Teams & Riders Alberto Contador Discussion Thread

[Koronin]

He needs some time. When Christian VanderVelde started with NBC he was very hesitant in what he was saying and he's gotten a lot better to the point I'd rather him be doing the races with Steve Schlanger than any of the other announcers we have for TV. There are still two things in which VanderVelde is still a bit hesitant with and that is saying much when one of his friends, who are still racing, are involved in something or not sure about telling stories of his time in the peloton. Last year at the Duaphine is a good example of that one that. During the ITT when Valverde started his time trial VanderVelde said I've got a fun story about him, me and an ITT way back when we were both young if you want to hear it. His commontator partners said, please tell the story, which he did. As long as they give him time he'll get better. I agree wish I was in Spain so I could hear him as well.

 

[tobydawq]

Re:

He needs some time. When Christian VanderVelde started with NBC he was very hesitant in what he was saying and he's gotten a lot better to the point I'd rather him be doing the races with Steve Schlanger than any of the other announcers we have for TV. There are still two things in which VanderVelde is still a bit hesitant with and that is saying much when one of his friends, who are still racing, are involved in something or not sure about telling stories of his time in the peloton. Last year at the Duaphine is a good example of that one that. During the ITT when Valverde started his time trial VanderVelde said I've got a fun story about him, me and an ITT way back when we were both young if you want to hear it. His commontator partners said, please tell the story, which he did. As long as they give him time he'll get better. I agree wish I was in Spain so I could hear him as well.

I'll take the bait. Would you relay the fun story to us?

 

[Koronin]

Re: Re:

He needs some time. When Christian VanderVelde started with NBC he was very hesitant in what he was saying and he's gotten a lot better to the point I'd rather him be doing the races with Steve Schlanger than any of the other announcers we have for TV. There are still two things in which VanderVelde is still a bit hesitant with and that is saying much when one of his friends, who are still racing, are involved in something or not sure about telling stories of his time in the peloton. Last year at the Duaphine is a good example of that one that. During the ITT when Valverde started his time trial VanderVelde said I've got a fun story about him, me and an ITT way back when we were both young if you want to hear it. His commontator partners said, please tell the story, which he did. As long as they give him time he'll get better. I agree wish I was in Spain so I could hear him as well.

I'll take the bait. Would you relay the fun story to us?

LOL, sure although I didn't post it because this is a thread for Alberto. But here's the story:
Christian again reiterated that this was early in their careers and Alejandro was not a very good time trailist at the time. He said he started right after Alejandro and it was a 1 minute difference. He said he caught Alejandro and Alejandro was cheering for him when he passed him. Christian said he is the only rider he's ever passed on during a TT that was cheering for the guy passing him. He said at that moment he knew he was going to have a lot of fun riding in the peloton with Alejandro. He said Alejandro did not disappoint on that realization.

 

[tobydawq]

Re: Re:

He needs some time. When Christian VanderVelde started with NBC he was very hesitant in what he was saying and he's gotten a lot better to the point I'd rather him be doing the races with Steve Schlanger than any of the other announcers we have for TV. There are still two things in which VanderVelde is still a bit hesitant with and that is saying much when one of his friends, who are still racing, are involved in something or not sure about telling stories of his time in the peloton. Last year at the Duaphine is a good example of that one that. During the ITT when Valverde started his time trial VanderVelde said I've got a fun story about him, me and an ITT way back when we were both young if you want to hear it. His commontator partners said, please tell the story, which he did. As long as they give him time he'll get better. I agree wish I was in Spain so I could hear him as well.

I'll take the bait. Would you relay the fun story to us?

LOL, sure although I didn't post it because this is a thread for Alberto. But here's the story:
Christian again reiterated that this was early in their careers and Alejandro was not a very good time trailist at the time. He said he started right after Alejandro and it was a 1 minute difference. He said he caught Alejandro and Alejandro was cheering for him when he passed him. Christian said he is the only rider he's ever passed on during a TT that was cheering for the guy passing him. He said at that moment he knew he was going to have a lot of fun riding in the peloton with Alejandro. He said Alejandro did not disappoint on that realization.

Nice. I'll continue this slight deviation: In the Tour of 2007, Michael Rasmussen passed Valverde on the ITT even though he started a full three minutes behind him. I was at a lecture held by Rasmussen last year, and he said that he had felt really sorry for Valverde because he was his favourite rider (and he still is to this day).

Okay - let's get back on track. What estimations do we have for Alberto's fat percentage based on his commentary?

 

[Koronin]

Re: Re:

He needs some time. When Christian VanderVelde started with NBC he was very hesitant in what he was saying and he's gotten a lot better to the point I'd rather him be doing the races with Steve Schlanger than any of the other announcers we have for TV. There are still two things in which VanderVelde is still a bit hesitant with and that is saying much when one of his friends, who are still racing, are involved in something or not sure about telling stories of his time in the peloton. Last year at the Duaphine is a good example of that one that. During the ITT when Valverde started his time trial VanderVelde said I've got a fun story about him, me and an ITT way back when we were both young if you want to hear it. His commontator partners said, please tell the story, which he did. As long as they give him time he'll get better. I agree wish I was in Spain so I could hear him as well.

I'll take the bait. Would you relay the fun story to us?

LOL, sure although I didn't post it because this is a thread for Alberto. But here's the story:
Christian again reiterated that this was early in their careers and Alejandro was not a very good time trailist at the time. He said he started right after Alejandro and it was a 1 minute difference. He said he caught Alejandro and Alejandro was cheering for him when he passed him. Christian said he is the only rider he's ever passed on during a TT that was cheering for the guy passing him. He said at that moment he knew he was going to have a lot of fun riding in the peloton with Alejandro. He said Alejandro did not disappoint on that realization.

Nice. I'll continue this slight deviation: In the Tour of 2007, Michael Rasmussen passed Valverde on the ITT even though he started a full three minutes behind him. I was at a lecture held by Rasmussen last year, and he said that he had felt really sorry for Valverde because he was his favourite rider (and he still is to this day).

Okay - let's get back on track. What estimations do we have for Alberto's fat percentage based on his commentary?

Yeah, and another example that Valverde is one of the very few riders to actually improve his time trialing after having been a pro for a long time. Although taking a year and a half off isn't exactly the most recommended way to do that. (Christian did allude to that along with being amazed by his ability to just continue to always race at the same level). On the other hand Alberto started off as a better time trialist.

Can we actually figure out fat percentage based on commentary?

 

[tobydawq]

People in this thread tend to be experts on fat percentages - this may be a tough challenge even for them, though.

 

[Koronin]

Re:

People in this thread tend to be experts on fat percentages - this may be a tough challenge even for them, though.

Ok. Then this should be a nice challenge for them.

 

[Valv.Piti]

I think we can say with (close to) certainty that Valverde didn't cheered Rasmussen on in that time trial. That was definitely one of the most humiliating things for him in his pro career, I remember watching that time trial and really didn't know to react when Rasmussen of all freaking riders just blew past him. But its very much true what tobydawq says, Rasmussen is a big Valverde-fan and always does some Twitter-update when he wins. I think that goes back to Courchevel when they both along with Armstrong and Paco Mancebo where in the final. The VandeVelde story is fun, by the way.

Aight, enough hijacking. I would also love to listen to Contador commentating!

 

[Gigs_98]

Here is an idea. The Juan and only goes to spanish eurosport, and Contador takes Flecha's role, so not only Spanish people can listen to him. And not only would we all get our fair share of Contador on Eurosport we also wouldn't be told anymore that every freakin speed bump is the hardest climb of the whole race. Then again, Contador would probably always tell us that he just produced his best numbers ever. Hard to say which one is better

 

[LaFlorecita]

Here is an idea. The Juan and only goes to spanish eurosport, and Contador takes Flecha's role, so not only Spanish people can listen to him. And not only would we all get our fair share of Contador on Eurosport we also wouldn't be told anymore that every freakin speed bump is the hardest climb of the whole race. Then again, Contador would probably always tell us that he just produced his best numbers ever. Hard to say which one is better

"It's a tough climb, great place to attack, and also I just set a new PR on my test climb, and ...."
But can you imagine all the Anglos complaining about his English, I mean they even complain about JA

 

[DFA123]

Here is an idea. The Juan and only goes to spanish eurosport, and Contador takes Flecha's role, so not only Spanish people can listen to him. And not only would we all get our fair share of Contador on Eurosport we also wouldn't be told anymore that every freakin speed bump is the hardest climb of the whole race. Then again, Contador would probably always tell us that he just produced his best numbers ever. Hard to say which one is better

Be careful what you wish for, Contador is painful to listen to as a commentator right now. I think there are two problems: firstly, his voice is pretty grating to listen to for hours on end. It's really scratchy and a bit whiny, he could certainly do with some coaching to improve this - vary his tone and intonation a bit more as well.

Secondly, he says absolutely nothing of interest. He must have so much interesting insight into racing and great stories, but he can't seem able to (or doesn't want to) communicate them. And so he ends up just speaking in platitudes and cliches.

I imagine both of these can and will improve over time though - particularly as he becomes more distanced from the current crop of riders. But i'm not sure it's a great career for him; it comes way more naturally to someone like Purito.

 

[LaFlorecita]

Yes, coaching to improve your voice, that'll work
Maybe you should let Eurosport ES know, they'll appreciate the input - especially because most comments I've seen on social media have been positive.

 

[McLovin]

We have a former cyclist at ESP Romania for about 5-6 years, I think and he is like he was born for this. I agree about Contador having an odd voice but still beter than Cadel.

 

[LaFlorecita]

I don't really care about voices, many people feel our ES commentator José Been has an annoying voice but I love her as a commentator, while NOS (public broadcaster) commentator Maarten Ducrot has a great voice for commentating but annoys the hell out of me. It's all about the commentary, not the voice. And Berto as co-commentator is just there for insight knowledge and interesting anecdotes. I can't say how well he's done in that area but the reactions on social media have been mainly positive.

 

[Netserk]

Re:

Yes, coaching to improve your voice, that'll work
Maybe you should let Eurosport ES know, they'll appreciate the input - especially because most comments I've seen on social media have been positive.

Uh, yeah. Ofc that would help. If you want to train your voice, you can improve a lot.

 

[Valv.Piti]

Re: Re:

Yes, coaching to improve your voice, that'll work
Maybe you should let Eurosport ES know, they'll appreciate the input - especially because most comments I've seen on social media have been positive.

Uh, yeah. Ofc that would help. If you want to train your voice, you can improve a lot.

I actually don't know if thats sarcastic, I don't think it is?

 

[LaFlorecita]

Re: Re:

Yes, coaching to improve your voice, that'll work
Maybe you should let Eurosport ES know, they'll appreciate the input - especially because most comments I've seen on social media have been positive.

Uh, yeah. Ofc that would help. If you want to train your voice, you can improve a lot.

Really? You can change not just your intonation and articulation but also the way your voice sounds, i.e. how your vocal chords function in daily speech without surgery? I didn't know that.

Still sounds like a ridiculous suggestion to me.

 

[DFA123]

Re: Re:

Yes, coaching to improve your voice, that'll work
Maybe you should let Eurosport ES know, they'll appreciate the input - especially because most comments I've seen on social media have been positive.

Uh, yeah. Ofc that would help. If you want to train your voice, you can improve a lot.

Really? You can change not just your intonation and articulation but also the way your voice sounds, i.e. how your vocal chords function in daily speech without surgery? I didn't know that.

Still sounds like a ridiculous suggestion to me.

It doesn't have to be anything drastic; just talking with rounder vowels and richer tones. Varying intonation more... pretty easy stuff to learn - every actor has gone through the process. A lot of people can do it naturally;for example they have a different voice on the telephone than when talking to their friends in a bar.
But some can't and need training for it. Look at the difference in the way for example Rob Hatch speaks on air, compared to in more informal settings.

Either way, Contador's voice is pretty grating at the moment, and it wouldn't take a whole lot of effort to improve that aspect.

 

[LaFlorecita]

Re: Re:

A lot of people can do it naturally;for example they have a different voice on the telephone than when talking to their friends in a bar.
But some can't and need training for it. Look at the difference in the way for example Rob Hatch speaks on air, compared to in more informal settings.

You're right, I hadn't thought about that. But seems like a weird thing to expect from an ex-pro who's just been asked to do a couple races for Eurosport for fun.

 

[DFA123]

Re: Re:

A lot of people can do it naturally;for example they have a different voice on the telephone than when talking to their friends in a bar.
But some can't and need training for it. Look at the difference in the way for example Rob Hatch speaks on air, compared to in more informal settings.

You're right, I hadn't thought about that. But seems like a weird thing to expect from an ex-pro who's just been asked to do a couple races for Eurosport for fun.

For sure, if it's just going to be a one off thing then there's not really much point. But if he's going to be doing it semi-regularly for the next 10 years, it would be a cool thing to improve.

 

[Koronin]

He can get better with adding interesting knowledge information and stories. That'll take time. Hence the reason I talked about VanderVelde and ended up hijacking the thread unintentionally. He retired after the 2013 season and started working for NBC in 2014. It took him until last year to be comfortable enough doing race commentary to start telling stories (hence the Valverde story at the Duaphine). At the Tour he's not in the broadcast booth, they have him, Bob Rolle and an actually announcer doing different things talking about specific things. It took Christian about a year to get comfortable in that roll to a point. It was the 2015 Tour when he realized how much he knows that surprised the others. Again a brief Valverde story and his issues with high altitude. When Valverde was struggling on the one stage they other announcers were talking about that and Christian just said something about everyone knows he's struggles with high altitude. The other announcers looked at him and what are you talking about. Christian said, it's common knowledge in the peloton. We've know that for years. Then said he's lost more Tour podiums than I ever had a shot at and than he would care to remember due to high altitude. So having said all of that Contador should improve and as he gets more comfortable he should start talking more about what he knows and tell stories. However, it also may take something like what happened with Christian for him to realize that not everyone knows what he knows. Christian had no clue that what was common knowledge in the peloton wasn't to everyone else. Contador will just need one of those moments to realize that everyone doesn't know what he does and then will need to be comfortable enough to start telling stories. It should come, but it's going to take some time.

 

[LaFlorecita]

I found this thread on a Spanish forum, about Berto's commentary:
http://forodeciclismo.mforos.mobi/30984/12957403-al-berto-el-profeta-en-antena/

Seems most enjoyed his commentary, although he still has to learn quite a bit, they liked his technical and tactical insight and anecdotes.

 

[LaFlorecita]

An interesting snippet from an interview with Valverde in El País

VALVERDE. Con Alberto sí que me he obsesionado un poco. Con Contador. Hemos tenido los dos mucha rivalidad deportiva, pero en lo personal, ningún problema. Y mira, lo que yo quería en el Tour, él sí lo pudo hacer. Creo que nunca lo ganaré.

https://elpais.com/elpais/2018/03/05/eps/1520270766_926702.amp.html?__twitter_impression=true

"I was a little obsessed with Alberto. Look, what I wanted in the Tour, he was able to achieve."

Many of us speculated about his obsession with Berto but Valverde fans often called this ridiculous

 

[Red Rick]

I always thought it was just a little extra competitiveness among compatriots. Pretty admirable if he's willing to admit this.

 

[Koronin]

Re:

An interesting snippet from an interview with Valverde in El País

VALVERDE. Con Alberto sí que me he obsesionado un poco. Con Contador. Hemos tenido los dos mucha rivalidad deportiva, pero en lo personal, ningún problema. Y mira, lo que yo quería en el Tour, él sí lo pudo hacer. Creo que nunca lo ganaré.

https://elpais.com/elpais/2018/03/05/eps/1520270766_926702.amp.html?__twitter_impression=true

"I was a little obsessed with Alberto. Look, what I wanted in the Tour, he was able to achieve."

Many of us speculated about his obsession with Berto but Valverde fans often called this ridiculous

Interesting. I always thought it was more just a rivalry between two great Spaniards who wanted to beat each other more because they are both Spaniards than Bala being obsessed with Alberto.

Very interesting conversations. I find this to be a very interesting comment by Bala:

" Antes realmente bajaba el rendimiento mucho con la edad, pero hoy día no baja tanto. El ciclismo de ahora no es el de antes, es totalmente diferente, no tiene nada que ver, el cuerpo aguanta mucho más. No se va a la velocidad de antes. Se corre diferente. Todo es mucho más medido. Los entrenamientos, todo. Todos estamos muy igualados. ¿Haces pesas?"

This is google translates translation: "Before, performance really dropped a lot with age, but today it does not go down that much. Cycling is not the same as before, it is totally different, it has nothing to do, the body holds much more. It does not go at the speed of before. It runs differently. Everything is much more measured. The trainings, everything. We are all very equal. Do you do weights?"