Altitude Blues

[Boeing]

How does one adjust to it well enough to benefit from the elevation for fitness?

I went from sea level into 5 days at 8000 plus and it sucked. first day on the roadie in Boulder was ok. But up in WY at 8000+ on the mountain bike I was punch drunk sleepless nights and nauseous. and no sustained power and back at sea level I don't think I got much out of it

Over 40 now and don't remember it being a problem in the past. what are some steps to help accelerate the acclimation process.

 

[Guidokcd]

You have to build up to it. You can't do your normal workout or ride on the first few days. Maybe only the last two of the five. Pleny of fluids.

 

[forty four]

ever noticed how fast you go at altitude? less air density anyways i feel oddly good at altitude at least regarding 5500-7500ft range weirdly it puts me in a good mood and my power compared to other cyclists is good. i do remember as a teenager being at altitude and me and my friends getting tired easy when running around. now in better shape i feel much better although i once did a 90mile race up to a summit at almost 9000ft and remember trying to sprint off the saddle when already exhausted and collapsed back into the saddle i will always remember that day though i did get away from the skinny climber chasing me lol.

 

[CoachFergie]

It's like any environmental extreme you need to allow time to adapt to it. It's not something you can train for. A group of Kiwi's rode a Tour at altitude in China and spent time hooked to a facemask breathing hypoxic air. Others have tried to prepare for heat by training indoors with heaters. All ends in tears. Only environment I would avoid is where pollution levels are high like Beijing.

 

[Guttercat]

How does one adjust to it well enough to benefit from the elevation for fitness?

I went from sea level into 5 days at 8000 plus and it sucked. first day on the roadie in Boulder was ok. But up in WY at 8000+ on the mountain bike I was punch drunk sleepless nights and nauseous. and no sustained power and back at sea level I don't think I got much out of it

Over 40 now and don't remember it being a problem in the past. what are some steps to help accelerate the acclimation process.

Boeing,

It's late and I'm on a wicked work schedule lately, so won't have time to reasearch how altitude specifically affects one at varying ages, and post some relevant links.

Heading for bed and wish I had the time to adress this as I have some expertise and interest in this area.

If I get some free time in the next few days I'll be following this thread and hopefully can add something of value to you. Or, I can learn from those more knowledgeable than I...hopefully they will chime in.

And P.S. here's a link for starters although I cannot verify/endorse its source:
http://www.exercisephysiologists.com/Altitude/index.html

 

[The Bald Eagle]

Here is another link that You may find helpful.www.pponline.co.uk/encyc/0697.htm

 

[Boeing]

Boeing,

It's late and I'm on a wicked work schedule lately, so won't have time to reasearch how altitude specifically affects one at varying ages, and post some relevant links.

Heading for bed and wish I had the time to adress this as I have some expertise and interest in this area.

If I get some free time in the next few days I'll be following this thread and hopefully can add something of value to you. Or, I can learn from those more knowledgeable than I...hopefully they will chime in.

And P.S. here's a link for starters although I cannot verify/endorse its source:
http://www.exercisephysiologists.com/Altitude/index.html

Thanks

In simple form I would like to know how to get better sleep at altitude in a short 5 day trip. I don't think I was recovering at all

 

[Guttercat]

Thanks

In simple form I would like to know how to get better sleep at altitude in a short 5 day trip. I don't think I was recovering at all

OK the article I linked to is heady stuff and perhaps more than you want to wade through.

This one is still quite scientific but less cumbersome, and short/to the point. Read the whole thing for understanding into the physiology of what is happening to your body at altitude. This will help you in decision making as to how you will approach your next jaunt into the void.

A few paragraphs down, ignore the part about pre-medicating, but pay attention to how you can better acclimatize with a little planning and perhaps key: hydration.

It also talks touches on the chemical imbalances caused by hypoxia (low oxygen in the body). This is what causes poor sleep...that and frequent wakening due to hypoxia and cardiovascular changes.

Good article! http://www.sportsci.org/encyc/altitaccl/altitaccl.html

Edit to add, here's an excerpt of the article that most pertains to your concerns:

Sleep

Despite fatigue, travelers to altitude often have unrestful sleep because of diminished stage-3, stage-4, and rapid eye-movement sleep. In addition to a diminished quality of sleep, many individuals exhibit periodic breathing at intermediate altitudes, and all do at altitudes over 6,300 meters. Periodic breathing, waxing and waning respirations with periods of apnea, interferes with the already suboptimal arterial oxygenation in the hypobaric environment to produce cycles of even more profound arterial oxygen desaturation. Periodic breathing occurs during 24% of all sleep at 2,440 meters. Lastly, sleep at altitude is characterized by frequent wakening. All of these produce an unsatisfying sleep and contribute to daytime fatigue.

As with the other symptoms of AMS at intermediate altitude, sleep can be expected to return to normal with acclimatization. Sleep at very high altitude will remain persistently disturbed.

Fluids/Dehydration

A diuresis takes place with loss of water and sodium during the body's attempt to acclimatize to altitude. This places the individual at risk for dehydration, especially when the individual is involved in maximal exercise.

This diuresis is a component of a successful adaptation to altitude. Acute mountain sickness, an unsuccessful adaptation, is characterized by a diminished diuresis, with fluids that are normally in the plasma volume moving into the cells and interstitium, resulting in facial and extremity edema.

Intermediate altitude conditioning commonly involves exposure to a dry and cool atmosphere. A large amount of body water can be lost that will not be apparent to the exercising traveler. Whether symptoms of AMS are present or not, drinking increased volume of fluids is recommended to prevent dehydration, especially with exercise.

Appetite/Nutrition

Nausea and anorexia are common symptoms of AMS at intermediate altitude. Because extra fluid intake is important to replace the fluid loss from high-altitude diuresis, inability to drink and additional losses from vomiting may worsen and prolong the illness. A high-carbohydrate diet may be beneficial, and a low-salt diet may reduce tissue edema. A liquid carbohydrate diet may be easier to tolerate at first exposure to altitude. Because individuals with low iron stores are unable to increase their red cell mass in acclimatization, the diet should be supplemented with iron for those at risk, particularly menstruating females.

 

[redtreviso]

My altitude story..

Home 650ft..century rider/pretend road racer.. 185 FT maybe 188...30 yrs old..125 lbs climb above average..Rode 250mi a week..Best shape of my life.

Went to Colo,, stopped in Trinidad rode to 10,000 ft a little weak but not unexpected. Next day in Boulder could barely climb anything past 6000 ft..In 2 weeks hardly got better.. My absolute HR threshold climbing(8,000 to 9,000) was 170..at 171 it was a countdown until I blew up and had to stop..and this was barely plodding along with the lowest gears my bike would hold 39/28..
I rested, I ate and hydrated..Nothing much helped, I even got worse. In hindsight I would have liked to have seen my blood oxy levels...Some bottled O2 re-saturation might have worked wonders..OTOH I wonder after my first serious depletion if my HCT might have dropped never to recover. Anyway..The only lesson I came home with was that first day with my 650ft legs and blood was good, after that not so much. I have my doubts that anyone from low altitudes is going to do much acclimation in a week or two..They might recover a little better over time but never see performance equal to their home altitude. IMHO

 

[Guttercat]

My altitude story..

Home 650ft..century rider/pretend road racer.. 185 FT maybe 188...30 yrs old..125 lbs climb above average..Rode 250mi a week..Best shape of my life.

Went to Colo,, stopped in Trinidad rode to 10,000 ft a little weak but not unexpected. Next day in Boulder could barely climb anything past 6000 ft..In 2 weeks hardly got better.. My absolute HR threshold climbing(8,000 to 9,000) was 170..at 171 it was a countdown until I blew up and had to stop..and this was barely plodding along with the lowest gears my bike would hold 39/28..
I rested, I ate and hydrated..Nothing much helped, I even got worse. In hindsight I would have liked to have seen my blood oxy levels...Some bottled O2 re-saturation might have worked wonders..OTOH I wonder after my first serious depletion if my HCT might have dropped never to recover. Anyway..The only lesson I came home with was that first day with my 650ft legs and blood was good, after that not so much. I have my doubts that anyone from low altitudes is going to do much acclimation in a week or two..They might recover a little better over time but never see performance equal to their home altitude. IMHO

Unless you have a bone marrow disorder, blood dyscrasia, or kidney issues...your Hct won't "drop, never to recover". In fact it won't "drop" at all...

Almost immediately, because of "Chemoreceptors" and Erythropoeitin, you will begin to produce more RBC's.

Full acclimation can take a few weeks, but as long a person is healthy, yes they can perform just as well relative to their "home altitude".

I guess I'm one of the lucky ones that feel physically better at altitude (5-10,000ft). Of course I get the the slight headaches, "air hunger" during workouts during the first couple weeks, but my energy level goes up almost immdediately and I just feel physically good. Maybe a little fatigue for a couple days, but not too bad.

BTW, you went straight to 10,000 ft and really taxed your cardio system ,not to mention there's a whole lot going on chemically in your body due to the process that throws you out of whack. Not surprised that it left you feeling like crap for a few days. Altitude sickness even at mid-range altitudes and the effects thereof ...take a few days to completely recover from.

And yes, everyone reacts a little differently.

Fascinating stuff though, so I enjoy the topic!

 

[redtreviso]

Unless you have a bone marrow disorder, blood dyscrasia, or kidney issues...your Hct won't "drop, never to recover". In fact it won't "drop" at all...

Almost immediately, because of "Chemoreceptors" and Erythropoeitin, you will begin to produce more RBC's.

Full acclimation can take a few weeks, but as long a person is healthy, yes they can perform just as well relative to their "home altitude".

I guess I'm one of the lucky ones that feel physically better at altitude (5-10,000ft). Of course I get the the slight headaches, "air hunger" during workouts during the first couple weeks, but my energy level goes up almost immdediately and I just feel physically good. Maybe a little fatigue for a couple days, but not too bad.

BTW, you went straight to 10,000 ft and really taxed your cardio system ,not to mention there's a whole lot going on chemically in your body due to the process that throws you out of whack. Not surprised that it left you feeling like crap for a few days. Altitude sickness even at mid-range altitudes and the effects thereof ...take a few days to completely recover from.

And yes, everyone reacts a little differently.

Fascinating stuff though, so I enjoy the topic!

My ability to absorb oxygen barely recovered....I went up there 4 years in a row and it happened every time..Once I depleted myself really good then I never was as good as when I first arrived. The worsening factor could have been that I just rode a lot..If my blood was not out of whack I think there was just not enough oxygen for me to get saturated again..I wouldn't go so far as to get blood tests but a finger oxymeter would have been interesting.

 

[Guttercat]

My ability to absorb oxygen barely recovered....I went up there 4 years in a row and it happened every time..Once I depleted myself really good then I never was as good as when I first arrived. The worsening factor could have been that I just rode a lot..If my blood was not out of whack I think there was just not enough oxygen for me to get saturated again..I wouldn't go so far as to get blood tests but a finger oxymeter would have been interesting.

Right. Well you anecdotally proved four times over that people can't just go from sea level to altitude (of any substance), and hammer away.

There's a reason people spend a couple of weeks at basecamp just lounging around before they make an ascent on a mountain.

If you're interested, try muddling through the articles I linked to in this thread. It'll describe some of compromise/chemical and fluid imbalances that occur which lead to symptoms you've described of feeling worse, not better.

Again, cool stuff. Cooler than bike parts even!

 

[redtreviso]

Right. Well you anecdotally proved four times over that people can't just go from sea level to altitude (of any substance), and hammer away.

There's a reason people spend a couple of weeks at basecamp just lounging around before they make an ascent on a mountain.

If you're interested, try muddling through the articles I linked to in this thread. It'll describe some of compromise/chemical and fluid imbalances that occur which lead to symptoms you've described of feeling worse, not better.

Again, cool stuff. Cooler than bike parts even!

"Just lounging around" is a pertinent point. Going from (low or)sea level to 9,000+ and riding into altitude acclimation over a couple of week's time could be impossible for some(me). From your comments and articles I'd say there is much more to altitude bonk than oxygen depletion. A lowlander putting themselves in that condition is not going to see some miracle in 10 or 12 days, especially if they go critical each day. They'd be better off doing absolutely nothing...but then again they might not be bothered in the first place.

 

[Missael]

hello guys ...

its really nice post....

i just liked it....

thanks....

 

[Boeing]

Right. Well you anecdotally proved four times over that people can't just go from sea level to altitude (of any substance), and hammer away.

Is it true though that if you are going to altitude, your best day is going to be your first day?

Someone told me that once and I have no way to back it.

I think perhaps I went too hard my first day and consequently did not recover for the remaining trip. In the end I did not benefit from the trip back here at sea level?

How long can one expect to train or recover at altitude before they can feel the results back on sea level?

Question for anyone: Does ones age have anything to do with it?

I did a little searching and found this http://jap.physiology.org/cgi/content/abstract/19/3/483

Work tolerance: age and altitude
D. B. Dill 1, S. Robinson 1, B. Balke 1, and J. L. Newton 1

1 Department of Anatomy and Physiology, Indiana University, Bloomington, Indiana

The work capacity at sea level and high altitude has been measured on nine men, five of whom had taken part in similar studies at high altitudes from 18 to 33 years earlier. Except for a few measurements on the treadmill at sea level each subject rode the bicycle ergometer; the brakeload was increased minute-by-minute until his limit was reached. The maximum capacity for oxygen intake declined with age both at high altitude and at sea level. Individual responses varied greatly: the most fit individual, age 54, had about as great an oxygen intake on the ergometer at Pb 455 mm Hg as had a man one-half his age at sea level. After 5 or 6 weeks of acclimatization a man of 71 attained at Pb 485 a greater oxygen intake per minute and per kilogram than that of a man of 27. At that barometric pressure the limiting oxygen intake on the bicycle ergometer may be only one-half of the sea-level value 2 or 3 days after arrival; after 4–6 weeks it may range from two-thirds to five-sixths of the sea-level value.
adaptation to altitude; altitude and heart rate; altitude and maximum O2 intake; altitude and respiratory volume