded even more time than necessary. In hindsight attacking was a mistake, but he clearly wanted to take time on Froome as well. I don't think today's result reflects his true level.

 

[Gigs_98]

Re: Re:

And why should Contador have been the favorite for this race? Based on his Daughine, he would have needed a significant increase in performance at the Tour to have been in contention for yellow. True, we don't know the actual status of his form at the Tour, because of the crashes, however, something tells me he wasn't up to it. Now the Vuelta, after crashes and abandoning the Tour, against riders who finished the Tour and so have benefited from the fitness that the Tour brings, what next. On the other hand they could be tired, could fade in the third week. But can we really expect that in today's cycling?

I don't see why a Contador who crashed out of the Tour in dubious condition, should have at all been considered the favorite in this race against the likes of riders who finished the Tour as its protagonists. Especially at this stage in his career.

He didn't ride for 3 weeks in France and his injuries weren't that bad. He already rode again in San Sebastian so it was reasonable to think he will be near his best in the Vuelta. Meanwhile Froome rode Rio and considering his Vuelta performance 2012 it makes sense to think he will fade, while the gc riders who didn't ride the tour usually just aren't on Contadors level and I still don't believe Chaves can finish in front of Contador. The two riders who have already performed very well in back to back gt's are Valverde and Quintana, but Valverde already rode the Giro and Quintana was really bad in the tour so it made sense to think he won't be at his best in the Vuelta too.

Froome is clearly a better rider now and has a much bigger base. 2012 was nothing more than a learning school so not really a good yardstick.

I wouldn't count at all on Froome fading.

Honestly, I do. Maybe not as bad as in 2012 but I'm pretty sure he will get worse. And generally 2012 Froome is extremely underrated. That guy was one of the three best TT'ers in the world and the best best climber in the world. He was just unlucky to be Froome's domestique

 

[Angliru]

Re:

I'm prob the only one but i still believe.

Contador is improving, just blew himself up today. I expect a great performance wednesday and quintana will feel the tour in the 3rd week despite the great form he has now.

If Contador didn't believe he wouldn't have won the vuelta in 2012.

He admitted as much that he simply chose badly in attempting to follow Quintana, overestimating his energy reserves, instead of continuing at his own pace. He was understandably inspired by Froome's struggles at that time. With the immediate deficit he was given with his team's disappointing time trial performance, the need to gain time when an opportunity presents itself was too hard to resist. He paid for it in the end. Many here are acting like he lost several minutes!! As long as he's competitive, and most importantly, stays on his bike, he has a chance. GO ALBERTO!!!

 

[LaFlorecita]

Re:

I'm prob the only one but i still believe.

Contador is improving, just blew himself up today. I expect a great performance wednesday and quintana will feel the tour in the 3rd week despite the great form he has now.

If Contador didn't believe he wouldn't have won the vuelta in 2012.

Like Alberto says he doesn't like the word "impossible", of course he will keep trying until Madrid. I agree with you that I felt he looked quite good today, in fact he didn't start grimacing until maybe 5km to go, as you say he blew himself up. On a shorter climb this might not happen.
However, he is 3 minutes behind. While I could see Froome fading and losing minutes (note: didn't say it will happen, just that it wouldn't surprise me), I see Quintana riding a much more consistent race. So it will be very tough for Alberto even if he improves.

 

[Matteo.]

Re: Re:

I don't think its a ridiculous thought process that Contador could do to Froome today what he did in Farrapona and Ancares, be conservative, hold his wheel and gain 10 seconds, especially if he didn't crash. He could've at least hold his wheel, Im pretty sure of that.

I think so too. But that's what you get when you're not in the lead. You have to take risks, although I'm not sure this was the moment to take risks. But I can understand Alberto. He was already 1'40" behind, he desperately didn't want Quintana to take even more time, so desperately, that in the end he ceded even more time than necessary. In hindsight attacking was a mistake, but he clearly wanted to take time on Froome as well. I don't think today's result reflects his true level.

Sure. But only riding smartly

 

[damian13ster]

Re: Re:

There is not a single human that has only enemies. The fact is that he cant get the team working together, has domestiques speaking out against him, throws temper tantrums like in this Tour. He doesnt deserve respect from his teammates just because some other cyclists respect him. You have to EARN respect. He clearly hasnt. Just deal with it

Why are you so sure Kreuziger wasn't the problem?
And when did he throw tantrums? Do you have a source for that or are you just making **** up? I think your immense dislike for him is showing.
PS: voicing his discontent in one interview after a teammate was told to wait for him, looked him in the eye and left him to die, does not count as a tantrum in my opinion.

damien13ster is just fueled by the frustration of the extreme disappointing career of Kreuziger. A rider that felt it necessary to say that Nibali would never amount to much because he had such a "small engine". Years later we have Nibali with 4 grand tour wins and Kreuziger with a big goose egg. Contador is to blame for the lack of opportunities and results in those years with Tinkoff. Shoot if Contador wasn't there Kreuziger would have had all those grand tour wins that Contador got.

Nah, I am pretty neutral on Kreuziger. Dont care much about him.
But when there is smoke, there is fire. Tinkoff GT team is clearly dysfunctional when AC is in the race. And that falls on a leader

 

[Miburo]

I think Damian has a point here, Alberto isn't much of a leader. He has a very strong personality but that doesn't make someone a leader. Part of the blame definitely falls on him

What kreuziger did, with the tweet is rather pety, how pathetic

 

[robin440]

2012 pages now! i want to see contador now rippin in just like he did on fuente in 2012 and win that whole thing!

 

[LaFlorecita]

Re:

I think Damian has a point here, Alberto isn't much of a leader. He has a very strong personality but that doesn't make someone a leader. Part of the blame definitely falls on him

What kreuziger did, with the tweet is rather pety, how pathetic

I agree, he isn't a natural leader. He is grateful for any help he receives but he is too "weak" (if you know what I mean) to be a leader. He's not the kind of guy to put his foot down and demand something.
He seems like a very nice guy though, damian13ster made him out to be some whiny little *** which is most definitely not the case.

 

[lenric]

I agree with Damien also. Since the beginning of his career until today, I have never seen Contador as a leader, probably because he didn't need a team. He was the best by far, so his team was kind of useless. That means that he hasn't had the chance of developing his leadership skills.

But in the last 2/3 years he needed a team, but unfortunately I have never seen him using it properly.
Sure there are colleagues and former colleagues who fancy him, after all, he's not a ruthless guy. But I believe many of his former colleagues see him as a colleague and not as a leader. And on top of it, I doubt the majority of the DS he worked with have great leadership skills, apart from Bruynel.

 

[Flamin]

Re: Re:

And why should Contador have been the favorite for this race? Based on his Daughine, he would have needed a significant increase in performance at the Tour to have been in contention for yellow. True, we don't know the actual status of his form at the Tour, because of the crashes, however, something tells me he wasn't up to it. Now the Vuelta, after crashes and abandoning the Tour, against riders who finished the Tour and so have benefited from the fitness that the Tour brings, what next. On the other hand they could be tired, could fade in the third week. But can we really expect that in today's cycling?

I don't see why a Contador who crashed out of the Tour in dubious condition, should have at all been considered the favorite in this race against the likes of riders who finished the Tour as its protagonists. Especially at this stage in his career.

He didn't ride for 3 weeks in France and his injuries weren't that bad. He already rode again in San Sebastian so it was reasonable to think he will be near his best in the Vuelta. Meanwhile Froome rode Rio and considering his Vuelta performance 2012 it makes sense to think he will fade, while the gc riders who didn't ride the tour usually just aren't on Contadors level and I still don't believe Chaves can finish in front of Contador. The two riders who have already performed very well in back to back gt's are Valverde and Quintana, but Valverde already rode the Giro and Quintana was really bad in the tour so it made sense to think he won't be at his best in the Vuelta too.

Froome is clearly a better rider now and has a much bigger base. 2012 was nothing more than a learning school so not really a good yardstick.

I wouldn't count at all on Froome fading.

Honestly, I do. Maybe not as bad as in 2012 but I'm pretty sure he will get worse. And generally 2012 Froome is extremely underrated. That guy was one of the three best TT'ers in the world and the best best climber in the world. He was just unlucky to be Froome's domestique

Regardless of how good he already was in 2012, the point is more that he had never even ridden 2 GT's in the same year, let alone back-to-back GT's. The Vuelta that year was purely to gain experience and become a better rider. GC wasn't important.

In 2012 he would never have ridden like today, because this year he's there to win the Vuelta.

 

[LaFlorecita]

Re:

I agree with Damien also. Since the beginning of his career until today, I have never seen Contador as a leader, probably because he didn't need a team. He was the best by far, so his team was kind of useless. That means that he hasn't had the chance of developing his leadership skills.

But in the last 2/3 years he needed a team, but unfortunately I have never seen him using it properly.
Sure there are colleagues and former colleagues who fancy him, after all, he's not a ruthless guy. But I believe many of his former colleagues see him as a colleague and not as a leader. And on top of it, I doubt the majority of the DS he worked with have great leadership skills, apart from Bruynel.

Yeah, those former teammates don't specifically like him as a leader, they appreciate and respect him as an athlete and person. But if we have to believe damian13ster he is a di.ck who throws pathetic temper tantrums and is never grateful towards his teammates. Okay then, I'm sure he knows best

 

[Taxus4a]

Re:

Come on taxus. Similar level of 2014...you don't believe even you.
And even his worse haters

In fact, itis the best time ever for alberto in Los Lagos.

http://www.climbing-records.com/2016/08/amazing-new-entries-in-top-100-lagos-de.html

I argue you several reasons why I think he is the same or similar to 2014, now you can argue, not just to say, come on,..or non sense thing like that... You know that I analyze cycling, not just first impresions

Quintana is a little bit better, but in 2014 he couldnt reach the best stages for him.

 

[staubsauger]

Re: Re:

I agree with Damien also. Since the beginning of his career until today, I have never seen Contador as a leader, probably because he didn't need a team. He was the best by far, so his team was kind of useless. That means that he hasn't had the chance of developing his leadership skills.

But in the last 2/3 years he needed a team, but unfortunately I have never seen him using it properly.
Sure there are colleagues and former colleagues who fancy him, after all, he's not a ruthless guy. But I believe many of his former colleagues see him as a colleague and not as a leader. And on top of it, I doubt the majority of the DS he worked with have great leadership skills, apart from Bruynel.

Yeah, those former teammates don't specifically like him as a leader, they appreciate and respect him as an athlete and person. But if we have to believe damian13ster he is a di.ck who throws pathetic temper tantrums and is never grateful towards his teammates. Okay then, I'm sure he knows best

Well, there were this issues with Leipheimer in 2007 & 2008. Later nearly the whole Astana team build themselves around Armstrong, despite Lance being Lance and also being the weaker bike rider and obviously no longer the boss. Half the team went to Radioshack, that still tells something. Even at Astana there were some bad vibrations later on between Vino and Contador after Alberto chased down one Vino attack. Then obviously at Saxo/Tinkoff he never got his support team worked due to different reasons. So in fact there must be some reason with Contador for it just like there are reasons elsewhere. His behavior obviously hasn't been very good all the time based on this history line. I wouldn't be as harsh as dam1anster though ...

 

[red zone]

I don't understand what people are saying about Contador not being a leader , this isn't like football where your leader doesn't have to be your best player .

in cycling you designate your best cyclist to be your leader , personality doesn't come into it and if there's a problem with the team not supporting it's designated leader then that comes down to a weak DS or an individual who doesn't know his role

 

[DFA123]

Re:

I don't understand what people are saying about Contador not being a leader , this isn't like football where your leader doesn't have to be your best player .

in cycling you designate your best cyclist to be your leader , personality doesn't come into it and if there's a problem with the team not supporting it's designated leader then that comes down to a weak DS or an individual who doesn't know his role

Think the problem is more that Contador doesn't use his team effectively. He can't organize his team well and make them support him well; although this is partly a failing of the DS as well. Obviously he's team leader, but he still has to make it clear to team-mates on the road how they can best support him, and communicate clearly when he needs help, and how they can help him. Instead, he seems to follow the pattern of: pick a team full of his mates who aren't very good, get isolated early and then have to fend for himself the last 10km by himself.

 

[Billie]

Renee Meijer ‏@reneemeijer02 6h6 hours ago
Some riders forget that they still have a contract to serve until 1-1-2017, so try to stick with it and then focus on your new team.....

Tinkoff is divided. Has been for a long time.

On side there is Contador with De Jongh and his pets other side there is Sagan, Majka, Kreuziger.

Whole team was angry with Contador when he abandoned le Tour. Most felt he could have fight through and continued on TdF. Think all of them joined the other side there.

 

[red zone]

Re: Re:

I agree with Damien also. Since the beginning of his career until today, I have never seen Contador as a leader, probably because he didn't need a team. He was the best by far, so his team was kind of useless. That means that he hasn't had the chance of developing his leadership skills.

But in the last 2/3 years he needed a team, but unfortunately I have never seen him using it properly.
Sure there are colleagues and former colleagues who fancy him, after all, he's not a ruthless guy. But I believe many of his former colleagues see him as a colleague and not as a leader. And on top of it, I doubt the majority of the DS he worked with have great leadership skills, apart from Bruynel.

Yeah, those former teammates don't specifically like him as a leader, they appreciate and respect him as an athlete and person. But if we have to believe damian13ster he is a di.ck who throws pathetic temper tantrums and is never grateful towards his teammates. Okay then, I'm sure he knows best

Well, there were this issues with Leipheimer in 2007 & 2008. Later nearly the whole Astana team build themselves around Armstrong, despite Lance being Lance and also being the weaker bike rider and obviously no longer the boss. Half the team went to Radioshack, that still tells something. Even at Astana there were some bad vibrations later on between Vino and Contador after Alberto chased down one Vino attack. Then obviously at Saxo/Tinkoff he never got his support team worked due to different reasons. So in fact there must be some reason with Contador for it just like there are reasons elsewhere. His behavior obviously hasn't been very good all the time based on this history line. I wouldn't be as harsh as dam1anster though ...

so Bruyneel and Lance loyalists siding with Armstrong over Contador is a sign he isn't a good leader ? :surprised:

 

[Billie]

Paulinho isn't a Bruyneel loyalist but even he joined camp Bruyneel-Armstrong during TdF 2009