Teams & Riders Alberto Contador Discussion Thread

[Jack_89]

Re: Re:

Lolol

Even journos just ignore the fact Alberto stated he would build up slowly and didn't want to peak for the spring races

That's okay...it'll just make them look very stupid later and it'll make AC's victory a little sweeter.

you' re right

 

[Scarponi]

Re:

Cyclingnews guys are ***, most cyclist journalists are really dumb. One of the problems of the sport. A guy who hasn't proven anything in a GC of a GT is now equal to a guy who has won 8 GT's and looked fantastic last year.

Never take cyclist journalists serious, most of them are a bunch of idiots.

It is highly amusing isn't it?

There has probably only been 4-5 riders in Contadors era during certain races that could even be considered close

Maybe Shleck, Evans (some years), Froome, Valverde or JRod?

 

[SeriousSam]

Well Contador isn't always the favourite. Like, last year he wasn't for either the Tour or the Vuelta. This year he once again isn't for the Tour, and would not be even if it were his only target becausen Froome is regarded as slightly stronger. And even Quintana now.

But Richie? Nah.

 

[LaFlorecita]

In what universe was Contador not the fave for the Tour?
And for me he would be the favorite this year too if he would just focus on the Tour. As Benjamin Noval said, "he will win the Tour for sure, I don't know by how much but he will win"
Froome regarded as slightly stronger? Quintana too? By you, maybe.

 

[The fridge in the blue trees]

It's about winning, not about being the favorite. As Nibali knows.

 

[LaFlorecita]

Re:

It's about winning, not about being the favorite. As Nibali knows.

What are you trying to add to the discussion?

 

[SeriousSam]

Re:

In what universe was Contador not the fave for the Tour?
And for me he would be the favorite this year too if he would just focus on the Tour. As Benjamin Noval said, "he will win the Tour for sure, I don't know by how much but he will win"
Froome regarded as slightly stronger? Quintana too? By you, maybe.

In the universe of gambling. The gambling odds do a very good job predicting outcomes in sports correctly, as many empirical studies have shown. That's why I usually go with their predictions. If you want to know what happens in a given sport, ignore all journalism, ignore what the fans say, just look at the odds.
Froome was narrowly deemed more likely to win the Tour last year than Contador before it started. This year, Quintana is narrowly ahead of Froome and Froome narrowly ahead of Contador.
Richie and Contador at the Giro though, it's not narrow. There's a significant gap in the odds. Contador is the clear favourite.
None of this is my opinion, just reporting things here and letting you know that the accuracy of these predictions has been much researched.

If you ask me, I don't think Quintana is stronger than either Froome or Contador and I'd give Contador better odds at the Tour if it were his sole focus. I'd give Froome better odds than Contador though, because I think his best is better. I'm far from certain about this but I think the signals received thus far point in that direction, as explained in the Froome thread.

 

[SyroboiII]

How is it even a a discussion that Froome will beat Contador in the Tour? Have you forgotten that cycling a team sport or at least a combination of team and individual sport. A clown (Oleg) who runs a fragile circus (Tinkoff) against a tactical strategist (Brailsford) with a close-knit unit (Sky).

As it is now, Froome will win 9/10 times. But if Contador got a team like Sky, he may have the edge.

 

[Jspear]

Re:

How is it even a a discussion that Froome will beat Contador in the Tour? Have you forgotten that cycling a team sport or at least a combination of team and individual sport. A clown (Oleg) who runs a fragile circus (Tinkoff) against a tactical strategist (Brailsford) with a close-knit unit (Sky).

As it is now, Froome will win 9/10 times. But if Contador got a team like Sky, he may have the edge.

If you have watched any cycling in the last several years you would know why it's being discussed. You're new here I see. Go back and read a lot of the old posts; You'll see how the conversation has flowed to where it is now.

 

[The fridge in the blue trees]

Re: Re:

It's about winning, not about being the favorite. As Nibali knows.

What are you trying to add to the discussion?

Common sense.
What about you?

 

[Eshnar]

Re:

How is it even a a discussion that Froome will beat Contador in the Tour? Have you forgotten that cycling a team sport or at least a combination of team and individual sport. A clown (Oleg) who runs a fragile circus (Tinkoff) against a tactical strategist (Brailsford) with a close-knit unit (Sky).

As it is now, Froome will win 9/10 times. But if Contador got a team like Sky, he may have the edge.

At least I can see the point of the rest, but the bolded... When was the last time Brailsford came up with anything that resembled an actual tactic?

 

[Jspear]

Re: Re:

It's about winning, not about being the favorite. As Nibali knows.

What are you trying to add to the discussion?

Common sense.
What about you?

I think you're referring to the 2014 Vuelta right? Obviously that is the best example of winning when he wasn't the favorite at all.

 

[SyroboiII]

Re: Re:

How is it even a a discussion that Froome will beat Contador in the Tour? Have you forgotten that cycling a team sport or at least a combination of team and individual sport. A clown (Oleg) who runs a fragile circus (Tinkoff) against a tactical strategist (Brailsford) with a close-knit unit (Sky).

As it is now, Froome will win 9/10 times. But if Contador got a team like Sky, he may have the edge.

At least I can see the point of the rest, but the bolded... When was the last time Brailsford came up with anything that resembled an actual tactic?

Riding like a train and controlling the peloton, marginal gains, extreme weight loss methods, super preparation, having the richest sponsor, taking the use of power meters to the next level.

 

[LaFlorecita]

Re: Re:

Riding like a train and controlling the peloton, marginal gains, extreme weight loss methods, super preparation, having the richest sponsor, taking the use of power meters to the next level.

You must be trolling

 

[Eshnar]

Re: Re:

How is it even a a discussion that Froome will beat Contador in the Tour? Have you forgotten that cycling a team sport or at least a combination of team and individual sport. A clown (Oleg) who runs a fragile circus (Tinkoff) against a tactical strategist (Brailsford) with a close-knit unit (Sky).

As it is now, Froome will win 9/10 times. But if Contador got a team like Sky, he may have the edge.

At least I can see the point of the rest, but the bolded... When was the last time Brailsford came up with anything that resembled an actual tactic?

Riding like a train and controlling the peloton, marginal gains, extreme weight loss methods, super preparation, having the richest sponsor, taking the use of power meters to the next level.

The train stuff is from US postal dude. And the rest is called science, whatever that is, and money. Tactics, nope.

 

[The fridge in the blue trees]

If that were the point, actually Hesjedal's Giro would be an even better example. Vuelta 14 would work too. Only problem is, as I said, that that wasn't the point. It's not about winning when you're not the favorite. It's just about winning.

 

[LaFlorecita]

Re:

How is it even a a discussion that Froome will beat Contador in the Tour? Have you forgotten that cycling a team sport or at least a combination of team and individual sport. A clown (Oleg) who runs a fragile circus (Tinkoff) against a tactical strategist (Brailsford) with a close-knit unit (Sky).

As it is now, Froome will win 9/10 times. But if Contador got a team like Sky, he may have the edge.

Maybe because Contador is very tough mentally and is much more consistent than Froome? Tinkov is a clown but that does not mean the team and Contador will be ***.

 

[LaFlorecita]

Re: Re:

It's about winning, not about being the favorite. As Nibali knows.

What are you trying to add to the discussion?

Common sense.
What about you?

Let me rephrase my question: what prompted you to post that? Did you just want to add some random thought of yours to the discussion and enlighten us with your wisdom? Because, as far as I can see, we were discussing who should be considered the favorite, not whether it matters if someone is the favorite or not.

 

[Netserk]

Re:

If that were the point, actually Hesjedal's Giro would be an even better example. Vuelta 14 would work too. Only problem is, as I said, that that wasn't the point. It's not about winning when you're not the favorite. It's just about winning.

So Contador is a great example since he has won a GT 8 times, which haven't been done by any other rider in the last 30 years.

 

[Carols]

Re: Re:

In what universe was Contador not the fave for the Tour?
And for me he would be the favorite this year too if he would just focus on the Tour. As Benjamin Noval said, "he will win the Tour for sure, I don't know by how much but he will win"
Froome regarded as slightly stronger? Quintana too? By you, maybe.

In the universe of gambling. The gambling odds do a very good job predicting outcomes in sports correctly, as many empirical studies have shown. That's why I usually go with their predictions. If you want to know what happens in a given sport, ignore all journalism, ignore what the fans say, just look at the odds.

None of this is my opinion, just reporting things here and letting you know that the accuracy of these predictions has been much researched.

Hummm, certainly not in horse racing. The favorite wins about 30% of the time. I'd like to see these studies and improve my returns

 

[LaFlorecita]

Re: Re:

In what universe was Contador not the fave for the Tour?
And for me he would be the favorite this year too if he would just focus on the Tour. As Benjamin Noval said, "he will win the Tour for sure, I don't know by how much but he will win"
Froome regarded as slightly stronger? Quintana too? By you, maybe.

In the universe of gambling. The gambling odds do a very good job predicting outcomes in sports correctly, as many empirical studies have shown. That's why I usually go with their predictions. If you want to know what happens in a given sport, ignore all journalism, ignore what the fans say, just look at the odds.
Froome was narrowly deemed more likely to win the Tour last year than Contador before it started. This year, Quintana is narrowly ahead of Froome and Froome narrowly ahead of Contador.
Richie and Contador at the Giro though, it's not narrow. There's a significant gap in the odds. Contador is the clear favourite.
None of this is my opinion, just reporting things here and letting you know that the accuracy of these predictions has been much researched.

If you ask me, I don't think Quintana is stronger than either Froome or Contador and I'd give Contador better odds at the Tour if it were his sole focus. I'd give Froome better odds than Contador though, because I think his best is better. I'm far from certain about this but I think the signals received thus far point in that direction, as explained in the Froome thread.

A question: where do these bookies get their odds from? I am not sure, that's why I'm asking, but it must be either the opinion of an expert (in other words just as subjective as the opinion of, for example, Stephen Farrand) or, the general idea they get from everything that is said in the media and on the internet (in other words, the opinions of the journalists and fans).
I have seen too many crazy odds, from Eurovision to cycling, to take them as an indication as to who is the favorite to win. I personally prefer to use logic.
So far, I've only seen this Stephen Farrand guy state Porte is equal favorite for the Giro together with Contador. So, instead of using that as proof we should dismiss everything journalists say and look at the gambling odds instead, let's just consider it a strange opinion and move on.

 

[SyroboiII]

Re: Re:

How is it even a a discussion that Froome will beat Contador in the Tour? Have you forgotten that cycling a team sport or at least a combination of team and individual sport. A clown (Oleg) who runs a fragile circus (Tinkoff) against a tactical strategist (Brailsford) with a close-knit unit (Sky).

As it is now, Froome will win 9/10 times. But if Contador got a team like Sky, he may have the edge.

At least I can see the point of the rest, but the bolded... When was the last time Brailsford came up with anything that resembled an actual tactic?

Riding like a train and controlling the peloton, marginal gains, extreme weight loss methods, super preparation, having the richest sponsor, taking the use of power meters to the next level.

The train stuff is from US postal dude. And the rest is called science, whatever that is, and money. Tactics, nope.

Raw power and financial advantages > tactics. I may be a cynic, but that's how things work.

 

[LaFlorecita]

funny & very nicely done

Aigor Glez. Galdeano ‏@AigorGaldeano
Contador quality training in the Teide.
Entrenamiento de calidad de Contador en el Teide.
https://twitter.com/AigorGaldeano/status/590419322444640256

If you are on twitter, consider giving him a follow. Very good stuff

 

[SyroboiII]

Re: Re:

How is it even a a discussion that Froome will beat Contador in the Tour? Have you forgotten that cycling a team sport or at least a combination of team and individual sport. A clown (Oleg) who runs a fragile circus (Tinkoff) against a tactical strategist (Brailsford) with a close-knit unit (Sky).

As it is now, Froome will win 9/10 times. But if Contador got a team like Sky, he may have the edge.

Maybe because Contador is very tough mentally and is much more consistent than Froome? Tinkov is a clown but that does not mean the team and Contador will be ****.

Contador's team is not that great. Lots of random Danish guys, Sagan's little brother, Kolar, Poljanski, that other Australian guy that's not Rogers, old Italians, Tinkov's Russians.

Then take a lot at Team Sky. There is only stars at that team. At least 5 maybe 10 guys who can top 10 a GT. And at least a handful of riders who can top 10 a cobbled classic.

 

[SyroboiII]

And it's not just Froome that is a better GT rider than Contador now. It's also Porte.