Are women pursuiters faster than Pro Tour sprinters?

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Aug 17, 2009
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erik saunders said:
so right... Lopes put the wood to Nothstien in a standing 200 when he was the world champ back in the day... ON HIS BMX BIKE... no lie...

no one area of bike racing has it all cornered up when it comes to pure physical ability...

you are pretty much just adding different skills and experience to that raw ability when you are looking at the specialists...

when skill and experience are at play (always) its not a given that a man will prevail in a physical contest over a woman...

no doubt that a top woman track racer is going to have a million times the skill and experience to pull off a flawless flying 200... a pro road racer is going to make a mess of it... and have a ****tier time...

like this:

Women's Omnium Flying 200: 2nd: Sarah Hammer 12.277 seconds
Men's Omnium Flying 200:......13th: Tyler Farrar........12.287 seconds
Yeah, i remember when Lopes smoked all of us at Redlands in 2000 street sprints. Impressive field as well.

Link:http://www.cqranking.com/men/asp/gen/race.asp?raceid=15531
 
Apr 30, 2010
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Mambo95 said:
What, even Theo Bos?
Ok, well maybe not him.

**** it. Him too. **** that mother****er.

Jennie Reed can take anyone at any time!

**** the bull****. Jennie reed will clear the ring.
 
Jul 7, 2010
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Haha. Quite a joke. Something is obviously going on there, Farrar could do much better than that.

This is in 1999, when Renshaw was 17, and a FIRST YEAR U19 at the Australian National Track Championships (That said, Renshaw was a freak junior, who would win everything on the track, but fizzed out a bit):

Men Under-19 Flying 200m Time Trial

AR: Darryn Hill (WA) 10.820, Launceston, March 20, 1992

1. Ben Kersten NSW 10.59 (new AR)
2. Jobie Dajka SA 10.78
3. Ryan Bailey WA 11.09
3. Joshua Rogash QLD 11.09
5. Mark Renshaw NSW 11.10

PS. That same year, Renshaw did around 12 flat in the ACTUAL races (in the Sprint)...There is no way Farrar's time is right.

In the Omnium, isn't it a Flying Lap (at least for men), not a Flying 200. ie. Flying 250?
 
Feb 25, 2010
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Mellow Velo said:
I suspect there's a bit of artistic licence being employed by Mr B, since it's his book.

Anyhow, for those who like lots of numbers and mind bending graphs, there is a fine example here:
http://www.srm.de/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=348:andre-greipel-srm-daten-des-etappensieges-bei-der-4-etappe-der-deutschlandtour&catid=106:strasse&Itemid=214&lang=it

Mr Greipel's (and Mr Foerster's) last few km during a 2008 TOG stage.

(and goes to show we are trying to compare apples with pears again)
hmm seems like I was exaggerating :p it was 1800 watts :p
 
abbaskip said:
Haha. Quite a joke. Something is obviously going on there, Farrar could do much better than that.
.There is no way Farrar's time is right.
In the Omnium, isn't it a Flying Lap (at least for men), not a Flying 200. ie. Flying 250?
It was a modified one day omnium on a slow 200 metre track.
So in fact, it was a flying lap. Farrar is no stranger to track
racing either, I believe he won three USA Junior track titles
one year (pursuit, team pursuit, and team sprint I think).

The fact remains, he was slower than Sarah Hammer, for
whatever reason, in this particular event.
 
Jul 7, 2010
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oldcrank said:
It was a modified one day omnium on a slow 200 metre track.
So in fact, it was a flying lap. Farrar is no stranger to track
racing either, I believe he won three USA Junior track titles
one year (pursuit, team pursuit, and team sprint I think).

The fact remains, he was slower than Sarah Hammer, for
whatever reason, in this particular event.
Yeah but there must be a good reason.

Under 17 riders do better times than Farrar

I'm actually fairly confident that quite a few road sprinters in the pro tour would beat the best woman track sprinters in a match sprint. Especially those that grew up racing track. Renshaw has raced Sprint world cup rounds, and whilst he has lost some pace from his younger days, guys like Cavendish are still explosive.
 
Nov 5, 2009
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There are certainly pro tour sprinters who can get a better time.
I also expeted a better time from Farrar since he's an experienced trackie, but none of them would stand a chance against the best women.
Simply because the two disciplines ar so different. A track sprinter needs to produce high power for 10-15s and a road sprinter for 5min+
It would be the same as saying that male marathon runners could beat the best female 100m sprinters;)
 
Mar 10, 2009
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Burnaby 4 Day?

I am guessing those results are from the 4th day of the Burnaby 4 day?
A whole bunch of the top riders did not make it past the elimination that day after 3 days of insanely fast Madison races. It looked a lot like quitting.
I do want to be careful not to diss Sarah as she was incredibly fast those 4 days. I am pretty sure Tyler can do sub 12 or maybe 11 second 200s.
Just for reference 12 seconds is 60 kph and lots of pro sprints are over 70.
 
Jul 7, 2010
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cyclingrookie said:
There are certainly pro tour sprinters who can get a better time.
I also expeted a better time from Farrar since he's an experienced trackie, but none of them would stand a chance against the best women.
Simply because the two disciplines ar so different. A track sprinter needs to produce high power for 10-15s and a road sprinter for 5min+
It would be the same as saying that male marathon runners could beat the best female 100m sprinters;)
No, your marathon to sprinter comparison would be like a pure climbed compared to a sprinter.

Road sprinters are still bloody fast over 200m, and I'm positive guys like Theo Bos, Leigh Howard, Ben Kersten and Mark Cavendish would have the best ladies covered. Woman are 1.5 seconds behind the best men in a flying 200. And whilst I'm sure Bos, Kersten et al have slowed down since becoming roadies, they wouldn't have slowed that much. And all else equal, the extra strength would give the man the win.

Another example is how much slower is Renshaw now, than when he was a first year under 19. His time as a first year under 19 would have had him 5th in qualifying for the 2010 woman's worlds. Only 2 tenths off first... this is as a 17 yo boy. And he isn't the fastest road sprinter around.
 
Mar 17, 2009
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Hasn't anyone considered that Farrar would not be anywhere at his top form during his off season as would any of the European based pros who rode this event? Contrast that with dedicated trackies of any gender and you can argue that they are faster.

The guy rode all three Grands Tours this year, having started in Qatar in January, FFS!! No wonder he was off the pace.

Dedicated track riders have always handed out a kicking to visiting roadmen. Those with track experience don't always get it as bad but they still need time to readjust.

BTW Erik, Jennie Reed may have been quick a few years ago but she'd have a hard time showing a clean pair of heels to any sprinter now.

She was beaten in the Sprint by Victoria Pendleton for the World Sprint Crown in 2008
 
Nov 5, 2009
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abbaskip said:
No, your marathon to sprinter comparison would be like a pure climbed compared to a sprinter.

Road sprinters are still bloody fast over 200m, and I'm positive guys like Theo Bos, Leigh Howard, Ben Kersten and Mark Cavendish would have the best ladies covered. Woman are 1.5 seconds behind the best men in a flying 200. And whilst I'm sure Bos, Kersten et al have slowed down since becoming roadies, they wouldn't have slowed that much. And all else equal, the extra strength would give the man the win.

Another example is how much slower is Renshaw now, than when he was a first year under 19. His time as a first year under 19 would have had him 5th in qualifying for the 2010 woman's worlds. Only 2 tenths off first... this is as a 17 yo boy. And he isn't the fastest road sprinter around.
The marathon/sprinter comparison was just to get my point out.
When I'm talking about road sprinters I'm excluding Bos. You'll probably get why;) Many road sprinters can probably match the peak watt of a female track sprinter, but can they do it at 150rpm? They can probably ride low 11s, but to beat the best they need to do sub 11s. Even if they do a decent flying 200, they would be f....d in the first match sprint.
 
Jul 7, 2010
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cyclingrookie said:
The marathon/sprinter comparison was just to get my point out.
When I'm talking about road sprinters I'm excluding Bos. You'll probably get why;) Many road sprinters can probably match the peak watt of a female track sprinter, but can they do it at 150rpm? They can probably ride low 11s, but to beat the best they need to do sub 11s. Even if they do a decent flying 200, they would be f....d in the first match sprint.
As I said, if Renshaw did 11.1 as a 17 year old, I'm confident that the top road sprinters (Cavendish) could do sub 11.

And guys like Leigh Howard, Cavendish and Renshaw grew up racing track as much as road, so wouldn't have any issues with a match sprint (when in form). As mentioned above, they're rarely in form when they're racing the track as it's usually a pre/post-season thing for them. Actually, I think that the match sprint would help them more (the ones that had ridden plenty of track before), as the sprint could be longer, or they could come off the woman sprinters wheel.
 
Nov 5, 2009
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abbaskip said:
As I said, if Renshaw did 11.1 as a 17 year old, I'm confident that the top road sprinters (Cavendish) could do sub 11.

And guys like Leigh Howard, Cavendish and Renshaw grew up racing track as much as road, so wouldn't have any issues with a match sprint (when in form). As mentioned above, they're rarely in form when they're racing the track as it's usually a pre/post-season thing for them. Actually, I think that the match sprint would help them more (the ones that had ridden plenty of track before), as the sprint could be longer, or they could come off the woman sprinters wheel.
yeah, but at that time he was training specificly for sprint. Training for sprint and road is very different. If Renshaw dedicates himself to it I'm sure he can beat the beat the best female sprinters, but not while he is a roadie...
 
Mar 10, 2009
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Master50 nailed it, then men checked out on the last day (the miss-n-out was comical)...but Tylers 200m effort did look like an honest one. Regardless, thats an event you need to train for...Sarah trains for it, Tyler hadn't ridden a fixie in years.

Tyler was suffering big time all week, it was really cool to see the difference between him and the hardened trackies (Holloway/Colby/Zach Bell). Note the suffering....
http://www.flickr.com/photos/otbphoto/5315510944/

It will be interesting to see how he goes @ TDU...will the track legs translate?
 
Jul 2, 2009
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If women's pursuiters are faster than Pro Tour sprinters, why aren't the top men's pursuiters (Thomas, Wiggins, Raulston, Rasmussen etc) the best sprinters?


Point two: I'd love to see Cav and Vicky P do a match sprint at one of those Revolution events.
 
Jul 7, 2010
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Mambo95 said:
If women's pursuiters are faster than Pro Tour sprinters, why aren't the top men's pursuiters (Thomas, Wiggins, Raulston, Rasmussen etc) the best sprinters?


Point two: I'd love to see Cav and Vicky P do a match sprint at one of those Revolution events.
Point 1: Exactly. Guys like McGee, Wiggins, Thomas etc aren't slow, but are a long way from being as quick as guys like Cav, Farrar etc.

Point 2: Cav would beat her 9/10
 
Jul 7, 2010
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cyclingrookie said:
yeah, but at that time he was training specificly for sprint. Training for sprint and road is very different. If Renshaw dedicates himself to it I'm sure he can beat the beat the best female sprinters, but not while he is a roadie...
Actually, as a first year U19 (so when he was 17, so stupidly young too), he wasn't training specifically for the track sprint events. He also raced and won the teams pursuit at the same national titles, and raced the individual pursuit and the scratch race. Not exactly pure speed races.
 
Jul 7, 2010
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Hooptie said:
Master50 nailed it, then men checked out on the last day (the miss-n-out was comical)...but Tylers 200m effort did look like an honest one. Regardless, thats an event you need to train for...Sarah trains for it, Tyler hadn't ridden a fixie in years.

Tyler was suffering big time all week, it was really cool to see the difference between him and the hardened trackies (Holloway/Colby/Zach Bell). Note the suffering....
http://www.flickr.com/photos/otbphoto/5315510944/

It will be interesting to see how he goes @ TDU...will the track legs translate?
Look through the rest of those photos, and he doesn't look to be suffering more than anyone else. You just picked that one bad photo.
 
Actually, I just started this thread as a joke in reply to a very old
thread which I could not relocated in which some Wiggo hating
whacko had a big list of riders that could have beaten Wiggo
and won the 2008 Olympic pursuit, and Farrarr was on that
silly list.
 
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