Altitude training for cobbled classics

[IndianCyclist]

It seems Sky's training method for the cobbled classics didn't pay off. The cobbled classics have always been about power and the Sky riders just didn't have enough left after 200 km. Probably increasing the oxygen carrying capacity did not help with the increase in muscle power. Also there is no recovery sections in the cobbled classics like downhills.
I still believe that it would help them in the ardennes classics but with morale low and no main contender, i dont not see them getting a significant result. Stannard went well in Milan San Remo especially at the end.
For me the biggest disappointment is Edvald Boasson Hagen.. What is happening with him? He has the VO2 max of 84-86 near about Thor's. He should be achieving great results. But he is reduced to being a teammate of others.

 

[wiggos sideburn]

Think they will do well in the Ardennes with guys like Froome and Henao. They just need to change the way to prepare for the cobbles maybe spend more time preparing in Belgium. They're main problem was guys like Thomas who was one of their main leaders had terrible positioning which comes from gaining more classics race experience

 

[kjetilraknerud]

You can't win a classic with science alone. Science helps, but it's not enough.

 

[gerundium]

Their main man Thomas might have been enormously strong but he kept hitting the deck. The power might be there but the squeezing and constant fighting for position can only be trained through experience.

 

[Michele]

That's why its a good idea to do races like the 3 days of la Panne.

I do agree that it ws,asn't a good idea for the cobbled classic althought I like the approach of trying new ways to get better results.

 

[trevim]

I just love the fact that there is still something in cycling that Sky can't break down in numbers and equations. Experience, feeling and tactics are still part of the game.

 

[42x16ss]

Sky are approaching racing from a purely physiological point of view. They can't approach these races the same way as Grand Tours and stage races in the alps and expect immediate results. The only way to get good at the hard man classics is to race them.

 

[martinvickers]

Sky are approaching racing from a purely physiological point of view. They can't approach these races the same way as Grand Tours and stage races in the alps and expect immediate results. The only way to get good at the hard man classics is to race them.

Or spend another 10m£ of Uncle Rupert's money putting down pave all the way up tiede....

 

[Jelantik]

I just love the fact that there is still something in cycling that Sky can't break down in numbers and equations. Experience, feeling and tactics are still part of the game.

well said. Stage racer right now has turned into pure science. Sky has got the number to control the outcome. At least one thing that we learn, classic will remain as testament that "cycling is still a form of art". LONG LIVE CLASSICS!!!

 

[iZnoGouD]

V02 is not a predictor of performance

 

[maltiv]

For me the biggest disappointment is Edvald Boasson Hagen.. What is happening with him? He has the VO2 max of 84-86 near about Thor's. He should be achieving great results. But he is reduced to being a teammate of others.

He has measured 90 at his best, way better than Thor. His test results are superior to anyone on Sky, in fact. Unfortunately test results aren't everything.

For once, his technique on cobbles is downright terrible. He looks super stressed, uncomfortable and downright afraid. I'm sure he'd do much better in AGR if he starts.

Secondly, there's his troublesome stomach. Not being able to eat energy gels, drink energy drinks etc certainly can't be an advantage in 250 km+ races. Particularly in cobbled races I'm sure it's hard to eat sandwiches while racing, which is all he can eat without getting diarrhea...

 

[El Pistolero]

He has measured 90 at his best, way better than Thor. His test results are superior to anyone on Sky, in fact. Unfortunately test results aren't everything.

For once, his technique on cobbles is downright terrible. He looks super stressed, uncomfortable and downright afraid. I'm sure he'd do much better in AGR if he starts.

Secondly, there's his troublesome stomach. Not being able to eat energy gels, drink energy drinks etc certainly can't be an advantage in 250 km+ races. Particularly in cobbled races I'm sure it's hard to eat sandwiches while racing, which is all he can eat without getting diarrhea...

Lol, AGR is also stressfull.

 

[Sophistic82]

It seems Sky's training method for the cobbled classics didn't pay off. The cobbled classics have always been about power and the Sky riders just didn't have enough left after 200 km. Probably increasing the oxygen carrying capacity did not help with the increase in muscle power. Also there is no recovery sections in the cobbled classics like downhills.

First: An increase in aerobic capacity would definietly help, unless the race is just 100 meter long.
BUT: Altitude training for the classics can be very problematic if the timing is not 100% correct. The increase in Vo2max gained at altitude will only last for 2-3 days after returning back to sea level, then performance level is usual below average for 2-3 weeks before returning back to normal. So if you want to perform well at several races, do the altitude camp early.
An alternative would be to come down before the first race and then use altitude tents/masks for the remaining classics season or have a permanent camp and go down just for the races, like the track runners do.

 

[kjetilraknerud]

Lol, AGR is also stressfull.

But the point was/is that he doesn't ride well on cobbles. No cobbles in AGR the last time I checked.

 

[wiggos sideburn]

He has measured 90 at his best, way better than Thor. His test results are superior to anyone on Sky, in fact. Unfortunately test results aren't everything.

For once, his technique on cobbles is downright terrible. He looks super stressed, uncomfortable and downright afraid. I'm sure he'd do much better in AGR if he starts.

Secondly, there's his troublesome stomach. Not being able to eat energy gels, drink energy drinks etc certainly can't be an advantage in 250 km+ races. Particularly in cobbled races I'm sure it's hard to eat sandwiches while racing, which is all he can eat without getting diarrhea...

Well you will be pleased to know he is racing in the AGR

 

[maltiv]

Lol, AGR is also stressfull.

I didn't say he can't handle stress, I said he can't handle cobbles

 

[El Pistolero]

I didn't say he can't handle stress, I said he can't handle cobbles

He can't handle the narrow and twisty roads of the Ronde. Same goes for AGR.

AGR course is different than the WC. That was mostly on wide roads.

 

[Roderick]

He can't handle the narrow and twisty roads of the Ronde. Same goes for AGR.

AGR course is different than the WC. That was mostly on wide roads.

Yeah but in de Ronde things get nervous at about 120k from the finish. In AGR it doesn't get that nervous until the Eyserbos

 

[maltiv]

He can't handle the narrow and twisty roads of the Ronde. Same goes for AGR.

If that were the case, then he'd be badly positioned during RVV...which he weren't. He always went into the cobbled climbs in a good position. In the final hill, he was on the wheel of Sagan. So the positioning on said narrow and twisty roads were perfect. Same with P-R, he went into Arenberg in 2nd position.

There's only a problem when cobbles are involved. In u23 he was good at everything but cobbles, and that's still the case. Too bad he nonetheless makes cobbled classics his number 1 priority every year...

 

[Pentacycle]

How did this turn into an EBH discussion thread?

It seems Sky's scientific background is lacking a bit here. The reason they did altitude training instead of TA or PN, was that riders wouldn't even have the condition with which they started, at the end of these races. But didn't they forget that might be just normal fatigue, and that supercompensation from these races gives you an edge in MSR and cobbles?

I doubt they were this stupid though, but they should've known about the exhausting effects of an altitude camp as well. It was probably more like trial and error. If it worked, they could use it on their GT riders as well, and if it failed it wasn't such a loss. After all, they didn't have any big names on their classics squad. And they definitely got a lot of attention whatever the outcome.

 

[IndianCyclist]

He has measured 90 at his best, way better than Thor. His test results are superior to anyone on Sky, in fact. Unfortunately test results aren't everything.

For once, his technique on cobbles is downright terrible. He looks super stressed, uncomfortable and downright afraid. I'm sure he'd do much better in AGR if he starts.

Secondly, there's his troublesome stomach. Not being able to eat energy gels, drink energy drinks etc certainly can't be an advantage in 250 km+ races. Particularly in cobbled races I'm sure it's hard to eat sandwiches while racing, which is all he can eat without getting diarrhea...

Ahh... but if this is the case then why is Sky (being a highly scientific team) not advising him to concentrate on races which will suit him rather than 250+ km races. At least he would be winning races rather than being reduced to helper status. Also 90 means he should be doing general classification for GTs provided he loses weight and Sky are masters of that technique. Or is it that Sky are partial to British riders? Kinda confusing. I hope he ends his career with something substantial. Its sad to see a superb talent going to waste.

 

[maltiv]

How did this turn into an EBH discussion thread?

I don't know, but him being the only individual mentioned in the OP might be one reason

 

[Netserk]

I don't know, but him being the only individual mentioned in the OP might be one reason

Stannard was also mentioned

 

[maltiv]

Ahh... but if this is the case then why is Sky (being a highly scientific team) not advising him to concentrate on races which will suit him rather than 250+ km races. At least he would be winning races rather than being reduced to helper status. Also 90 means he should be doing general classification for GTs provided he loses weight and Sky are masters of that technique. Or is it that Sky are partial to British riders? Kinda confusing. I hope he ends his career with something substantial. Its sad to see a superb talent going to waste.

He can't really be much lighter than he was in TDF last year. He is probably too heavily built naturally to be able to do that.

Imo he's more or less the same type of rider as LL Sanchez, but with a better sprint. If he ever realizes that then he'd be a lot more successful...

 

[Afrank]

How did this turn into an EBH discussion thread?

It seems Sky's scientific background is lacking a bit here. The reason they did altitude training instead of TA or PN, was that riders wouldn't even have the condition with which they started, at the end of these races. But didn't they forget that might be just normal fatigue, and that supercompensation from these races gives you an edge in MSR and cobbles?

I doubt they were this stupid though, but they should've known about the exhausting effects of an altitude camp as well. It was probably more like trial and error. If it worked, they could use it on their GT riders as well, and if it failed it wasn't such a loss. After all, they didn't have any big names on their classics squad. And they definitely got a lot of attention whatever the outcome.

I'm thinking this is a bigger reason for their shortcomings in PR and RVV than their training for the races was. They have guys that have the potential to do well, but it takes a lot more than potential to win and do well in the one day cobbled classics.
That and luck, they just didn't seem to have very good luck in PR and RVV.