Armstrong - response to his article on Pantani

Feb 14, 2014
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0
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Please forgive my posting this here but I was not able to post my comments in full under the actual article today (http://www.cyclingnews.com/features/armstrong-if-i-was-the-carpenter-pantani-was-the-artist) and I wanted them to be read in their entirety as I feel strongly about this subject that is important in the ongoing recouperation of our sports reputation...

IN RESPONSE TO: wfaulconer post (for some reason there was no "reply" tab on this post!)

(QUOTING wfaulconer post) ... I would have liked him to say, "It's utterly unacceptable that we had to lose a cycling talent so early and in such a tormented way. The way we lived and raced back then was deplorable and will hopefully never be repeated. It was ignorant, selfish and dishonest. For anyone to pay for all that with their life is a terrible waste. I sure hope that competing with me didn't somehow contribute to the level of doping and drug activity he did, but I'm sure that it probably did and I'll never forgive myself for that. I'm lucky. I'm humiliated and ruined, but I'm alive. He wasn't the only one to pay with his life, we let it go on much too long and trusted doctors who really shouldn't have held anyone's lives in their hands. The best thing I can do for the sport since I'm not actually willing to really tell it like it is, is to fade into the background and stay away so better minds and better ideas can prevail. We are all ghosts from the past and we should stop haunting everyone. It's practically sacrilegious to comment on it anymore, we're lucky not to be in jail for all the blood on our hands. If we'd all laid down our guns back then, we could have easily raced each other clean and fair. I wish I had been more brave looking back. It's not like I don't know what bravery is, I've stared death down before. I should have said something no matter the cost. Really I was the only one who could have made it work." ....

TO ALL POSTERS HERE... I felt compelled to join CN today after years of being a non subscribing viewer and quite impulsively after having just read this particular post by wfaulconor.

The mounting pressures within a sport I love very much both as a cyclist and an ever excited viewer of the peloton are reaching a peek or at least a poignant stage within the ongoing unravelling of the sports tarnished reputation. Todays anniversary of the great rider Marco Pantani's tragic death is indeed a stark reminder of why we need to rid professional cycling of all its foul play.

I sympathise with the original poster's comments here but I do think there is still a chance Mr Armstrong may indeed be "willing to really tell it like it is". I think it would be a mistake to banish him at this point "to fade into the background and stay away". Yes! Mr Armstrong is a key culprit in the demise of the sports reputation and he has been slow and cautious to respond but it is his very position in this situation that could be vital to help amend the harm that has occurred. I don't for a moment condone his behaviour nor have any doubts that he deserves the punishment he is now having to deal with as a result of his years of deceit, but I do think one should consider the pressure he must have to face with the force of this punishment and appreciate that it must take immense self-will to accept it, swallow it and move on- hopefully to much more moral ground. That "self-will" I can sense some readers thinking: "Armstrongs old selfish ambition" OK! we know of the mans unrelenting will: so far, for the most part, he has used it immorally but I believe everyone has a right to be given a second chance to make amends and as far as professional cycling's current predicament is concerned this might be a second chance that could well serve to go a long way to help restore the sports reputation. I think the real question here is for how long and how far does a man need to be punished before he is deemed able or disable to prove he can follow the right path?

Yes! we could all interpret his comments on Signor Pantani here as another PR exercise. I deplore any drug induced performances in sport and there is no excuse whatsoever for the drug taking Mr Armstrong or any other cyclist has done including the notion: "if everyone else is doing it why should I believe that my doing it is cheating?" We can all interpret what he says here one way or another but between the lines I think there may be a hint of the mans compassion. Professional cycling is no different from football or any other financially driven sport in that the athletes rely on its reputation to earn a living. The hub of the commercial machine that provides that living is in question now: all the drugs and the riders that become tempted to take them are a by-product of the very way that machine entices the foul play to take place: overpassing moral values and replacing them with self-centred desires and greed: a tragic brainwashing of a noble, competitive spirit. I am not suggesting for a moment that the flaw in the machine is an excuse for those riders who have decided to cheat: they know full well it is wrong and should have made more effort to muster their individual strength to resist. I am not here to put that machine to rights nor argue about the amount footballers or any other professional sports people get payed; but I am here saying that whatever it is within the commercial machine that is causing this brainwashing it needs to be kicked into touch: for good. That machine by the way continues to wreak havoc after the culprits have been caught within it. One could argue that the publics current impatience with Mr Armstrongs failure so far to do something truly positive to help the situation is also a result of the same machine that spits out one of its victims damning him from ever doing something right for a change. We all pay to watch these guys spinning round the globe and without our enthusiasm for the sport it wouldn't exist as a public entertainment. Again I make no excuse for the deceitful but I question the very foundations of the current system that promotes cycling. It is a complex web of connections to bring the sport to the public eye but somewhere within this structure are things that continue to tempt the weak into immoral practice. There will always be greedy people in any warp of life: those that are so are sometimes incapable of changing but the weak should be given a chance.

I think it is possible Mr Armstrong has the capacity and courage to say and do what is right to help the sport amend itself. Indeed, for this to happen Mr Armstrong has to tell the world what he surely must see deep down is not only the truth but is the ultimately important, moral and just thing to do to truly help loosen the awful stigma that surrounds professional cycling. Many would say that he has had ample time to do this and I would agree. However considering the density of the quagmire Mr Armstrong has immersed himself into perhaps each relevant jogging of his memories like the unfortunate demise of Marco Pantani today will goad him eventually into full action rather than continuing, disappointingly, to avoid addressing the real issues full in the face as the original poster understandably expresses.

I believe Mr Armstrong does have the compassion to do this if that compassion is currently buried under what must be piles of ongoing practical pressures and maybe his very own self-centred ambition that unfortunately appears, so far, as an old affliction that continues to dominate his actions in the eyes of the public. I hope Mr Armstrong's ambitious streak is indeed a genuine by-product of what can happen to a gifted athlete as a result of an immorally run commercial machine. If not he should indeed step back from the public eye or at least from the cycling community. However my hunch is that, for the moment, predominantly, it is this seemingly old flaw that still thwarts the mans potential to speak out and do something truly great: something that is so, so needed to help project professional cycling into a new clean arena. However I haven't yet ruled out the possibility of seeing Mr Armstrong's status change. Forgive my perhaps naive, over optimistic nature but perhaps we shouldn't rule out the possibility of events occurring in the not too distant future that could curtail a more hopeful outcome possibly a little like the former impostor Frank Abagnale turned government consultant in the film "Catch Me If You Can"

I really hope that the original passion and drive that saved his own life when he was lying on that bed riddled with cancer was a different kind: one from a person indeed among those with "better minds and better ideas" that can eventually prevail and offer a significant boost to the recovery of a sport we all love and admire. Like many I was drawn by the Armstrong story of the cancer survivor and was increasingly disappointed as the drug stories emerged. Few of us have actually met Lance Armstrong and most of us can only surmise his personality from what we read and see on the media (myself included). Perhaps we should be a little more patient to see if he does indeed put that relentless drive to good use. I think the wait could be an important one for the sport. I hope he stops listening to his lawyers or anyone thriving off his public image even in its current notorious state!: including himself! I hope Mr Armstrong sees the real issues here because the true achievers in this life are always the ones who pursue those paths that can help steer man to a more moral and noble existence. I hope.
 
Dec 7, 2010
5,507
0
0
singer-songwriter said:
Please forgive my posting this here but I was not able to post my comments in full under the actual article today (http://www.cyclingnews.com/features/...was-the-artist) and I wanted them to be read in their entirety as I feel strongly about this subject that is important in the ongoing recouperation of our sports reputation...

IN RESPONSE TO: wfaulconer post (for some reason there was no "reply" tab on this post!)

(QUOTING wfaulconer post) ... I would have liked him to say, "It's utterly unacceptable that we had to lose a cycling talent so early and in such a tormented way. The way we lived and raced back then was deplorable and will hopefully never be repeated. It was ignorant, selfish and dishonest. For anyone to pay for all that with their life is a terrible waste. I sure hope that competing with me didn't somehow contribute to the level of doping and drug activity he did, but I'm sure that it probably did and I'll never forgive myself for that. I'm lucky. I'm humiliated and ruined, but I'm alive. He wasn't the only one to pay with his life, we let it go on much too long and trusted doctors who really shouldn't have held anyone's lives in their hands. The best thing I can do for the sport since I'm not actually willing to really tell it like it is, is to fade into the background and stay away so better minds and better ideas can prevail. We are all ghosts from the past and we should stop haunting everyone. It's practically sacrilegious to comment on it anymore, we're lucky not to be in jail for all the blood on our hands. If we'd all laid down our guns back then, we could have easily raced each other clean and fair. I wish I had been more brave looking back. It's not like I don't know what bravery is, I've stared death down before. I should have said something no matter the cost. Really I was the only one who could have made it work." ....

TO ALL POSTERS HERE... I felt compelled to join CN today after years of being a non subscribing viewer and quite impulsively after having just read this particular post by wfaulconor.

The mounting pressures within a sport I love very much both as a cyclist and an ever excited viewer of the peloton are reaching a peek or at least a poignant stage within the ongoing unravelling of the sports tarnished reputation. Todays anniversary of the great rider Marco Pantani's tragic death is indeed a stark reminder of why we need to rid professional cycling of all its foul play.

I sympathise with the original poster's comments here but I do think there is still a chance Mr Armstrong may indeed be "willing to really tell it like it is". I think it would be a mistake to banish him at this point "to fade into the background and stay away". Yes! Mr Armstrong is a key culprit in the demise of the sports reputation and he has been slow and cautious to respond but it is his very position in this situation that could be vital to help amend the harm that has occurred. I don't for a moment condone his behaviour nor have any doubts that he deserves the punishment he is now having to deal with as a result of his years of deceit, but I do think one should consider the pressure he must have to face with the force of this punishment and appreciate that it must take immense self-will to accept it, swallow it and move on- hopefully to much more moral ground. That "self-will" I can sense some readers thinking: "Armstrongs old selfish ambition" OK! we know of the mans unrelenting will: so far, for the most part, he has used it immorally but I believe everyone has a right to be given a second chance to make amends and as far as professional cycling's current predicament is concerned this might be a second chance that could well serve to go a long way to help restore the sports reputation. I think the real question here is for how long and how far does a man need to be punished before he is deemed able or disable to prove he can follow the right path?

Yes! we could all interpret his comments on Signor Pantani here as another PR exercise. I deplore any drug induced performances in sport and there is no excuse whatsoever for the drug taking Mr Armstrong or any other cyclist has done including the notion: "if everyone else is doing it why should I believe that my doing it is cheating?" We can all interpret what he says here one way or another but between the lines I think there may be a hint of the mans compassion. Professional cycling is no different from football or any other financially driven sport in that the athletes rely on its reputation to earn a living. The hub of the commercial machine that provides that living is in question now: all the drugs and the riders that become tempted to take them are a by-product of the very way that machine entices the foul play to take place: overpassing moral values and replacing them with self-centred desires and greed: a tragic brainwashing of a noble, competitive spirit. I am not suggesting for a moment that the flaw in the machine is an excuse for those riders who have decided to cheat: they know full well it is wrong and should have made more effort to muster their individual strength to resist. I am not here to put that machine to rights nor argue about the amount footballers or any other professional sports people get payed; but I am here saying that whatever it is within the commercial machine that is causing this brainwashing it needs to be kicked into touch: for good. That machine by the way continues to wreak havoc after the culprits have been caught within it. One could argue that the publics current impatience with Mr Armstrongs failure so far to do something truly positive to help the situation is also a result of the same machine that spits out one of its victims damning him from ever doing something right for a change. We all pay to watch these guys spinning round the globe and without our enthusiasm for the sport it wouldn't exist as a public entertainment. Again I make no excuse for the deceitful but I question the very foundations of the current system that promotes cycling. It is a complex web of connections to bring the sport to the public eye but somewhere within this structure are things that continue to tempt the weak into immoral practice. There will always be greedy people in any warp of life: those that are so are sometimes incapable of changing but the weak should be given a chance.

I think it is possible Mr Armstrong has the capacity and courage to say and do what is right to help the sport amend itself. Indeed, for this to happen Mr Armstrong has to tell the world what he surely must see deep down is not only the truth but is the ultimately important, moral and just thing to do to truly help loosen the awful stigma that surrounds professional cycling. Many would say that he has had ample time to do this and I would agree. However considering the density of the quagmire Mr Armstrong has immersed himself into perhaps each relevant jogging of his memories like the unfortunate demise of Marco Pantani today will goad him eventually into full action rather than continuing, disappointingly, to avoid addressing the real issues full in the face as the original poster understandably expresses.

I believe Mr Armstrong does have the compassion to do this if that compassion is currently buried under what must be piles of ongoing practical pressures and maybe his very own self-centred ambition that unfortunately appears, so far, as an old affliction that continues to dominate his actions in the eyes of the public. I hope Mr Armstrong's ambitious streak is indeed a genuine by-product of what can happen to a gifted athlete as a result of an immorally run commercial machine. If not he should indeed step back from the public eye or at least from the cycling community. However my hunch is that, for the moment, predominantly, it is this seemingly old flaw that still thwarts the mans potential to speak out and do something truly great: something that is so, so needed to help project professional cycling into a new clean arena. However I haven't yet ruled out the possibility of seeing Mr Armstrong's status change. Forgive my perhaps naive, over optimistic nature but perhaps we shouldn't rule out the possibility of events occurring in the not too distant future that could curtail a more hopeful outcome possibly a little like the former impostor Frank Abagnale turned government consultant in the film "Catch Me If You Can"

I really hope that the original passion and drive that saved his own life when he was lying on that bed riddled with cancer was a different kind: one from a person indeed among those with "better minds and better ideas" that can eventually prevail and offer a significant boost to the recovery of a sport we all love and admire. Like many I was drawn by the Armstrong story of the cancer survivor and was increasingly disappointed as the drug stories emerged. Few of us have actually met Lance Armstrong and most of us can only surmise his personality from what we read and see on the media (myself included). Perhaps we should be a little more patient to see if he does indeed put that relentless drive to good use. I think the wait could be an important one for the sport. I hope he stops listening to his lawyers or anyone thriving off his public image even in its current notorious state!: including himself! I hope Mr Armstrong sees the real issues here because the true achievers in this life are always the ones who pursue those paths that can help steer man to a more moral and noble existence. I hope.
OK, I didn't read any of that, but I do love when people quote lenghthy posts, in their entirety, immediately after said post. So much so, in fact, that I figured I'd give it a try this time. :)

Anywho...here's a song for you, with singing:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b2oldN23Ii4
 
May 27, 2012
6,458
0
0
singer-songwriter said:
Please forgive my posting this here but I was not able to post my comments in full under the actual article today (http://www.cyclingnews.com/features/...was-the-artist) and I wanted them to be read in their entirety as I feel strongly about this subject that is important in the ongoing recouperation of our sports reputation...

IN RESPONSE TO: wfaulconer post (for some reason there was no "reply" tab on this post!)

(QUOTING wfaulconer post) ... I would have liked him to say, "It's utterly unacceptable that we had to lose a cycling talent so early and in such a tormented way. The way we lived and raced back then was deplorable and will hopefully never be repeated. It was ignorant, selfish and dishonest. For anyone to pay for all that with their life is a terrible waste. I sure hope that competing with me didn't somehow contribute to the level of doping and drug activity he did, but I'm sure that it probably did and I'll never forgive myself for that. I'm lucky. I'm humiliated and ruined, but I'm alive. He wasn't the only one to pay with his life, we let it go on much too long and trusted doctors who really shouldn't have held anyone's lives in their hands. The best thing I can do for the sport since I'm not actually willing to really tell it like it is, is to fade into the background and stay away so better minds and better ideas can prevail. We are all ghosts from the past and we should stop haunting everyone. It's practically sacrilegious to comment on it anymore, we're lucky not to be in jail for all the blood on our hands. If we'd all laid down our guns back then, we could have easily raced each other clean and fair. I wish I had been more brave looking back. It's not like I don't know what bravery is, I've stared death down before. I should have said something no matter the cost. Really I was the only one who could have made it work." ....

TO ALL POSTERS HERE... I felt compelled to join CN today after years of being a non subscribing viewer and quite impulsively after having just read this particular post by wfaulconor.

The mounting pressures within a sport I love very much both as a cyclist and an ever excited viewer of the peloton are reaching a peek or at least a poignant stage within the ongoing unravelling of the sports tarnished reputation. Todays anniversary of the great rider Marco Pantani's tragic death is indeed a stark reminder of why we need to rid professional cycling of all its foul play.

I sympathise with the original poster's comments here but I do think there is still a chance Mr Armstrong may indeed be "willing to really tell it like it is". I think it would be a mistake to banish him at this point "to fade into the background and stay away". Yes! Mr Armstrong is a key culprit in the demise of the sports reputation and he has been slow and cautious to respond but it is his very position in this situation that could be vital to help amend the harm that has occurred. I don't for a moment condone his behaviour nor have any doubts that he deserves the punishment he is now having to deal with as a result of his years of deceit, but I do think one should consider the pressure he must have to face with the force of this punishment and appreciate that it must take immense self-will to accept it, swallow it and move on- hopefully to much more moral ground. That "self-will" I can sense some readers thinking: "Armstrongs old selfish ambition" OK! we know of the mans unrelenting will: so far, for the most part, he has used it immorally but I believe everyone has a right to be given a second chance to make amends and as far as professional cycling's current predicament is concerned this might be a second chance that could well serve to go a long way to help restore the sports reputation. I think the real question here is for how long and how far does a man need to be punished before he is deemed able or disable to prove he can follow the right path?

Yes! we could all interpret his comments on Signor Pantani here as another PR exercise. I deplore any drug induced performances in sport and there is no excuse whatsoever for the drug taking Mr Armstrong or any other cyclist has done including the notion: "if everyone else is doing it why should I believe that my doing it is cheating?" We can all interpret what he says here one way or another but between the lines I think there may be a hint of the mans compassion. Professional cycling is no different from football or any other financially driven sport in that the athletes rely on its reputation to earn a living. The hub of the commercial machine that provides that living is in question now: all the drugs and the riders that become tempted to take them are a by-product of the very way that machine entices the foul play to take place: overpassing moral values and replacing them with self-centred desires and greed: a tragic brainwashing of a noble, competitive spirit. I am not suggesting for a moment that the flaw in the machine is an excuse for those riders who have decided to cheat: they know full well it is wrong and should have made more effort to muster their individual strength to resist. I am not here to put that machine to rights nor argue about the amount footballers or any other professional sports people get payed; but I am here saying that whatever it is within the commercial machine that is causing this brainwashing it needs to be kicked into touch: for good. That machine by the way continues to wreak havoc after the culprits have been caught within it. One could argue that the publics current impatience with Mr Armstrongs failure so far to do something truly positive to help the situation is also a result of the same machine that spits out one of its victims damning him from ever doing something right for a change. We all pay to watch these guys spinning round the globe and without our enthusiasm for the sport it wouldn't exist as a public entertainment. Again I make no excuse for the deceitful but I question the very foundations of the current system that promotes cycling. It is a complex web of connections to bring the sport to the public eye but somewhere within this structure are things that continue to tempt the weak into immoral practice. There will always be greedy people in any warp of life: those that are so are sometimes incapable of changing but the weak should be given a chance.

I think it is possible Mr Armstrong has the capacity and courage to say and do what is right to help the sport amend itself. Indeed, for this to happen Mr Armstrong has to tell the world what he surely must see deep down is not only the truth but is the ultimately important, moral and just thing to do to truly help loosen the awful stigma that surrounds professional cycling. Many would say that he has had ample time to do this and I would agree. However considering the density of the quagmire Mr Armstrong has immersed himself into perhaps each relevant jogging of his memories like the unfortunate demise of Marco Pantani today will goad him eventually into full action rather than continuing, disappointingly, to avoid addressing the real issues full in the face as the original poster understandably expresses.

I believe Mr Armstrong does have the compassion to do this if that compassion is currently buried under what must be piles of ongoing practical pressures and maybe his very own self-centred ambition that unfortunately appears, so far, as an old affliction that continues to dominate his actions in the eyes of the public. I hope Mr Armstrong's ambitious streak is indeed a genuine by-product of what can happen to a gifted athlete as a result of an immorally run commercial machine. If not he should indeed step back from the public eye or at least from the cycling community. However my hunch is that, for the moment, predominantly, it is this seemingly old flaw that still thwarts the mans potential to speak out and do something truly great: something that is so, so needed to help project professional cycling into a new clean arena. However I haven't yet ruled out the possibility of seeing Mr Armstrong's status change. Forgive my perhaps naive, over optimistic nature but perhaps we shouldn't rule out the possibility of events occurring in the not too distant future that could curtail a more hopeful outcome possibly a little like the former impostor Frank Abagnale turned government consultant in the film "Catch Me If You Can"

I really hope that the original passion and drive that saved his own life when he was lying on that bed riddled with cancer was a different kind: one from a person indeed among those with "better minds and better ideas" that can eventually prevail and offer a significant boost to the recovery of a sport we all love and admire. Like many I was drawn by the Armstrong story of the cancer survivor and was increasingly disappointed as the drug stories emerged. Few of us have actually met Lance Armstrong and most of us can only surmise his personality from what we read and see on the media (myself included). Perhaps we should be a little more patient to see if he does indeed put that relentless drive to good use. I think the wait could be an important one for the sport. I hope he stops listening to his lawyers or anyone thriving off his public image even in its current notorious state!: including himself! I hope Mr Armstrong sees the real issues here because the true achievers in this life are always the ones who pursue those paths that can help steer man to a more moral and noble existence. I hope.
I make a motion that everyone who posts on this thread has to quote the entire original post.
 
fat chance

ss truth is lance will climb over anyone to get ahead...........while he is truly driven his energies are reserved for himself and his family

fat pat got it right...........lance has no place in cycling

while our sport is still troubled better put your faith in others to improve things

glad you have signed up to contribute to the forum............in time you
will get used to the b!tchin from other 'smart ar5e' members

Mark L
 
May 14, 2010
5,306
2
0
singer-songwriter said:
Please forgive my posting this here but I was not able to post my comments in full under the actual article today (http://www.cyclingnews.com/features/...was-the-artist) and I wanted them to be read in their entirety as I feel strongly about this subject that is important in the ongoing recouperation of our sports reputation...

IN RESPONSE TO: wfaulconer post (for some reason there was no "reply" tab on this post!)

(QUOTING wfaulconer post) ... I would have liked him to say, "It's utterly unacceptable that we had to lose a cycling talent so early and in such a tormented way. The way we lived and raced back then was deplorable and will hopefully never be repeated. It was ignorant, selfish and dishonest. For anyone to pay for all that with their life is a terrible waste. I sure hope that competing with me didn't somehow contribute to the level of doping and drug activity he did, but I'm sure that it probably did and I'll never forgive myself for that. I'm lucky. I'm humiliated and ruined, but I'm alive. He wasn't the only one to pay with his life, we let it go on much too long and trusted doctors who really shouldn't have held anyone's lives in their hands. The best thing I can do for the sport since I'm not actually willing to really tell it like it is, is to fade into the background and stay away so better minds and better ideas can prevail. We are all ghosts from the past and we should stop haunting everyone. It's practically sacrilegious to comment on it anymore, we're lucky not to be in jail for all the blood on our hands. If we'd all laid down our guns back then, we could have easily raced each other clean and fair. I wish I had been more brave looking back. It's not like I don't know what bravery is, I've stared death down before. I should have said something no matter the cost. Really I was the only one who could have made it work." ....

TO ALL POSTERS HERE... I felt compelled to join CN today after years of being a non subscribing viewer and quite impulsively after having just read this particular post by wfaulconor.

The mounting pressures within a sport I love very much both as a cyclist and an ever excited viewer of the peloton are reaching a peek or at least a poignant stage within the ongoing unravelling of the sports tarnished reputation. Todays anniversary of the great rider Marco Pantani's tragic death is indeed a stark reminder of why we need to rid professional cycling of all its foul play.

I sympathise with the original poster's comments here but I do think there is still a chance Mr Armstrong may indeed be "willing to really tell it like it is". I think it would be a mistake to banish him at this point "to fade into the background and stay away". Yes! Mr Armstrong is a key culprit in the demise of the sports reputation and he has been slow and cautious to respond but it is his very position in this situation that could be vital to help amend the harm that has occurred. I don't for a moment condone his behaviour nor have any doubts that he deserves the punishment he is now having to deal with as a result of his years of deceit, but I do think one should consider the pressure he must have to face with the force of this punishment and appreciate that it must take immense self-will to accept it, swallow it and move on- hopefully to much more moral ground. That "self-will" I can sense some readers thinking: "Armstrongs old selfish ambition" OK! we know of the mans unrelenting will: so far, for the most part, he has used it immorally but I believe everyone has a right to be given a second chance to make amends and as far as professional cycling's current predicament is concerned this might be a second chance that could well serve to go a long way to help restore the sports reputation. I think the real question here is for how long and how far does a man need to be punished before he is deemed able or disable to prove he can follow the right path?

Yes! we could all interpret his comments on Signor Pantani here as another PR exercise. I deplore any drug induced performances in sport and there is no excuse whatsoever for the drug taking Mr Armstrong or any other cyclist has done including the notion: "if everyone else is doing it why should I believe that my doing it is cheating?" We can all interpret what he says here one way or another but between the lines I think there may be a hint of the mans compassion. Professional cycling is no different from football or any other financially driven sport in that the athletes rely on its reputation to earn a living. The hub of the commercial machine that provides that living is in question now: all the drugs and the riders that become tempted to take them are a by-product of the very way that machine entices the foul play to take place: overpassing moral values and replacing them with self-centred desires and greed: a tragic brainwashing of a noble, competitive spirit. I am not suggesting for a moment that the flaw in the machine is an excuse for those riders who have decided to cheat: they know full well it is wrong and should have made more effort to muster their individual strength to resist. I am not here to put that machine to rights nor argue about the amount footballers or any other professional sports people get payed; but I am here saying that whatever it is within the commercial machine that is causing this brainwashing it needs to be kicked into touch: for good. That machine by the way continues to wreak havoc after the culprits have been caught within it. One could argue that the publics current impatience with Mr Armstrongs failure so far to do something truly positive to help the situation is also a result of the same machine that spits out one of its victims damning him from ever doing something right for a change. We all pay to watch these guys spinning round the globe and without our enthusiasm for the sport it wouldn't exist as a public entertainment. Again I make no excuse for the deceitful but I question the very foundations of the current system that promotes cycling. It is a complex web of connections to bring the sport to the public eye but somewhere within this structure are things that continue to tempt the weak into immoral practice. There will always be greedy people in any warp of life: those that are so are sometimes incapable of changing but the weak should be given a chance.

I think it is possible Mr Armstrong has the capacity and courage to say and do what is right to help the sport amend itself. Indeed, for this to happen Mr Armstrong has to tell the world what he surely must see deep down is not only the truth but is the ultimately important, moral and just thing to do to truly help loosen the awful stigma that surrounds professional cycling. Many would say that he has had ample time to do this and I would agree. However considering the density of the quagmire Mr Armstrong has immersed himself into perhaps each relevant jogging of his memories like the unfortunate demise of Marco Pantani today will goad him eventually into full action rather than continuing, disappointingly, to avoid addressing the real issues full in the face as the original poster understandably expresses.

I believe Mr Armstrong does have the compassion to do this if that compassion is currently buried under what must be piles of ongoing practical pressures and maybe his very own self-centred ambition that unfortunately appears, so far, as an old affliction that continues to dominate his actions in the eyes of the public. I hope Mr Armstrong's ambitious streak is indeed a genuine by-product of what can happen to a gifted athlete as a result of an immorally run commercial machine. If not he should indeed step back from the public eye or at least from the cycling community. However my hunch is that, for the moment, predominantly, it is this seemingly old flaw that still thwarts the mans potential to speak out and do something truly great: something that is so, so needed to help project professional cycling into a new clean arena. However I haven't yet ruled out the possibility of seeing Mr Armstrong's status change. Forgive my perhaps naive, over optimistic nature but perhaps we shouldn't rule out the possibility of events occurring in the not too distant future that could curtail a more hopeful outcome possibly a little like the former impostor Frank Abagnale turned government consultant in the film "Catch Me If You Can"

I really hope that the original passion and drive that saved his own life when he was lying on that bed riddled with cancer was a different kind: one from a person indeed among those with "better minds and better ideas" that can eventually prevail and offer a significant boost to the recovery of a sport we all love and admire. Like many I was drawn by the Armstrong story of the cancer survivor and was increasingly disappointed as the drug stories emerged. Few of us have actually met Lance Armstrong and most of us can only surmise his personality from what we read and see on the media (myself included). Perhaps we should be a little more patient to see if he does indeed put that relentless drive to good use. I think the wait could be an important one for the sport. I hope he stops listening to his lawyers or anyone thriving off his public image even in its current notorious state!: including himself! I hope Mr Armstrong sees the real issues here because the true achievers in this life are always the ones who pursue those paths that can help steer man to a more moral and noble existence. I hope.
ChewbaccaD said:
I make a motion that everyone who posts on this thread has to quote the entire original post.
Seconded.
















Iubrcgyu
 

Dr. Maserati

BANNED
Jun 19, 2009
13,250
1
0
singer-songwriter said:
Please forgive my posting this here but I was not able to post my comments in full under the actual article today (http://www.cyclingnews.com/features/...was-the-artist) and I wanted them to be read in their entirety as I feel strongly about this subject that is important in the ongoing recouperation of our sports reputation...

IN RESPONSE TO: wfaulconer post (for some reason there was no "reply" tab on this post!)

(QUOTING wfaulconer post) ... I would have liked him to say, "It's utterly unacceptable that we had to lose a cycling talent so early and in such a tormented way. The way we lived and raced back then was deplorable and will hopefully never be repeated. It was ignorant, selfish and dishonest. For anyone to pay for all that with their life is a terrible waste. I sure hope that competing with me didn't somehow contribute to the level of doping and drug activity he did, but I'm sure that it probably did and I'll never forgive myself for that. I'm lucky. I'm humiliated and ruined, but I'm alive. He wasn't the only one to pay with his life, we let it go on much too long and trusted doctors who really shouldn't have held anyone's lives in their hands. The best thing I can do for the sport since I'm not actually willing to really tell it like it is, is to fade into the background and stay away so better minds and better ideas can prevail. We are all ghosts from the past and we should stop haunting everyone. It's practically sacrilegious to comment on it anymore, we're lucky not to be in jail for all the blood on our hands. If we'd all laid down our guns back then, we could have easily raced each other clean and fair. I wish I had been more brave looking back. It's not like I don't know what bravery is, I've stared death down before. I should have said something no matter the cost. Really I was the only one who could have made it work." ....

TO ALL POSTERS HERE... I felt compelled to join CN today after years of being a non subscribing viewer and quite impulsively after having just read this particular post by wfaulconor.

The mounting pressures within a sport I love very much both as a cyclist and an ever excited viewer of the peloton are reaching a peek or at least a poignant stage within the ongoing unravelling of the sports tarnished reputation. Todays anniversary of the great rider Marco Pantani's tragic death is indeed a stark reminder of why we need to rid professional cycling of all its foul play.

I sympathise with the original poster's comments here but I do think there is still a chance Mr Armstrong may indeed be "willing to really tell it like it is". I think it would be a mistake to banish him at this point "to fade into the background and stay away". Yes! Mr Armstrong is a key culprit in the demise of the sports reputation and he has been slow and cautious to respond but it is his very position in this situation that could be vital to help amend the harm that has occurred. I don't for a moment condone his behaviour nor have any doubts that he deserves the punishment he is now having to deal with as a result of his years of deceit, but I do think one should consider the pressure he must have to face with the force of this punishment and appreciate that it must take immense self-will to accept it, swallow it and move on- hopefully to much more moral ground. That "self-will" I can sense some readers thinking: "Armstrongs old selfish ambition" OK! we know of the mans unrelenting will: so far, for the most part, he has used it immorally but I believe everyone has a right to be given a second chance to make amends and as far as professional cycling's current predicament is concerned this might be a second chance that could well serve to go a long way to help restore the sports reputation. I think the real question here is for how long and how far does a man need to be punished before he is deemed able or disable to prove he can follow the right path?

Yes! we could all interpret his comments on Signor Pantani here as another PR exercise. I deplore any drug induced performances in sport and there is no excuse whatsoever for the drug taking Mr Armstrong or any other cyclist has done including the notion: "if everyone else is doing it why should I believe that my doing it is cheating?" We can all interpret what he says here one way or another but between the lines I think there may be a hint of the mans compassion. Professional cycling is no different from football or any other financially driven sport in that the athletes rely on its reputation to earn a living. The hub of the commercial machine that provides that living is in question now: all the drugs and the riders that become tempted to take them are a by-product of the very way that machine entices the foul play to take place: overpassing moral values and replacing them with self-centred desires and greed: a tragic brainwashing of a noble, competitive spirit. I am not suggesting for a moment that the flaw in the machine is an excuse for those riders who have decided to cheat: they know full well it is wrong and should have made more effort to muster their individual strength to resist. I am not here to put that machine to rights nor argue about the amount footballers or any other professional sports people get payed; but I am here saying that whatever it is within the commercial machine that is causing this brainwashing it needs to be kicked into touch: for good. That machine by the way continues to wreak havoc after the culprits have been caught within it. One could argue that the publics current impatience with Mr Armstrongs failure so far to do something truly positive to help the situation is also a result of the same machine that spits out one of its victims damning him from ever doing something right for a change. We all pay to watch these guys spinning round the globe and without our enthusiasm for the sport it wouldn't exist as a public entertainment. Again I make no excuse for the deceitful but I question the very foundations of the current system that promotes cycling. It is a complex web of connections to bring the sport to the public eye but somewhere within this structure are things that continue to tempt the weak into immoral practice. There will always be greedy people in any warp of life: those that are so are sometimes incapable of changing but the weak should be given a chance.

I think it is possible Mr Armstrong has the capacity and courage to say and do what is right to help the sport amend itself. Indeed, for this to happen Mr Armstrong has to tell the world what he surely must see deep down is not only the truth but is the ultimately important, moral and just thing to do to truly help loosen the awful stigma that surrounds professional cycling. Many would say that he has had ample time to do this and I would agree. However considering the density of the quagmire Mr Armstrong has immersed himself into perhaps each relevant jogging of his memories like the unfortunate demise of Marco Pantani today will goad him eventually into full action rather than continuing, disappointingly, to avoid addressing the real issues full in the face as the original poster understandably expresses.

I believe Mr Armstrong does have the compassion to do this if that compassion is currently buried under what must be piles of ongoing practical pressures and maybe his very own self-centred ambition that unfortunately appears, so far, as an old affliction that continues to dominate his actions in the eyes of the public. I hope Mr Armstrong's ambitious streak is indeed a genuine by-product of what can happen to a gifted athlete as a result of an immorally run commercial machine. If not he should indeed step back from the public eye or at least from the cycling community. However my hunch is that, for the moment, predominantly, it is this seemingly old flaw that still thwarts the mans potential to speak out and do something truly great: something that is so, so needed to help project professional cycling into a new clean arena. However I haven't yet ruled out the possibility of seeing Mr Armstrong's status change. Forgive my perhaps naive, over optimistic nature but perhaps we shouldn't rule out the possibility of events occurring in the not too distant future that could curtail a more hopeful outcome possibly a little like the former impostor Frank Abagnale turned government consultant in the film "Catch Me If You Can"

I really hope that the original passion and drive that saved his own life when he was lying on that bed riddled with cancer was a different kind: one from a person indeed among those with "better minds and better ideas" that can eventually prevail and offer a significant boost to the recovery of a sport we all love and admire. Like many I was drawn by the Armstrong story of the cancer survivor and was increasingly disappointed as the drug stories emerged. Few of us have actually met Lance Armstrong and most of us can only surmise his personality from what we read and see on the media (myself included). Perhaps we should be a little more patient to see if he does indeed put that relentless drive to good use. I think the wait could be an important one for the sport. I hope he stops listening to his lawyers or anyone thriving off his public image even in its current notorious state!: including himself! I hope Mr Armstrong sees the real issues here because the true achievers in this life are always the ones who pursue those paths that can help steer man to a more moral and noble existence. I hope.
Could you expand on the highlighted a little bit.
 
singer-songwriter said:
Please forgive my posting this here but I was not able to post my comments in full under the actual article today (http://www.cyclingnews.com/features/...was-the-artist) and I wanted them to be read in their entirety as I feel strongly about this subject that is important in the ongoing recouperation of our sports reputation...

IN RESPONSE TO: wfaulconer post (for some reason there was no "reply" tab on this post!)

(QUOTING wfaulconer post) ... I would have liked him to say, "It's utterly unacceptable that we had to lose a cycling talent so early and in such a tormented way. The way we lived and raced back then was deplorable and will hopefully never be repeated. It was ignorant, selfish and dishonest. For anyone to pay for all that with their life is a terrible waste. I sure hope that competing with me didn't somehow contribute to the level of doping and drug activity he did, but I'm sure that it probably did and I'll never forgive myself for that. I'm lucky. I'm humiliated and ruined, but I'm alive. He wasn't the only one to pay with his life, we let it go on much too long and trusted doctors who really shouldn't have held anyone's lives in their hands. The best thing I can do for the sport since I'm not actually willing to really tell it like it is, is to fade into the background and stay away so better minds and better ideas can prevail. We are all ghosts from the past and we should stop haunting everyone. It's practically sacrilegious to comment on it anymore, we're lucky not to be in jail for all the blood on our hands. If we'd all laid down our guns back then, we could have easily raced each other clean and fair. I wish I had been more brave looking back. It's not like I don't know what bravery is, I've stared death down before. I should have said something no matter the cost. Really I was the only one who could have made it work." ....

TO ALL POSTERS HERE... I felt compelled to join CN today after years of being a non subscribing viewer and quite impulsively after having just read this particular post by wfaulconor.

The mounting pressures within a sport I love very much both as a cyclist and an ever excited viewer of the peloton are reaching a peek or at least a poignant stage within the ongoing unravelling of the sports tarnished reputation. Todays anniversary of the great rider Marco Pantani's tragic death is indeed a stark reminder of why we need to rid professional cycling of all its foul play.

I sympathise with the original poster's comments here but I do think there is still a chance Mr Armstrong may indeed be "willing to really tell it like it is". I think it would be a mistake to banish him at this point "to fade into the background and stay away". Yes! Mr Armstrong is a key culprit in the demise of the sports reputation and he has been slow and cautious to respond but it is his very position in this situation that could be vital to help amend the harm that has occurred. I don't for a moment condone his behaviour nor have any doubts that he deserves the punishment he is now having to deal with as a result of his years of deceit, but I do think one should consider the pressure he must have to face with the force of this punishment and appreciate that it must take immense self-will to accept it, swallow it and move on- hopefully to much more moral ground. That "self-will" I can sense some readers thinking: "Armstrongs old selfish ambition" OK! we know of the mans unrelenting will: so far, for the most part, he has used it immorally but I believe everyone has a right to be given a second chance to make amends and as far as professional cycling's current predicament is concerned this might be a second chance that could well serve to go a long way to help restore the sports reputation. I think the real question here is for how long and how far does a man need to be punished before he is deemed able or disable to prove he can follow the right path?

Yes! we could all interpret his comments on Signor Pantani here as another PR exercise. I deplore any drug induced performances in sport and there is no excuse whatsoever for the drug taking Mr Armstrong or any other cyclist has done including the notion: "if everyone else is doing it why should I believe that my doing it is cheating?" We can all interpret what he says here one way or another but between the lines I think there may be a hint of the mans compassion. Professional cycling is no different from football or any other financially driven sport in that the athletes rely on its reputation to earn a living. The hub of the commercial machine that provides that living is in question now: all the drugs and the riders that become tempted to take them are a by-product of the very way that machine entices the foul play to take place: overpassing moral values and replacing them with self-centred desires and greed: a tragic brainwashing of a noble, competitive spirit. I am not suggesting for a moment that the flaw in the machine is an excuse for those riders who have decided to cheat: they know full well it is wrong and should have made more effort to muster their individual strength to resist. I am not here to put that machine to rights nor argue about the amount footballers or any other professional sports people get payed; but I am here saying that whatever it is within the commercial machine that is causing this brainwashing it needs to be kicked into touch: for good. That machine by the way continues to wreak havoc after the culprits have been caught within it. One could argue that the publics current impatience with Mr Armstrongs failure so far to do something truly positive to help the situation is also a result of the same machine that spits out one of its victims damning him from ever doing something right for a change. We all pay to watch these guys spinning round the globe and without our enthusiasm for the sport it wouldn't exist as a public entertainment. Again I make no excuse for the deceitful but I question the very foundations of the current system that promotes cycling. It is a complex web of connections to bring the sport to the public eye but somewhere within this structure are things that continue to tempt the weak into immoral practice. There will always be greedy people in any warp of life: those that are so are sometimes incapable of changing but the weak should be given a chance.

I think it is possible Mr Armstrong has the capacity and courage to say and do what is right to help the sport amend itself. Indeed, for this to happen Mr Armstrong has to tell the world what he surely must see deep down is not only the truth but is the ultimately important, moral and just thing to do to truly help loosen the awful stigma that surrounds professional cycling. Many would say that he has had ample time to do this and I would agree. However considering the density of the quagmire Mr Armstrong has immersed himself into perhaps each relevant jogging of his memories like the unfortunate demise of Marco Pantani today will goad him eventually into full action rather than continuing, disappointingly, to avoid addressing the real issues full in the face as the original poster understandably expresses.

I believe Mr Armstrong does have the compassion to do this if that compassion is currently buried under what must be piles of ongoing practical pressures and maybe his very own self-centred ambition that unfortunately appears, so far, as an old affliction that continues to dominate his actions in the eyes of the public. I hope Mr Armstrong's ambitious streak is indeed a genuine by-product of what can happen to a gifted athlete as a result of an immorally run commercial machine. If not he should indeed step back from the public eye or at least from the cycling community. However my hunch is that, for the moment, predominantly, it is this seemingly old flaw that still thwarts the mans potential to speak out and do something truly great: something that is so, so needed to help project professional cycling into a new clean arena. However I haven't yet ruled out the possibility of seeing Mr Armstrong's status change. Forgive my perhaps naive, over optimistic nature but perhaps we shouldn't rule out the possibility of events occurring in the not too distant future that could curtail a more hopeful outcome possibly a little like the former impostor Frank Abagnale turned government consultant in the film "Catch Me If You Can"

I really hope that the original passion and drive that saved his own life when he was lying on that bed riddled with cancer was a different kind: one from a person indeed among those with "better minds and better ideas" that can eventually prevail and offer a significant boost to the recovery of a sport we all love and admire. Like many I was drawn by the Armstrong story of the cancer survivor and was increasingly disappointed as the drug stories emerged. Few of us have actually met Lance Armstrong and most of us can only surmise his personality from what we read and see on the media (myself included). Perhaps we should be a little more patient to see if he does indeed put that relentless drive to good use. I think the wait could be an important one for the sport. I hope he stops listening to his lawyers or anyone thriving off his public image even in its current notorious state!: including himself! I hope Mr Armstrong sees the real issues here because the true achievers in this life are always the ones who pursue those paths that can help steer man to a more moral and noble existence. I hope.
Lance is that you?
:confused:
 
May 26, 2010
28,144
2
0
singer-songwriter said:
Please forgive my posting this here but I was not able to post my comments in full under the actual article today (http://www.cyclingnews.com/features/...was-the-artist) and I wanted them to be read in their entirety as I feel strongly about this subject that is important in the ongoing recouperation of our sports reputation...

IN RESPONSE TO: wfaulconer post (for some reason there was no "reply" tab on this post!)

(QUOTING wfaulconer post) ... I would have liked him to say, "It's utterly unacceptable that we had to lose a cycling talent so early and in such a tormented way. The way we lived and raced back then was deplorable and will hopefully never be repeated. It was ignorant, selfish and dishonest. For anyone to pay for all that with their life is a terrible waste. I sure hope that competing with me didn't somehow contribute to the level of doping and drug activity he did, but I'm sure that it probably did and I'll never forgive myself for that. I'm lucky. I'm humiliated and ruined, but I'm alive. He wasn't the only one to pay with his life, we let it go on much too long and trusted doctors who really shouldn't have held anyone's lives in their hands. The best thing I can do for the sport since I'm not actually willing to really tell it like it is, is to fade into the background and stay away so better minds and better ideas can prevail. We are all ghosts from the past and we should stop haunting everyone. It's practically sacrilegious to comment on it anymore, we're lucky not to be in jail for all the blood on our hands. If we'd all laid down our guns back then, we could have easily raced each other clean and fair. I wish I had been more brave looking back. It's not like I don't know what bravery is, I've stared death down before. I should have said something no matter the cost. Really I was the only one who could have made it work." ....

TO ALL POSTERS HERE... I felt compelled to join CN today after years of being a non subscribing viewer and quite impulsively after having just read this particular post by wfaulconor.

The mounting pressures within a sport I love very much both as a cyclist and an ever excited viewer of the peloton are reaching a peek or at least a poignant stage within the ongoing unravelling of the sports tarnished reputation. Todays anniversary of the great rider Marco Pantani's tragic death is indeed a stark reminder of why we need to rid professional cycling of all its foul play.

I sympathise with the original poster's comments here but I do think there is still a chance Mr Armstrong may indeed be "willing to really tell it like it is". I think it would be a mistake to banish him at this point "to fade into the background and stay away". Yes! Mr Armstrong is a key culprit in the demise of the sports reputation and he has been slow and cautious to respond but it is his very position in this situation that could be vital to help amend the harm that has occurred. I don't for a moment condone his behaviour nor have any doubts that he deserves the punishment he is now having to deal with as a result of his years of deceit, but I do think one should consider the pressure he must have to face with the force of this punishment and appreciate that it must take immense self-will to accept it, swallow it and move on- hopefully to much more moral ground. That "self-will" I can sense some readers thinking: "Armstrongs old selfish ambition" OK! we know of the mans unrelenting will: so far, for the most part, he has used it immorally but I believe everyone has a right to be given a second chance to make amends and as far as professional cycling's current predicament is concerned this might be a second chance that could well serve to go a long way to help restore the sports reputation. I think the real question here is for how long and how far does a man need to be punished before he is deemed able or disable to prove he can follow the right path?

Yes! we could all interpret his comments on Signor Pantani here as another PR exercise. I deplore any drug induced performances in sport and there is no excuse whatsoever for the drug taking Mr Armstrong or any other cyclist has done including the notion: "if everyone else is doing it why should I believe that my doing it is cheating?" We can all interpret what he says here one way or another but between the lines I think there may be a hint of the mans compassion. Professional cycling is no different from football or any other financially driven sport in that the athletes rely on its reputation to earn a living. The hub of the commercial machine that provides that living is in question now: all the drugs and the riders that become tempted to take them are a by-product of the very way that machine entices the foul play to take place: overpassing moral values and replacing them with self-centred desires and greed: a tragic brainwashing of a noble, competitive spirit. I am not suggesting for a moment that the flaw in the machine is an excuse for those riders who have decided to cheat: they know full well it is wrong and should have made more effort to muster their individual strength to resist. I am not here to put that machine to rights nor argue about the amount footballers or any other professional sports people get payed; but I am here saying that whatever it is within the commercial machine that is causing this brainwashing it needs to be kicked into touch: for good. That machine by the way continues to wreak havoc after the culprits have been caught within it. One could argue that the publics current impatience with Mr Armstrongs failure so far to do something truly positive to help the situation is also a result of the same machine that spits out one of its victims damning him from ever doing something right for a change. We all pay to watch these guys spinning round the globe and without our enthusiasm for the sport it wouldn't exist as a public entertainment. Again I make no excuse for the deceitful but I question the very foundations of the current system that promotes cycling. It is a complex web of connections to bring the sport to the public eye but somewhere within this structure are things that continue to tempt the weak into immoral practice. There will always be greedy people in any warp of life: those that are so are sometimes incapable of changing but the weak should be given a chance.

I think it is possible Mr Armstrong has the capacity and courage to say and do what is right to help the sport amend itself. Indeed, for this to happen Mr Armstrong has to tell the world what he surely must see deep down is not only the truth but is the ultimately important, moral and just thing to do to truly help loosen the awful stigma that surrounds professional cycling. Many would say that he has had ample time to do this and I would agree. However considering the density of the quagmire Mr Armstrong has immersed himself into perhaps each relevant jogging of his memories like the unfortunate demise of Marco Pantani today will goad him eventually into full action rather than continuing, disappointingly, to avoid addressing the real issues full in the face as the original poster understandably expresses.

I believe Mr Armstrong does have the compassion to do this if that compassion is currently buried under what must be piles of ongoing practical pressures and maybe his very own self-centred ambition that unfortunately appears, so far, as an old affliction that continues to dominate his actions in the eyes of the public. I hope Mr Armstrong's ambitious streak is indeed a genuine by-product of what can happen to a gifted athlete as a result of an immorally run commercial machine. If not he should indeed step back from the public eye or at least from the cycling community. However my hunch is that, for the moment, predominantly, it is this seemingly old flaw that still thwarts the mans potential to speak out and do something truly great: something that is so, so needed to help project professional cycling into a new clean arena. However I haven't yet ruled out the possibility of seeing Mr Armstrong's status change. Forgive my perhaps naive, over optimistic nature but perhaps we shouldn't rule out the possibility of events occurring in the not too distant future that could curtail a more hopeful outcome possibly a little like the former impostor Frank Abagnale turned government consultant in the film "Catch Me If You Can"

I really hope that the original passion and drive that saved his own life when he was lying on that bed riddled with cancer was a different kind: one from a person indeed among those with "better minds and better ideas" that can eventually prevail and offer a significant boost to the recovery of a sport we all love and admire. Like many I was drawn by the Armstrong story of the cancer survivor and was increasingly disappointed as the drug stories emerged. Few of us have actually met Lance Armstrong and most of us can only surmise his personality from what we read and see on the media (myself included). Perhaps we should be a little more patient to see if he does indeed put that relentless drive to good use. I think the wait could be an important one for the sport. I hope he stops listening to his lawyers or anyone thriving off his public image even in its current notorious state!: including himself! I hope Mr Armstrong sees the real issues here because the true achievers in this life are always the ones who pursue those paths that can help steer man to a more moral and noble existence. I hope.
mewmewmew13 said:
Lance is that you?
:confused:
I guess it is.............:D
 
Feb 14, 2014
9
0
0
hope

ebandit said:
ss truth is lance will climb over anyone to get ahead...........while he is truly driven his energies are reserved for himself and his family

fat pat got it right...........lance has no place in cycling

while our sport is still troubled better put your faith in others to improve things

glad you have signed up to contribute to the forum............in time you
will get used to the b!tchin from other 'smart ar5e' members

Mark L
Hey Mark! thanks for the words of wisdom!

I agree it looks like L.A. may well be self-centred through and through. Of course I hope there are others who may well emerge to pick up this gauntlet. It's just a shame the man who is in the very thick of it at the moment hasn't shown us any true metal. I guess it's hard to swallow the possible fact that this may be the case here and that some people are just not cut out to think any further than about themselves. I have to admit it saddens me very much especially on the anniversary of Marco Pantani's death.

I worship no media personality or any private acquaintances but I admire anyone from either that go on to do commendable things for other people. It's something that makes me proud of the world we live in and can offer hope towards the sustenance of moral values that are after all the foundations of what keep society from loosing its grip totally on reality.
 
singer-songwriter said:
Please forgive my posting this here but I was not able to post my comments in full under the actual article today (http://www.cyclingnews.com/features/...was-the-artist) and I wanted them to be read in their entirety as I feel strongly about this subject that is important in the ongoing recouperation of our sports reputation...

IN RESPONSE TO: wfaulconer post (for some reason there was no "reply" tab on this post!)

(QUOTING wfaulconer post) ... I would have liked him to say, "It's utterly unacceptable that we had to lose a cycling talent so early and in such a tormented way. The way we lived and raced back then was deplorable and will hopefully never be repeated. It was ignorant, selfish and dishonest. For anyone to pay for all that with their life is a terrible waste. I sure hope that competing with me didn't somehow contribute to the level of doping and drug activity he did, but I'm sure that it probably did and I'll never forgive myself for that. I'm lucky. I'm humiliated and ruined, but I'm alive. He wasn't the only one to pay with his life, we let it go on much too long and trusted doctors who really shouldn't have held anyone's lives in their hands. The best thing I can do for the sport since I'm not actually willing to really tell it like it is, is to fade into the background and stay away so better minds and better ideas can prevail. We are all ghosts from the past and we should stop haunting everyone. It's practically sacrilegious to comment on it anymore, we're lucky not to be in jail for all the blood on our hands. If we'd all laid down our guns back then, we could have easily raced each other clean and fair. I wish I had been more brave looking back. It's not like I don't know what bravery is, I've stared death down before. I should have said something no matter the cost. Really I was the only one who could have made it work." ....

TO ALL POSTERS HERE... I felt compelled to join CN today after years of being a non subscribing viewer and quite impulsively after having just read this particular post by wfaulconor.

The mounting pressures within a sport I love very much both as a cyclist and an ever excited viewer of the peloton are reaching a peek or at least a poignant stage within the ongoing unravelling of the sports tarnished reputation. Todays anniversary of the great rider Marco Pantani's tragic death is indeed a stark reminder of why we need to rid professional cycling of all its foul play.

I sympathise with the original poster's comments here but I do think there is still a chance Mr Armstrong may indeed be "willing to really tell it like it is". I think it would be a mistake to banish him at this point "to fade into the background and stay away". Yes! Mr Armstrong is a key culprit in the demise of the sports reputation and he has been slow and cautious to respond but it is his very position in this situation that could be vital to help amend the harm that has occurred. I don't for a moment condone his behaviour nor have any doubts that he deserves the punishment he is now having to deal with as a result of his years of deceit, but I do think one should consider the pressure he must have to face with the force of this punishment and appreciate that it must take immense self-will to accept it, swallow it and move on- hopefully to much more moral ground. That "self-will" I can sense some readers thinking: "Armstrongs old selfish ambition" OK! we know of the mans unrelenting will: so far, for the most part, he has used it immorally but I believe everyone has a right to be given a second chance to make amends and as far as professional cycling's current predicament is concerned this might be a second chance that could well serve to go a long way to help restore the sports reputation. I think the real question here is for how long and how far does a man need to be punished before he is deemed able or disable to prove he can follow the right path?

Yes! we could all interpret his comments on Signor Pantani here as another PR exercise. I deplore any drug induced performances in sport and there is no excuse whatsoever for the drug taking Mr Armstrong or any other cyclist has done including the notion: "if everyone else is doing it why should I believe that my doing it is cheating?" We can all interpret what he says here one way or another but between the lines I think there may be a hint of the mans compassion. Professional cycling is no different from football or any other financially driven sport in that the athletes rely on its reputation to earn a living. The hub of the commercial machine that provides that living is in question now: all the drugs and the riders that become tempted to take them are a by-product of the very way that machine entices the foul play to take place: overpassing moral values and replacing them with self-centred desires and greed: a tragic brainwashing of a noble, competitive spirit. I am not suggesting for a moment that the flaw in the machine is an excuse for those riders who have decided to cheat: they know full well it is wrong and should have made more effort to muster their individual strength to resist. I am not here to put that machine to rights nor argue about the amount footballers or any other professional sports people get payed; but I am here saying that whatever it is within the commercial machine that is causing this brainwashing it needs to be kicked into touch: for good. That machine by the way continues to wreak havoc after the culprits have been caught within it. One could argue that the publics current impatience with Mr Armstrongs failure so far to do something truly positive to help the situation is also a result of the same machine that spits out one of its victims damning him from ever doing something right for a change. We all pay to watch these guys spinning round the globe and without our enthusiasm for the sport it wouldn't exist as a public entertainment. Again I make no excuse for the deceitful but I question the very foundations of the current system that promotes cycling. It is a complex web of connections to bring the sport to the public eye but somewhere within this structure are things that continue to tempt the weak into immoral practice. There will always be greedy people in any warp of life: those that are so are sometimes incapable of changing but the weak should be given a chance.

I think it is possible Mr Armstrong has the capacity and courage to say and do what is right to help the sport amend itself. Indeed, for this to happen Mr Armstrong has to tell the world what he surely must see deep down is not only the truth but is the ultimately important, moral and just thing to do to truly help loosen the awful stigma that surrounds professional cycling. Many would say that he has had ample time to do this and I would agree. However considering the density of the quagmire Mr Armstrong has immersed himself into perhaps each relevant jogging of his memories like the unfortunate demise of Marco Pantani today will goad him eventually into full action rather than continuing, disappointingly, to avoid addressing the real issues full in the face as the original poster understandably expresses.

I believe Mr Armstrong does have the compassion to do this if that compassion is currently buried under what must be piles of ongoing practical pressures and maybe his very own self-centred ambition that unfortunately appears, so far, as an old affliction that continues to dominate his actions in the eyes of the public. I hope Mr Armstrong's ambitious streak is indeed a genuine by-product of what can happen to a gifted athlete as a result of an immorally run commercial machine. If not he should indeed step back from the public eye or at least from the cycling community. However my hunch is that, for the moment, predominantly, it is this seemingly old flaw that still thwarts the mans potential to speak out and do something truly great: something that is so, so needed to help project professional cycling into a new clean arena. However I haven't yet ruled out the possibility of seeing Mr Armstrong's status change. Forgive my perhaps naive, over optimistic nature but perhaps we shouldn't rule out the possibility of events occurring in the not too distant future that could curtail a more hopeful outcome possibly a little like the former impostor Frank Abagnale turned government consultant in the film "Catch Me If You Can"

I really hope that the original passion and drive that saved his own life when he was lying on that bed riddled with cancer was a different kind: one from a person indeed among those with "better minds and better ideas" that can eventually prevail and offer a significant boost to the recovery of a sport we all love and admire. Like many I was drawn by the Armstrong story of the cancer survivor and was increasingly disappointed as the drug stories emerged. Few of us have actually met Lance Armstrong and most of us can only surmise his personality from what we read and see on the media (myself included). Perhaps we should be a little more patient to see if he does indeed put that relentless drive to good use. I think the wait could be an important one for the sport. I hope he stops listening to his lawyers or anyone thriving off his public image even in its current notorious state!: including himself! I hope Mr Armstrong sees the real issues here because the true achievers in this life are always the ones who pursue those paths that can help steer man to a more moral and noble existence. I hope.
oh wait!…'singer-songwriter' ..SHERYL :cool:
 
Feb 14, 2014
9
0
0
good joke?

singer-songwriter said:
Please forgive my posting this here but I was not able to post my comments in full under the actual article today (http://www.cyclingnews.com/features/...was-the-artist) and I wanted them to be read in their entirety as I feel strongly about this subject that is important in the ongoing recouperation of our sports reputation...

IN RESPONSE TO: wfaulconer post (for some reason there was no "reply" tab on this post!)

(QUOTING wfaulconer post) ... I would have liked him to say, ... Really I was the only one who could have made it work." ....

TO ALL POSTERS HERE... I felt compelled to join CN today after years of being a non subscribing viewer and quite impulsively after having just read this particular post by wfaulconor.

The mounting pressures within a sport I love very much both as a cyclist and an ever excited viewer of the peloton are reaching a peek or at least a poignant stage within the ongoing unravelling of the sports tarnished reputation. Todays anniversary of the great rider Marco Pantani's tragic death is indeed a stark reminder of why we need to rid professional cycling of all its foul play.

I sympathise with the original poster's comments here but I do think there is still a chance Mr Armstrong may indeed be "willing to really tell it like it is". I think it would be a mistake to banish him at this point "to fade into the background and stay away". Yes! Mr Armstrong is a key culprit in the demise of the sports reputation and he has been slow and cautious to respond but it is his very position in this situation that could be vital to help amend the harm that has occurred. I don't for a moment condone his behaviour nor have any doubts that he deserves the punishment he is now having to deal with as a result of his years of deceit, but I do think one should consider the pressure he must have to face with the force of this punishment and appreciate that it must take immense self-will to accept it, swallow it and move on- hopefully to much more moral ground. That "self-will" I can sense some readers thinking: "Armstrongs old selfish ambition" OK! we know of the mans unrelenting will: so far, for the most part, he has used it immorally but I believe everyone has a right to be given a second chance to make amends and as far as professional cycling's current predicament is concerned this might be a second chance that could well serve to go a long way to help restore the sports reputation. I think the real question here is for how long and how far does a man need to be punished before he is deemed able or disable to prove he can follow the right path?

Yes! we could all interpret his comments on Signor Pantani here as another PR exercise. I deplore any drug induced performances in sport and there is no excuse whatsoever for the drug taking Mr Armstrong or any other cyclist has done including the notion: "if everyone else is doing it why should I believe that my doing it is cheating?" We can all interpret what he says here one way or another but between the lines I think there may be a hint of the mans compassion. Professional cycling is no different from football or any other financially driven sport in that the athletes rely on its reputation to earn a living. The hub of the commercial machine that provides that living is in question now: all the drugs and the riders that become tempted to take them are a by-product of the very way that machine entices the foul play to take place: overpassing moral values and replacing them with self-centred desires and greed: a tragic brainwashing of a noble, competitive spirit. I am not suggesting for a moment that the flaw in the machine is an excuse for those riders who have decided to cheat: they know full well it is wrong and should have made more effort to muster their individual strength to resist. I am not here to put that machine to rights nor argue about the amount footballers or any other professional sports people get payed; but I am here saying that whatever it is within the commercial machine that is causing this brainwashing it needs to be kicked into touch: for good. That machine by the way continues to wreak havoc after the culprits have been caught within it. One could argue that the publics current impatience with Mr Armstrongs failure so far to do something truly positive to help the situation is also a result of the same machine that spits out one of its victims damning him from ever doing something right for a change. We all pay to watch these guys spinning round the globe and without our enthusiasm for the sport it wouldn't exist as a public entertainment. Again I make no excuse for the deceitful but I question the very foundations of the current system that promotes cycling. It is a complex web of connections to bring the sport to the public eye but somewhere within this structure are things that continue to tempt the weak into immoral practice. There will always be greedy people in any warp of life: those that are so are sometimes incapable of changing but the weak should be given a chance.

I think it is possible Mr Armstrong has the capacity and courage to say and do what is right to help the sport amend itself. Indeed, for this to happen Mr Armstrong has to tell the world what he surely must see deep down is not only the truth but is the ultimately important, moral and just thing to do to truly help loosen the awful stigma that surrounds professional cycling. Many would say that he has had ample time to do this and I would agree. However considering the density of the quagmire Mr Armstrong has immersed himself into perhaps each relevant jogging of his memories like the unfortunate demise of Marco Pantani today will goad him eventually into full action rather than continuing, disappointingly, to avoid addressing the real issues full in the face as the original poster understandably expresses.

I believe Mr Armstrong does have the compassion to do this if that compassion is currently buried under what must be piles of ongoing practical pressures and maybe his very own self-centred ambition that unfortunately appears, so far, as an old affliction that continues to dominate his actions in the eyes of the public. I hope Mr Armstrong's ambitious streak is indeed a genuine by-product of what can happen to a gifted athlete as a result of an immorally run commercial machine. If not he should indeed step back from the public eye or at least from the cycling community. However my hunch is that, for the moment, predominantly, it is this seemingly old flaw that still thwarts the mans potential to speak out and do something truly great: something that is so, so needed to help project professional cycling into a new clean arena. However I haven't yet ruled out the possibility of seeing Mr Armstrong's status change. Forgive my perhaps naive, over optimistic nature but perhaps we shouldn't rule out the possibility of events occurring in the not too distant future that could curtail a more hopeful outcome possibly a little like the former impostor Frank Abagnale turned government consultant in the film "Catch Me If You Can"

I really hope that the original passion and drive that saved his own life when he was lying on that bed riddled with cancer was a different kind: one from a person indeed among those with "better minds and better ideas" that can eventually prevail and offer a significant boost to the recovery of a sport we all love and admire. Like many I was drawn by the Armstrong story of the cancer survivor and was increasingly disappointed as the drug stories emerged. Few of us have actually met Lance Armstrong and most of us can only surmise his personality from what we read and see on the media (myself included). Perhaps we should be a little more patient to see if he does indeed put that relentless drive to good use. I think the wait could be an important one for the sport. I hope he stops listening to his lawyers or anyone thriving off his public image even in its current notorious state!: including himself! I hope Mr Armstrong sees the real issues here because the true achievers in this life are always the ones who pursue those paths that can help steer man to a more moral and noble existence. I hope.
oh wait!…'singer-songwriter' ..SHERYL

You know, I love a good joke and people who know me find my raucous laugh extremely addictive when I hear one. However I'm kind of bored and tired already of reading inappropriate efforts especially ones with zero originality and especially amidst the severity of the subject I have posted about and especially on this particular day, or what's left of it. I would have thought the current miss-conduct and indeed the lack of real commitment conveyed in Armstrongs article about Pantani this morning amidst the current crisis in cycling would be enough maybe at least to provoke a modicum of worthwhile comment. And before you retort with something like "Get a life" or "chill out!.. it was only a joke!" I do know how to relax and I do have a life and a very fortunate one: one in which I play hard, laugh hard, work hard and celebrate hard but always try, all be it not always well, to respect the situation within which I live it. Forgive me, but I am a little perplexed by the frivolity.
 
ChewbaccaD said:
I make a motion that everyone who posts on this thread has to quote the entire original post.
I only wish that we could all put this in our signature.


Originally Posted by singer-songwriter
Please forgive my posting this here but I was not able to post my comments in full under the actual article today (http://www.cyclingnews.com/features/...was-the-artist) and I wanted them to be read in their entirety as I feel strongly about this subject that is important in the ongoing recouperation of our sports reputation...

IN RESPONSE TO: wfaulconer post (for some reason there was no "reply" tab on this post!)

(QUOTING wfaulconer post) ... I would have liked him to say, "It's utterly unacceptable that we had to lose a cycling talent so early and in such a tormented way. The way we lived and raced back then was deplorable and will hopefully never be repeated. It was ignorant, selfish and dishonest. For anyone to pay for all that with their life is a terrible waste. I sure hope that competing with me didn't somehow contribute to the level of doping and drug activity he did, but I'm sure that it probably did and I'll never forgive myself for that. I'm lucky. I'm humiliated and ruined, but I'm alive. He wasn't the only one to pay with his life, we let it go on much too long and trusted doctors who really shouldn't have held anyone's lives in their hands. The best thing I can do for the sport since I'm not actually willing to really tell it like it is, is to fade into the background and stay away so better minds and better ideas can prevail. We are all ghosts from the past and we should stop haunting everyone. It's practically sacrilegious to comment on it anymore, we're lucky not to be in jail for all the blood on our hands. If we'd all laid down our guns back then, we could have easily raced each other clean and fair. I wish I had been more brave looking back. It's not like I don't know what bravery is, I've stared death down before. I should have said something no matter the cost. Really I was the only one who could have made it work." ....

TO ALL POSTERS HERE... I felt compelled to join CN today after years of being a non subscribing viewer and quite impulsively after having just read this particular post by wfaulconor.

The mounting pressures within a sport I love very much both as a cyclist and an ever excited viewer of the peloton are reaching a peek or at least a poignant stage within the ongoing unravelling of the sports tarnished reputation. Todays anniversary of the great rider Marco Pantani's tragic death is indeed a stark reminder of why we need to rid professional cycling of all its foul play.

I sympathise with the original poster's comments here but I do think there is still a chance Mr Armstrong may indeed be "willing to really tell it like it is". I think it would be a mistake to banish him at this point "to fade into the background and stay away". Yes! Mr Armstrong is a key culprit in the demise of the sports reputation and he has been slow and cautious to respond but it is his very position in this situation that could be vital to help amend the harm that has occurred. I don't for a moment condone his behaviour nor have any doubts that he deserves the punishment he is now having to deal with as a result of his years of deceit, but I do think one should consider the pressure he must have to face with the force of this punishment and appreciate that it must take immense self-will to accept it, swallow it and move on- hopefully to much more moral ground. That "self-will" I can sense some readers thinking: "Armstrongs old selfish ambition" OK! we know of the mans unrelenting will: so far, for the most part, he has used it immorally but I believe everyone has a right to be given a second chance to make amends and as far as professional cycling's current predicament is concerned this might be a second chance that could well serve to go a long way to help restore the sports reputation. I think the real question here is for how long and how far does a man need to be punished before he is deemed able or disable to prove he can follow the right path?

Yes! we could all interpret his comments on Signor Pantani here as another PR exercise. I deplore any drug induced performances in sport and there is no excuse whatsoever for the drug taking Mr Armstrong or any other cyclist has done including the notion: "if everyone else is doing it why should I believe that my doing it is cheating?" We can all interpret what he says here one way or another but between the lines I think there may be a hint of the mans compassion. Professional cycling is no different from football or any other financially driven sport in that the athletes rely on its reputation to earn a living. The hub of the commercial machine that provides that living is in question now: all the drugs and the riders that become tempted to take them are a by-product of the very way that machine entices the foul play to take place: overpassing moral values and replacing them with self-centred desires and greed: a tragic brainwashing of a noble, competitive spirit. I am not suggesting for a moment that the flaw in the machine is an excuse for those riders who have decided to cheat: they know full well it is wrong and should have made more effort to muster their individual strength to resist. I am not here to put that machine to rights nor argue about the amount footballers or any other professional sports people get payed; but I am here saying that whatever it is within the commercial machine that is causing this brainwashing it needs to be kicked into touch: for good. That machine by the way continues to wreak havoc after the culprits have been caught within it. One could argue that the publics current impatience with Mr Armstrongs failure so far to do something truly positive to help the situation is also a result of the same machine that spits out one of its victims damning him from ever doing something right for a change. We all pay to watch these guys spinning round the globe and without our enthusiasm for the sport it wouldn't exist as a public entertainment. Again I make no excuse for the deceitful but I question the very foundations of the current system that promotes cycling. It is a complex web of connections to bring the sport to the public eye but somewhere within this structure are things that continue to tempt the weak into immoral practice. There will always be greedy people in any warp of life: those that are so are sometimes incapable of changing but the weak should be given a chance.

I think it is possible Mr Armstrong has the capacity and courage to say and do what is right to help the sport amend itself. Indeed, for this to happen Mr Armstrong has to tell the world what he surely must see deep down is not only the truth but is the ultimately important, moral and just thing to do to truly help loosen the awful stigma that surrounds professional cycling. Many would say that he has had ample time to do this and I would agree. However considering the density of the quagmire Mr Armstrong has immersed himself into perhaps each relevant jogging of his memories like the unfortunate demise of Marco Pantani today will goad him eventually into full action rather than continuing, disappointingly, to avoid addressing the real issues full in the face as the original poster understandably expresses.

I believe Mr Armstrong does have the compassion to do this if that compassion is currently buried under what must be piles of ongoing practical pressures and maybe his very own self-centred ambition that unfortunately appears, so far, as an old affliction that continues to dominate his actions in the eyes of the public. I hope Mr Armstrong's ambitious streak is indeed a genuine by-product of what can happen to a gifted athlete as a result of an immorally run commercial machine. If not he should indeed step back from the public eye or at least from the cycling community. However my hunch is that, for the moment, predominantly, it is this seemingly old flaw that still thwarts the mans potential to speak out and do something truly great: something that is so, so needed to help project professional cycling into a new clean arena. However I haven't yet ruled out the possibility of seeing Mr Armstrong's status change. Forgive my perhaps naive, over optimistic nature but perhaps we shouldn't rule out the possibility of events occurring in the not too distant future that could curtail a more hopeful outcome possibly a little like the former impostor Frank Abagnale turned government consultant in the film "Catch Me If You Can"

I really hope that the original passion and drive that saved his own life when he was lying on that bed riddled with cancer was a different kind: one from a person indeed among those with "better minds and better ideas" that can eventually prevail and offer a significant boost to the recovery of a sport we all love and admire. Like many I was drawn by the Armstrong story of the cancer survivor and was increasingly disappointed as the drug stories emerged. Few of us have actually met Lance Armstrong and most of us can only surmise his personality from what we read and see on the media (myself included). Perhaps we should be a little more patient to see if he does indeed put that relentless drive to good use. I think the wait could be an important one for the sport. I hope he stops listening to his lawyers or anyone thriving off his public image even in its current notorious state!: including himself! I hope Mr Armstrong sees the real issues here because the true achievers in this life are always the ones who pursue those paths that can help steer man to a more moral and noble existence. I hope.
 
in before the lock:roll eyes:


Originally Posted by singer-songwriter
Please forgive my posting this here but I was not able to post my comments in full under the actual article today (http://www.cyclingnews.com/features/...was-the-artist) and I wanted them to be read in their entirety as I feel strongly about this subject that is important in the ongoing recouperation of our sports reputation...

IN RESPONSE TO: wfaulconer post (for some reason there was no "reply" tab on this post!)

(QUOTING wfaulconer post) ... I would have liked him to say, "It's utterly unacceptable that we had to lose a cycling talent so early and in such a tormented way. The way we lived and raced back then was deplorable and will hopefully never be repeated. It was ignorant, selfish and dishonest. For anyone to pay for all that with their life is a terrible waste. I sure hope that competing with me didn't somehow contribute to the level of doping and drug activity he did, but I'm sure that it probably did and I'll never forgive myself for that. I'm lucky. I'm humiliated and ruined, but I'm alive. He wasn't the only one to pay with his life, we let it go on much too long and trusted doctors who really shouldn't have held anyone's lives in their hands. The best thing I can do for the sport since I'm not actually willing to really tell it like it is, is to fade into the background and stay away so better minds and better ideas can prevail. We are all ghosts from the past and we should stop haunting everyone. It's practically sacrilegious to comment on it anymore, we're lucky not to be in jail for all the blood on our hands. If we'd all laid down our guns back then, we could have easily raced each other clean and fair. I wish I had been more brave looking back. It's not like I don't know what bravery is, I've stared death down before. I should have said something no matter the cost. Really I was the only one who could have made it work." ....

TO ALL POSTERS HERE... I felt compelled to join CN today after years of being a non subscribing viewer and quite impulsively after having just read this particular post by wfaulconor.

The mounting pressures within a sport I love very much both as a cyclist and an ever excited viewer of the peloton are reaching a peek or at least a poignant stage within the ongoing unravelling of the sports tarnished reputation. Todays anniversary of the great rider Marco Pantani's tragic death is indeed a stark reminder of why we need to rid professional cycling of all its foul play.

I sympathise with the original poster's comments here but I do think there is still a chance Mr Armstrong may indeed be "willing to really tell it like it is". I think it would be a mistake to banish him at this point "to fade into the background and stay away". Yes! Mr Armstrong is a key culprit in the demise of the sports reputation and he has been slow and cautious to respond but it is his very position in this situation that could be vital to help amend the harm that has occurred. I don't for a moment condone his behaviour nor have any doubts that he deserves the punishment he is now having to deal with as a result of his years of deceit, but I do think one should consider the pressure he must have to face with the force of this punishment and appreciate that it must take immense self-will to accept it, swallow it and move on- hopefully to much more moral ground. That "self-will" I can sense some readers thinking: "Armstrongs old selfish ambition" OK! we know of the mans unrelenting will: so far, for the most part, he has used it immorally but I believe everyone has a right to be given a second chance to make amends and as far as professional cycling's current predicament is concerned this might be a second chance that could well serve to go a long way to help restore the sports reputation. I think the real question here is for how long and how far does a man need to be punished before he is deemed able or disable to prove he can follow the right path?

Yes! we could all interpret his comments on Signor Pantani here as another PR exercise. I deplore any drug induced performances in sport and there is no excuse whatsoever for the drug taking Mr Armstrong or any other cyclist has done including the notion: "if everyone else is doing it why should I believe that my doing it is cheating?" We can all interpret what he says here one way or another but between the lines I think there may be a hint of the mans compassion. Professional cycling is no different from football or any other financially driven sport in that the athletes rely on its reputation to earn a living. The hub of the commercial machine that provides that living is in question now: all the drugs and the riders that become tempted to take them are a by-product of the very way that machine entices the foul play to take place: overpassing moral values and replacing them with self-centred desires and greed: a tragic brainwashing of a noble, competitive spirit. I am not suggesting for a moment that the flaw in the machine is an excuse for those riders who have decided to cheat: they know full well it is wrong and should have made more effort to muster their individual strength to resist. I am not here to put that machine to rights nor argue about the amount footballers or any other professional sports people get payed; but I am here saying that whatever it is within the commercial machine that is causing this brainwashing it needs to be kicked into touch: for good. That machine by the way continues to wreak havoc after the culprits have been caught within it. One could argue that the publics current impatience with Mr Armstrongs failure so far to do something truly positive to help the situation is also a result of the same machine that spits out one of its victims damning him from ever doing something right for a change. We all pay to watch these guys spinning round the globe and without our enthusiasm for the sport it wouldn't exist as a public entertainment. Again I make no excuse for the deceitful but I question the very foundations of the current system that promotes cycling. It is a complex web of connections to bring the sport to the public eye but somewhere within this structure are things that continue to tempt the weak into immoral practice. There will always be greedy people in any warp of life: those that are so are sometimes incapable of changing but the weak should be given a chance.

I think it is possible Mr Armstrong has the capacity and courage to say and do what is right to help the sport amend itself. Indeed, for this to happen Mr Armstrong has to tell the world what he surely must see deep down is not only the truth but is the ultimately important, moral and just thing to do to truly help loosen the awful stigma that surrounds professional cycling. Many would say that he has had ample time to do this and I would agree. However considering the density of the quagmire Mr Armstrong has immersed himself into perhaps each relevant jogging of his memories like the unfortunate demise of Marco Pantani today will goad him eventually into full action rather than continuing, disappointingly, to avoid addressing the real issues full in the face as the original poster understandably expresses.

I believe Mr Armstrong does have the compassion to do this if that compassion is currently buried under what must be piles of ongoing practical pressures and maybe his very own self-centred ambition that unfortunately appears, so far, as an old affliction that continues to dominate his actions in the eyes of the public. I hope Mr Armstrong's ambitious streak is indeed a genuine by-product of what can happen to a gifted athlete as a result of an immorally run commercial machine. If not he should indeed step back from the public eye or at least from the cycling community. However my hunch is that, for the moment, predominantly, it is this seemingly old flaw that still thwarts the mans potential to speak out and do something truly great: something that is so, so needed to help project professional cycling into a new clean arena. However I haven't yet ruled out the possibility of seeing Mr Armstrong's status change. Forgive my perhaps naive, over optimistic nature but perhaps we shouldn't rule out the possibility of events occurring in the not too distant future that could curtail a more hopeful outcome possibly a little like the former impostor Frank Abagnale turned government consultant in the film "Catch Me If You Can"

I really hope that the original passion and drive that saved his own life when he was lying on that bed riddled with cancer was a different kind: one from a person indeed among those with "better minds and better ideas" that can eventually prevail and offer a significant boost to the recovery of a sport we all love and admire. Like many I was drawn by the Armstrong story of the cancer survivor and was increasingly disappointed as the drug stories emerged. Few of us have actually met Lance Armstrong and most of us can only surmise his personality from what we read and see on the media (myself included). Perhaps we should be a little more patient to see if he does indeed put that relentless drive to good use. I think the wait could be an important one for the sport. I hope he stops listening to his lawyers or anyone thriving off his public image even in its current notorious state!: including himself! I hope Mr Armstrong sees the real issues here because the true achievers in this life are always the ones who pursue those paths that can help steer man to a more moral and noble existence. I hope.
 
Feb 14, 2014
9
0
0
?

Originally Posted by singer-songwriter
Please forgive my posting this here but I was not able to post my comments in full under the actual article today (http://www.cyclingnews.com/features/...was-the-artist) and I wanted them to be read in their entirety as I feel strongly about this subject that is important in the ongoing recouperation of our sports reputation...

IN RESPONSE TO: wfaulconer post (for some reason there was no "reply" tab on this post!)

(QUOTING wfaulconer post) ... I would have liked him to say, "It's utterly unacceptable that we had to lose a cycling talent so early and in such a tormented way. The way we lived and raced back then was deplorable and will hopefully never be repeated. It was ignorant, selfish and dishonest. For anyone to pay for all that with their life is a terrible waste. I sure hope that competing with me didn't somehow contribute to the level of doping and drug activity he did, but I'm sure that it probably did and I'll never forgive myself for that. I'm lucky. I'm humiliated and ruined, but I'm alive. He wasn't the only one to pay with his life, we let it go on much too long and trusted doctors who really shouldn't have held anyone's lives in their hands. The best thing I can do for the sport since I'm not actually willing to really tell it like it is, is to fade into the background and stay away so better minds and better ideas can prevail. We are all ghosts from the past and we should stop haunting everyone. It's practically sacrilegious to comment on it anymore, we're lucky not to be in jail for all the blood on our hands. If we'd all laid down our guns back then, we could have easily raced each other clean and fair. I wish I had been more brave looking back. It's not like I don't know what bravery is, I've stared death down before. I should have said something no matter the cost. Really I was the only one who could have made it work." ....

TO ALL POSTERS HERE... I felt compelled to join CN today after years of being a non subscribing viewer and quite impulsively after having just read this particular post by wfaulconor.

The mounting pressures within a sport I love very much both as a cyclist and an ever excited viewer of the peloton are reaching a peek or at least a poignant stage within the ongoing unravelling of the sports tarnished reputation. Todays anniversary of the great rider Marco Pantani's tragic death is indeed a stark reminder of why we need to rid professional cycling of all its foul play.

I sympathise with the original poster's comments here but I do think there is still a chance Mr Armstrong may indeed be "willing to really tell it like it is". I think it would be a mistake to banish him at this point "to fade into the background and stay away". Yes! Mr Armstrong is a key culprit in the demise of the sports reputation and he has been slow and cautious to respond but it is his very position in this situation that could be vital to help amend the harm that has occurred. I don't for a moment condone his behaviour nor have any doubts that he deserves the punishment he is now having to deal with as a result of his years of deceit, but I do think one should consider the pressure he must have to face with the force of this punishment and appreciate that it must take immense self-will to accept it, swallow it and move on- hopefully to much more moral ground. That "self-will" I can sense some readers thinking: "Armstrongs old selfish ambition" OK! we know of the mans unrelenting will: so far, for the most part, he has used it immorally but I believe everyone has a right to be given a second chance to make amends and as far as professional cycling's current predicament is concerned this might be a second chance that could well serve to go a long way to help restore the sports reputation. I think the real question here is for how long and how far does a man need to be punished before he is deemed able or disable to prove he can follow the right path?

Yes! we could all interpret his comments on Signor Pantani here as another PR exercise. I deplore any drug induced performances in sport and there is no excuse whatsoever for the drug taking Mr Armstrong or any other cyclist has done including the notion: "if everyone else is doing it why should I believe that my doing it is cheating?" We can all interpret what he says here one way or another but between the lines I think there may be a hint of the mans compassion. Professional cycling is no different from football or any other financially driven sport in that the athletes rely on its reputation to earn a living. The hub of the commercial machine that provides that living is in question now: all the drugs and the riders that become tempted to take them are a by-product of the very way that machine entices the foul play to take place: overpassing moral values and replacing them with self-centred desires and greed: a tragic brainwashing of a noble, competitive spirit. I am not suggesting for a moment that the flaw in the machine is an excuse for those riders who have decided to cheat: they know full well it is wrong and should have made more effort to muster their individual strength to resist. I am not here to put that machine to rights nor argue about the amount footballers or any other professional sports people get payed; but I am here saying that whatever it is within the commercial machine that is causing this brainwashing it needs to be kicked into touch: for good. That machine by the way continues to wreak havoc after the culprits have been caught within it. One could argue that the publics current impatience with Mr Armstrongs failure so far to do something truly positive to help the situation is also a result of the same machine that spits out one of its victims damning him from ever doing something right for a change. We all pay to watch these guys spinning round the globe and without our enthusiasm for the sport it wouldn't exist as a public entertainment. Again I make no excuse for the deceitful but I question the very foundations of the current system that promotes cycling. It is a complex web of connections to bring the sport to the public eye but somewhere within this structure are things that continue to tempt the weak into immoral practice. There will always be greedy people in any warp of life: those that are so are sometimes incapable of changing but the weak should be given a chance.

I think it is possible Mr Armstrong has the capacity and courage to say and do what is right to help the sport amend itself. Indeed, for this to happen Mr Armstrong has to tell the world what he surely must see deep down is not only the truth but is the ultimately important, moral and just thing to do to truly help loosen the awful stigma that surrounds professional cycling. Many would say that he has had ample time to do this and I would agree. However considering the density of the quagmire Mr Armstrong has immersed himself into perhaps each relevant jogging of his memories like the unfortunate demise of Marco Pantani today will goad him eventually into full action rather than continuing, disappointingly, to avoid addressing the real issues full in the face as the original poster understandably expresses.

I believe Mr Armstrong does have the compassion to do this if that compassion is currently buried under what must be piles of ongoing practical pressures and maybe his very own self-centred ambition that unfortunately appears, so far, as an old affliction that continues to dominate his actions in the eyes of the public. I hope Mr Armstrong's ambitious streak is indeed a genuine by-product of what can happen to a gifted athlete as a result of an immorally run commercial machine. If not he should indeed step back from the public eye or at least from the cycling community. However my hunch is that, for the moment, predominantly, it is this seemingly old flaw that still thwarts the mans potential to speak out and do something truly great: something that is so, so needed to help project professional cycling into a new clean arena. However I haven't yet ruled out the possibility of seeing Mr Armstrong's status change. Forgive my perhaps naive, over optimistic nature but perhaps we shouldn't rule out the possibility of events occurring in the not too distant future that could curtail a more hopeful outcome possibly a little like the former impostor Frank Abagnale turned government consultant in the film "Catch Me If You Can"

I really hope that the original passion and drive that saved his own life when he was lying on that bed riddled with cancer was a different kind: one from a person indeed among those with "better minds and better ideas" that can eventually prevail and offer a significant boost to the recovery of a sport we all love and admire. Like many I was drawn by the Armstrong story of the cancer survivor and was increasingly disappointed as the drug stories emerged. Few of us have actually met Lance Armstrong and most of us can only surmise his personality from what we read and see on the media (myself included). Perhaps we should be a little more patient to see if he does indeed put that relentless drive to good use. I think the wait could be an important one for the sport. I hope he stops listening to his lawyers or anyone thriving off his public image even in its current notorious state!: including himself! I hope Mr Armstrong sees the real issues here because the true achievers in this life are always the ones who pursue those paths that can help steer man to a more moral and noble existence. I hope.[/QUOTE]

mewmewmew13 said:
in before the lock:roll eyes:

Mi dispiace! Davvero, non ti capisco...?
 
May 27, 2012
6,458
0
0
Watching The Armstrong Lie...the Armstrong lie is bigger even than the original post on this thread.

singer-songwriter said:
Please forgive my posting this here but I was not able to post my comments in full under the actual article today (http://www.cyclingnews.com/features/...was-the-artist) and I wanted them to be read in their entirety as I feel strongly about this subject that is important in the ongoing recouperation of our sports reputation...

IN RESPONSE TO: wfaulconer post (for some reason there was no "reply" tab on this post!)

(QUOTING wfaulconer post) ... I would have liked him to say, "It's utterly unacceptable that we had to lose a cycling talent so early and in such a tormented way. The way we lived and raced back then was deplorable and will hopefully never be repeated. It was ignorant, selfish and dishonest. For anyone to pay for all that with their life is a terrible waste. I sure hope that competing with me didn't somehow contribute to the level of doping and drug activity he did, but I'm sure that it probably did and I'll never forgive myself for that. I'm lucky. I'm humiliated and ruined, but I'm alive. He wasn't the only one to pay with his life, we let it go on much too long and trusted doctors who really shouldn't have held anyone's lives in their hands. The best thing I can do for the sport since I'm not actually willing to really tell it like it is, is to fade into the background and stay away so better minds and better ideas can prevail. We are all ghosts from the past and we should stop haunting everyone. It's practically sacrilegious to comment on it anymore, we're lucky not to be in jail for all the blood on our hands. If we'd all laid down our guns back then, we could have easily raced each other clean and fair. I wish I had been more brave looking back. It's not like I don't know what bravery is, I've stared death down before. I should have said something no matter the cost. Really I was the only one who could have made it work." ....

TO ALL POSTERS HERE... I felt compelled to join CN today after years of being a non subscribing viewer and quite impulsively after having just read this particular post by wfaulconor.

The mounting pressures within a sport I love very much both as a cyclist and an ever excited viewer of the peloton are reaching a peek or at least a poignant stage within the ongoing unravelling of the sports tarnished reputation. Todays anniversary of the great rider Marco Pantani's tragic death is indeed a stark reminder of why we need to rid professional cycling of all its foul play.

I sympathise with the original poster's comments here but I do think there is still a chance Mr Armstrong may indeed be "willing to really tell it like it is". I think it would be a mistake to banish him at this point "to fade into the background and stay away". Yes! Mr Armstrong is a key culprit in the demise of the sports reputation and he has been slow and cautious to respond but it is his very position in this situation that could be vital to help amend the harm that has occurred. I don't for a moment condone his behaviour nor have any doubts that he deserves the punishment he is now having to deal with as a result of his years of deceit, but I do think one should consider the pressure he must have to face with the force of this punishment and appreciate that it must take immense self-will to accept it, swallow it and move on- hopefully to much more moral ground. That "self-will" I can sense some readers thinking: "Armstrongs old selfish ambition" OK! we know of the mans unrelenting will: so far, for the most part, he has used it immorally but I believe everyone has a right to be given a second chance to make amends and as far as professional cycling's current predicament is concerned this might be a second chance that could well serve to go a long way to help restore the sports reputation. I think the real question here is for how long and how far does a man need to be punished before he is deemed able or disable to prove he can follow the right path?

Yes! we could all interpret his comments on Signor Pantani here as another PR exercise. I deplore any drug induced performances in sport and there is no excuse whatsoever for the drug taking Mr Armstrong or any other cyclist has done including the notion: "if everyone else is doing it why should I believe that my doing it is cheating?" We can all interpret what he says here one way or another but between the lines I think there may be a hint of the mans compassion. Professional cycling is no different from football or any other financially driven sport in that the athletes rely on its reputation to earn a living. The hub of the commercial machine that provides that living is in question now: all the drugs and the riders that become tempted to take them are a by-product of the very way that machine entices the foul play to take place: overpassing moral values and replacing them with self-centred desires and greed: a tragic brainwashing of a noble, competitive spirit. I am not suggesting for a moment that the flaw in the machine is an excuse for those riders who have decided to cheat: they know full well it is wrong and should have made more effort to muster their individual strength to resist. I am not here to put that machine to rights nor argue about the amount footballers or any other professional sports people get payed; but I am here saying that whatever it is within the commercial machine that is causing this brainwashing it needs to be kicked into touch: for good. That machine by the way continues to wreak havoc after the culprits have been caught within it. One could argue that the publics current impatience with Mr Armstrongs failure so far to do something truly positive to help the situation is also a result of the same machine that spits out one of its victims damning him from ever doing something right for a change. We all pay to watch these guys spinning round the globe and without our enthusiasm for the sport it wouldn't exist as a public entertainment. Again I make no excuse for the deceitful but I question the very foundations of the current system that promotes cycling. It is a complex web of connections to bring the sport to the public eye but somewhere within this structure are things that continue to tempt the weak into immoral practice. There will always be greedy people in any warp of life: those that are so are sometimes incapable of changing but the weak should be given a chance.

I think it is possible Mr Armstrong has the capacity and courage to say and do what is right to help the sport amend itself. Indeed, for this to happen Mr Armstrong has to tell the world what he surely must see deep down is not only the truth but is the ultimately important, moral and just thing to do to truly help loosen the awful stigma that surrounds professional cycling. Many would say that he has had ample time to do this and I would agree. However considering the density of the quagmire Mr Armstrong has immersed himself into perhaps each relevant jogging of his memories like the unfortunate demise of Marco Pantani today will goad him eventually into full action rather than continuing, disappointingly, to avoid addressing the real issues full in the face as the original poster understandably expresses.

I believe Mr Armstrong does have the compassion to do this if that compassion is currently buried under what must be piles of ongoing practical pressures and maybe his very own self-centred ambition that unfortunately appears, so far, as an old affliction that continues to dominate his actions in the eyes of the public. I hope Mr Armstrong's ambitious streak is indeed a genuine by-product of what can happen to a gifted athlete as a result of an immorally run commercial machine. If not he should indeed step back from the public eye or at least from the cycling community. However my hunch is that, for the moment, predominantly, it is this seemingly old flaw that still thwarts the mans potential to speak out and do something truly great: something that is so, so needed to help project professional cycling into a new clean arena. However I haven't yet ruled out the possibility of seeing Mr Armstrong's status change. Forgive my perhaps naive, over optimistic nature but perhaps we shouldn't rule out the possibility of events occurring in the not too distant future that could curtail a more hopeful outcome possibly a little like the former impostor Frank Abagnale turned government consultant in the film "Catch Me If You Can"

I really hope that the original passion and drive that saved his own life when he was lying on that bed riddled with cancer was a different kind: one from a person indeed among those with "better minds and better ideas" that can eventually prevail and offer a significant boost to the recovery of a sport we all love and admire. Like many I was drawn by the Armstrong story of the cancer survivor and was increasingly disappointed as the drug stories emerged. Few of us have actually met Lance Armstrong and most of us can only surmise his personality from what we read and see on the media (myself included). Perhaps we should be a little more patient to see if he does indeed put that relentless drive to good use. I think the wait could be an important one for the sport. I hope he stops listening to his lawyers or anyone thriving off his public image even in its current notorious state!: including himself! I hope Mr Armstrong sees the real issues here because the true achievers in this life are always the ones who pursue those paths that can help steer man to a more moral and noble existence. I hope.
 
Jan 18, 2010
277
0
0
perplexed...really?

singer-songwriter said:
Forgive me, but I am a little perplexed by the frivolity.
If you've followed the clinic for any length of time you shouldn't be "perplexed by the frivolity." That's par for the course and half the fun around here.
 
singer-songwriter said:
Please forgive my posting this here but I was not able to post my comments in full under the actual article today (http://www.cyclingnews.com/features/...was-the-artist) and I wanted them to be read in their entirety as I feel strongly about this subject that is important in the ongoing recouperation of our sports reputation...

IN RESPONSE TO: wfaulconer post (for some reason there was no "reply" tab on this post!)

(QUOTING wfaulconer post) ... I would have liked him to say, "It's utterly unacceptable that we had to lose a cycling talent so early and in such a tormented way. The way we lived and raced back then was deplorable and will hopefully never be repeated. It was ignorant, selfish and dishonest. For anyone to pay for all that with their life is a terrible waste. I sure hope that competing with me didn't somehow contribute to the level of doping and drug activity he did, but I'm sure that it probably did and I'll never forgive myself for that. I'm lucky. I'm humiliated and ruined, but I'm alive. He wasn't the only one to pay with his life, we let it go on much too long and trusted doctors who really shouldn't have held anyone's lives in their hands. The best thing I can do for the sport since I'm not actually willing to really tell it like it is, is to fade into the background and stay away so better minds and better ideas can prevail. We are all ghosts from the past and we should stop haunting everyone. It's practically sacrilegious to comment on it anymore, we're lucky not to be in jail for all the blood on our hands. If we'd all laid down our guns back then, we could have easily raced each other clean and fair. I wish I had been more brave looking back. It's not like I don't know what bravery is, I've stared death down before. I should have said something no matter the cost. Really I was the only one who could have made it work." ....

TO ALL POSTERS HERE... I felt compelled to join CN today after years of being a non subscribing viewer and quite impulsively after having just read this particular post by wfaulconor.

I sympathise with the original poster's comments here but I do think there is still a chance Mr Armstrong may indeed be "willing to really tell it like it is". I think it would be a mistake to banish him at this point "to fade into the background and stay away".



Sorry guys/gals I do not subscribe to the rather juvenile suggestion that the entire post be repeated for every response to this naïve poster. What wfaulconer says is bang on. There is nothing LA can say anymore about doping. The USADA Reasoned Decision and books like Hamilton's tell it all. He MAY be able to contribute something useful to UCI (and his own) corruption.

However anything LA does is self serving and he has huge credibility problems. LA does not care about anyone else than LA and for singer-songwriter to pen a tedious and wearisome tome (including the numerous spelling mistakes) is a waste of CN Forum space.
 
Jul 21, 2012
9,860
0
0
singer-songwriter said:
Originally Posted by singer-songwriter
Please forgive my posting this here but I was not able to post my comments in full under the actual article today (http://www.cyclingnews.com/features/...was-the-artist) and I wanted them to be read in their entirety as I feel strongly about this subject that is important in the ongoing recouperation of our sports reputation...

IN RESPONSE TO: wfaulconer post (for some reason there was no "reply" tab on this post!)

(QUOTING wfaulconer post) ... I would have liked him to say, "It's utterly unacceptable that we had to lose a cycling talent so early and in such a tormented way. The way we lived and raced back then was deplorable and will hopefully never be repeated. It was ignorant, selfish and dishonest. For anyone to pay for all that with their life is a terrible waste. I sure hope that competing with me didn't somehow contribute to the level of doping and drug activity he did, but I'm sure that it probably did and I'll never forgive myself for that. I'm lucky. I'm humiliated and ruined, but I'm alive. He wasn't the only one to pay with his life, we let it go on much too long and trusted doctors who really shouldn't have held anyone's lives in their hands. The best thing I can do for the sport since I'm not actually willing to really tell it like it is, is to fade into the background and stay away so better minds and better ideas can prevail. We are all ghosts from the past and we should stop haunting everyone. It's practically sacrilegious to comment on it anymore, we're lucky not to be in jail for all the blood on our hands. If we'd all laid down our guns back then, we could have easily raced each other clean and fair. I wish I had been more brave looking back. It's not like I don't know what bravery is, I've stared death down before. I should have said something no matter the cost. Really I was the only one who could have made it work." ....

TO ALL POSTERS HERE... I felt compelled to join CN today after years of being a non subscribing viewer and quite impulsively after having just read this particular post by wfaulconor.

The mounting pressures within a sport I love very much both as a cyclist and an ever excited viewer of the peloton are reaching a peek or at least a poignant stage within the ongoing unravelling of the sports tarnished reputation. Todays anniversary of the great rider Marco Pantani's tragic death is indeed a stark reminder of why we need to rid professional cycling of all its foul play.

I sympathise with the original poster's comments here but I do think there is still a chance Mr Armstrong may indeed be "willing to really tell it like it is". I think it would be a mistake to banish him at this point "to fade into the background and stay away". Yes! Mr Armstrong is a key culprit in the demise of the sports reputation and he has been slow and cautious to respond but it is his very position in this situation that could be vital to help amend the harm that has occurred. I don't for a moment condone his behaviour nor have any doubts that he deserves the punishment he is now having to deal with as a result of his years of deceit, but I do think one should consider the pressure he must have to face with the force of this punishment and appreciate that it must take immense self-will to accept it, swallow it and move on- hopefully to much more moral ground. That "self-will" I can sense some readers thinking: "Armstrongs old selfish ambition" OK! we know of the mans unrelenting will: so far, for the most part, he has used it immorally but I believe everyone has a right to be given a second chance to make amends and as far as professional cycling's current predicament is concerned this might be a second chance that could well serve to go a long way to help restore the sports reputation. I think the real question here is for how long and how far does a man need to be punished before he is deemed able or disable to prove he can follow the right path?

Yes! we could all interpret his comments on Signor Pantani here as another PR exercise. I deplore any drug induced performances in sport and there is no excuse whatsoever for the drug taking Mr Armstrong or any other cyclist has done including the notion: "if everyone else is doing it why should I believe that my doing it is cheating?" We can all interpret what he says here one way or another but between the lines I think there may be a hint of the mans compassion. Professional cycling is no different from football or any other financially driven sport in that the athletes rely on its reputation to earn a living. The hub of the commercial machine that provides that living is in question now: all the drugs and the riders that become tempted to take them are a by-product of the very way that machine entices the foul play to take place: overpassing moral values and replacing them with self-centred desires and greed: a tragic brainwashing of a noble, competitive spirit. I am not suggesting for a moment that the flaw in the machine is an excuse for those riders who have decided to cheat: they know full well it is wrong and should have made more effort to muster their individual strength to resist. I am not here to put that machine to rights nor argue about the amount footballers or any other professional sports people get payed; but I am here saying that whatever it is within the commercial machine that is causing this brainwashing it needs to be kicked into touch: for good. That machine by the way continues to wreak havoc after the culprits have been caught within it. One could argue that the publics current impatience with Mr Armstrongs failure so far to do something truly positive to help the situation is also a result of the same machine that spits out one of its victims damning him from ever doing something right for a change. We all pay to watch these guys spinning round the globe and without our enthusiasm for the sport it wouldn't exist as a public entertainment. Again I make no excuse for the deceitful but I question the very foundations of the current system that promotes cycling. It is a complex web of connections to bring the sport to the public eye but somewhere within this structure are things that continue to tempt the weak into immoral practice. There will always be greedy people in any warp of life: those that are so are sometimes incapable of changing but the weak should be given a chance.

I think it is possible Mr Armstrong has the capacity and courage to say and do what is right to help the sport amend itself. Indeed, for this to happen Mr Armstrong has to tell the world what he surely must see deep down is not only the truth but is the ultimately important, moral and just thing to do to truly help loosen the awful stigma that surrounds professional cycling. Many would say that he has had ample time to do this and I would agree. However considering the density of the quagmire Mr Armstrong has immersed himself into perhaps each relevant jogging of his memories like the unfortunate demise of Marco Pantani today will goad him eventually into full action rather than continuing, disappointingly, to avoid addressing the real issues full in the face as the original poster understandably expresses.

I believe Mr Armstrong does have the compassion to do this if that compassion is currently buried under what must be piles of ongoing practical pressures and maybe his very own self-centred ambition that unfortunately appears, so far, as an old affliction that continues to dominate his actions in the eyes of the public. I hope Mr Armstrong's ambitious streak is indeed a genuine by-product of what can happen to a gifted athlete as a result of an immorally run commercial machine. If not he should indeed step back from the public eye or at least from the cycling community. However my hunch is that, for the moment, predominantly, it is this seemingly old flaw that still thwarts the mans potential to speak out and do something truly great: something that is so, so needed to help project professional cycling into a new clean arena. However I haven't yet ruled out the possibility of seeing Mr Armstrong's status change. Forgive my perhaps naive, over optimistic nature but perhaps we shouldn't rule out the possibility of events occurring in the not too distant future that could curtail a more hopeful outcome possibly a little like the former impostor Frank Abagnale turned government consultant in the film "Catch Me If You Can"

I really hope that the original passion and drive that saved his own life when he was lying on that bed riddled with cancer was a different kind: one from a person indeed among those with "better minds and better ideas" that can eventually prevail and offer a significant boost to the recovery of a sport we all love and admire. Like many I was drawn by the Armstrong story of the cancer survivor and was increasingly disappointed as the drug stories emerged. Few of us have actually met Lance Armstrong and most of us can only surmise his personality from what we read and see on the media (myself included). Perhaps we should be a little more patient to see if he does indeed put that relentless drive to good use. I think the wait could be an important one for the sport. I hope he stops listening to his lawyers or anyone thriving off his public image even in its current notorious state!: including himself! I hope Mr Armstrong sees the real issues here because the true achievers in this life are always the ones who pursue those paths that can help steer man to a more moral and noble existence. I hope.
mewmewmew13 said:
in before the lock:roll eyes:

Mi dispiace! Davvero, non ti capisco...?
good post.
 
Feb 14, 2014
9
0
0
waste of space

Sorry guys/gals I do not subscribe to the rather juvenile suggestion that the entire post be repeated for every response to this naïve poster. What wfaulconer says is bang on. There is nothing LA can say anymore about doping. The USADA Reasoned Decision and books like Hamilton's tell it all. He MAY be able to contribute something useful to UCI (and his own) corruption.

However anything LA does is self serving and he has huge credibility problems. LA does not care about anyone else than LA and for singer-songwriter to pen a tedious and wearisome tome (including the numerous spelling mistakes) is a waste of CN Forum space.[/QUOTE]

wow! you certainly know how to sock it to 'em partner!

It wasn't my idea to re-quote my original post any more than it was my intention to provide an exquisite example of perfect English! I thought long and hard about what I wanted to say today and I'm saddened that both my sincerity and unbiased view has provoked such a reaction. I already agreed that Armstrong is probably a lost cause but was merely suggesting that as time passes there's always the possibility of a change of heart and perhaps if you read again what I wrote you may just grasp that its not all about Armstrongs dubious participation.

Anyway, I've read enough and received enough negativity in one day here to last me a lifetime.

You won't see me ever again on this or any other forum on CN so at least you will have a little more space here to yourself.

Adieu!
 
singer-songwriter said:
Anyway, I've read enough and received enough negativity in one day here to last me a lifetime.

You won't see me ever again on this or any other forum on CN so at least you will have a little more space here to yourself.

Adieu!
Swing low sweet chariot
Coming for to carry me home
Swing low sweet chariot
Coming for to carry me home
 
May 27, 2012
6,458
0
0
singer-songwriter said:
Please forgive my posting this here but I was not able to post my comments in full under the actual article today (http://www.cyclingnews.com/features/...was-the-artist) and I wanted them to be read in their entirety as I feel strongly about this subject that is important in the ongoing recouperation of our sports reputation...

IN RESPONSE TO: wfaulconer post (for some reason there was no "reply" tab on this post!)

(QUOTING wfaulconer post) ... I would have liked him to say, "It's utterly unacceptable that we had to lose a cycling talent so early and in such a tormented way. The way we lived and raced back then was deplorable and will hopefully never be repeated. It was ignorant, selfish and dishonest. For anyone to pay for all that with their life is a terrible waste. I sure hope that competing with me didn't somehow contribute to the level of doping and drug activity he did, but I'm sure that it probably did and I'll never forgive myself for that. I'm lucky. I'm humiliated and ruined, but I'm alive. He wasn't the only one to pay with his life, we let it go on much too long and trusted doctors who really shouldn't have held anyone's lives in their hands. The best thing I can do for the sport since I'm not actually willing to really tell it like it is, is to fade into the background and stay away so better minds and better ideas can prevail. We are all ghosts from the past and we should stop haunting everyone. It's practically sacrilegious to comment on it anymore, we're lucky not to be in jail for all the blood on our hands. If we'd all laid down our guns back then, we could have easily raced each other clean and fair. I wish I had been more brave looking back. It's not like I don't know what bravery is, I've stared death down before. I should have said something no matter the cost. Really I was the only one who could have made it work." ....

TO ALL POSTERS HERE... I felt compelled to join CN today after years of being a non subscribing viewer and quite impulsively after having just read this particular post by wfaulconor.

The mounting pressures within a sport I love very much both as a cyclist and an ever excited viewer of the peloton are reaching a peek or at least a poignant stage within the ongoing unravelling of the sports tarnished reputation. Todays anniversary of the great rider Marco Pantani's tragic death is indeed a stark reminder of why we need to rid professional cycling of all its foul play.

I sympathise with the original poster's comments here but I do think there is still a chance Mr Armstrong may indeed be "willing to really tell it like it is". I think it would be a mistake to banish him at this point "to fade into the background and stay away". Yes! Mr Armstrong is a key culprit in the demise of the sports reputation and he has been slow and cautious to respond but it is his very position in this situation that could be vital to help amend the harm that has occurred. I don't for a moment condone his behaviour nor have any doubts that he deserves the punishment he is now having to deal with as a result of his years of deceit, but I do think one should consider the pressure he must have to face with the force of this punishment and appreciate that it must take immense self-will to accept it, swallow it and move on- hopefully to much more moral ground. That "self-will" I can sense some readers thinking: "Armstrongs old selfish ambition" OK! we know of the mans unrelenting will: so far, for the most part, he has used it immorally but I believe everyone has a right to be given a second chance to make amends and as far as professional cycling's current predicament is concerned this might be a second chance that could well serve to go a long way to help restore the sports reputation. I think the real question here is for how long and how far does a man need to be punished before he is deemed able or disable to prove he can follow the right path?

Yes! we could all interpret his comments on Signor Pantani here as another PR exercise. I deplore any drug induced performances in sport and there is no excuse whatsoever for the drug taking Mr Armstrong or any other cyclist has done including the notion: "if everyone else is doing it why should I believe that my doing it is cheating?" We can all interpret what he says here one way or another but between the lines I think there may be a hint of the mans compassion. Professional cycling is no different from football or any other financially driven sport in that the athletes rely on its reputation to earn a living. The hub of the commercial machine that provides that living is in question now: all the drugs and the riders that become tempted to take them are a by-product of the very way that machine entices the foul play to take place: overpassing moral values and replacing them with self-centred desires and greed: a tragic brainwashing of a noble, competitive spirit. I am not suggesting for a moment that the flaw in the machine is an excuse for those riders who have decided to cheat: they know full well it is wrong and should have made more effort to muster their individual strength to resist. I am not here to put that machine to rights nor argue about the amount footballers or any other professional sports people get payed; but I am here saying that whatever it is within the commercial machine that is causing this brainwashing it needs to be kicked into touch: for good. That machine by the way continues to wreak havoc after the culprits have been caught within it. One could argue that the publics current impatience with Mr Armstrongs failure so far to do something truly positive to help the situation is also a result of the same machine that spits out one of its victims damning him from ever doing something right for a change. We all pay to watch these guys spinning round the globe and without our enthusiasm for the sport it wouldn't exist as a public entertainment. Again I make no excuse for the deceitful but I question the very foundations of the current system that promotes cycling. It is a complex web of connections to bring the sport to the public eye but somewhere within this structure are things that continue to tempt the weak into immoral practice. There will always be greedy people in any warp of life: those that are so are sometimes incapable of changing but the weak should be given a chance.

I think it is possible Mr Armstrong has the capacity and courage to say and do what is right to help the sport amend itself. Indeed, for this to happen Mr Armstrong has to tell the world what he surely must see deep down is not only the truth but is the ultimately important, moral and just thing to do to truly help loosen the awful stigma that surrounds professional cycling. Many would say that he has had ample time to do this and I would agree. However considering the density of the quagmire Mr Armstrong has immersed himself into perhaps each relevant jogging of his memories like the unfortunate demise of Marco Pantani today will goad him eventually into full action rather than continuing, disappointingly, to avoid addressing the real issues full in the face as the original poster understandably expresses.

I believe Mr Armstrong does have the compassion to do this if that compassion is currently buried under what must be piles of ongoing practical pressures and maybe his very own self-centred ambition that unfortunately appears, so far, as an old affliction that continues to dominate his actions in the eyes of the public. I hope Mr Armstrong's ambitious streak is indeed a genuine by-product of what can happen to a gifted athlete as a result of an immorally run commercial machine. If not he should indeed step back from the public eye or at least from the cycling community. However my hunch is that, for the moment, predominantly, it is this seemingly old flaw that still thwarts the mans potential to speak out and do something truly great: something that is so, so needed to help project professional cycling into a new clean arena. However I haven't yet ruled out the possibility of seeing Mr Armstrong's status change. Forgive my perhaps naive, over optimistic nature but perhaps we shouldn't rule out the possibility of events occurring in the not too distant future that could curtail a more hopeful outcome possibly a little like the former impostor Frank Abagnale turned government consultant in the film "Catch Me If You Can"

I really hope that the original passion and drive that saved his own life when he was lying on that bed riddled with cancer was a different kind: one from a person indeed among those with "better minds and better ideas" that can eventually prevail and offer a significant boost to the recovery of a sport we all love and admire. Like many I was drawn by the Armstrong story of the cancer survivor and was increasingly disappointed as the drug stories emerged. Few of us have actually met Lance Armstrong and most of us can only surmise his personality from what we read and see on the media (myself included). Perhaps we should be a little more patient to see if he does indeed put that relentless drive to good use. I think the wait could be an important one for the sport. I hope he stops listening to his lawyers or anyone thriving off his public image even in its current notorious state!: including himself! I hope Mr Armstrong sees the real issues here because the true achievers in this life are always the ones who pursue those paths that can help steer man to a more moral and noble existence. I hope.
Bummer, I tried to add every one of your 5 posts to this post, but the character limit is 10K and it was almost 24K...

Anyway, later dude.
 
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