Anger at the idiots - why?

[Archibald]

have just read some of the helmet wearing thread and seen the aggression towards each side, and also having seen discussions regarding red light running get just as aggressive between riders and drivers...
I'm finding that I'm getting more p*ssed off myself when I see commuters doing dumb sh*t on the roads - especially running red lights.

The question is, why do we get so angry at these idiots?
It's their choice and will be their consequences that they must wear when they come unstuck...

I do get p*ssed off at the red light runners simply because, not only does it make us all look bad, but adds to the hatred that motorists feel towards us. It's that hatred that will get other innocent and law-abiding riders killed as we all become targets by motorists who won't care about hitting us, or actively running us off the roads. The more that hatred grows, the more their apathy will grow towards clocking us and smashing us up...

If this sort of thing annoys you, why?

 

[9000ft]

I'd say hate is a strong word, but it does bother me and want to stop them and tell red light runners why what they're doing is harming us all for the reasons you mention.

I always stop at red lights and if there is any traffic at all present, I wait for the light to turn. I will run the light if no cars are present or approaching, if the light is traffic triggered and it's not reading me on my bike. I also slow way down for stop signs. Stop and yield right of way if cars are present or approaching. Otherwise I'll do a rolling stop, even if no one is around.

 

[180mmCrank]

Vive la difference

One man's meat is another man's poison! These are the things we will argue in perpetuity...

 

[tubularglue]

running red light = idiot anger ?

If you run red lights half the time = half idiot
run a red light one out of a hundred times = one percent idiot

cyclist break the law
motorist break the law

don't see the logic

 

[Anonymous]

I do get p*ssed off at the red light runners simply because, not only does it make us all look bad, but adds to the hatred that motorists feel towards us. It's that hatred that will get other innocent and law-abiding riders killed as we all become targets by motorists who won't care about hitting us, or actively running us off the roads. The more that hatred grows, the more their apathy will grow towards clocking us and smashing us up...

If this sort of thing annoys you, why?

That's exactly why I get mad too. I once saw a mother on a bike with her child in a child safety seat on the back run a red light. Not only that. she rode through the pedestrians walking on the green! WTF!?!?! Go ahead and kill yourself, sure... but don't endanger your kid too!

And it's the generalizations that drivers make when they have one incident with an idiotic bike messenger or commuter that does something illegal. They see that and they think all cyclists are the same when we are as different as the street racer teenager in a car and a seasoned adult that obeys the laws of the road.

 

[Big GMaC]

I am pretty sure many people's moral and logic circuits would blow up if you saw how the roads are used here! I may post photos when I get some

 

[Ferdinand Artichoke]

bubba gets angry...boo hoo!

That's exactly why I get mad too. I once saw a....blah blah... generalizations that drivers make when they have one incident with an idiotic bike messenger WTF..... and a seasoned adult that obeys the laws of the road.

Couriers say 'fu<k you roadie ***!'

More shame (and car doors) come upon cyclists with arrogant racer types... desparates to be seen as 'seasoned'! ...good onya ya tosser... You have no idea

why don't you just concentrate on what you're doing di<kwad?

 

[tubularglue]

this thread could get interesting.

I am going to run some more red lights on the way to work today, cause i want to infuriate every motorist that sees me, and **** off each messenger. It is going to be a great morning

I represent everything on two wheels pulling a chain jmo

 

[flyor64]

Can we vent here?

Exclusive to red-light runners and/or helmeltless riders?

What about groups (especially small...2-4 riders) that don't single up when cars approach?

Should we single up so the cars can get by easier or should we keep the road and force them to wait til they can pass safely? All the while hoping they do actually wait til it's safe to pass?

Like 180 said, we'll go 'round and 'round on these topics...

FWIW I find myself more in the "disappointed" category...not so much hate, as disappointed...

 

[RDV4ROUBAIX]

I'll never understand why anybody cares why I take a helmetless hour spin around the lake after a race, shopping trips with my grocery/beer bike, or early morning rides when absolutely nobody is around. Like in the Jobst Brandt thread I explained last season some loser, and total stranger mind you, actually had the nerve to ride up to me on one of my lake spins wanting to debate why I'm without brain bucket, needless to say I almost backhanded this fool right off his bike. Have no respect for the helmet Nazis, I'm actually with helmet most of the time is the ridiculous thing.

I also run red lights, especially when I'm training out past the suburbs. They're actually pushing for a law here in Minnesota to allow, you heard me, allow, make legal for cyclists to run lights and stop signs at low traffic levels. Amazing if it passes, but It wont change the way I've been riding for over 20 years. Although Flyor64 is absolutely right about groups hogging the road, which is why I'm adamant about giving space to motorists. The law here is 2 abreast if there's no shoulder.

All being said, I don't really give a flying you-know-what about what people think how I ride, and I don't need to justify my non-helmet wearing in certain situations. Talk, rave, cry, rant about it here. Whatever, to each his own I say.

 

[pedaling squares]

They're actually pushing for a law here in Minnesota to allow, you heard me, allow, make legal for cyclists to run lights and stop signs at low traffic levels. Amazing if it passes, but It wont change the way I've been riding for over 20 years.

That prospective law is a strange one. One rider's opinion of a low traffic level might differ from another's. ER visits might go up.

I roll stop signs of course when nobody is around, on the bike but never in the car. I shake my head when I see cyclists running red lights, even though nobody but them is likely to get hurt. An intersection controlled by a light usually has far higher traffic volume that one controlled by a sign. It just gives the anti-bike crowd one more reason to get angry and possibly vindictive. If we're not in a timed race, what are those extra 20 seconds going to do for us?

 

[RDV4ROUBAIX]

That prospective law is a strange one. One rider's opinion of a low traffic level might differ from another's. ER visits might go up.

No, because people who are running stop signs or lights are going to do it regardless. There's not going all of a sudden be this group that says, ok since there's a law allowing me to do this I think I will. People who ride timid and unsure of their surroundings or bike handling skills are going to stay that way and stop. Just like the mother with children in the backseat of the car who is in the right turn lane waits for a green light to turn, even though a right turn on a red is legal here, she doesn't want to chance it. I get it. I spectated this scenario from my bike once where an irate postal worker was honking at the mother to turn right and actually yelling in his little postal van to himself "turn you f-ing b*tch", so I yelled at him. "Please, don't shoot". Asswipe! I wanted to kick his teeth in, because it was clear for all to see she had two kids in the back. She wasn't trying to hold up traffic, ya know what I mean. Sorry, kind of went off on a tangent here.

If we're not in a timed race, what are those extra 20 seconds going to do for us?

7 a.m. on a Saturday morning when everybody is at home recovering from hangover, I'm crossing Bob Dylan's Highway 61 when you can maybe see 2 cars for as far as the eye can see and I'm running that light all the time. Believe me nobody is stepping on toes, and nobody cares what I'm doing because nobody is around. See what I mean?

 

[forty four]

i brake traffic laws but only when no one is around or it does not endanger me or inconvenience or anger drivers though some get mad even though im not in any way affecting them this i see as general anger from past experiences. i dont like when on small group rides when a car is following and cyclists wont go single file for ten seconds that is rude and inconvenient for the driver and i can understand there frustration in having to wait. as for helmets i really dont care what others do. i wear one 98%of the time as i have had concussions and seen helmets explode in crashes where without the rider would likely have been killed or permanently damaged. one or two head injuries can come back and haunt you later in life so to be avoided. i do find it funny when"tough guy racers" on fast group rides dont wear one as if the cement cares how cool they think they are when there skull hits at 40+ lol.

 

[pedaling squares]

No, because people who are running stop signs or lights are going to do it regardless. There's not going all of a sudden be this group that says, ok since there's a law allowing me to do this I think I will. People who ride timid and unsure of their surroundings or bike handling skills are going to stay that way and stop. Just like the mother with children in the backseat of the car who is in the right turn lane waits for a green light to turn, even though a right turn on a red is legal here, she doesn't want to chance it. I get it. I spectated this scenario from my bike once where an irate postal worker was honking at the mother to turn right and actually yelling in his little postal van to himself "turn you f-ing b*tch", so I yelled at him. "Please, don't shoot". Asswipe! I wanted to kick his teeth in, because it was clear for all to see she had two kids in the back. She wasn't trying to hold up traffic, ya know what I mean. Sorry, kind of went off on a tangent here.

7 a.m. on a Saturday morning when everybody is at home recovering from hangover, I'm crossing Bob Dylan's Highway 61 when you can maybe see 2 cars for as far as the eye can see and I'm running that light all the time. Believe me nobody is stepping on toes, and nobody cares what I'm doing because nobody is around. See what I mean?

OK, I see what you mean RDV. I guess I was looking at from it at the "lowest common denominator" perspective, ie what is the idiot among us going to think the law allows him to do. A bias from my profession probably. When I think of the light it's always at noon with medium-heavy traffic flow, because that's when the idiot among us makes his move.

 

[RDV4ROUBAIX]

Sure, no problem. I'll give you a little background on why that law is being proposed. In the state of MN, we're lucky enough to have many government officials and lawmakers that are fellow cyclists and athletes, hence our top ranking for cycling friendly cities, and they understand that for a cop to harass a couple cyclists out on a training ride for rolling a stop sign/light when there's absolutely no danger in doing so is plain stupid, might as well give all those joggers J-walking tickets for not waiting for crossing lights. It's happened to me in the past too, not lately though, and I think enough people complained that's why this law is being considered.

 

[Bala Verde]

Sure, no problem. I'll give you a little background on why that law is being proposed. In the state of MN, we're lucky enough to have many government officials and lawmakers that are fellow cyclists and athletes, hence our top ranking for cycling friendly cities, and they understand that for a cop to harass a couple cyclists out on a training ride for rolling a stop sign/light when there's absolutely no danger in doing so is plain stupid, might as well give all those joggers J-walking tickets for not waiting for crossing lights. It's happened to me in the past too, not lately though, and I think enough people complained that's why this law is being considered.

Stop signs in the USA are an abomination in any case. Coming to a complete stop sometimes in (rural) areas where no one is around, heck even in cities when you can see from miles that there is no one around, and you are required to coming to a full stop? Nuts I am telling you, nuts. Especially with the (unwritten?) rule that says that the first one to the stop is the first one to go...

You ought use the 'yield' system much more, whereby you actually make the assessment whether or not you can move onto the (main) road. Increases your participation/interaction as well.

 

[krebs303]

Here's what anger can do

Bike messenger-gone-wild

 

[usedtobefast]

i had a guy in a new Mercedes cut me off yesterday. he went around me then dove in and cut my lane off. he got a large bang of my fist on his car. usually folks are more alert around here.

 

[Winterfold]

When I first started commuting in London I used to go through reds all the time, then I started to think that the contempt cyclists are held in in the UK, was in part our own problem - we are so much quicker through town that running lights is winding up motorists even more than they already are.

After a while, especially after cycling in France a few Summers, and reading some v interesting psychographic research on cycling commissioned by Transport for London, I understood that my behaving 'better' wasn't going to anything to improve our standing.

So now, I just run the redlights I know it is safe to do so. If it ****es a few motorists off, they were probably ****ed off already and had committed 10 traffic infringements already that day themselves.

I do get, dunno if angry is the right word, emotional in some way at people who run red lights where they put themselves in danger, particularly if they look like they might have kids or are hot like a chick I saw do it yesterday at a particularly dodgy set in SW13. She had a Powertap hub, I would have thought she should know better.

Helmets, it's a choice, no point getting righteous about it. I like wearing a cap in the Summer but had a stupid 5mph accident last year where I smashed my helmet up, was out cold and the doc in A&E was convinced the helmet stopped a fractured skull. I have dependants so no more caps for me

 

[BikeCentric]

I treat every single red light, stop sign, and intersection as a Yield sign when on my bike. I will approach the intersection prepared to stop, and I will stop if other traffic is approaching the intersection at the same time. If no other traffic is approaching the intersection I will run the stop sign or stop light every single time.

I've been commuting to work every single day via bicycle for 10 years plus in the Bay Area, a place that has a very high traffic density. I also have been riding an average of 150 miles per week for the past 10 years as training for my racing. I know how to ride the bike.

It is simply impractical for a bicyclist to come to a complete stop at every stop light and stop sign, especially in very dense cities like San Francisco and Oakland where I often ride. I ride in a responsbile manner and I am not putting anyone in danger with my actions. I yield to pedestrians in crosswalks and my rolling through intersections puts no one at risk but myself, and since I actually use my functional eyeballs before rolling every intersection I have never had a single bike accident by riding in this manner even with my aforementioned high volume of riding.

So in closing if my riding "****es anyone off" I would advice you to kindly mind to your own riding or driving because I can assure you that I'm taking complete responsibility for my own actions and they are in no way detrimental to anyone else.

Also in closing there is a tacit agreement with local law enforcement that cyclists in the Bay Area cities are allowed to ride this way. I have never heard of another cyclist being ticketed for rolling intersections in the cities (although they often are in the podunk country towns where useless cops have nothing better to do and want to generate ticket revenue for their garbage municipalities). I have spoken to a number of city cops that I know as well and they have all told me that they will never ticket a cyclist who rolls an intersection as long as he slows down and looks for traffic - they will only ticket a rider who blows through an intersection at high speed without any attempt to stop.

 

[buckwheat]

Just like the mother with children in the backseat of the car who is in the right turn lane waits for a green light to turn, even though a right turn on a red is legal here, she doesn't want to chance it. I get it. I spectated this scenario from my bike once where an irate postal worker was honking at the mother to turn right and actually yelling in his little postal van to himself "turn you f-ing b*tch", so I yelled at him. "Please, don't shoot". Asswipe! I wanted to kick his teeth in, because it was clear for all to see she had two kids in the back. She wasn't trying to hold up traffic, ya know what I mean. Sorry, kind of went off on a tangent here.

You're entirely correct, but just for your info, route drivers routinely have their jobs threatened for not making productivity goals or delivery/pickup cutoff times. This combined with poor management, is literally the reason for going Postal, and it's not confined to USPS as opposed to its competitors.

I don't know if you remember but Domino's had to stop their 30 minute guarantee a while ago.

Fedex, UPS and the USPS have similiar deadlines but the incredible lobbying abilities of the first two enable them to keep their productivity schemes.

 

[94condor]

Yielding stops

I

Also in closing there is a tacit agreement with local law enforcement that cyclists in the Bay Area cities are allowed to ride this way. I have never heard of another cyclist being ticketed for rolling intersections in the cities (although they often are in the podunk country towns where useless cops have nothing better to do and want to generate ticket revenue for their garbage municipalities). I have spoken to a number of city cops that I know as well and they have all told me that they will never ticket a cyclist who rolls an intersection as long as he slows down and looks for traffic - they will only ticket a rider who blows through an intersection at high speed without any attempt to stop.

I can second that one from personal experience early last Sunday morning, having rolled slowly through a stop in the Western Addition on my fixed, right in front of a police car who followed me up the block and gave me a gentle verbal warning without bothering to pull over. By way of contrast, doing the same thing on the bike path in Sausalito got me a $100+ ticket a few years ago

 

[Archibald]

Okay, so can we have some people actually answering the question at hand?

I'm not interested in the reasons you break the law, so please stop the excuses of why you all run red lights and the like.

I'm asking - if you get annoyed with riders doing stuff like; running red lights, not wearing helmets, riding on footpaths/sidewalks, etc... why do you get annoyed at those that do these things?
Why is there such fervour towards people who choose to endanger their own lives and p*ss motorists off?

 

[Hugh Januss]

Okay, so can we have some people actually answering the question at hand?

I'm not interested in the reasons you break the law, so please stop the excuses of why you all run red lights and the like.

I'm asking - if you get annoyed with riders doing stuff like; running red lights, not wearing helmets, riding on footpaths/sidewalks, etc... why do you get annoyed at those that do these things?
Why is there such fervour towards people who choose to endanger their own lives and p*ss motorists off?

That's simple, by pissing off those motorists those people are endangering my life as well.

 

[badboyberty]

What boils my blood is the so called cycle advocates that jump on the "blame the bad cyclists" bandwagon every-time there is a debate about road safety for cyclists. The car that tried to push me into a line of parked cars this morning, the right turners (left turners for Americans and continentals) that don't give way to approaching cyclists, and the driving while text messaging crowd don't do these things because they're out to get revenge for the red light runner they saw the last time they were in the city. They do it because they're careless morons who forget that they're engaged in the most dangerous activity most of us ever engage in. When you chime in with the "I'm a good cyclist, there bad cyclists" line you don't win respect, you just encourage the bad drivers, in their view every cyclist they see is one of the rule flaunting crowd.

The western countries that give the greatest damn about compulsory helmets and having cyclists follow the same road rules are cars are the same countries with the most disproportionate number of cyclist deaths to cyclist numbers. I obey the road rules not because they offer me greater protection on the road, only because I don't have the energy to argue with cops. In Australia the majority of the road rules that relate to cyclists are designed for the convenience of motorists and are often antagonistic to rider safety. I live in a country town where it's almost impossible for cyclists to break road rules, yet I still have a close call almost every week.

Use lights at dawn and in the evening and night, wear a helmet, all very sensible things that will increase your safety. Make a big deal about "other" cyclists making your life dangerous, and achieve nothing but increasing the size of the target on your own back.

/[rant]