Teams & Riders Alberto Contador Discussion Thread

[SeriousSam]

To be realistic on whether a 2013 repeat is likely, one would have to first understand what caused 2013. Is there any consensus on that?

 

[mrhender]

Re:

To be realistic on whether a 2013 repeat is likely, one would have to first understand what caused 2013. Is there any consensus on that?

I don't think there is consensus on that.. Riis and Contador were not very informative on that one..

Maybe it only takes a little bit of things going wrong to feck up a GT prep?

I dunno but AC never striked me as the type who only got it right every second year, so I doubt it is a general pattern of motivation issues or the like..

But I also don't think you could necessarily compare what went "wrong" in 13' to what "might" have been an issue this year... Different circumstances can cause same effect...

 

[LaFlorecita]

Berto seems pretty upbeat, I doubt he is in terrible shape

 

[Red Rick]

Re:

To be realistic on whether a 2013 repeat is likely, one would have to first understand what caused 2013. Is there any consensus on that?

Don't think it the team or Contador ever came up with in explanation, but I think it was a bit of the following

- Contador, coming back from suspension, races till late 2012, instead of his usual early season exit
- Then, he had a lot of endorsement commitments in the off season, so he had to travel a lot
- He starts the season with either too little training or too little rest (or a combination of the two)
- He tries to catch up on form during the season, forces himself in Oman and Tirreno, getting sick in the latter
- races PV in horrible conditions, (was pretty bad in it too)
- goes to dauphine, sucks
- probaby overtrains for the Tour


- Is better than Froome in the canadian races

 

[Netserk]

Re:

To be realistic on whether a 2013 repeat is likely, one would have to first understand what caused 2013. Is there any consensus on that?

Not professional enough over the winter. The base wasn't there.

He showed in Ruta that the base is there this year. He also looks thinner/sharper now than in '13.

 

[Netserk]

Re: Re:

To be realistic on whether a 2013 repeat is likely, one would have to first understand what caused 2013. Is there any consensus on that?

Don't think it the team or Contador ever came up with in explanation, but I think it was a bit of the following

- Contador, coming back from suspension, races till late 2012, instead of his usual early season exit
- Then, he had a lot of endorsement commitments in the off season, so he had to travel a lot
- He starts the season with either too little training or too little rest (or a combination of the two)
- He tries to catch up on form during the season, forces himself in Oman and Tirreno, getting sick in the latter
- races PV in horrible conditions, (was pretty bad in it too)
- goes to dauphine, sucks
- probaby overtrains for the Tour


- Is better than Froome in the canadian races

In '13 he also raced late in the season and he was flying from the start in '14. The foundation wasn't in place. Not professional enough. Maybe he wanted to see how his teammates responded to the new training plans before training himself like how it's done in this new generation.

 

[Red Rick]

Re: Re:

To be realistic on whether a 2013 repeat is likely, one would have to first understand what caused 2013. Is there any consensus on that?

Not professional enough over the winter. The base wasn't there.

He showed in Ruta that the base is there this year. He also looks thinner/sharper now than in '13.

This, it's all 'bout that base

People getting worried cause he didn't massacre the pre season, but he was actually up there in Tirreno and Catalunya, he only got dropped by Porte (own mistake), Quintana (ask Ryo how good he is) and TGBM (the name says it, he's great)

 

[Jagartrott]

I heard De Jongh explain that them driving the bunch on the whole day was 'just to keep their riders safe'.
Amazing that this piece of remarkable wisdom has only just now surfaced. Want to keep safe? Easy, just keep a high tempo all day.

 

[ray j willings]

Tinko do seem to be pushing harder than usual.

 

[rhubroma]

If you've been to the Ligurian highlands then you would understand immediately why Tinkoff has taken the responsibility of the race. If you get car sick easily don't go there, for the narrow, serpentine rides will make you ill. There is literally a sharp curve about every 80 meters or so. The whole time. It's ridiculous.

No secrets here, or alternative motives, as De Jonge said. They just want to keep Contador safe and on his bike.

 

[The Hitch]

Re: Re:

To be realistic on whether a 2013 repeat is likely, one would have to first understand what caused 2013. Is there any consensus on that?

Don't think it the team or Contador ever came up with in explanation, but I think it was a bit of the following

- Contador, coming back from suspension, races till late 2012, instead of his usual early season exit
- Then, he had a lot of endorsement commitments in the off season, so he had to travel a lot
- He starts the season with either too little training or too little rest (or a combination of the two)
- He tries to catch up on form during the season, forces himself in Oman and Tirreno, getting sick in the latter
- races PV in horrible conditions, (was pretty bad in it too)
- goes to dauphine, sucks
- probaby overtrains for the Tour

None of the bolded matter. Ive seen guys including Contador peak after sucking all season, peak after doing a gt, peak despite having injuries. Some guys literally need 3 weeks to go from 0 to hero, look at Froome 2011 Vuelta, Andy Schleck 2011 and 2010.

Commitments in October 2012 should in no way have an impact on July 2013.

Its not like Froome had an ideal run up either, seeing as how he was on peak for 5 months before the Tour. But modern conditions allow for that.

- Is better than Froome in the canadian races

There are few things I find on this forum as pathetic as when Contador fans try to cite races Froome was a) disadvantaged in, or b) didn't give a monkeys ass about, as evidence for Contador>Froome.

Seriously? September races. What Tour de France champion ever performs well in races in September after winning the Tour? That includes Contador who usually just goes back to Pinto after the Tour.

 

[Electress]

Re: Re:

To be realistic on whether a 2013 repeat is likely, one would have to first understand what caused 2013. Is there any consensus on that?

Don't think it the team or Contador ever came up with in explanation, but I think it was a bit of the following

- Contador, coming back from suspension, races till late 2012, instead of his usual early season exit
- Then, he had a lot of endorsement commitments in the off season, so he had to travel a lot
- He starts the season with either too little training or too little rest (or a combination of the two)
- He tries to catch up on form during the season, forces himself in Oman and Tirreno, getting sick in the latter
- races PV in horrible conditions, (was pretty bad in it too)
- goes to dauphine, sucks
- probaby overtrains for the Tour

None of the bolded matter. Ive seen guys including Contador peak after sucking all season, peak after doing a gt, peak despite having injuries. Some guys literally need 3 weeks to go from 0 to hero, look at Froome 2011 Vuelta, Andy Schleck 2011 and 2010.

Commitments in October 2012 should in no way have an impact on July 2013.

Its not like Froome had an ideal run up either, seeing as how he was on peak for 5 months before the Tour. But modern conditions allow for that.

- Is better than Froome in the canadian races

There are few things I find on this forum as pathetic as when Contador fans try to cite races Froome was a) disadvantaged in, or b) didn't give a monkeys ass about, as evidence for Contador>Froome.

Seriously? September races. What Tour de France champion ever performs well in races in September after winning the Tour? That includes Contador who usually just goes back to Pinto after the Tour.

In fairness, Hitch, I don't think this was part of some long-running Contador vs Froome 'who is better at peak debate', (thank the merciful lord), I think it was a comment on his form's trajectory in 2013 and into 2014. No one seemed to me to be citing some Canadian race as proof that Contador was 'better' than Froome.

 

[LaFlorecita]

Re: Re:

There are few things I find on this forum as pathetic as when Contador fans try to cite races Froome was a) disadvantaged in, or b) didn't give a monkeys ass about, as evidence for Contador>Froome.

Seriously? September races. What Tour de France champion ever performs well in races in September after winning the Tour? That includes Contador who usually just goes back to Pinto after the Tour.

Your constant Contador & Contador fans bashing is quite pathetic too. Not sure what happened but gosh it's tiresome.

 

[Red Rick]

Re: Re:

Seriously? September races. What Tour de France champion ever performs well in races in September after winning the Tour? That includes Contador who usually just goes back to Pinto after the Tour.

That was a joke

There was a reason that part was seperated from the rest.


Note to self, don't joke without smileys, it will be used against me

Also, it was a guess, and things that don't take their toll physically may take their toll mentally, Contador is, after all, human

 

[The Hitch]

Re: Re:

There are few things I find on this forum as pathetic as when Contador fans try to cite races Froome was a) disadvantaged in, or b) didn't give a monkeys ass about, as evidence for Contador>Froome.

Seriously? September races. What Tour de France champion ever performs well in races in September after winning the Tour? That includes Contador who usually just goes back to Pinto after the Tour.

Your constant Contador & Contador fans bashing is quite pathetic too. Not sure what happened but gosh it's tiresome.

Oh yeah?

If its "constant", then you'll have no problem showing me the last 2 or 3 times I "bashed" Contador fans.

"Contador fans" aren't infallible beings. A lot of you can be very annoying. Some are straight up trolls. Red Rick isn't one of them actually most of the time, but whenever someone says something stupid I call them out, I don't care which silly tribe they claim to belong to.
Mentioning Contador beating Froome in the 2013 Canadian races, for any other reason than to celebrate a succesfull bet, (*edit, or joke* ) is silly. Its not the only occasion some Contador fan insists on claiming some race Froome clearly wasn't in form for, as a score for the Contador camp.

I call things out when i think they are stupid or annoying.

I don't care how the Contador Taliban and their leader Mullah Fleurhamed Omar react.

Ps, and rest assured no one wants Contador to do the double (and ainsi piss off the hypocrites) as much as me. But that doesn't mean I have to suddenly adhere to the party line of others just because they want the same thing.

 

[LaFlorecita]

"I call things out when i think they are stupid or annoying."
And so do I

 

[Red Rick]

Re: Re:

There are few things I find on this forum as pathetic as when Contador fans try to cite races Froome was a) disadvantaged in, or b) didn't give a monkeys ass about, as evidence for Contador>Froome.

Seriously? September races. What Tour de France champion ever performs well in races in September after winning the Tour? That includes Contador who usually just goes back to Pinto after the Tour.

Your constant Contador & Contador fans bashing is quite pathetic too. Not sure what happened but gosh it's tiresome.

Oh yeah?

If its "constant", then you'll have no problem showing me the last 2 or 3 times I "bashed" Contador fans.

"Contador fans" aren't infallible beings. A lot of you can be very annoying. Some are straight up trolls. Red Rick isn't one of them actually most of the time, but whenever someone says something stupid I call them out, I don't care which silly tribe they claim to belong to.
Mentioning Contador beating Froome in the 2013 Canadian races, for any other reason than to celebrate a succesfull bet, (*edit, or joke* ) is silly. Its not the only occasion some Contador fan insists on claiming some race Froome clearly wasn't in form for, as a score for the Contador camp.

I call things out when i think they are stupid or annoying.

I don't care how the Contador Taliban and their leader Mullah Fleurhamed Omar react.

Ps, and rest assured no one wants Contador to do the double (and ainsi piss off the hypocrites) as much as me. But that doesn't mean I have to suddenly adhere to the party line of others just because they want the same thing.

Point taken but, out of line much?

 

[LaFlorecita]

Re: Re:

Seriously? September races. What Tour de France champion ever performs well in races in September after winning the Tour? That includes Contador who usually just goes back to Pinto after the Tour.

That was a joke

Note to self, don't joke without smileys, it will be used against me

It was obvious to me at least. I am not sure if Hitch really did not get that or just saw an opportunity and grabbed it.

 

[Netserk]

Re: Re:

None of the bolded matter. Ive seen guys including Contador peak after sucking all season, peak after doing a gt, peak despite having injuries.

Example?

 

[Red Rick]

Re: Re:

None of the bolded matter. Ive seen guys including Contador peak after sucking all season, peak after doing a gt, peak despite having injuries.

Example?

I think peaking means winning GT's while sucking in this case is relative for Contador, which is inconsistent.

 

[Jelantik]

Re: Re:

I also noticed it. he was too keen on the bike

Glad I'm not the only one who noticed. He was spinning that very low gear, sat all the time... it reminded me of Port de Paillères 13' to be fair.
Those signs are very important, remember the Tour 13' when he said he was already having bad sensations in Corsica, he was doing his head tilt and was not out of the saddle on those first few climbs of the Tour.

He's gonna start doing a combination of seated Froome attacks and Pantani attacks to destroy the field. He will save his own superior trademarked AC style of mountain climbing for the Tour.

He really looked like Froome Today. But given that it's not his usual style, it's a bit worrying.

He looked fine to me. Besides he said already in his interview, the sensation is good. The next two days to come are still difficult stage so we'll see how his actual form is. But I doubt that he made the same mistake as 2013. He knows better now and train with more structured. So it's hard to say that his form isn't good.

The only thing that I can think of that might cause a little downside on the form is because he has minor fracture on his spine.(even none of us fans knows about that. We thought it's a small fall). That would have set him back a little compare to if he is 100% healthy going to altitude training camp. If I'm not mistaken he said that he was completely heal not after few days or a week before the giro start.

 

[The Hitch]

Re: Re:

None of the bolded matter. Ive seen guys including Contador peak after sucking all season, peak after doing a gt, peak despite having injuries.

Example?

What I meant was that in general guys have peaked after having any one of those things. For Contador 2 (after doing a gt) and 3 (injuries) are valid, not 1.

 

[Zam_Olyas]

Re: Re:

There are few things I find on this forum as pathetic as when Contador fans try to cite races Froome was a) disadvantaged in, or b) didn't give a monkeys ass about, as evidence for Contador>Froome.

Seriously? September races. What Tour de France champion ever performs well in races in September after winning the Tour? That includes Contador who usually just goes back to Pinto after the Tour.

Your constant Contador & Contador fans bashing is quite pathetic too. Not sure what happened but gosh it's tiresome.

Oh yeah?

If its "constant", then you'll have no problem showing me the last 2 or 3 times I "bashed" Contador fans.

"Contador fans" aren't infallible beings. A lot of you can be very annoying. Some are straight up trolls. Red Rick isn't one of them actually most of the time, but whenever someone says something stupid I call them out, I don't care which silly tribe they claim to belong to.
Mentioning Contador beating Froome in the 2013 Canadian races, for any other reason than to celebrate a succesfull bet, (*edit, or joke* ) is silly. Its not the only occasion some Contador fan insists on claiming some race Froome clearly wasn't in form for, as a score for the Contador camp.

I call things out when i think they are stupid or annoying.

I don't care how the Contador Taliban and their leader Mullah Fleurhamed Omar react.

Ps, and rest assured no one wants Contador to do the double (and ainsi piss off the hypocrites) as much as me. But that doesn't mean I have to suddenly adhere to the party line of others just because they want the same thing.

I hope you dont come hard on us basso fanboys or fan old men

 

[ILovecycling]

Re: Re:

None of the bolded matter. Ive seen guys including Contador peak after sucking all season, peak after doing a gt, peak despite having injuries.

Example?

I think peaking means winning GT's while sucking in this case is relative for Contador, which is inconsistent.

Which is a nonsense (if Hitch thinks what you wrote).Peaking is reaching the best form possible, not winning a GT. (2012 e.g.)


Also, Hi Zam

 

[Netserk]

Re: Re:

None of the bolded matter. Ive seen guys including Contador peak after sucking all season, peak after doing a gt, peak despite having injuries.

Example?

I think peaking means winning GT's while sucking in this case is relative for Contador, which is inconsistent.

When has he done that after sucking all season? He sucked in 2013. It's the only year where he has sucked all season and he didn't peak in the Tour there. He was shït in the Tour as well.

edit:

None of the bolded matter. Ive seen guys including Contador peak after sucking all season, peak after doing a gt, peak despite having injuries.

Example?

What I meant was that in general guys have peaked after having any one of those things. For Contador 2 (after doing a gt) and 3 (injuries) are valid, not 1.

Okay, just badly worded then.