Teams & Riders Alberto Contador Discussion Thread

[Lexman]

Re:

So if Albero wouldn't have work so much, he would have won on Formigal. Is this the hidden message?

very well possible

"Contador, having worked so hard early on, suffering from cramps,"
http://www.cyclingnews.com/features/vuelta-a-espana-how-quintana-and-contador-tore-up-the-script/

 

[bambino]

Re: Re:

So if Albero wouldn't have work so much, he would have won on Formigal. Is this the hidden message?

"The hidden message" is that he only knows to ride like what he is. A true champion.

"We stayed all together a long way. You have to bear in mind that a stage on the 15th day, after such a hard start, is naturally going to have a lot of riders who are strong," De la Cruz said. "At the same time, everybody had something to get out of it, Omar Fraile was going for the mountains, so was Elissonde, then Tinkoff, Movistar and Cannondale, we all had something to gain. It was easy to collaborate.

"At first, seeing the intensity of the first kilometres, I thought it was going to be very tough, we could end up paying at the end of it, it was impossible to go so fast. But it was equally crazy fast behind, they were losing riders at the first. From about halfway on, I thought, this is going to stick. Contador was really interested, and he commands a lot of respect. Whenever he talks, people tend to listen and act as a unit . He talked to absolutely everybody, insisting that it could work out, he was really the guy who sorted things out in the first part of the stage,


I guess some people will keep thinking Quintana and Brambilla made the break. Of course Alberto was a mere witness and he was just fighting for the podium.

I haven't seen anybody claiming that Contador wasn't the mastermind of the break, so stop bending other people's words.

Some people (including me) did challenge though wherher it was the best tactic for his GC ambition to to do so much work within the break once it got established and not push Movistar to work even more to tire doms and Quintana before the last climb.

 

[Kwibus]

Re: Re:

I mean, that's not surprising, is it.

I don't know, I'd have expected Trofimov and Rovny to do more work than their leader

If they were as strong they probably would. Reading that article suggests that Contador was doing a lot of work specially during the period they made their gap. Last half he kept on doing his work, but not as much as he did in the first half. He made sure the gap got to 3 minutes atleast.

This also ends the discussion about Quintana beating Contador while both did their work. Sure both did their work, but Alberto apparently did more, that's also fine with me. Quintana also rode one hell of a race.

That article was a great read though. Hearing the other breakaway riders speak about how, what and when etc. Was really interesting. A lot of praise to Contador and well he isn't in his best form and having a rather poor Vuelta for his standards, but he came out and blew the race apart once again. This is the reason he has alot of fans.

 

[Flamin]

Probably just a bad translation. Alberto was the motor in establishing the break and was active on the first climb when the gap was still rather small, but obviously didn't work even half as much as his teammates did for the remainder of the stage. Would be plain silly if he had.

 

[LaFlorecita]

"El objetivo no es el podio, es ganar, aunque está muy difícil. Nairo tiene un equipo potentisimo y tiene una diferencia muy grande. También hay corredores por delante de mí, pero voy a seguir dando todo lo que tengo en carrera y a ver cómo terminamos, pueden pasar mil cosas", aseguró el corredor.

His objective isn't the podium, he will try and see where he ends up.

 

[IMA]

Re: Re:

So if Albero wouldn't have work so much, he would have won on Formigal. Is this the hidden message?

I haven't seen anybody claiming that Contador wasn't the mastermind of the break, so stop bending other people's words.

Some people (including me) did challenge though wherher it was the best tactic for his GC ambition to to do so much work within the break once it got established and not push Movistar to work even more to tire doms and Quintana before the last climb.

Actually there was someone who even claimed that Brambilla was who made the break, and that Quintana worked harder than Contador before the final climb.

Sorry if it bothered you. That wasn´t my intention. However i don´t agree with your last paragraph. I think Alberto did what he had to do, even if it costed him the stage win. He´s just used to ride like a champion, but his legs are not working well enough so far.

 

[IMA]

Re:

"El objetivo no es el podio, es ganar, aunque está muy difícil. Nairo tiene un equipo potentisimo y tiene una diferencia muy grande. También hay corredores por delante de mí, pero voy a seguir dando todo lo que tengo en carrera y a ver cómo terminamos, pueden pasar mil cosas", aseguró el corredor.

His objective isn't the podium, he will try and see where he ends up.

Sorry in advance.

 

[Escarabajo]

Re: Re:

I mean, that's not surprising, is it.

I don't know, I'd have expected Trofimov and Rovny to do more work than their leader

I saw Trofimov and Rovny doing a lot of pulls along with Castroviejo.

That's when the camera was on. Don't know when the camera wasn't on them.

 

[Kwibus]

Re: Re:

I mean, that's not surprising, is it.

I don't know, I'd have expected Trofimov and Rovny to do more work than their leader

I saw Trofimov and Rovny doing a lot of pulls along with Castroviejo.

That's when the camera was on. Don't know when the camera wasn't on them.

Ofcourse they did a lot of work.mit is my understanding that Alberto put in a lot of effort early on establishing a solid gap. When the gap was big enough he ofcourse reduced his workload.

 

[bambino]

Re: Re:

So if Albero wouldn't have work so much, he would have won on Formigal. Is this the hidden message?

I haven't seen anybody claiming that Contador wasn't the mastermind of the break, so stop bending other people's words.

Some people (including me) did challenge though wherher it was the best tactic for his GC ambition to to do so much work within the break once it got established and not push Movistar to work even more to tire doms and Quintana before the last climb.

Actually there was someone who even claimed that Brambilla was who made the break, and that Quintana worked harder than Contador before the final climb.

Sorry if it bothered you. That wasn´t my intention. However i don´t agree with your last paragraph. I think Alberto did what he had to do, even if it costed him the stage win. He´s just used to ride like a champion, but his legs are not working well enough so far.

There were tactics to choose and he selected the one which paid off nicely in terms of podium play. The more risky (which could have failed miserably) tactict would've been to attack also Nairo, but I guess he did feel it is actually too risky. Anyway seeing the parcours in the last week, he is getting very short of chances to go for the win, which is the only thing he cares, right?

 

[peloton]

Re: Re:

So if Albero wouldn't have work so much, he would have won on Formigal. Is this the hidden message?

I haven't seen anybody claiming that Contador wasn't the mastermind of the break, so stop bending other people's words.

Some people (including me) did challenge though wherher it was the best tactic for his GC ambition to to do so much work within the break once it got established and not push Movistar to work even more to tire doms and Quintana before the last climb.

Actually there was someone who even claimed that Brambilla was who made the break, and that Quintana worked harder than Contador before the final climb.

Sorry if it bothered you. That wasn´t my intention. However i don´t agree with your last paragraph. I think Alberto did what he had to do, even if it costed him the stage win. He´s just used to ride like a champion, but his legs are not working well enough so far.

There were tactics to choose and he selected the one which paid off nicely in terms of podium play. The more risky (which could have failed miserably) tactict would've been to attack also Nairo, but I guess he did feel it is actually too risky. Anyway seeing the parcours in the last week, he is getting very short of chances to go for the win, which is the only thing he cares, right?

Has be ever been on the podium (other than winning) in a GT? There's your answer...

 

[DFA123]

Re: Re:

There were tactics to choose and he selected the one which paid off nicely in terms of podium play. The more risky (which could have failed miserably) tactict would've been to attack also Nairo, but I guess he did feel it is actually too risky. Anyway seeing the parcours in the last week, he is getting very short of chances to go for the win, which is the only thing he cares, right?

Has be ever been on the podium (other than winning) in a GT? There's your answer...

That's a bit of a weak argument. He's only finished a GT twice as a GC contender without winning, and ended up 4th on one occasion and 5th on another. In both of those races, I don't think anyone could argue he was one of the top 3 riders; so it wasn't like he made the choice not to finish on the podium by risking everything - he just wasn't good enough to do so. He basically tried to and did indeed finish in the highest GC position he was capable of - no different to any other rider in that respect.

You could argue his stripped result in the 2011 Tour, he possibly had the shape to finish 3rd if he'd ridden more conservatively, but that is also by no means certain anyway. 2011 was a bit different anyway - he still felt like he was superman then. With the possible exception of 2014, he's been nowhere near that level since.

 

[IndianCyclist]

Re: Re:

So if Albero wouldn't have work so much, he would have won on Formigal. Is this the hidden message?

very well possible

"Contador, having worked so hard early on, suffering from cramps,"
http://www.cyclingnews.com/features/vuelta-a-espana-how-quintana-and-contador-tore-up-the-script/

He should have won but he worked too much initially

 

[LaFlorecita]

"It's true that until this year my success rate at the Vuelta was 100% and it now seems it will drop to 75%"

Very poor, Berto

 

[Angliru]

Re: Re:

There were tactics to choose and he selected the one which paid off nicely in terms of podium play. The more risky (which could have failed miserably) tactict would've been to attack also Nairo, but I guess he did feel it is actually too risky. Anyway seeing the parcours in the last week, he is getting very short of chances to go for the win, which is the only thing he cares, right?

Has be ever been on the podium (other than winning) in a GT? There's your answer...

That's a bit of a weak argument. He's only finished a GT twice as a GC contender without winning, and ended up 4th on one occasion and 5th on another. In both of those races, I don't think anyone could argue he was one of the top 3 riders; so it wasn't like he made the choice not to finish on the podium by risking everything - he just wasn't good enough to do so. He basically tried to and did indeed finish in the highest GC position he was capable of - no different to any other rider in that respect.

You could argue his stripped result in the 2011 Tour, he possibly had the shape to finish 3rd if he'd ridden more conservatively, but that is also by no means certain anyway. 2011 was a bit different anyway - he still felt like he was superman then. With the possible exception of 2014, he's been nowhere near that level since.

His epic attack on the Alpe d'Huez stage of the 2011 could be seen as a hail mary attempt at winning the race. It certainly altered the race immensely in that Andy Schleck had gone on his own long range attack on the previous stage and Contador's attack took advantage of that knowing Andy would potentially be calling on reserves that weren't there in trying to shadow Contador's attack. It brought Andy from euphoria to depression in short period of time. Contador's efforts failed in that Pierre Rolland and Sammy Sanchez reeled him in shortly before the finish with Rolland winning the stage and it didn't put Contador in the race lead nor on the podium but it did blow the race apart. Best case scenario was that he regained all the time he was trailing, snatched the leader's jersey and won the stage all while entertaining the masses with an epic attack that blew the race apart. He only was able to achieve the latter but one never knows what could happen unless they take that chance. Stranger things have happened.

The difference, at least in my eyes, is that how often do you see someone that is one of the top riders in the gc or top 10 for that matter, try an epic attack, risking their current position in hopes of making a major advance in the standings of the gc? Andy did it and Contador has done it multiple times in grand tours. They gave it a try to see what would happen. It is a major risk because if they are left out there to stew all alone as Armstrong did to Pantani, then if and when they are reeled in they could ultimately lose major time.

 

[Miburo]

5 stages left right? So my prediction of 5 stage wins is still possible

 

[Red Rick]

Re:

5 stages left right? So my prediction of 5 stage wins is still possible

He'll ride everyone out of the time limit tomorrow. Then he'll have a 4 stage victory parade

 

[DFA123]

Re: Re:

There were tactics to choose and he selected the one which paid off nicely in terms of podium play. The more risky (which could have failed miserably) tactict would've been to attack also Nairo, but I guess he did feel it is actually too risky. Anyway seeing the parcours in the last week, he is getting very short of chances to go for the win, which is the only thing he cares, right?

Has be ever been on the podium (other than winning) in a GT? There's your answer...

That's a bit of a weak argument. He's only finished a GT twice as a GC contender without winning, and ended up 4th on one occasion and 5th on another. In both of those races, I don't think anyone could argue he was one of the top 3 riders; so it wasn't like he made the choice not to finish on the podium by risking everything - he just wasn't good enough to do so. He basically tried to and did indeed finish in the highest GC position he was capable of - no different to any other rider in that respect.

You could argue his stripped result in the 2011 Tour, he possibly had the shape to finish 3rd if he'd ridden more conservatively, but that is also by no means certain anyway. 2011 was a bit different anyway - he still felt like he was superman then. With the possible exception of 2014, he's been nowhere near that level since.

His epic attack on the Alpe d'Huez stage of the 2011 could be seen as a hail mary attempt at winning the race. It certainly altered the race immensely in that Andy Schleck had gone on his own long range attack on the previous stage and Contador's attack took advantage of that knowing Andy would potentially be calling on reserves that weren't there in trying to shadow Contador's attack. It brought Andy from euphoria to depression in short period of time. Contador's efforts failed in that Pierre Rolland and Sammy Sanchez reeled him in shortly before the finish with Rolland winning the stage and it didn't put Contador in the race lead nor on the podium but it did blow the race apart. Best case scenario was that he regained all the time he was trailing, snatched the leader's jersey and won the stage all while entertaining the masses with an epic attack that blew the race apart. He only was able to achieve the latter but one never knows what could happen unless they take that chance. Stranger things have happened.

The difference, at least in my eyes, is that how often do you see someone that is one of the top riders in the gc or top 10 for that matter, try an epic attack, risking their current position in hopes of making a major advance in the standings of the gc? Andy did it and Contador has done it multiple times in grand tours. They gave it a try to see what would happen. It is a major risk because if they are left out there to stew all alone as Armstrong did to Pantani, then if and when they are reeled in they could ultimately lose major time.

I don't think Contador risked much with his attacks in the past. He's never risked a probable podium position to try to win. He's done those attacks either when he wasn't one of the best three riders in the race and so had nothing to lose. Or, as in 2012, when he was virtually guaranteed at least a podium, so again had little to lose by doing such an attack.

This Vuelta is a pretty unique scenario in his career. Because he's probably the 3rd/4th strongest rider in the race and is in with a genuine chance of a podium, but with almost no chance of 1st, barring crashes. And, quite rightly,
he seems to be targetting the podium - hence the full co-operation with Movistar. In previous races he's pretty much always been either the best rider in the race, or in not good enough shape to make the podium. The long range attacks were showy, but not really risky.

 

[LaFlorecita]

Re: Re:

quite rightly,
he seems to be targetting the podium

hmmmm

"El objetivo no es el podio, es ganar, aunque está muy difícil. Nairo tiene un equipo potentisimo y tiene una diferencia muy grande. También hay corredores por delante de mí, pero voy a seguir dando todo lo que tengo en carrera y a ver cómo terminamos, pueden pasar mil cosas"

 

[DFA123]

Re: Re:

quite rightly,
he seems to be targetting the podium

hmmmm

"El objetivo no es el podio, es ganar, aunque está muy difícil. Nairo tiene un equipo potentisimo y tiene una diferencia muy grande. También hay corredores por delante de mí, pero voy a seguir dando todo lo que tengo en carrera y a ver cómo terminamos, pueden pasar mil cosas"

Actions speak louder than words. He's hardly known for telling the truth regarding his condition or tactical plans after all.

 

[Jelantik]

Re: Re:

So if Albero wouldn't have work so much, he would have won on Formigal. Is this the hidden message?

very well possible

"Contador, having worked so hard early on, suffering from cramps,"
http://www.cyclingnews.com/features/vuelta-a-espana-how-quintana-and-contador-tore-up-the-script/

He should have won but he worked too much initially

That's relative. No guarantee that he would win either (or if he didn't work, then the break won't stick. so catch 22). The fact was he did it to try to win it outright. In a rest day interview with Contador, he expected Froome to do something on the next 6 stage, and I think, he would be there to tag along. So whoever takes advantage for the next stage, Contador is looking forward to support and take advantage of it. I'm sure this time is trying to get time on Quintana. So somewhat Froome or Chavez gotta do something.

 

[LaFlorecita]

quite rightly,
he seems to be targetting the podium

hmmmm

"El objetivo no es el podio, es ganar, aunque está muy difícil. Nairo tiene un equipo potentisimo y tiene una diferencia muy grande. También hay corredores por delante de mí, pero voy a seguir dando todo lo que tengo en carrera y a ver cómo terminamos, pueden pasar mil cosas"

Actions speak louder than words. He's hardly known for telling the truth regarding his condition or tactical plans after all.

Oh come on. He needed as much time as possible on Froome, Chaves and Yates. All 3 were ahead of him and by quite some margin as well. It's not difficult: gain as much time as possible on the other challengers, try to gain time on Quintana another day. Focusing just on Quintana won't get him anywhere.

 

[DFA123]

Re:

quite rightly,
he seems to be targetting the podium

hmmmm

"El objetivo no es el podio, es ganar, aunque está muy difícil. Nairo tiene un equipo potentisimo y tiene una diferencia muy grande. También hay corredores por delante de mí, pero voy a seguir dando todo lo que tengo en carrera y a ver cómo terminamos, pueden pasar mil cosas"

Actions speak louder than words. He's hardly known for telling the truth regarding his condition or tactical plans after all.

Oh come on. He needed as much time as possible on Froome, Chaves and Yates. All 3 were ahead of him and by quite some margin as well. It's not difficult: gain as much time as possible on the other challengers, try to gain time on Quintana another day. Focusing just on Quintana won't get him anywhere.

We'll have to agree to disagree I think. For me, this was the one opportunity to risk it all for the win. The race was chaotic and Movistar had to ride to distance Froome in that situation; Contador simply did too much and didn't force Movistar to do enough work earlier on the stage. A good move for the podium, not a good move for winning the race. Now Movistar don't have to do anything risky, the remaining stages are relatively easy to control and it's hard to see Tinkoff getting away and staying away from Movistar. I think that was the one opportunity to give himself a shot at winning, and he ended up losing 30 seconds to the race leader.

 

[IMA]

Re: Re:

So if Albero wouldn't have work so much, he would have won on Formigal. Is this the hidden message?

I haven't seen anybody claiming that Contador wasn't the mastermind of the break, so stop bending other people's words.

Some people (including me) did challenge though wherher it was the best tactic for his GC ambition to to do so much work within the break once it got established and not push Movistar to work even more to tire doms and Quintana before the last climb.

Actually there was someone who even claimed that Brambilla was who made the break, and that Quintana worked harder than Contador before the final climb.

Sorry if it bothered you. That wasn´t my intention. However i don´t agree with your last paragraph. I think Alberto did what he had to do, even if it costed him the stage win. He´s just used to ride like a champion, but his legs are not working well enough so far.

There were tactics to choose and he selected the one which paid off nicely in terms of podium play. The more risky (which could have failed miserably) tactict would've been to attack also Nairo, but I guess he did feel it is actually too risky. Anyway seeing the parcours in the last week, he is getting very short of chances to go for the win, which is the only thing he cares, right?

I see your point.

But as i said the last days several times, you cannot expect to put time on all your rivals when you´re not even among the 2 strongest riders of the race. Especially with this parcours, as you said. Before the begining of yesterday´s stage he was 6th and now he´s just 5 secs behind the 3rd in the GC. Not bad at all considering this Alberto is one of the weakest we´ve seen in GTs in 10 years.

It would be a miracle if Alberto wins this Vuelta. But if so, it won´t be by knockout to all his rivals in one single stage.

 

[Miburo]

Hell win tomorrow. Vuelta not over yet