Armstrong - response to his article on Pantani

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Aug 13, 2009
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singer-songwriter said:
Please forgive my posting this here but I was not able to post my comments in full under the actual article today (http://www.cyclingnews.com/features/...was-the-artist) and I wanted them to be read in their entirety as I feel strongly about this subject that is important in the ongoing recouperation of our sports reputation...

IN RESPONSE TO: wfaulconer post (for some reason there was no "reply" tab on this post!)

(QUOTING wfaulconer post) ... I would have liked him to say, "It's utterly unacceptable that we had to lose a cycling talent so early and in such a tormented way. The way we lived and raced back then was deplorable and will hopefully never be repeated. It was ignorant, selfish and dishonest. For anyone to pay for all that with their life is a terrible waste. I sure hope that competing with me didn't somehow contribute to the level of doping and drug activity he did, but I'm sure that it probably did and I'll never forgive myself for that. I'm lucky. I'm humiliated and ruined, but I'm alive. He wasn't the only one to pay with his life, we let it go on much too long and trusted doctors who really shouldn't have held anyone's lives in their hands. The best thing I can do for the sport since I'm not actually willing to really tell it like it is, is to fade into the background and stay away so better minds and better ideas can prevail. We are all ghosts from the past and we should stop haunting everyone. It's practically sacrilegious to comment on it anymore, we're lucky not to be in jail for all the blood on our hands. If we'd all laid down our guns back then, we could have easily raced each other clean and fair. I wish I had been more brave looking back. It's not like I don't know what bravery is, I've stared death down before. I should have said something no matter the cost. Really I was the only one who could have made it work." ....

TO ALL POSTERS HERE... I felt compelled to join CN today after years of being a non subscribing viewer and quite impulsively after having just read this particular post by wfaulconor.

The mounting pressures within a sport I love very much both as a cyclist and an ever excited viewer of the peloton are reaching a peek or at least a poignant stage within the ongoing unravelling of the sports tarnished reputation. Todays anniversary of the great rider Marco Pantani's tragic death is indeed a stark reminder of why we need to rid professional cycling of all its foul play.

I sympathise with the original poster's comments here but I do think there is still a chance Mr Armstrong may indeed be "willing to really tell it like it is". I think it would be a mistake to banish him at this point "to fade into the background and stay away". Yes! Mr Armstrong is a key culprit in the demise of the sports reputation and he has been slow and cautious to respond but it is his very position in this situation that could be vital to help amend the harm that has occurred. I don't for a moment condone his behaviour nor have any doubts that he deserves the punishment he is now having to deal with as a result of his years of deceit, but I do think one should consider the pressure he must have to face with the force of this punishment and appreciate that it must take immense self-will to accept it, swallow it and move on- hopefully to much more moral ground. That "self-will" I can sense some readers thinking: "Armstrongs old selfish ambition" OK! we know of the mans unrelenting will: so far, for the most part, he has used it immorally but I believe everyone has a right to be given a second chance to make amends and as far as professional cycling's current predicament is concerned this might be a second chance that could well serve to go a long way to help restore the sports reputation. I think the real question here is for how long and how far does a man need to be punished before he is deemed able or disable to prove he can follow the right path?

Yes! we could all interpret his comments on Signor Pantani here as another PR exercise. I deplore any drug induced performances in sport and there is no excuse whatsoever for the drug taking Mr Armstrong or any other cyclist has done including the notion: "if everyone else is doing it why should I believe that my doing it is cheating?" We can all interpret what he says here one way or another but between the lines I think there may be a hint of the mans compassion. Professional cycling is no different from football or any other financially driven sport in that the athletes rely on its reputation to earn a living. The hub of the commercial machine that provides that living is in question now: all the drugs and the riders that become tempted to take them are a by-product of the very way that machine entices the foul play to take place: overpassing moral values and replacing them with self-centred desires and greed: a tragic brainwashing of a noble, competitive spirit. I am not suggesting for a moment that the flaw in the machine is an excuse for those riders who have decided to cheat: they know full well it is wrong and should have made more effort to muster their individual strength to resist. I am not here to put that machine to rights nor argue about the amount footballers or any other professional sports people get payed; but I am here saying that whatever it is within the commercial machine that is causing this brainwashing it needs to be kicked into touch: for good. That machine by the way continues to wreak havoc after the culprits have been caught within it. One could argue that the publics current impatience with Mr Armstrongs failure so far to do something truly positive to help the situation is also a result of the same machine that spits out one of its victims damning him from ever doing something right for a change. We all pay to watch these guys spinning round the globe and without our enthusiasm for the sport it wouldn't exist as a public entertainment. Again I make no excuse for the deceitful but I question the very foundations of the current system that promotes cycling. It is a complex web of connections to bring the sport to the public eye but somewhere within this structure are things that continue to tempt the weak into immoral practice. There will always be greedy people in any warp of life: those that are so are sometimes incapable of changing but the weak should be given a chance.

I think it is possible Mr Armstrong has the capacity and courage to say and do what is right to help the sport amend itself. Indeed, for this to happen Mr Armstrong has to tell the world what he surely must see deep down is not only the truth but is the ultimately important, moral and just thing to do to truly help loosen the awful stigma that surrounds professional cycling. Many would say that he has had ample time to do this and I would agree. However considering the density of the quagmire Mr Armstrong has immersed himself into perhaps each relevant jogging of his memories like the unfortunate demise of Marco Pantani today will goad him eventually into full action rather than continuing, disappointingly, to avoid addressing the real issues full in the face as the original poster understandably expresses.

I believe Mr Armstrong does have the compassion to do this if that compassion is currently buried under what must be piles of ongoing practical pressures and maybe his very own self-centred ambition that unfortunately appears, so far, as an old affliction that continues to dominate his actions in the eyes of the public. I hope Mr Armstrong's ambitious streak is indeed a genuine by-product of what can happen to a gifted athlete as a result of an immorally run commercial machine. If not he should indeed step back from the public eye or at least from the cycling community. However my hunch is that, for the moment, predominantly, it is this seemingly old flaw that still thwarts the mans potential to speak out and do something truly great: something that is so, so needed to help project professional cycling into a new clean arena. However I haven't yet ruled out the possibility of seeing Mr Armstrong's status change. Forgive my perhaps naive, over optimistic nature but perhaps we shouldn't rule out the possibility of events occurring in the not too distant future that could curtail a more hopeful outcome possibly a little like the former impostor Frank Abagnale turned government consultant in the film "Catch Me If You Can"

I really hope that the original passion and drive that saved his own life when he was lying on that bed riddled with cancer was a different kind: one from a person indeed among those with "better minds and better ideas" that can eventually prevail and offer a significant boost to the recovery of a sport we all love and admire. Like many I was drawn by the Armstrong story of the cancer survivor and was increasingly disappointed as the drug stories emerged. Few of us have actually met Lance Armstrong and most of us can only surmise his personality from what we read and see on the media (myself included). Perhaps we should be a little more patient to see if he does indeed put that relentless drive to good use. I think the wait could be an important one for the sport. I hope he stops listening to his lawyers or anyone thriving off his public image even in its current notorious state!: including himself! I hope Mr Armstrong sees the real issues here because the true achievers in this life are always the ones who pursue those paths that can help steer man to a more moral and noble existence. I hope.
Cool story bro
 
Dec 7, 2010
5,507
0
0
singer-songwriter said:
Please forgive my posting this here but I was not able to post my comments in full under the actual article today (http://www.cyclingnews.com/features/...was-the-artist) and I wanted them to be read in their entirety as I feel strongly about this subject that is important in the ongoing recouperation of our sports reputation...

IN RESPONSE TO: wfaulconer post (for some reason there was no "reply" tab on this post!)

(QUOTING wfaulconer post) ... I would have liked him to say, "It's utterly unacceptable that we had to lose a cycling talent so early and in such a tormented way. The way we lived and raced back then was deplorable and will hopefully never be repeated. It was ignorant, selfish and dishonest. For anyone to pay for all that with their life is a terrible waste. I sure hope that competing with me didn't somehow contribute to the level of doping and drug activity he did, but I'm sure that it probably did and I'll never forgive myself for that. I'm lucky. I'm humiliated and ruined, but I'm alive. He wasn't the only one to pay with his life, we let it go on much too long and trusted doctors who really shouldn't have held anyone's lives in their hands. The best thing I can do for the sport since I'm not actually willing to really tell it like it is, is to fade into the background and stay away so better minds and better ideas can prevail. We are all ghosts from the past and we should stop haunting everyone. It's practically sacrilegious to comment on it anymore, we're lucky not to be in jail for all the blood on our hands. If we'd all laid down our guns back then, we could have easily raced each other clean and fair. I wish I had been more brave looking back. It's not like I don't know what bravery is, I've stared death down before. I should have said something no matter the cost. Really I was the only one who could have made it work." ....

TO ALL POSTERS HERE... I felt compelled to join CN today after years of being a non subscribing viewer and quite impulsively after having just read this particular post by wfaulconor.

The mounting pressures within a sport I love very much both as a cyclist and an ever excited viewer of the peloton are reaching a peek or at least a poignant stage within the ongoing unravelling of the sports tarnished reputation. Todays anniversary of the great rider Marco Pantani's tragic death is indeed a stark reminder of why we need to rid professional cycling of all its foul play.

I sympathise with the original poster's comments here but I do think there is still a chance Mr Armstrong may indeed be "willing to really tell it like it is". I think it would be a mistake to banish him at this point "to fade into the background and stay away". Yes! Mr Armstrong is a key culprit in the demise of the sports reputation and he has been slow and cautious to respond but it is his very position in this situation that could be vital to help amend the harm that has occurred. I don't for a moment condone his behaviour nor have any doubts that he deserves the punishment he is now having to deal with as a result of his years of deceit, but I do think one should consider the pressure he must have to face with the force of this punishment and appreciate that it must take immense self-will to accept it, swallow it and move on- hopefully to much more moral ground. That "self-will" I can sense some readers thinking: "Armstrongs old selfish ambition" OK! we know of the mans unrelenting will: so far, for the most part, he has used it immorally but I believe everyone has a right to be given a second chance to make amends and as far as professional cycling's current predicament is concerned this might be a second chance that could well serve to go a long way to help restore the sports reputation. I think the real question here is for how long and how far does a man need to be punished before he is deemed able or disable to prove he can follow the right path?

Yes! we could all interpret his comments on Signor Pantani here as another PR exercise. I deplore any drug induced performances in sport and there is no excuse whatsoever for the drug taking Mr Armstrong or any other cyclist has done including the notion: "if everyone else is doing it why should I believe that my doing it is cheating?" We can all interpret what he says here one way or another but between the lines I think there may be a hint of the mans compassion. Professional cycling is no different from football or any other financially driven sport in that the athletes rely on its reputation to earn a living. The hub of the commercial machine that provides that living is in question now: all the drugs and the riders that become tempted to take them are a by-product of the very way that machine entices the foul play to take place: overpassing moral values and replacing them with self-centred desires and greed: a tragic brainwashing of a noble, competitive spirit. I am not suggesting for a moment that the flaw in the machine is an excuse for those riders who have decided to cheat: they know full well it is wrong and should have made more effort to muster their individual strength to resist. I am not here to put that machine to rights nor argue about the amount footballers or any other professional sports people get payed; but I am here saying that whatever it is within the commercial machine that is causing this brainwashing it needs to be kicked into touch: for good. That machine by the way continues to wreak havoc after the culprits have been caught within it. One could argue that the publics current impatience with Mr Armstrongs failure so far to do something truly positive to help the situation is also a result of the same machine that spits out one of its victims damning him from ever doing something right for a change. We all pay to watch these guys spinning round the globe and without our enthusiasm for the sport it wouldn't exist as a public entertainment. Again I make no excuse for the deceitful but I question the very foundations of the current system that promotes cycling. It is a complex web of connections to bring the sport to the public eye but somewhere within this structure are things that continue to tempt the weak into immoral practice. There will always be greedy people in any warp of life: those that are so are sometimes incapable of changing but the weak should be given a chance.

I think it is possible Mr Armstrong has the capacity and courage to say and do what is right to help the sport amend itself. Indeed, for this to happen Mr Armstrong has to tell the world what he surely must see deep down is not only the truth but is the ultimately important, moral and just thing to do to truly help loosen the awful stigma that surrounds professional cycling. Many would say that he has had ample time to do this and I would agree. However considering the density of the quagmire Mr Armstrong has immersed himself into perhaps each relevant jogging of his memories like the unfortunate demise of Marco Pantani today will goad him eventually into full action rather than continuing, disappointingly, to avoid addressing the real issues full in the face as the original poster understandably expresses.

I believe Mr Armstrong does have the compassion to do this if that compassion is currently buried under what must be piles of ongoing practical pressures and maybe his very own self-centred ambition that unfortunately appears, so far, as an old affliction that continues to dominate his actions in the eyes of the public. I hope Mr Armstrong's ambitious streak is indeed a genuine by-product of what can happen to a gifted athlete as a result of an immorally run commercial machine. If not he should indeed step back from the public eye or at least from the cycling community. However my hunch is that, for the moment, predominantly, it is this seemingly old flaw that still thwarts the mans potential to speak out and do something truly great: something that is so, so needed to help project professional cycling into a new clean arena. However I haven't yet ruled out the possibility of seeing Mr Armstrong's status change. Forgive my perhaps naive, over optimistic nature but perhaps we shouldn't rule out the possibility of events occurring in the not too distant future that could curtail a more hopeful outcome possibly a little like the former impostor Frank Abagnale turned government consultant in the film "Catch Me If You Can"

I really hope that the original passion and drive that saved his own life when he was lying on that bed riddled with cancer was a different kind: one from a person indeed among those with "better minds and better ideas" that can eventually prevail and offer a significant boost to the recovery of a sport we all love and admire. Like many I was drawn by the Armstrong story of the cancer survivor and was increasingly disappointed as the drug stories emerged. Few of us have actually met Lance Armstrong and most of us can only surmise his personality from what we read and see on the media (myself included). Perhaps we should be a little more patient to see if he does indeed put that relentless drive to good use. I think the wait could be an important one for the sport. I hope he stops listening to his lawyers or anyone thriving off his public image even in its current notorious state!: including himself! I hope Mr Armstrong sees the real issues here because the true achievers in this life are always the ones who pursue those paths that can help steer man to a more moral and noble existence. I hope.
Like watering a beautiful plant and watching it grow.

This thread almost brings a tear to my eye.


 
value

ss call me naive but i value your contribution

on one hand i am bemused by the responses from my erstwhile friends but after being a member for a year+ i should be used to such

your post may have been better placed in the lance thread rather than in a new thread.........that's another forum rule........then i guess your post would not have caught so much flak

you highlighted the truth lance is stuck between a rock and a hard place but they are problems of his own making

if only he did not have such a need for recognition he could still sit back in comfort with good after dinner tales to tell

again i enjoyed 'the armstrong lie' my favourite bits were when betsy waved to me and armstrongs face when he was beaten in the tdf prologue

hard man?............he looked as though he was going to cry

enjoy the forum.......it's been a steep learning curve and can only get better

Mark L
 
As already mentioned, the length of your post is commendable. It's breadth is lacking though, but does have potential. It's not too late. Perhaps somebody could add one of those humongous images that everybody loves so much? I have tried and failed, my phone won't cooperate with me (a fact that also makes scrolling through this thread even more lovely). Maybe a photo with lance giving his speech on the podium with Jan & Ivan in the background. Or him snarling at Floyd. Or one with him an Simeoni. Anything will do I guess.

I would also like to commend all the participants in this thread, and the mods, for putting aside their differences for some good humor. (Some of us are easily entertained). Albeit at the expense of our new member. Chin up SS.


singer-songwriter said:
Please forgive my posting this here but I was not able to post my comments in full under the actual article today (http://www.cyclingnews.com/features/...was-the-artist) and I wanted them to be read in their entirety as I feel strongly about this subject that is important in the ongoing recouperation of our sports reputation...

IN RESPONSE TO: wfaulconer post (for some reason there was no "reply" tab on this post!)

(QUOTING wfaulconer post) ... I would have liked him to say, "It's utterly unacceptable that we had to lose a cycling talent so early and in such a tormented way. The way we lived and raced back then was deplorable and will hopefully never be repeated. It was ignorant, selfish and dishonest. For anyone to pay for all that with their life is a terrible waste. I sure hope that competing with me didn't somehow contribute to the level of doping and drug activity he did, but I'm sure that it probably did and I'll never forgive myself for that. I'm lucky. I'm humiliated and ruined, but I'm alive. He wasn't the only one to pay with his life, we let it go on much too long and trusted doctors who really shouldn't have held anyone's lives in their hands. The best thing I can do for the sport since I'm not actually willing to really tell it like it is, is to fade into the background and stay away so better minds and better ideas can prevail. We are all ghosts from the past and we should stop haunting everyone. It's practically sacrilegious to comment on it anymore, we're lucky not to be in jail for all the blood on our hands. If we'd all laid down our guns back then, we could have easily raced each other clean and fair. I wish I had been more brave looking back. It's not like I don't know what bravery is, I've stared death down before. I should have said something no matter the cost. Really I was the only one who could have made it work." ....

TO ALL POSTERS HERE... I felt compelled to join CN today after years of being a non subscribing viewer and quite impulsively after having just read this particular post by wfaulconor.

The mounting pressures within a sport I love very much both as a cyclist and an ever excited viewer of the peloton are reaching a peek or at least a poignant stage within the ongoing unravelling of the sports tarnished reputation. Todays anniversary of the great rider Marco Pantani's tragic death is indeed a stark reminder of why we need to rid professional cycling of all its foul play.

I sympathise with the original poster's comments here but I do think there is still a chance Mr Armstrong may indeed be "willing to really tell it like it is". I think it would be a mistake to banish him at this point "to fade into the background and stay away". Yes! Mr Armstrong is a key culprit in the demise of the sports reputation and he has been slow and cautious to respond but it is his very position in this situation that could be vital to help amend the harm that has occurred. I don't for a moment condone his behaviour nor have any doubts that he deserves the punishment he is now having to deal with as a result of his years of deceit, but I do think one should consider the pressure he must have to face with the force of this punishment and appreciate that it must take immense self-will to accept it, swallow it and move on- hopefully to much more moral ground. That "self-will" I can sense some readers thinking: "Arms

...

man need to be punished before he is deemed able or disable to prove he can follow the right path?

Yes! we could all interpret his comments on Signor Pantani here as another PR exercise. I deplore any drug induced performances in sport and there is no excuse whatsoever for the drug taking Mr Armstrong or any other cyclist has done including the notion: "if everyone else is doing it why should I believe that my doing it is cheating?" We can all interpret what he says here one way or another but between the lines I think there may be a hint of the mans compassion. Professional cycling is no different from football or any other financially driven sport in that the athletes rely on its reputation to earn a living. The hub of the commercial machine that provides that living is in question now: all the drugs and the riders that become tempted to take them are a by-product of the very way that machine entices the foul play to take place: overpassing moral values and replacing them with self-centred desires and greed: a tragic brainwashing of a noble, competitive spirit. I am not suggesting for a moment that the flaw in the machine is an excuse for those riders who have decided to cheat: they know full well it is wrong and should have made more effort to muster their individual strength to resist. I am not here to put that machine to rights nor argue about the amount footballers or any other professional sports people get payed; but I am here saying that whatever it is within the commercial machine that is causing this brainwashing it needs to be kicked into touch: for good. That machine by the way continues to wreak havoc after the culprits have been caught within it. One could argue that the publics current impatience with Mr Armstrongs failure so far to do something truly positive to help the situation is also a result of the same machine that spits out one of its victims damning him from ever doing something right for a change. We all pay to watch these guys spinning round the globe and without our enthusiasm for the sport it wouldn't exist as a public entertainment. Again I make no excuse for the deceitful but I question the very foundations of the current system that promotes cycling. It is a complex web of connections to bring the sport to the public eye but somewhere within this structure are things that continue to tempt the weak into immoral practice. There will always be greedy people in any warp of life: those that are so are sometimes incapable of changing but the weak should be given a chance.

I think it is possible Mr Armstrong has the capacity and courage to say and do what is right to help the sport amend itself. Indeed, for this to happen Mr Armstrong has to tell the world what he surely must see deep down is not only the truth but is the ultimately important, moral and just thing to do to truly help loosen the awful stigma that surrounds professional cycling. Many would say that he has had ample time to do this and I would agree. However considering the density of the quagmire Mr Armstrong has immersed himself into perhaps each relevant jogging of his memories like the unfortunate demise of Marco Pantani today will goad him eventually into full action rather than continuing, disappointingly, to avoid addressing the real issues full in the face as the original poster understandably expresses.

I believe Mr Armstrong does have the compassion to do this if that compassion is currently buried under what must be piles of ongoing practical pressures and maybe his very own self-centred ambition that unfortunately appears, so far, as an old affliction that continues to dominate his actions in the eyes of the public. I hope Mr Armstrong's ambitious streak is indeed a genuine by-product of what can happen to a gifted athlete as a result of an immorally run commercial machine. If not he should indeed step back from the public eye or at least from the cycling community. However my hunch is that, for the moment, predominantly, it is this seemingly old flaw that still thwarts the mans potential to speak out and do something truly great: something that is so, so needed to help project professional cycling into a new clean arena. However I haven't yet ruled out the possibility of seeing Mr Armstrong's status change. Forgive my perhaps naive, over optimistic nature but perhaps we shouldn't rule out the possibility of events occurring in the not too distant future that could curtail a more hopeful outcome possibly a little like the former impostor Frank Abagnale turned government consultant in the film "Catch Me If You Can"

I really hope that the original passion and drive that saved his own life when he was lying on that bed riddled with cancer was a different kind: one from a person indeed among those with "better minds and better ideas" that can eventually prevail and offer a significant boost to the recovery of a sport we all love and admire. Like many I was drawn by the Armstrong story of the cancer survivor and was increasingly disappointed as the drug stories emerged. Few of us have actually met Lance Armstrong and most of us can only surmise his personality from what we read and see on the media (myself included). Perhaps we should be a little more patient to see if he does indeed put that relentless drive to good use. I think the wait could be an important one for the sport. I hope he stops listening to his lawyers or anyone thriving off his public image even in its current notorious state!: including himself! I hope Mr Armstrong sees the real issues here because the true achievers in this life are always the ones who pursue those paths that can help steer man to a more moral and noble existence. I hope.
 
singer-songwriter said:
Please forgive my posting this here but I was not able to post my comments in full under the actual article today (http://www.cyclingnews.com/features/...was-the-artist) and I wanted them to be read in their entirety as I feel strongly about this subject that is important in the ongoing recouperation of our sports reputation...

IN RESPONSE TO: wfaulconer post (for some reason there was no "reply" tab on this post!)

(QUOTING wfaulconer post) ... I would have liked him to say, "It's utterly unacceptable that we had to lose a cycling talent so early and in such a tormented way. The way we lived and raced back then was deplorable and will hopefully never be repeated. It was ignorant, selfish and dishonest. For anyone to pay for all that with their life is a terrible waste. I sure hope that competing with me didn't somehow contribute to the level of doping and drug activity he did, but I'm sure that it probably did and I'll never forgive myself for that. I'm lucky. I'm humiliated and ruined, but I'm alive. He wasn't the only one to pay with his life, we let it go on much too long and trusted doctors who really shouldn't have held anyone's lives in their hands. The best thing I can do for the sport since I'm not actually willing to really tell it like it is, is to fade into the background and stay away so better minds and better ideas can prevail. We are all ghosts from the past and we should stop haunting everyone. It's practically sacrilegious to comment on it anymore, we're lucky not to be in jail for all the blood on our hands. If we'd all laid down our guns back then, we could have easily raced each other clean and fair. I wish I had been more brave looking back. It's not like I don't know what bravery is, I've stared death down before. I should have said something no matter the cost. Really I was the only one who could have made it work." ....

TO ALL POSTERS HERE... I felt compelled to join CN today after years of being a non subscribing viewer and quite impulsively after having just read this particular post by wfaulconor.

The mounting pressures within a sport I love very much both as a cyclist and an ever excited viewer of the peloton are reaching a peek or at least a poignant stage within the ongoing unravelling of the sports tarnished reputation. Todays anniversary of the great rider Marco Pantani's tragic death is indeed a stark reminder of why we need to rid professional cycling of all its foul play.

I sympathise with the original poster's comments here but I do think there is still a chance Mr Armstrong may indeed be "willing to really tell it like it is". I think it would be a mistake to banish him at this point "to fade into the background and stay away". Yes! Mr Armstrong is a key culprit in the demise of the sports reputation and he has been slow and cautious to respond but it is his very position in this situation that could be vital to help amend the harm that has occurred. I don't for a moment condone his behaviour nor have any doubts that he deserves the punishment he is now having to deal with as a result of his years of deceit, but I do think one should consider the pressure he must have to face with the force of this punishment and appreciate that it must take immense self-will to accept it, swallow it and move on- hopefully to much more moral ground. That "self-will" I can sense some readers thinking: "Armstrongs old selfish ambition" OK! we know of the mans unrelenting will: so far, for the most part, he has used it immorally but I believe everyone has a right to be given a second chance to make amends and as far as professional cycling's current predicament is concerned this might be a second chance that could well serve to go a long way to help restore the sports reputation. I think the real question here is for how long and how far does a man need to be punished before he is deemed able or disable to prove he can follow the right path?

Yes! we could all interpret his comments on Signor Pantani here as another PR exercise. I deplore any drug induced performances in sport and there is no excuse whatsoever for the drug taking Mr Armstrong or any other cyclist has done including the notion: "if everyone else is doing it why should I believe that my doing it is cheating?" We can all interpret what he says here one way or another but between the lines I think there may be a hint of the mans compassion. Professional cycling is no different from football or any other financially driven sport in that the athletes rely on its reputation to earn a living. The hub of the commercial machine that provides that living is in question now: all the drugs and the riders that become tempted to take them are a by-product of the very way that machine entices the foul play to take place: overpassing moral values and replacing them with self-centred desires and greed: a tragic brainwashing of a noble, competitive spirit. I am not suggesting for a moment that the flaw in the machine is an excuse for those riders who have decided to cheat: they know full well it is wrong and should have made more effort to muster their individual strength to resist. I am not here to put that machine to rights nor argue about the amount footballers or any other professional sports people get payed; but I am here saying that whatever it is within the commercial machine that is causing this brainwashing it needs to be kicked into touch: for good. That machine by the way continues to wreak havoc after the culprits have been caught within it. One could argue that the publics current impatience with Mr Armstrongs failure so far to do something truly positive to help the situation is also a result of the same machine that spits out one of its victims damning him from ever doing something right for a change. We all pay to watch these guys spinning round the globe and without our enthusiasm for the sport it wouldn't exist as a public entertainment. Again I make no excuse for the deceitful but I question the very foundations of the current system that promotes cycling. It is a complex web of connections to bring the sport to the public eye but somewhere within this structure are things that continue to tempt the weak into immoral practice. There will always be greedy people in any warp of life: those that are so are sometimes incapable of changing but the weak should be given a chance.

I think it is possible Mr Armstrong has the capacity and courage to say and do what is right to help the sport amend itself. Indeed, for this to happen Mr Armstrong has to tell the world what he surely must see deep down is not only the truth but is the ultimately important, moral and just thing to do to truly help loosen the awful stigma that surrounds professional cycling. Many would say that he has had ample time to do this and I would agree. However considering the density of the quagmire Mr Armstrong has immersed himself into perhaps each relevant jogging of his memories like the unfortunate demise of Marco Pantani today will goad him eventually into full action rather than continuing, disappointingly, to avoid addressing the real issues full in the face as the original poster understandably expresses.

I believe Mr Armstrong does have the compassion to do this if that compassion is currently buried under what must be piles of ongoing practical pressures and maybe his very own self-centred ambition that unfortunately appears, so far, as an old affliction that continues to dominate his actions in the eyes of the public. I hope Mr Armstrong's ambitious streak is indeed a genuine by-product of what can happen to a gifted athlete as a result of an immorally run commercial machine. If not he should indeed step back from the public eye or at least from the cycling community. However my hunch is that, for the moment, predominantly, it is this seemingly old flaw that still thwarts the mans potential to speak out and do something truly great: something that is so, so needed to help project professional cycling into a new clean arena. However I haven't yet ruled out the possibility of seeing Mr Armstrong's status change. Forgive my perhaps naive, over optimistic nature but perhaps we shouldn't rule out the possibility of events occurring in the not too distant future that could curtail a more hopeful outcome possibly a little like the former impostor Frank Abagnale turned government consultant in the film "Catch Me If You Can"

I really hope that the original passion and drive that saved his own life when he was lying on that bed riddled with cancer was a different kind: one from a person indeed among those with "better minds and better ideas" that can eventually prevail and offer a significant boost to the recovery of a sport we all love and admire. Like many I was drawn by the Armstrong story of the cancer survivor and was increasingly disappointed as the drug stories emerged. Few of us have actually met Lance Armstrong and most of us can only surmise his personality from what we read and see on the media (myself included). Perhaps we should be a little more patient to see if he does indeed put that relentless drive to good use. I think the wait could be an important one for the sport. I hope he stops listening to his lawyers or anyone thriving off his public image even in its current notorious state!: including himself! I hope Mr Armstrong sees the real issues here because the true achievers in this life are always the ones who pursue those paths that can help steer man to a more moral and noble existence. I hope.
This thread should be stickied for sheer awesomeness
 
May 27, 2012
6,458
0
0
singer-songwriter said:
Please forgive my posting this here but I was not able to post my comments in full under the actual article today (http://www.cyclingnews.com/features/...was-the-artist) and I wanted them to be read in their entirety as I feel strongly about this subject that is important in the ongoing recouperation of our sports reputation...

IN RESPONSE TO: wfaulconer post (for some reason there was no "reply" tab on this post!)

(QUOTING wfaulconer post) ... I would have liked him to say, "It's utterly unacceptable that we had to lose a cycling talent so early and in such a tormented way. The way we lived and raced back then was deplorable and will hopefully never be repeated. It was ignorant, selfish and dishonest. For anyone to pay for all that with their life is a terrible waste. I sure hope that competing with me didn't somehow contribute to the level of doping and drug activity he did, but I'm sure that it probably did and I'll never forgive myself for that. I'm lucky. I'm humiliated and ruined, but I'm alive. He wasn't the only one to pay with his life, we let it go on much too long and trusted doctors who really shouldn't have held anyone's lives in their hands. The best thing I can do for the sport since I'm not actually willing to really tell it like it is, is to fade into the background and stay away so better minds and better ideas can prevail. We are all ghosts from the past and we should stop haunting everyone. It's practically sacrilegious to comment on it anymore, we're lucky not to be in jail for all the blood on our hands. If we'd all laid down our guns back then, we could have easily raced each other clean and fair. I wish I had been more brave looking back. It's not like I don't know what bravery is, I've stared death down before. I should have said something no matter the cost. Really I was the only one who could have made it work." ....

TO ALL POSTERS HERE... I felt compelled to join CN today after years of being a non subscribing viewer and quite impulsively after having just read this particular post by wfaulconor.

The mounting pressures within a sport I love very much both as a cyclist and an ever excited viewer of the peloton are reaching a peek or at least a poignant stage within the ongoing unravelling of the sports tarnished reputation. Todays anniversary of the great rider Marco Pantani's tragic death is indeed a stark reminder of why we need to rid professional cycling of all its foul play.

I sympathise with the original poster's comments here but I do think there is still a chance Mr Armstrong may indeed be "willing to really tell it like it is". I think it would be a mistake to banish him at this point "to fade into the background and stay away". Yes! Mr Armstrong is a key culprit in the demise of the sports reputation and he has been slow and cautious to respond but it is his very position in this situation that could be vital to help amend the harm that has occurred. I don't for a moment condone his behaviour nor have any doubts that he deserves the punishment he is now having to deal with as a result of his years of deceit, but I do think one should consider the pressure he must have to face with the force of this punishment and appreciate that it must take immense self-will to accept it, swallow it and move on- hopefully to much more moral ground. That "self-will" I can sense some readers thinking: "Armstrongs old selfish ambition" OK! we know of the mans unrelenting will: so far, for the most part, he has used it immorally but I believe everyone has a right to be given a second chance to make amends and as far as professional cycling's current predicament is concerned this might be a second chance that could well serve to go a long way to help restore the sports reputation. I think the real question here is for how long and how far does a man need to be punished before he is deemed able or disable to prove he can follow the right path?

Yes! we could all interpret his comments on Signor Pantani here as another PR exercise. I deplore any drug induced performances in sport and there is no excuse whatsoever for the drug taking Mr Armstrong or any other cyclist has done including the notion: "if everyone else is doing it why should I believe that my doing it is cheating?" We can all interpret what he says here one way or another but between the lines I think there may be a hint of the mans compassion. Professional cycling is no different from football or any other financially driven sport in that the athletes rely on its reputation to earn a living. The hub of the commercial machine that provides that living is in question now: all the drugs and the riders that become tempted to take them are a by-product of the very way that machine entices the foul play to take place: overpassing moral values and replacing them with self-centred desires and greed: a tragic brainwashing of a noble, competitive spirit. I am not suggesting for a moment that the flaw in the machine is an excuse for those riders who have decided to cheat: they know full well it is wrong and should have made more effort to muster their individual strength to resist. I am not here to put that machine to rights nor argue about the amount footballers or any other professional sports people get payed; but I am here saying that whatever it is within the commercial machine that is causing this brainwashing it needs to be kicked into touch: for good. That machine by the way continues to wreak havoc after the culprits have been caught within it. One could argue that the publics current impatience with Mr Armstrongs failure so far to do something truly positive to help the situation is also a result of the same machine that spits out one of its victims damning him from ever doing something right for a change. We all pay to watch these guys spinning round the globe and without our enthusiasm for the sport it wouldn't exist as a public entertainment. Again I make no excuse for the deceitful but I question the very foundations of the current system that promotes cycling. It is a complex web of connections to bring the sport to the public eye but somewhere within this structure are things that continue to tempt the weak into immoral practice. There will always be greedy people in any warp of life: those that are so are sometimes incapable of changing but the weak should be given a chance.

I think it is possible Mr Armstrong has the capacity and courage to say and do what is right to help the sport amend itself. Indeed, for this to happen Mr Armstrong has to tell the world what he surely must see deep down is not only the truth but is the ultimately important, moral and just thing to do to truly help loosen the awful stigma that surrounds professional cycling. Many would say that he has had ample time to do this and I would agree. However considering the density of the quagmire Mr Armstrong has immersed himself into perhaps each relevant jogging of his memories like the unfortunate demise of Marco Pantani today will goad him eventually into full action rather than continuing, disappointingly, to avoid addressing the real issues full in the face as the original poster understandably expresses.

I believe Mr Armstrong does have the compassion to do this if that compassion is currently buried under what must be piles of ongoing practical pressures and maybe his very own self-centred ambition that unfortunately appears, so far, as an old affliction that continues to dominate his actions in the eyes of the public. I hope Mr Armstrong's ambitious streak is indeed a genuine by-product of what can happen to a gifted athlete as a result of an immorally run commercial machine. If not he should indeed step back from the public eye or at least from the cycling community. However my hunch is that, for the moment, predominantly, it is this seemingly old flaw that still thwarts the mans potential to speak out and do something truly great: something that is so, so needed to help project professional cycling into a new clean arena. However I haven't yet ruled out the possibility of seeing Mr Armstrong's status change. Forgive my perhaps naive, over optimistic nature but perhaps we shouldn't rule out the possibility of events occurring in the not too distant future that could curtail a more hopeful outcome possibly a little like the former impostor Frank Abagnale turned government consultant in the film "Catch Me If You Can"

I really hope that the original passion and drive that saved his own life when he was lying on that bed riddled with cancer was a different kind: one from a person indeed among those with "better minds and better ideas" that can eventually prevail and offer a significant boost to the recovery of a sport we all love and admire. Like many I was drawn by the Armstrong story of the cancer survivor and was increasingly disappointed as the drug stories emerged. Few of us have actually met Lance Armstrong and most of us can only surmise his personality from what we read and see on the media (myself included). Perhaps we should be a little more patient to see if he does indeed put that relentless drive to good use. I think the wait could be an important one for the sport. I hope he stops listening to his lawyers or anyone thriving off his public image even in its current notorious state!: including himself! I hope Mr Armstrong sees the real issues here because the true achievers in this life are always the ones who pursue those paths that can help steer man to a more moral and noble existence. I hope.


I couldn't quote fatclimber because it was too many characters.
 
Jul 15, 2012
226
1
0
singer-songwriter said:
Please forgive my posting this here but I was not able to post my comments in full under the actual article today (http://www.cyclingnews.com/features/...was-the-artist) and I wanted them to be read in their entirety as I feel strongly about this subject that is important in the ongoing recouperation of our sports reputation...

IN RESPONSE TO: wfaulconer post (for some reason there was no "reply" tab on this post!)

(QUOTING wfaulconer post) ... I would have liked him to say, "It's utterly unacceptable that we had to lose a cycling talent so early and in such a tormented way. The way we lived and raced back then was deplorable and will hopefully never be repeated. It was ignorant, selfish and dishonest. For anyone to pay for all that with their life is a terrible waste. I sure hope that competing with me didn't somehow contribute to the level of doping and drug activity he did, but I'm sure that it probably did and I'll never forgive myself for that. I'm lucky. I'm humiliated and ruined, but I'm alive. He wasn't the only one to pay with his life, we let it go on much too long and trusted doctors who really shouldn't have held anyone's lives in their hands. The best thing I can do for the sport since I'm not actually willing to really tell it like it is, is to fade into the background and stay away so better minds and better ideas can prevail. We are all ghosts from the past and we should stop haunting everyone. It's practically sacrilegious to comment on it anymore, we're lucky not to be in jail for all the blood on our hands. If we'd all laid down our guns back then, we could have easily raced each other clean and fair. I wish I had been more brave looking back. It's not like I don't know what bravery is, I've stared death down before. I should have said something no matter the cost. Really I was the only one who could have made it work." ....

TO ALL POSTERS HERE... I felt compelled to join CN today after years of being a non subscribing viewer and quite impulsively after having just read this particular post by wfaulconor.

The mounting pressures within a sport I love very much both as a cyclist and an ever excited viewer of the peloton are reaching a peek or at least a poignant stage within the ongoing unravelling of the sports tarnished reputation. Todays anniversary of the great rider Marco Pantani's tragic death is indeed a stark reminder of why we need to rid professional cycling of all its foul play.

I sympathise with the original poster's comments here but I do think there is still a chance Mr Armstrong may indeed be "willing to really tell it like it is". I think it would be a mistake to banish him at this point "to fade into the background and stay away". Yes! Mr Armstrong is a key culprit in the demise of the sports reputation and he has been slow and cautious to respond but it is his very position in this situation that could be vital to help amend the harm that has occurred. I don't for a moment condone his behaviour nor have any doubts that he deserves the punishment he is now having to deal with as a result of his years of deceit, but I do think one should consider the pressure he must have to face with the force of this punishment and appreciate that it must take immense self-will to accept it, swallow it and move on- hopefully to much more moral ground. That "self-will" I can sense some readers thinking: "Armstrongs old selfish ambition" OK! we know of the mans unrelenting will: so far, for the most part, he has used it immorally but I believe everyone has a right to be given a second chance to make amends and as far as professional cycling's current predicament is concerned this might be a second chance that could well serve to go a long way to help restore the sports reputation. I think the real question here is for how long and how far does a man need to be punished before he is deemed able or disable to prove he can follow the right path?

Yes! we could all interpret his comments on Signor Pantani here as another PR exercise. I deplore any drug induced performances in sport and there is no excuse whatsoever for the drug taking Mr Armstrong or any other cyclist has done including the notion: "if everyone else is doing it why should I believe that my doing it is cheating?" We can all interpret what he says here one way or another but between the lines I think there may be a hint of the mans compassion. Professional cycling is no different from football or any other financially driven sport in that the athletes rely on its reputation to earn a living. The hub of the commercial machine that provides that living is in question now: all the drugs and the riders that become tempted to take them are a by-product of the very way that machine entices the foul play to take place: overpassing moral values and replacing them with self-centred desires and greed: a tragic brainwashing of a noble, competitive spirit. I am not suggesting for a moment that the flaw in the machine is an excuse for those riders who have decided to cheat: they know full well it is wrong and should have made more effort to muster their individual strength to resist. I am not here to put that machine to rights nor argue about the amount footballers or any other professional sports people get payed; but I am here saying that whatever it is within the commercial machine that is causing this brainwashing it needs to be kicked into touch: for good. That machine by the way continues to wreak havoc after the culprits have been caught within it. One could argue that the publics current impatience with Mr Armstrongs failure so far to do something truly positive to help the situation is also a result of the same machine that spits out one of its victims damning him from ever doing something right for a change. We all pay to watch these guys spinning round the globe and without our enthusiasm for the sport it wouldn't exist as a public entertainment. Again I make no excuse for the deceitful but I question the very foundations of the current system that promotes cycling. It is a complex web of connections to bring the sport to the public eye but somewhere within this structure are things that continue to tempt the weak into immoral practice. There will always be greedy people in any warp of life: those that are so are sometimes incapable of changing but the weak should be given a chance.

I think it is possible Mr Armstrong has the capacity and courage to say and do what is right to help the sport amend itself. Indeed, for this to happen Mr Armstrong has to tell the world what he surely must see deep down is not only the truth but is the ultimately important, moral and just thing to do to truly help loosen the awful stigma that surrounds professional cycling. Many would say that he has had ample time to do this and I would agree. However considering the density of the quagmire Mr Armstrong has immersed himself into perhaps each relevant jogging of his memories like the unfortunate demise of Marco Pantani today will goad him eventually into full action rather than continuing, disappointingly, to avoid addressing the real issues full in the face as the original poster understandably expresses.

I believe Mr Armstrong does have the compassion to do this if that compassion is currently buried under what must be piles of ongoing practical pressures and maybe his very own self-centred ambition that unfortunately appears, so far, as an old affliction that continues to dominate his actions in the eyes of the public. I hope Mr Armstrong's ambitious streak is indeed a genuine by-product of what can happen to a gifted athlete as a result of an immorally run commercial machine. If not he should indeed step back from the public eye or at least from the cycling community. However my hunch is that, for the moment, predominantly, it is this seemingly old flaw that still thwarts the mans potential to speak out and do something truly great: something that is so, so needed to help project professional cycling into a new clean arena. However I haven't yet ruled out the possibility of seeing Mr Armstrong's status change. Forgive my perhaps naive, over optimistic nature but perhaps we shouldn't rule out the possibility of events occurring in the not too distant future that could curtail a more hopeful outcome possibly a little like the former impostor Frank Abagnale turned government consultant in the film "Catch Me If You Can"

I really hope that the original passion and drive that saved his own life when he was lying on that bed riddled with cancer was a different kind: one from a person indeed among those with "better minds and better ideas" that can eventually prevail and offer a significant boost to the recovery of a sport we all love and admire. Like many I was drawn by the Armstrong story of the cancer survivor and was increasingly disappointed as the drug stories emerged. Few of us have actually met Lance Armstrong and most of us can only surmise his personality from what we read and see on the media (myself included). Perhaps we should be a little more patient to see if he does indeed put that relentless drive to good use. I think the wait could be an important one for the sport. I hope he stops listening to his lawyers or anyone thriving off his public image even in its current notorious state!: including himself! I hope Mr Armstrong sees the real issues here because the true achievers in this life are always the ones who pursue those paths that can help steer man to a more moral and noble existence. I hope.
I couldn't find my reading glasses, solved it this way.
Wish I hadn't.
 
mewmewmew13 said:
Lance is that you?
:confused:
LOL.

The LA article about Pantani was touching in that it builds up the image of Marco. I appreciate that part. The part I'm not so convinced of is the motive of the author.

Trust is one of those things easily lost, difficult to regain. But not impossible to regain. In the past year or so there have been some nice words by LA, but until I see years (or a lot) of actions, not just words, I won't trust him. His world is crumbling all around him, and any sociopath would say anything to stop the bleeding. Show me actions. Then I might believe.
 
May 27, 2012
6,458
0
0
singer-songwriter said:
Please forgive my posting this here but I was not able to post my comments in full under the actual article today (http://www.cyclingnews.com/features/...was-the-artist) and I wanted them to be read in their entirety as I feel strongly about this subject that is important in the ongoing recouperation of our sports reputation...

IN RESPONSE TO: wfaulconer post (for some reason there was no "reply" tab on this post!)

(QUOTING wfaulconer post) ... I would have liked him to say, "It's utterly unacceptable that we had to lose a cycling talent so early and in such a tormented way. The way we lived and raced back then was deplorable and will hopefully never be repeated. It was ignorant, selfish and dishonest. For anyone to pay for all that with their life is a terrible waste. I sure hope that competing with me didn't somehow contribute to the level of doping and drug activity he did, but I'm sure that it probably did and I'll never forgive myself for that. I'm lucky. I'm humiliated and ruined, but I'm alive. He wasn't the only one to pay with his life, we let it go on much too long and trusted doctors who really shouldn't have held anyone's lives in their hands. The best thing I can do for the sport since I'm not actually willing to really tell it like it is, is to fade into the background and stay away so better minds and better ideas can prevail. We are all ghosts from the past and we should stop haunting everyone. It's practically sacrilegious to comment on it anymore, we're lucky not to be in jail for all the blood on our hands. If we'd all laid down our guns back then, we could have easily raced each other clean and fair. I wish I had been more brave looking back. It's not like I don't know what bravery is, I've stared death down before. I should have said something no matter the cost. Really I was the only one who could have made it work." ....

TO ALL POSTERS HERE... I felt compelled to join CN today after years of being a non subscribing viewer and quite impulsively after having just read this particular post by wfaulconor.

The mounting pressures within a sport I love very much both as a cyclist and an ever excited viewer of the peloton are reaching a peek or at least a poignant stage within the ongoing unravelling of the sports tarnished reputation. Todays anniversary of the great rider Marco Pantani's tragic death is indeed a stark reminder of why we need to rid professional cycling of all its foul play.

I sympathise with the original poster's comments here but I do think there is still a chance Mr Armstrong may indeed be "willing to really tell it like it is". I think it would be a mistake to banish him at this point "to fade into the background and stay away". Yes! Mr Armstrong is a key culprit in the demise of the sports reputation and he has been slow and cautious to respond but it is his very position in this situation that could be vital to help amend the harm that has occurred. I don't for a moment condone his behaviour nor have any doubts that he deserves the punishment he is now having to deal with as a result of his years of deceit, but I do think one should consider the pressure he must have to face with the force of this punishment and appreciate that it must take immense self-will to accept it, swallow it and move on- hopefully to much more moral ground. That "self-will" I can sense some readers thinking: "Armstrongs old selfish ambition" OK! we know of the mans unrelenting will: so far, for the most part, he has used it immorally but I believe everyone has a right to be given a second chance to make amends and as far as professional cycling's current predicament is concerned this might be a second chance that could well serve to go a long way to help restore the sports reputation. I think the real question here is for how long and how far does a man need to be punished before he is deemed able or disable to prove he can follow the right path?

Yes! we could all interpret his comments on Signor Pantani here as another PR exercise. I deplore any drug induced performances in sport and there is no excuse whatsoever for the drug taking Mr Armstrong or any other cyclist has done including the notion: "if everyone else is doing it why should I believe that my doing it is cheating?" We can all interpret what he says here one way or another but between the lines I think there may be a hint of the mans compassion. Professional cycling is no different from football or any other financially driven sport in that the athletes rely on its reputation to earn a living. The hub of the commercial machine that provides that living is in question now: all the drugs and the riders that become tempted to take them are a by-product of the very way that machine entices the foul play to take place: overpassing moral values and replacing them with self-centred desires and greed: a tragic brainwashing of a noble, competitive spirit. I am not suggesting for a moment that the flaw in the machine is an excuse for those riders who have decided to cheat: they know full well it is wrong and should have made more effort to muster their individual strength to resist. I am not here to put that machine to rights nor argue about the amount footballers or any other professional sports people get payed; but I am here saying that whatever it is within the commercial machine that is causing this brainwashing it needs to be kicked into touch: for good. That machine by the way continues to wreak havoc after the culprits have been caught within it. One could argue that the publics current impatience with Mr Armstrongs failure so far to do something truly positive to help the situation is also a result of the same machine that spits out one of its victims damning him from ever doing something right for a change. We all pay to watch these guys spinning round the globe and without our enthusiasm for the sport it wouldn't exist as a public entertainment. Again I make no excuse for the deceitful but I question the very foundations of the current system that promotes cycling. It is a complex web of connections to bring the sport to the public eye but somewhere within this structure are things that continue to tempt the weak into immoral practice. There will always be greedy people in any warp of life: those that are so are sometimes incapable of changing but the weak should be given a chance.

I think it is possible Mr Armstrong has the capacity and courage to say and do what is right to help the sport amend itself. Indeed, for this to happen Mr Armstrong has to tell the world what he surely must see deep down is not only the truth but is the ultimately important, moral and just thing to do to truly help loosen the awful stigma that surrounds professional cycling. Many would say that he has had ample time to do this and I would agree. However considering the density of the quagmire Mr Armstrong has immersed himself into perhaps each relevant jogging of his memories like the unfortunate demise of Marco Pantani today will goad him eventually into full action rather than continuing, disappointingly, to avoid addressing the real issues full in the face as the original poster understandably expresses.

I believe Mr Armstrong does have the compassion to do this if that compassion is currently buried under what must be piles of ongoing practical pressures and maybe his very own self-centred ambition that unfortunately appears, so far, as an old affliction that continues to dominate his actions in the eyes of the public. I hope Mr Armstrong's ambitious streak is indeed a genuine by-product of what can happen to a gifted athlete as a result of an immorally run commercial machine. If not he should indeed step back from the public eye or at least from the cycling community. However my hunch is that, for the moment, predominantly, it is this seemingly old flaw that still thwarts the mans potential to speak out and do something truly great: something that is so, so needed to help project professional cycling into a new clean arena. However I haven't yet ruled out the possibility of seeing Mr Armstrong's status change. Forgive my perhaps naive, over optimistic nature but perhaps we shouldn't rule out the possibility of events occurring in the not too distant future that could curtail a more hopeful outcome possibly a little like the former impostor Frank Abagnale turned government consultant in the film "Catch Me If You Can"

I really hope that the original passion and drive that saved his own life when he was lying on that bed riddled with cancer was a different kind: one from a person indeed among those with "better minds and better ideas" that can eventually prevail and offer a significant boost to the recovery of a sport we all love and admire. Like many I was drawn by the Armstrong story of the cancer survivor and was increasingly disappointed as the drug stories emerged. Few of us have actually met Lance Armstrong and most of us can only surmise his personality from what we read and see on the media (myself included). Perhaps we should be a little more patient to see if he does indeed put that relentless drive to good use. I think the wait could be an important one for the sport. I hope he stops listening to his lawyers or anyone thriving off his public image even in its current notorious state!: including himself! I hope Mr Armstrong sees the real issues here because the true achievers in this life are always the ones who pursue those paths that can help steer man to a more moral and noble existence. I hope.
This is the single greatest thread in the history of this forum.
 
singer-songwriter said:
Please forgive my posting this here but I was not able to post my comments in full under the actual article today (http://www.cyclingnews.com/features/...was-the-artist) and I wanted them to be read in their entirety as I feel strongly about this subject that is important in the ongoing recouperation of our sports reputation...

IN RESPONSE TO: wfaulconer post (for some reason there was no "reply" tab on this post!)

(QUOTING wfaulconer post) ... I would have liked him to say, "It's utterly unacceptable that we had to lose a cycling talent so early and in such a tormented way. The way we lived and raced back then was deplorable and will hopefully never be repeated. It was ignorant, selfish and dishonest. For anyone to pay for all that with their life is a terrible waste. I sure hope that competing with me didn't somehow contribute to the level of doping and drug activity he did, but I'm sure that it probably did and I'll never forgive myself for that. I'm lucky. I'm humiliated and ruined, but I'm alive. He wasn't the only one to pay with his life, we let it go on much too long and trusted doctors who really shouldn't have held anyone's lives in their hands. The best thing I can do for the sport since I'm not actually willing to really tell it like it is, is to fade into the background and stay away so better minds and better ideas can prevail. We are all ghosts from the past and we should stop haunting everyone. It's practically sacrilegious to comment on it anymore, we're lucky not to be in jail for all the blood on our hands. If we'd all laid down our guns back then, we could have easily raced each other clean and fair. I wish I had been more brave looking back. It's not like I don't know what bravery is, I've stared death down before. I should have said something no matter the cost. Really I was the only one who could have made it work." ....

TO ALL POSTERS HERE... I felt compelled to join CN today after years of being a non subscribing viewer and quite impulsively after having just read this particular post by wfaulconor.

The mounting pressures within a sport I love very much both as a cyclist and an ever excited viewer of the peloton are reaching a peek or at least a poignant stage within the ongoing unravelling of the sports tarnished reputation. Todays anniversary of the great rider Marco Pantani's tragic death is indeed a stark reminder of why we need to rid professional cycling of all its foul play.

I sympathise with the original poster's comments here but I do think there is still a chance Mr Armstrong may indeed be "willing to really tell it like it is". I think it would be a mistake to banish him at this point "to fade into the background and stay away". Yes! Mr Armstrong is a key culprit in the demise of the sports reputation and he has been slow and cautious to respond but it is his very position in this situation that could be vital to help amend the harm that has occurred. I don't for a moment condone his behaviour nor have any doubts that he deserves the punishment he is now having to deal with as a result of his years of deceit, but I do think one should consider the pressure he must have to face with the force of this punishment and appreciate that it must take immense self-will to accept it, swallow it and move on- hopefully to much more moral ground. That "self-will" I can sense some readers thinking: "Armstrongs old selfish ambition" OK! we know of the mans unrelenting will: so far, for the most part, he has used it immorally but I believe everyone has a right to be given a second chance to make amends and as far as professional cycling's current predicament is concerned this might be a second chance that could well serve to go a long way to help restore the sports reputation. I think the real question here is for how long and how far does a man need to be punished before he is deemed able or disable to prove he can follow the right path?

Yes! we could all interpret his comments on Signor Pantani here as another PR exercise. I deplore any drug induced performances in sport and there is no excuse whatsoever for the drug taking Mr Armstrong or any other cyclist has done including the notion: "if everyone else is doing it why should I believe that my doing it is cheating?" We can all interpret what he says here one way or another but between the lines I think there may be a hint of the mans compassion. Professional cycling is no different from football or any other financially driven sport in that the athletes rely on its reputation to earn a living. The hub of the commercial machine that provides that living is in question now: all the drugs and the riders that become tempted to take them are a by-product of the very way that machine entices the foul play to take place: overpassing moral values and replacing them with self-centred desires and greed: a tragic brainwashing of a noble, competitive spirit. I am not suggesting for a moment that the flaw in the machine is an excuse for those riders who have decided to cheat: they know full well it is wrong and should have made more effort to muster their individual strength to resist. I am not here to put that machine to rights nor argue about the amount footballers or any other professional sports people get payed; but I am here saying that whatever it is within the commercial machine that is causing this brainwashing it needs to be kicked into touch: for good. That machine by the way continues to wreak havoc after the culprits have been caught within it. One could argue that the publics current impatience with Mr Armstrongs failure so far to do something truly positive to help the situation is also a result of the same machine that spits out one of its victims damning him from ever doing something right for a change. We all pay to watch these guys spinning round the globe and without our enthusiasm for the sport it wouldn't exist as a public entertainment. Again I make no excuse for the deceitful but I question the very foundations of the current system that promotes cycling. It is a complex web of connections to bring the sport to the public eye but somewhere within this structure are things that continue to tempt the weak into immoral practice. There will always be greedy people in any warp of life: those that are so are sometimes incapable of changing but the weak should be given a chance.

I think it is possible Mr Armstrong has the capacity and courage to say and do what is right to help the sport amend itself. Indeed, for this to happen Mr Armstrong has to tell the world what he surely must see deep down is not only the truth but is the ultimately important, moral and just thing to do to truly help loosen the awful stigma that surrounds professional cycling. Many would say that he has had ample time to do this and I would agree. However considering the density of the quagmire Mr Armstrong has immersed himself into perhaps each relevant jogging of his memories like the unfortunate demise of Marco Pantani today will goad him eventually into full action rather than continuing, disappointingly, to avoid addressing the real issues full in the face as the original poster understandably expresses.

I believe Mr Armstrong does have the compassion to do this if that compassion is currently buried under what must be piles of ongoing practical pressures and maybe his very own self-centred ambition that unfortunately appears, so far, as an old affliction that continues to dominate his actions in the eyes of the public. I hope Mr Armstrong's ambitious streak is indeed a genuine by-product of what can happen to a gifted athlete as a result of an immorally run commercial machine. If not he should indeed step back from the public eye or at least from the cycling community. However my hunch is that, for the moment, predominantly, it is this seemingly old flaw that still thwarts the mans potential to speak out and do something truly great: something that is so, so needed to help project professional cycling into a new clean arena. However I haven't yet ruled out the possibility of seeing Mr Armstrong's status change. Forgive my perhaps naive, over optimistic nature but perhaps we shouldn't rule out the possibility of events occurring in the not too distant future that could curtail a more hopeful outcome possibly a little like the former impostor Frank Abagnale turned government consultant in the film "Catch Me If You Can"

I really hope that the original passion and drive that saved his own life when he was lying on that bed riddled with cancer was a different kind: one from a person indeed among those with "better minds and better ideas" that can eventually prevail and offer a significant boost to the recovery of a sport we all love and admire. Like many I was drawn by the Armstrong story of the cancer survivor and was increasingly disappointed as the drug stories emerged. Few of us have actually met Lance Armstrong and most of us can only surmise his personality from what we read and see on the media (myself included). Perhaps we should be a little more patient to see if he does indeed put that relentless drive to good use. I think the wait could be an important one for the sport. I hope he stops listening to his lawyers or anyone thriving off his public image even in its current notorious state!: including himself! I hope Mr Armstrong sees the real issues here because the true achievers in this life are always the ones who pursue those paths that can help steer man to a more moral and noble existence. I hope.
I do not agree with this being the best thread ever but am really missing the "Contador's Head" thread atm and also kudos definitely go to "This Forum Blows"
 
singer-songwriter said:
Please forgive my posting this here but I was not able to post my comments in full under the actual article today (http://www.cyclingnews.com/features/...was-the-artist) and I wanted them to be read in their entirety as I feel strongly about this subject that is important in the ongoing recouperation of our sports reputation...

IN RESPONSE TO: wfaulconer post (for some reason there was no "reply" tab on this post!)

(QUOTING wfaulconer post) ... I would have liked him to say, "It's utterly unacceptable that we had to lose a cycling talent so early and in such a tormented way. The way we lived and raced back then was deplorable and will hopefully never be repeated. It was ignorant, selfish and dishonest. For anyone to pay for all that with their life is a terrible waste. I sure hope that competing with me didn't somehow contribute to the level of doping and drug activity he did, but I'm sure that it probably did and I'll never forgive myself for that. I'm lucky. I'm humiliated and ruined, but I'm alive. He wasn't the only one to pay with his life, we let it go on much too long and trusted doctors who really shouldn't have held anyone's lives in their hands. The best thing I can do for the sport since I'm not actually willing to really tell it like it is, is to fade into the background and stay away so better minds and better ideas can prevail. We are all ghosts from the past and we should stop haunting everyone. It's practically sacrilegious to comment on it anymore, we're lucky not to be in jail for all the blood on our hands. If we'd all laid down our guns back then, we could have easily raced each other clean and fair. I wish I had been more brave looking back. It's not like I don't know what bravery is, I've stared death down before. I should have said something no matter the cost. Really I was the only one who could have made it work." ....

TO ALL POSTERS HERE... I felt compelled to join CN today after years of being a non subscribing viewer and quite impulsively after having just read this particular post by wfaulconor.

The mounting pressures within a sport I love very much both as a cyclist and an ever excited viewer of the peloton are reaching a peek or at least a poignant stage within the ongoing unravelling of the sports tarnished reputation. Todays anniversary of the great rider Marco Pantani's tragic death is indeed a stark reminder of why we need to rid professional cycling of all its foul play.

I sympathise with the original poster's comments here but I do think there is still a chance Mr Armstrong may indeed be "willing to really tell it like it is". I think it would be a mistake to banish him at this point "to fade into the background and stay away". Yes! Mr Armstrong is a key culprit in the demise of the sports reputation and he has been slow and cautious to respond but it is his very position in this situation that could be vital to help amend the harm that has occurred. I don't for a moment condone his behaviour nor have any doubts that he deserves the punishment he is now having to deal with as a result of his years of deceit, but I do think one should consider the pressure he must have to face with the force of this punishment and appreciate that it must take immense self-will to accept it, swallow it and move on- hopefully to much more moral ground. That "self-will" I can sense some readers thinking: "Armstrongs old selfish ambition" OK! we know of the mans unrelenting will: so far, for the most part, he has used it immorally but I believe everyone has a right to be given a second chance to make amends and as far as professional cycling's current predicament is concerned this might be a second chance that could well serve to go a long way to help restore the sports reputation. I think the real question here is for how long and how far does a man need to be punished before he is deemed able or disable to prove he can follow the right path?

Yes! we could all interpret his comments on Signor Pantani here as another PR exercise. I deplore any drug induced performances in sport and there is no excuse whatsoever for the drug taking Mr Armstrong or any other cyclist has done including the notion: "if everyone else is doing it why should I believe that my doing it is cheating?" We can all interpret what he says here one way or another but between the lines I think there may be a hint of the mans compassion. Professional cycling is no different from football or any other financially driven sport in that the athletes rely on its reputation to earn a living. The hub of the commercial machine that provides that living is in question now: all the drugs and the riders that become tempted to take them are a by-product of the very way that machine entices the foul play to take place: overpassing moral values and replacing them with self-centred desires and greed: a tragic brainwashing of a noble, competitive spirit. I am not suggesting for a moment that the flaw in the machine is an excuse for those riders who have decided to cheat: they know full well it is wrong and should have made more effort to muster their individual strength to resist. I am not here to put that machine to rights nor argue about the amount footballers or any other professional sports people get payed; but I am here saying that whatever it is within the commercial machine that is causing this brainwashing it needs to be kicked into touch: for good. That machine by the way continues to wreak havoc after the culprits have been caught within it. One could argue that the publics current impatience with Mr Armstrongs failure so far to do something truly positive to help the situation is also a result of the same machine that spits out one of its victims damning him from ever doing something right for a change. We all pay to watch these guys spinning round the globe and without our enthusiasm for the sport it wouldn't exist as a public entertainment. Again I make no excuse for the deceitful but I question the very foundations of the current system that promotes cycling. It is a complex web of connections to bring the sport to the public eye but somewhere within this structure are things that continue to tempt the weak into immoral practice. There will always be greedy people in any warp of life: those that are so are sometimes incapable of changing but the weak should be given a chance.

I think it is possible Mr Armstrong has the capacity and courage to say and do what is right to help the sport amend itself. Indeed, for this to happen Mr Armstrong has to tell the world what he surely must see deep down is not only the truth but is the ultimately important, moral and just thing to do to truly help loosen the awful stigma that surrounds professional cycling. Many would say that he has had ample time to do this and I would agree. However considering the density of the quagmire Mr Armstrong has immersed himself into perhaps each relevant jogging of his memories like the unfortunate demise of Marco Pantani today will goad him eventually into full action rather than continuing, disappointingly, to avoid addressing the real issues full in the face as the original poster understandably expresses.

I believe Mr Armstrong does have the compassion to do this if that compassion is currently buried under what must be piles of ongoing practical pressures and maybe his very own self-centred ambition that unfortunately appears, so far, as an old affliction that continues to dominate his actions in the eyes of the public. I hope Mr Armstrong's ambitious streak is indeed a genuine by-product of what can happen to a gifted athlete as a result of an immorally run commercial machine. If not he should indeed step back from the public eye or at least from the cycling community. However my hunch is that, for the moment, predominantly, it is this seemingly old flaw that still thwarts the mans potential to speak out and do something truly great: something that is so, so needed to help project professional cycling into a new clean arena. However I haven't yet ruled out the possibility of seeing Mr Armstrong's status change. Forgive my perhaps naive, over optimistic nature but perhaps we shouldn't rule out the possibility of events occurring in the not too distant future that could curtail a more hopeful outcome possibly a little like the former impostor Frank Abagnale turned government consultant in the film "Catch Me If You Can"

I really hope that the original passion and drive that saved his own life when he was lying on that bed riddled with cancer was a different kind: one from a person indeed among those with "better minds and better ideas" that can eventually prevail and offer a significant boost to the recovery of a sport we all love and admire. Like many I was drawn by the Armstrong story of the cancer survivor and was increasingly disappointed as the drug stories emerged. Few of us have actually met Lance Armstrong and most of us can only surmise his personality from what we read and see on the media (myself included). Perhaps we should be a little more patient to see if he does indeed put that relentless drive to good use. I think the wait could be an important one for the sport. I hope he stops listening to his lawyers or anyone thriving off his public image even in its current notorious state!: including himself! I hope Mr Armstrong sees the real issues here because the true achievers in this life are always the ones who pursue those paths that can help steer man to a more moral and noble existence. I hope.
ChewbaccaD said:
This is the single greatest thread in the history of this forum.
I still rate final TT of Tour de Suisse 2011 highly, it is still my #1 probably
 
Dec 7, 2010
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ChewbaccaD said:
This is the single greatest thread in the history of this forum.
Agreed. And with that it mind, it's only fair that we consider our beloved Dutch brethren.

singer-songwriter said:
Vergeef mijn posting dit hier, maar ik was niet in staat om mijn commentaar te posten volledig onder de feitelijke artikel vandaag (http://www.cyclingnews . com / features / ...was - de - kunstenaar)en ik wilde dat ze worden gelezen in hun geheel als ik sterk het gevoel over dit onderwerp dat belangrijk is in de lopende recouperation van onze sport reputatie...

Reactie op: wfaulconer post ( om wat voor reden was er geen " antwoord " tab op dit bericht! )

om alle POSTERS HIER ... Ik voelde me gedwongen om CN treden vandaag na jaren van een niet- abonnement kijker en heel impulsief na lees net dit bericht door wfaulconor .

De toenemende druk binnen een sport ik hou heel veel , zowel als een fietser en een steeds enthousiast toeschouwer van het peloton zijn het bereiken van een blik of op zijn minst een aangrijpende fase in de verdere ontrafeling van de sport aangetast reputatie. Todays verjaardag van de tragische dood van de grote renner Marco Pantani is inderdaad een grimmige herinnering van waarom we moeten de professionele wielersport van al haar vals spel ontdoen .

Ik voel met de originele homepage reacties hier, maar ik denk dat er nog een kans is de heer Armstrong mag dan wel " bereid om echt te vertellen waar het op staat " . Ik denk dat het een vergissing zou zijn om hem te verbannen op dit punt " om naar de achtergrond verdwijnen en blijf weg " . Yes! De heer Armstrong is een belangrijke boosdoener in de ondergang van de sportieve reputatie en hij langzaam en voorzichtig om te reageren is geweest , maar het is zijn zeer positie in deze situatie die cruciaal kan zijn om te helpen wijziging van de schade die is opgetreden . Ik heb geen moment vergoelijken zijn gedrag noch twijfelt dat hij de straf die hij nu te maken krijgt met als resultaat van zijn jarenlange bedrog verdient , maar ik denk dat men de druk die hij moet worden geconfronteerd met te overwegen de kracht van deze straf en waarderen dat het immense eigen wil moet nemen om het te accepteren , slikken en verder gaan - hopelijk veel meer morele grond. Dat "self - zal " Ik kan sommige lezers denken voelen : " Armstrongs oude geldingsdrang " OK ! we weten van de mans niet aflatende wil : tot nu toe , voor het grootste deel , hij heeft het immoreel gebruikt, maar ik denk dat iedereen het recht een tweede kans om het weer goed en voor zover de huidige hachelijke professionele wielersport 's betreft kan dit te maken worden gegeven heeft een tweede kans die goed zou kunnen dienen om een lange weg te helpen herstellen van de sportieve reputatie gaan . Ik denk dat de echte vraag hier is hoe lang en hoe ver reikt een man gestraft moet worden , voordat hij in staat wordt geacht of uitschakelen om te bewijzen dat hij de juiste weg te volgen ?

Yes! we konden al zijn opmerkingen over Signor Pantani interpreteren hier als een andere pr-stunt . Ik betreur elke drug veroorzaakte prestaties in de sport en er is geen enkel excuus voor het dopinggebruik heer Armstrong of een andere fietser heeft gedaan , waaronder het begrip : " als iedereen het doet waarom zou ik geloven dat mijn doen is vals spelen" We kunnen allemaal interpreteren wat hij zegt hier op een of andere manier, maar tussen de lijnen die ik denk dat er misschien een hint van de mans mededogen . Professionele wielersport is niet anders dan voetbal of een andere financieel gedreven sport in dat de atleten vertrouwen op zijn reputatie aan de kost te verdienen . De spil van de commerciële machine die bepaalt dat leven is in vraag is nu : alle drugs en de renners die in de verleiding om hen te worden zijn een bijproduct van de zeer wijze die machine lokt het vals spel te laten plaatsvinden : overpassing morele waarden en te vervangen door egocentrische verlangens en hebzucht : een tragische hersenspoeling van een nobele , competitieve geest . Ik wil niet suggereren voor een moment dat de fout in de machine is een excuus voor rijders die hebben besloten om vals te spelen : ze weten heel goed dat het verkeerd is en moet meer moeite om hun individuele kracht te weerstaan ​​opbrengen hebben gemaakt . Ik ben hier niet om die machine weer recht te trekken , noch twisten over de hoeveelheid voetballers of een andere professionele sporten mensen krijgen betaald , maar ik hier zeg, dat wat het ook is binnen de commerciële machine die de oorzaak is van deze hersenspoeling moet worden gekickt : voor een goede. Die machine door de manier blijft om zich te wreken nadat de daders zijn binnen het gevangen . Men zou kunnen stellen dat het publiek huidige ongeduld met de heer Armstrongs tot dusver niet gelukt om iets echt positief doen om de situatie te helpen is ook een gevolg van dezelfde machine die spuugt een van zijn slachtoffers hem vernietigend ooit iets goed doen voor een verandering . Betalen we allemaal aan deze jongens draaien rond de wereld en zonder ons enthousiasme voor de sport is het niet zou bestaan ​​als een volksvermaak te kijken. Nogmaals, ik maak geen excuus voor de bedrieglijke , maar ik vraag de fundamenten van het huidige systeem dat fietsen promoot . Het is een complex web van verbindingen met de sport aan het publieke oog te brengen, maar ergens binnen deze structuur zijn dingen die blijven de zwakke verleiden tot immorele praktijk . Er zullen altijd hebzuchtige mensen in een schering van het leven : degene die dat wel zijn, zijn soms niet in staat om te veranderen , maar de zwakke moet een kans worden gegeven .

Ik denk dat het mogelijk is de heer Armstrong heeft de capaciteit en de moed om te zeggen en te doen wat juist is om te helpen de sport zelf te wijzigen . Inderdaad , om dit te laten gebeuren heer Armstrong heeft om de wereld te vertellen wat hij moet toch diep van binnen ziet is niet alleen de waarheid, maar is het uiteindelijk belangrijk , morele en gewoon wat je moet doen om echt te helpen los te maken van de verschrikkelijke stigma dat de professionele wielersport omringt. Velen zouden zeggen dat hij ruim de tijd om dit te doen heeft gehad en ik zou eens . Maar gezien de dichtheid van het moeras heer Armstrong heeft zich ondergedompeld in misschien wel elke relevante jogging van zijn herinneringen , zoals de ongelukkige ondergang van Marco Pantani vandaag zal hem uiteindelijk goad in volle actie in plaats van door te gaan , teleurstellend , om te voorkomen dat het aanpakken van de echte problemen volledig in de gezicht als de originele poster begrijpelijk uitdrukt .

Ik geloof dat de heer Armstrong heeft de compassie om dit te doen als dat compassie momenteel begraven onder welke stapels lopende praktische druk en misschien zijn eigen egocentrische ambitie die helaas lijkt , tot nu toe, als een oude aandoening die blijft domineren moet zijn daden in de ogen van het publiek. Ik hoop ambitieuze streak heer Armstrong is inderdaad een echte bijproduct van wat er kan gebeuren om een begaafd atleet als gevolg van een immoreel lopen commerciële machine . Als niet hij inderdaad zou een stap terug uit het publieke oog of op zijn minst van de fietsen gemeenschap . Maar mijn gevoel is dat , voor het moment, voornamelijk , het is deze schijnbaar oude fout die nog steeds dwarsboomt de mans potentie om uit te spreken en iets echt geweldig doen : iets dat zo , dus moest project professionele wielersport helpen in een nieuwe schone arena . Toch heb ik nog niet uitgesloten van de mogelijkheid van het zien van statuswijziging heer Armstrong. Vergeef me mijn misschien naïef, te optimistische natuur, maar misschien moeten we niet uitsluiten dat de mogelijkheid van de gebeurtenissen die zich in de niet al te verre toekomst die een meer hoopvolle uitkomst misschien een beetje zoals de voormalige oplichter Frank Abagnale draaide regering consultant in de film zou kunnen beknotten " Catch Me If You Can "

Ik hoop echt dat de oorspronkelijke passie en drive die zijn eigen leven gered toen hij lag op dat bed doorzeefd met kanker was een ander soort : een uit een persoon inderdaad onder degenen met een " betere geesten en betere ideeën " die uiteindelijk kunnen zegevieren en aanbod een belangrijke impuls aan het herstel van een sport die we allemaal liefhebben en bewonderen. Net als veel werd ik aangetrokken door de Armstrong verhaal van de overlevende en werd steeds teleurgesteld als de drug verhalen ontstaan. Weinigen van ons hebben echt ontmoet Lance Armstrong en de meesten van ons kan alleen maar vermoeden zijn persoonlijkheid van wat we lezen en zien op de media ( waaronder ikzelf) . Misschien moeten we een beetje meer geduld hebben om te zien of hij inderdaad we deze niet aflatende drive om goed gebruik . Ik denk dat het wachten zou een belangrijk jaar voor de sport. Ik hoop dat hij stopt met het luisteren naar zijn advocaten of iemand bloeiende van zijn publieke imago , zelfs in de huidige beruchte status : waaronder hijzelf ! Ik hoop dat de heer Armstrong ziet de echte problemen hier omdat de echte presteerders in dit leven zijn altijd degenen die die paden die steer man kan helpen om een ​​meer morele en nobel bestaan ​​na te streven . Ik hoop .
As has been well documented in the past, the Dutchies, like myself, have little tolerance for overly bolded internet posts.
You're welcome. :)
 
Aug 13, 2009
12,855
0
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singer-songwriter said:
Please forgive my posting this here but I was not able to post my comments in full under the actual article today (http://www.cyclingnews.com/features/...was-the-artist) and I wanted them to be read in their entirety as I feel strongly about this subject that is important in the ongoing recouperation of our sports reputation...

IN RESPONSE TO: wfaulconer post (for some reason there was no "reply" tab on this post!)

(QUOTING wfaulconer post) ... I would have liked him to say, "It's utterly unacceptable that we had to lose a cycling talent so early and in such a tormented way. The way we lived and raced back then was deplorable and will hopefully never be repeated. It was ignorant, selfish and dishonest. For anyone to pay for all that with their life is a terrible waste. I sure hope that competing with me didn't somehow contribute to the level of doping and drug activity he did, but I'm sure that it probably did and I'll never forgive myself for that. I'm lucky. I'm humiliated and ruined, but I'm alive. He wasn't the only one to pay with his life, we let it go on much too long and trusted doctors who really shouldn't have held anyone's lives in their hands. The best thing I can do for the sport since I'm not actually willing to really tell it like it is, is to fade into the background and stay away so better minds and better ideas can prevail. We are all ghosts from the past and we should stop haunting everyone. It's practically sacrilegious to comment on it anymore, we're lucky not to be in jail for all the blood on our hands. If we'd all laid down our guns back then, we could have easily raced each other clean and fair. I wish I had been more brave looking back. It's not like I don't know what bravery is, I've stared death down before. I should have said something no matter the cost. Really I was the only one who could have made it work." ....

TO ALL POSTERS HERE... I felt compelled to join CN today after years of being a non subscribing viewer and quite impulsively after having just read this particular post by wfaulconor.

The mounting pressures within a sport I love very much both as a cyclist and an ever excited viewer of the peloton are reaching a peek or at least a poignant stage within the ongoing unravelling of the sports tarnished reputation. Todays anniversary of the great rider Marco Pantani's tragic death is indeed a stark reminder of why we need to rid professional cycling of all its foul play.

I sympathise with the original poster's comments here but I do think there is still a chance Mr Armstrong may indeed be "willing to really tell it like it is". I think it would be a mistake to banish him at this point "to fade into the background and stay away". Yes! Mr Armstrong is a key culprit in the demise of the sports reputation and he has been slow and cautious to respond but it is his very position in this situation that could be vital to help amend the harm that has occurred. I don't for a moment condone his behaviour nor have any doubts that he deserves the punishment he is now having to deal with as a result of his years of deceit, but I do think one should consider the pressure he must have to face with the force of this punishment and appreciate that it must take immense self-will to accept it, swallow it and move on- hopefully to much more moral ground. That "self-will" I can sense some readers thinking: "Armstrongs old selfish ambition" OK! we know of the mans unrelenting will: so far, for the most part, he has used it immorally but I believe everyone has a right to be given a second chance to make amends and as far as professional cycling's current predicament is concerned this might be a second chance that could well serve to go a long way to help restore the sports reputation. I think the real question here is for how long and how far does a man need to be punished before he is deemed able or disable to prove he can follow the right path?

Yes! we could all interpret his comments on Signor Pantani here as another PR exercise. I deplore any drug induced performances in sport and there is no excuse whatsoever for the drug taking Mr Armstrong or any other cyclist has done including the notion: "if everyone else is doing it why should I believe that my doing it is cheating?" We can all interpret what he says here one way or another but between the lines I think there may be a hint of the mans compassion. Professional cycling is no different from football or any other financially driven sport in that the athletes rely on its reputation to earn a living. The hub of the commercial machine that provides that living is in question now: all the drugs and the riders that become tempted to take them are a by-product of the very way that machine entices the foul play to take place: overpassing moral values and replacing them with self-centred desires and greed: a tragic brainwashing of a noble, competitive spirit. I am not suggesting for a moment that the flaw in the machine is an excuse for those riders who have decided to cheat: they know full well it is wrong and should have made more effort to muster their individual strength to resist. I am not here to put that machine to rights nor argue about the amount footballers or any other professional sports people get payed; but I am here saying that whatever it is within the commercial machine that is causing this brainwashing it needs to be kicked into touch: for good. That machine by the way continues to wreak havoc after the culprits have been caught within it. One could argue that the publics current impatience with Mr Armstrongs failure so far to do something truly positive to help the situation is also a result of the same machine that spits out one of its victims damning him from ever doing something right for a change. We all pay to watch these guys spinning round the globe and without our enthusiasm for the sport it wouldn't exist as a public entertainment. Again I make no excuse for the deceitful but I question the very foundations of the current system that promotes cycling. It is a complex web of connections to bring the sport to the public eye but somewhere within this structure are things that continue to tempt the weak into immoral practice. There will always be greedy people in any warp of life: those that are so are sometimes incapable of changing but the weak should be given a chance.

I think it is possible Mr Armstrong has the capacity and courage to say and do what is right to help the sport amend itself. Indeed, for this to happen Mr Armstrong has to tell the world what he surely must see deep down is not only the truth but is the ultimately important, moral and just thing to do to truly help loosen the awful stigma that surrounds professional cycling. Many would say that he has had ample time to do this and I would agree. However considering the density of the quagmire Mr Armstrong has immersed himself into perhaps each relevant jogging of his memories like the unfortunate demise of Marco Pantani today will goad him eventually into full action rather than continuing, disappointingly, to avoid addressing the real issues full in the face as the original poster understandably expresses.

I believe Mr Armstrong does have the compassion to do this if that compassion is currently buried under what must be piles of ongoing practical pressures and maybe his very own self-centred ambition that unfortunately appears, so far, as an old affliction that continues to dominate his actions in the eyes of the public. I hope Mr Armstrong's ambitious streak is indeed a genuine by-product of what can happen to a gifted athlete as a result of an immorally run commercial machine. If not he should indeed step back from the public eye or at least from the cycling community. However my hunch is that, for the moment, predominantly, it is this seemingly old flaw that still thwarts the mans potential to speak out and do something truly great: something that is so, so needed to help project professional cycling into a new clean arena. However I haven't yet ruled out the possibility of seeing Mr Armstrong's status change. Forgive my perhaps naive, over optimistic nature but perhaps we shouldn't rule out the possibility of events occurring in the not too distant future that could curtail a more hopeful outcome possibly a little like the former impostor Frank Abagnale turned government consultant in the film "Catch Me If You Can"

I really hope that the original passion and drive that saved his own life when he was lying on that bed riddled with cancer was a different kind: one from a person indeed among those with "better minds and better ideas" that can eventually prevail and offer a significant boost to the recovery of a sport we all love and admire. Like many I was drawn by the Armstrong story of the cancer survivor and was increasingly disappointed as the drug stories emerged. Few of us have actually met Lance Armstrong and most of us can only surmise his personality from what we read and see on the media (myself included). Perhaps we should be a little more patient to see if he does indeed put that relentless drive to good use. I think the wait could be an important one for the sport. I hope he stops listening to his lawyers or anyone thriving off his public image even in its current notorious state!: including himself! I hope Mr Armstrong sees the real issues here because the true achievers in this life are always the ones who pursue those paths that can help steer man to a more moral and noble existence. I hope.
Only thing this thread is missing is a fern and Jef Vader
 
Dec 7, 2010
5,507
0
0
Race Radio said:
Only thing this thread is missing is a fern and Jef Vader
Are you sure it wasn't a ficus?

singer-songwriter said:
Please forgive my posting this here but I was not able to post my comments in full under the actual article today (http://www.cyclingnews.com/features/...was-the-artist) and I wanted them to be read in their entirety as I feel strongly about this subject that is important in the ongoing recouperation of our sports reputation...

IN RESPONSE TO: wfaulconer post (for some reason there was no "reply" tab on this post!)

(QUOTING wfaulconer post) ... I would have liked him to say, "It's utterly unacceptable that we had to lose a cycling talent so early and in such a tormented way. The way we lived and raced back then was deplorable and will hopefully never be repeated. It was ignorant, selfish and dishonest. For anyone to pay for all that with their life is a terrible waste. I sure hope that competing with me didn't somehow contribute to the level of doping and drug activity he did, but I'm sure that it probably did and I'll never forgive myself for that. I'm lucky. I'm humiliated and ruined, but I'm alive. He wasn't the only one to pay with his life, we let it go on much too long and trusted doctors who really shouldn't have held anyone's lives in their hands. The best thing I can do for the sport since I'm not actually willing to really tell it like it is, is to fade into the background and stay away so better minds and better ideas can prevail. We are all ghosts from the past and we should stop haunting everyone. It's practically sacrilegious to comment on it anymore, we're lucky not to be in jail for all the blood on our hands. If we'd all laid down our guns back then, we could have easily raced each other clean and fair. I wish I had been more brave looking back. It's not like I don't know what bravery is, I've stared death down before. I should have said something no matter the cost. Really I was the only one who could have made it work." ....

TO ALL POSTERS HERE... I felt compelled to join CN today after years of being a non subscribing viewer and quite impulsively after having just read this particular post by wfaulconor.

The mounting pressures within a sport I love very much both as a cyclist and an ever excited viewer of the peloton are reaching a peek or at least a poignant stage within the ongoing unravelling of the sports tarnished reputation. Todays anniversary of the great rider Marco Pantani's tragic death is indeed a stark reminder of why we need to rid professional cycling of all its foul play.

I sympathise with the original poster's comments here but I do think there is still a chance Mr Armstrong may indeed be "willing to really tell it like it is". I think it would be a mistake to banish him at this point "to fade into the background and stay away". Yes! Mr Armstrong is a key culprit in the demise of the sports reputation and he has been slow and cautious to respond but it is his very position in this situation that could be vital to help amend the harm that has occurred. I don't for a moment condone his behaviour nor have any doubts that he deserves the punishment he is now having to deal with as a result of his years of deceit, but I do think one should consider the pressure he must have to face with the force of this punishment and appreciate that it must take immense self-will to accept it, swallow it and move on- hopefully to much more moral ground. That "self-will" I can sense some readers thinking: "Armstrongs old selfish ambition" OK! we know of the mans unrelenting will: so far, for the most part, he has used it immorally but I believe everyone has a right to be given a second chance to make amends and as far as professional cycling's current predicament is concerned this might be a second chance that could well serve to go a long way to help restore the sports reputation. I think the real question here is for how long and how far does a man need to be punished before he is deemed able or disable to prove he can follow the right path?

Yes! we could all interpret his comments on Signor Pantani here as another PR exercise. I deplore any drug induced performances in sport and there is no excuse whatsoever for the drug taking Mr Armstrong or any other cyclist has done including the notion: "if everyone else is doing it why should I believe that my doing it is cheating?" We can all interpret what he says here one way or another but between the lines I think there may be a hint of the mans compassion. Professional cycling is no different from football or any other financially driven sport in that the athletes rely on its reputation to earn a living. The hub of the commercial machine that provides that living is in question now: all the drugs and the riders that become tempted to take them are a by-product of the very way that machine entices the foul play to take place: overpassing moral values and replacing them with self-centred desires and greed: a tragic brainwashing of a noble, competitive spirit. I am not suggesting for a moment that the flaw in the machine is an excuse for those riders who have decided to cheat: they know full well it is wrong and should have made more effort to muster their individual strength to resist. I am not here to put that machine to rights nor argue about the amount footballers or any other professional sports people get payed; but I am here saying that whatever it is within the commercial machine that is causing this brainwashing it needs to be kicked into touch: for good. That machine by the way continues to wreak havoc after the culprits have been caught within it. One could argue that the publics current impatience with Mr Armstrongs failure so far to do something truly positive to help the situation is also a result of the same machine that spits out one of its victims damning him from ever doing something right for a change. We all pay to watch these guys spinning round the globe and without our enthusiasm for the sport it wouldn't exist as a public entertainment. Again I make no excuse for the deceitful but I question the very foundations of the current system that promotes cycling. It is a complex web of connections to bring the sport to the public eye but somewhere within this structure are things that continue to tempt the weak into immoral practice. There will always be greedy people in any warp of life: those that are so are sometimes incapable of changing but the weak should be given a chance.

I think it is possible Mr Armstrong has the capacity and courage to say and do what is right to help the sport amend itself. Indeed, for this to happen Mr Armstrong has to tell the world what he surely must see deep down is not only the truth but is the ultimately important, moral and just thing to do to truly help loosen the awful stigma that surrounds professional cycling. Many would say that he has had ample time to do this and I would agree. However considering the density of the quagmire Mr Armstrong has immersed himself into perhaps each relevant jogging of his memories like the unfortunate demise of Marco Pantani today will goad him eventually into full action rather than continuing, disappointingly, to avoid addressing the real issues full in the face as the original poster understandably expresses.

I believe Mr Armstrong does have the compassion to do this if that compassion is currently buried under what must be piles of ongoing practical pressures and maybe his very own self-centred ambition that unfortunately appears, so far, as an old affliction that continues to dominate his actions in the eyes of the public. I hope Mr Armstrong's ambitious streak is indeed a genuine by-product of what can happen to a gifted athlete as a result of an immorally run commercial machine. If not he should indeed step back from the public eye or at least from the cycling community. However my hunch is that, for the moment, predominantly, it is this seemingly old flaw that still thwarts the mans potential to speak out and do something truly great: something that is so, so needed to help project professional cycling into a new clean arena. However I haven't yet ruled out the possibility of seeing Mr Armstrong's status change. Forgive my perhaps naive, over optimistic nature but perhaps we shouldn't rule out the possibility of events occurring in the not too distant future that could curtail a more hopeful outcome possibly a little like the former impostor Frank Abagnale turned government consultant in the film "Catch Me If You Can"

I really hope that the original passion and drive that saved his own life when he was lying on that bed riddled with cancer was a different kind: one from a person indeed among those with "better minds and better ideas" that can eventually prevail and offer a significant boost to the recovery of a sport we all love and admire. Like many I was drawn by the Armstrong story of the cancer survivor and was increasingly disappointed as the drug stories emerged. Few of us have actually met Lance Armstrong and most of us can only surmise his personality from what we read and see on the media (myself included). Perhaps we should be a little more patient to see if he does indeed put that relentless drive to good use. I think the wait could be an important one for the sport. I hope he stops listening to his lawyers or anyone thriving off his public image even in its current notorious state!: including himself! I hope Mr Armstrong sees the real issues here because the true achievers in this life are always the ones who pursue those paths that can help steer man to a more moral and noble existence. I hope.
 
May 27, 2012
6,458
0
0
singer-songwriter said:
Please forgive my posting this here but I was not able to post my comments in full under the actual article today (http://www.cyclingnews.com/features/...was-the-artist) and I wanted them to be read in their entirety as I feel strongly about this subject that is important in the ongoing recouperation of our sports reputation...

IN RESPONSE TO: wfaulconer post (for some reason there was no "reply" tab on this post!)

(QUOTING wfaulconer post) ... I would have liked him to say, "It's utterly unacceptable that we had to lose a cycling talent so early and in such a tormented way. The way we lived and raced back then was deplorable and will hopefully never be repeated. It was ignorant, selfish and dishonest. For anyone to pay for all that with their life is a terrible waste. I sure hope that competing with me didn't somehow contribute to the level of doping and drug activity he did, but I'm sure that it probably did and I'll never forgive myself for that. I'm lucky. I'm humiliated and ruined, but I'm alive. He wasn't the only one to pay with his life, we let it go on much too long and trusted doctors who really shouldn't have held anyone's lives in their hands. The best thing I can do for the sport since I'm not actually willing to really tell it like it is, is to fade into the background and stay away so better minds and better ideas can prevail. We are all ghosts from the past and we should stop haunting everyone. It's practically sacrilegious to comment on it anymore, we're lucky not to be in jail for all the blood on our hands. If we'd all laid down our guns back then, we could have easily raced each other clean and fair. I wish I had been more brave looking back. It's not like I don't know what bravery is, I've stared death down before. I should have said something no matter the cost. Really I was the only one who could have made it work." ....

TO ALL POSTERS HERE... I felt compelled to join CN today after years of being a non subscribing viewer and quite impulsively after having just read this particular post by wfaulconor.

The mounting pressures within a sport I love very much both as a cyclist and an ever excited viewer of the peloton are reaching a peek or at least a poignant stage within the ongoing unravelling of the sports tarnished reputation. Todays anniversary of the great rider Marco Pantani's tragic death is indeed a stark reminder of why we need to rid professional cycling of all its foul play.

I sympathise with the original poster's comments here but I do think there is still a chance Mr Armstrong may indeed be "willing to really tell it like it is". I think it would be a mistake to banish him at this point "to fade into the background and stay away". Yes! Mr Armstrong is a key culprit in the demise of the sports reputation and he has been slow and cautious to respond but it is his very position in this situation that could be vital to help amend the harm that has occurred. I don't for a moment condone his behaviour nor have any doubts that he deserves the punishment he is now having to deal with as a result of his years of deceit, but I do think one should consider the pressure he must have to face with the force of this punishment and appreciate that it must take immense self-will to accept it, swallow it and move on- hopefully to much more moral ground. That "self-will" I can sense some readers thinking: "Armstrongs old selfish ambition" OK! we know of the mans unrelenting will: so far, for the most part, he has used it immorally but I believe everyone has a right to be given a second chance to make amends and as far as professional cycling's current predicament is concerned this might be a second chance that could well serve to go a long way to help restore the sports reputation. I think the real question here is for how long and how far does a man need to be punished before he is deemed able or disable to prove he can follow the right path?

Yes! we could all interpret his comments on Signor Pantani here as another PR exercise. I deplore any drug induced performances in sport and there is no excuse whatsoever for the drug taking Mr Armstrong or any other cyclist has done including the notion: "if everyone else is doing it why should I believe that my doing it is cheating?" We can all interpret what he says here one way or another but between the lines I think there may be a hint of the mans compassion. Professional cycling is no different from football or any other financially driven sport in that the athletes rely on its reputation to earn a living. The hub of the commercial machine that provides that living is in question now: all the drugs and the riders that become tempted to take them are a by-product of the very way that machine entices the foul play to take place: overpassing moral values and replacing them with self-centred desires and greed: a tragic brainwashing of a noble, competitive spirit. I am not suggesting for a moment that the flaw in the machine is an excuse for those riders who have decided to cheat: they know full well it is wrong and should have made more effort to muster their individual strength to resist. I am not here to put that machine to rights nor argue about the amount footballers or any other professional sports people get payed; but I am here saying that whatever it is within the commercial machine that is causing this brainwashing it needs to be kicked into touch: for good. That machine by the way continues to wreak havoc after the culprits have been caught within it. One could argue that the publics current impatience with Mr Armstrongs failure so far to do something truly positive to help the situation is also a result of the same machine that spits out one of its victims damning him from ever doing something right for a change. We all pay to watch these guys spinning round the globe and without our enthusiasm for the sport it wouldn't exist as a public entertainment. Again I make no excuse for the deceitful but I question the very foundations of the current system that promotes cycling. It is a complex web of connections to bring the sport to the public eye but somewhere within this structure are things that continue to tempt the weak into immoral practice. There will always be greedy people in any warp of life: those that are so are sometimes incapable of changing but the weak should be given a chance.

I think it is possible Mr Armstrong has the capacity and courage to say and do what is right to help the sport amend itself. Indeed, for this to happen Mr Armstrong has to tell the world what he surely must see deep down is not only the truth but is the ultimately important, moral and just thing to do to truly help loosen the awful stigma that surrounds professional cycling. Many would say that he has had ample time to do this and I would agree. However considering the density of the quagmire Mr Armstrong has immersed himself into perhaps each relevant jogging of his memories like the unfortunate demise of Marco Pantani today will goad him eventually into full action rather than continuing, disappointingly, to avoid addressing the real issues full in the face as the original poster understandably expresses.

I believe Mr Armstrong does have the compassion to do this if that compassion is currently buried under what must be piles of ongoing practical pressures and maybe his very own self-centred ambition that unfortunately appears, so far, as an old affliction that continues to dominate his actions in the eyes of the public. I hope Mr Armstrong's ambitious streak is indeed a genuine by-product of what can happen to a gifted athlete as a result of an immorally run commercial machine. If not he should indeed step back from the public eye or at least from the cycling community. However my hunch is that, for the moment, predominantly, it is this seemingly old flaw that still thwarts the mans potential to speak out and do something truly great: something that is so, so needed to help project professional cycling into a new clean arena. However I haven't yet ruled out the possibility of seeing Mr Armstrong's status change. Forgive my perhaps naive, over optimistic nature but perhaps we shouldn't rule out the possibility of events occurring in the not too distant future that could curtail a more hopeful outcome possibly a little like the former impostor Frank Abagnale turned government consultant in the film "Catch Me If You Can"

I really hope that the original passion and drive that saved his own life when he was lying on that bed riddled with cancer was a different kind: one from a person indeed among those with "better minds and better ideas" that can eventually prevail and offer a significant boost to the recovery of a sport we all love and admire. Like many I was drawn by the Armstrong story of the cancer survivor and was increasingly disappointed as the drug stories emerged. Few of us have actually met Lance Armstrong and most of us can only surmise his personality from what we read and see on the media (myself included). Perhaps we should be a little more patient to see if he does indeed put that relentless drive to good use. I think the wait could be an important one for the sport. I hope he stops listening to his lawyers or anyone thriving off his public image even in its current notorious state!: including himself! I hope Mr Armstrong sees the real issues here because the true achievers in this life are always the ones who pursue those paths that can help steer man to a more moral and noble existence. I hope.
 
May 27, 2012
6,458
0
0
singer-songwriter said:
Please forgive my posting this here but I was not able to post my comments in full under the actual article today (http://www.cyclingnews.com/features/...was-the-artist) and I wanted them to be read in their entirety as I feel strongly about this subject that is important in the ongoing recouperation of our sports reputation...

IN RESPONSE TO: wfaulconer post (for some reason there was no "reply" tab on this post!)

(QUOTING wfaulconer post) ... I would have liked him to say, "It's utterly unacceptable that we had to lose a cycling talent so early and in such a tormented way. The way we lived and raced back then was deplorable and will hopefully never be repeated. It was ignorant, selfish and dishonest. For anyone to pay for all that with their life is a terrible waste. I sure hope that competing with me didn't somehow contribute to the level of doping and drug activity he did, but I'm sure that it probably did and I'll never forgive myself for that. I'm lucky. I'm humiliated and ruined, but I'm alive. He wasn't the only one to pay with his life, we let it go on much too long and trusted doctors who really shouldn't have held anyone's lives in their hands. The best thing I can do for the sport since I'm not actually willing to really tell it like it is, is to fade into the background and stay away so better minds and better ideas can prevail. We are all ghosts from the past and we should stop haunting everyone. It's practically sacrilegious to comment on it anymore, we're lucky not to be in jail for all the blood on our hands. If we'd all laid down our guns back then, we could have easily raced each other clean and fair. I wish I had been more brave looking back. It's not like I don't know what bravery is, I've stared death down before. I should have said something no matter the cost. Really I was the only one who could have made it work." ....

TO ALL POSTERS HERE... I felt compelled to join CN today after years of being a non subscribing viewer and quite impulsively after having just read this particular post by wfaulconor.

The mounting pressures within a sport I love very much both as a cyclist and an ever excited viewer of the peloton are reaching a peek or at least a poignant stage within the ongoing unravelling of the sports tarnished reputation. Todays anniversary of the great rider Marco Pantani's tragic death is indeed a stark reminder of why we need to rid professional cycling of all its foul play.

I sympathise with the original poster's comments here but I do think there is still a chance Mr Armstrong may indeed be "willing to really tell it like it is". I think it would be a mistake to banish him at this point "to fade into the background and stay away". Yes! Mr Armstrong is a key culprit in the demise of the sports reputation and he has been slow and cautious to respond but it is his very position in this situation that could be vital to help amend the harm that has occurred. I don't for a moment condone his behaviour nor have any doubts that he deserves the punishment he is now having to deal with as a result of his years of deceit, but I do think one should consider the pressure he must have to face with the force of this punishment and appreciate that it must take immense self-will to accept it, swallow it and move on- hopefully to much more moral ground. That "self-will" I can sense some readers thinking: "Armstrongs old selfish ambition" OK! we know of the mans unrelenting will: so far, for the most part, he has used it immorally but I believe everyone has a right to be given a second chance to make amends and as far as professional cycling's current predicament is concerned this might be a second chance that could well serve to go a long way to help restore the sports reputation. I think the real question here is for how long and how far does a man need to be punished before he is deemed able or disable to prove he can follow the right path?

Yes! we could all interpret his comments on Signor Pantani here as another PR exercise. I deplore any drug induced performances in sport and there is no excuse whatsoever for the drug taking Mr Armstrong or any other cyclist has done including the notion: "if everyone else is doing it why should I believe that my doing it is cheating?" We can all interpret what he says here one way or another but between the lines I think there may be a hint of the mans compassion. Professional cycling is no different from football or any other financially driven sport in that the athletes rely on its reputation to earn a living. The hub of the commercial machine that provides that living is in question now: all the drugs and the riders that become tempted to take them are a by-product of the very way that machine entices the foul play to take place: overpassing moral values and replacing them with self-centred desires and greed: a tragic brainwashing of a noble, competitive spirit. I am not suggesting for a moment that the flaw in the machine is an excuse for those riders who have decided to cheat: they know full well it is wrong and should have made more effort to muster their individual strength to resist. I am not here to put that machine to rights nor argue about the amount footballers or any other professional sports people get payed; but I am here saying that whatever it is within the commercial machine that is causing this brainwashing it needs to be kicked into touch: for good. That machine by the way continues to wreak havoc after the culprits have been caught within it. One could argue that the publics current impatience with Mr Armstrongs failure so far to do something truly positive to help the situation is also a result of the same machine that spits out one of its victims damning him from ever doing something right for a change. We all pay to watch these guys spinning round the globe and without our enthusiasm for the sport it wouldn't exist as a public entertainment. Again I make no excuse for the deceitful but I question the very foundations of the current system that promotes cycling. It is a complex web of connections to bring the sport to the public eye but somewhere within this structure are things that continue to tempt the weak into immoral practice. There will always be greedy people in any warp of life: those that are so are sometimes incapable of changing but the weak should be given a chance.

I think it is possible Mr Armstrong has the capacity and courage to say and do what is right to help the sport amend itself. Indeed, for this to happen Mr Armstrong has to tell the world what he surely must see deep down is not only the truth but is the ultimately important, moral and just thing to do to truly help loosen the awful stigma that surrounds professional cycling. Many would say that he has had ample time to do this and I would agree. However considering the density of the quagmire Mr Armstrong has immersed himself into perhaps each relevant jogging of his memories like the unfortunate demise of Marco Pantani today will goad him eventually into full action rather than continuing, disappointingly, to avoid addressing the real issues full in the face as the original poster understandably expresses.

I believe Mr Armstrong does have the compassion to do this if that compassion is currently buried under what must be piles of ongoing practical pressures and maybe his very own self-centred ambition that unfortunately appears, so far, as an old affliction that continues to dominate his actions in the eyes of the public. I hope Mr Armstrong's ambitious streak is indeed a genuine by-product of what can happen to a gifted athlete as a result of an immorally run commercial machine. If not he should indeed step back from the public eye or at least from the cycling community. However my hunch is that, for the moment, predominantly, it is this seemingly old flaw that still thwarts the mans potential to speak out and do something truly great: something that is so, so needed to help project professional cycling into a new clean arena. However I haven't yet ruled out the possibility of seeing Mr Armstrong's status change. Forgive my perhaps naive, over optimistic nature but perhaps we shouldn't rule out the possibility of events occurring in the not too distant future that could curtail a more hopeful outcome possibly a little like the former impostor Frank Abagnale turned government consultant in the film "Catch Me If You Can"

I really hope that the original passion and drive that saved his own life when he was lying on that bed riddled with cancer was a different kind: one from a person indeed among those with "better minds and better ideas" that can eventually prevail and offer a significant boost to the recovery of a sport we all love and admire. Like many I was drawn by the Armstrong story of the cancer survivor and was increasingly disappointed as the drug stories emerged. Few of us have actually met Lance Armstrong and most of us can only surmise his personality from what we read and see on the media (myself included). Perhaps we should be a little more patient to see if he does indeed put that relentless drive to good use. I think the wait could be an important one for the sport. I hope he stops listening to his lawyers or anyone thriving off his public image even in its current notorious state!: including himself! I hope Mr Armstrong sees the real issues here because the true achievers in this life are always the ones who pursue those paths that can help steer man to a more moral and noble existence. I hope.
Race Radio said:
Only thing this thread is missing is a fern and Jef Vader
Wish that could happen. He posted here for two days a couple of years ago, and one of the mods thought it was a sockpuppet for someone else, and banned him permanently. The intertubes is a lesser place without his presence though.
 
Sep 24, 2012
13
0
0
You ppl do realize some of us read these threads with smartphones. I'm talking thumb carpal tunnelness. It's all harmless fun till someone gets hurt..

(We do speak sarcasm here?)
 
singer-songwriter said:
Please forgive my posting this here but I was not able to post my comments in full under the actual article today (http://www.cyclingnews.com/features/...was-the-artist) and I wanted them to be read in their entirety as I feel strongly about this subject that is important in the ongoing recouperation of our sports reputation...

IN RESPONSE TO: wfaulconer post (for some reason there was no "reply" tab on this post!)

(QUOTING wfaulconer post) ... I would have liked him to say, "It's utterly unacceptable that we had to lose a cycling talent so early and in such a tormented way. The way we lived and raced back then was deplorable and will hopefully never be repeated. It was ignorant, selfish and dishonest. For anyone to pay for all that with their life is a terrible waste. I sure hope that competing with me didn't somehow contribute to the level of doping and drug activity he did, but I'm sure that it probably did and I'll never forgive myself for that. I'm lucky. I'm humiliated and ruined, but I'm alive. He wasn't the only one to pay with his life, we let it go on much too long and trusted doctors who really shouldn't have held anyone's lives in their hands. The best thing I can do for the sport since I'm not actually willing to really tell it like it is, is to fade into the background and stay away so better minds and better ideas can prevail. We are all ghosts from the past and we should stop haunting everyone. It's practically sacrilegious to comment on it anymore, we're lucky not to be in jail for all the blood on our hands. If we'd all laid down our guns back then, we could have easily raced each other clean and fair. I wish I had been more brave looking back. It's not like I don't know what bravery is, I've stared death down before. I should have said something no matter the cost. Really I was the only one who could have made it work." ....

TO ALL POSTERS HERE... I felt compelled to join CN today after years of being a non subscribing viewer and quite impulsively after having just read this particular post by wfaulconor.

The mounting pressures within a sport I love very much both as a cyclist and an ever excited viewer of the peloton are reaching a peek or at least a poignant stage within the ongoing unravelling of the sports tarnished reputation. Todays anniversary of the great rider Marco Pantani's tragic death is indeed a stark reminder of why we need to rid professional cycling of all its foul play.

I sympathise with the original poster's comments here but I do think there is still a chance Mr Armstrong may indeed be "willing to really tell it like it is". I think it would be a mistake to banish him at this point "to fade into the background and stay away". Yes! Mr Armstrong is a key culprit in the demise of the sports reputation and he has been slow and cautious to respond but it is his very position in this situation that could be vital to help amend the harm that has occurred. I don't for a moment condone his behaviour nor have any doubts that he deserves the punishment he is now having to deal with as a result of his years of deceit, but I do think one should consider the pressure he must have to face with the force of this punishment and appreciate that it must take immense self-will to accept it, swallow it and move on- hopefully to much more moral ground. That "self-will" I can sense some readers thinking: "Armstrongs old selfish ambition" OK! we know of the mans unrelenting will: so far, for the most part, he has used it immorally but I believe everyone has a right to be given a second chance to make amends and as far as professional cycling's current predicament is concerned this might be a second chance that could well serve to go a long way to help restore the sports reputation. I think the real question here is for how long and how far does a man need to be punished before he is deemed able or disable to prove he can follow the right path?

Yes! we could all interpret his comments on Signor Pantani here as another PR exercise. I deplore any drug induced performances in sport and there is no excuse whatsoever for the drug taking Mr Armstrong or any other cyclist has done including the notion: "if everyone else is doing it why should I believe that my doing it is cheating?" We can all interpret what he says here one way or another but between the lines I think there may be a hint of the mans compassion. Professional cycling is no different from football or any other financially driven sport in that the athletes rely on its reputation to earn a living. The hub of the commercial machine that provides that living is in question now: all the drugs and the riders that become tempted to take them are a by-product of the very way that machine entices the foul play to take place: overpassing moral values and replacing them with self-centred desires and greed: a tragic brainwashing of a noble, competitive spirit. I am not suggesting for a moment that the flaw in the machine is an excuse for those riders who have decided to cheat: they know full well it is wrong and should have made more effort to muster their individual strength to resist. I am not here to put that machine to rights nor argue about the amount footballers or any other professional sports people get payed; but I am here saying that whatever it is within the commercial machine that is causing this brainwashing it needs to be kicked into touch: for good. That machine by the way continues to wreak havoc after the culprits have been caught within it. One could argue that the publics current impatience with Mr Armstrongs failure so far to do something truly positive to help the situation is also a result of the same machine that spits out one of its victims damning him from ever doing something right for a change. We all pay to watch these guys spinning round the globe and without our enthusiasm for the sport it wouldn't exist as a public entertainment. Again I make no excuse for the deceitful but I question the very foundations of the current system that promotes cycling. It is a complex web of connections to bring the sport to the public eye but somewhere within this structure are things that continue to tempt the weak into immoral practice. There will always be greedy people in any warp of life: those that are so are sometimes incapable of changing but the weak should be given a chance.

I think it is possible Mr Armstrong has the capacity and courage to say and do what is right to help the sport amend itself. Indeed, for this to happen Mr Armstrong has to tell the world what he surely must see deep down is not only the truth but is the ultimately important, moral and just thing to do to truly help loosen the awful stigma that surrounds professional cycling. Many would say that he has had ample time to do this and I would agree. However considering the density of the quagmire Mr Armstrong has immersed himself into perhaps each relevant jogging of his memories like the unfortunate demise of Marco Pantani today will goad him eventually into full action rather than continuing, disappointingly, to avoid addressing the real issues full in the face as the original poster understandably expresses.

I believe Mr Armstrong does have the compassion to do this if that compassion is currently buried under what must be piles of ongoing practical pressures and maybe his very own self-centred ambition that unfortunately appears, so far, as an old affliction that continues to dominate his actions in the eyes of the public. I hope Mr Armstrong's ambitious streak is indeed a genuine by-product of what can happen to a gifted athlete as a result of an immorally run commercial machine. If not he should indeed step back from the public eye or at least from the cycling community. However my hunch is that, for the moment, predominantly, it is this seemingly old flaw that still thwarts the mans potential to speak out and do something truly great: something that is so, so needed to help project professional cycling into a new clean arena. However I haven't yet ruled out the possibility of seeing Mr Armstrong's status change. Forgive my perhaps naive, over optimistic nature but perhaps we shouldn't rule out the possibility of events occurring in the not too distant future that could curtail a more hopeful outcome possibly a little like the former impostor Frank Abagnale turned government consultant in the film "Catch Me If You Can"

I really hope that the original passion and drive that saved his own life when he was lying on that bed riddled with cancer was a different kind: one from a person indeed among those with "better minds and better ideas" that can eventually prevail and offer a significant boost to the recovery of a sport we all love and admire. Like many I was drawn by the Armstrong story of the cancer survivor and was increasingly disappointed as the drug stories emerged. Few of us have actually met Lance Armstrong and most of us can only surmise his personality from what we read and see on the media (myself included). Perhaps we should be a little more patient to see if he does indeed put that relentless drive to good use. I think the wait could be an important one for the sport. I hope he stops listening to his lawyers or anyone thriving off his public image even in its current notorious state!: including himself! I hope Mr Armstrong sees the real issues here because the true achievers in this life are always the ones who pursue those paths that can help steer man to a more moral and noble existence. I hope.
Back to the initial statement on the original post(who here really read it?), I think it's safe to say you have not yet been forgiven.

On a positive note, it is very possible we could make this the longest thread in CN history before we even hit 10 pages. That is an achievement on par with 3,000,000+ views in the mighty BOB thread.
 
singer-songwriter said:
Please
forgive
my
posting
this
here
but
I
was
not
able
to
post
my
comments
in
full
under
the
actual
article
today

(http://www.cyclingnews.com/features/...was-the-artist)
and
I
wanted
them
to
be
read
in
their
entirety
as
I
feel
strongly
about
this
subject
that
is
important
in
the
ongoing
recouperation
of
our
sports
reputation...


IN
RESPONSE
TO:
wfaulconer
post
(for
some
reason
there
was
no
"reply"
tab
on
this
post!)

(QUOTING
wfaulconer
post) ...
I
would
have
liked
him
to
say,
"It's
utterly
unacceptable
that
we
had
to
lose
a
cycling
talent
so
early
and
in
such
a
tormented
way.
The
way
we
lived
and
raced
back
then
was
deplorable
and
will
hopefully
never
be
repeated.
It
was
ignorant,
selfish
and
dishonest.
For
anyone
to
pay
for
all
that
with
their
life
is
a
terrible
waste.
I
sure
hope
that
competing
with
me
didn't
somehow
contribute
to
the
level
of
doping
and
drug
activity
he
did,
but
I'm
sure
that
it
probably
did
and
I'll
never
forgive
myself
for
that.
I'm
lucky.
I'm
humiliated
and
ruined,
but
I'm
alive.
He
wasn't
the
only
one
to
pay
with
his
life,
we
let
it
go
on
much
too
long
and
trusted
doctors
who
really
shouldn't
have
held
anyone's
lives
in
their
hands.
The
best
thing
I
can
do
for
the
sport
since
I'm
not
actually
willing
to
really
tell
it
like
it
is,
is to
fade into the
background and stay away
so better minds and better ideas
can prevail. We are all ghosts from
the past and we should stop haunting
everyone. It's practically sacrilegious
to comment on it anymore, we're
lucky not to be in jail for all
the blood on our hands.
If we'd all laid down
our guns back
then, we
could
have
easily
raced each
other clean and
fair. I wish I had been
more brave looking back.
It's not like I don't know what
bravery is, I've stared death down
before. I should have said something
no matter the cost. Really I was the only
one who could have made it work."
....

TO ALL POSTERS HERE... I felt compelled
to join CN today after years of being a
non subscribing viewer and quite
impulsively after having just
read this particular post
by wfaulconor.

The mounting
pressures
within
a
sport
I
love
very much
both as a cyclist
and an ever excited
viewer of the peloton
are reaching a peek or
at least a poignant stage
within the ongoing unravelling
of the sports tarnished
reputation. Todays
anniversary of
the great
rider
Marco
Pantani's
tragic death
is indeed a stark
reminder of why we
need to rid professional
cycling of all its foul play.

I sympathise with the
original poster's
comments
here
but
I
do
think
there
is still
a chance
Mr Armstrong
may indeed be
"willing to really
tell it like it is". I
think it would be
a mistake to banish
him at this point "to
fade into the
background
and stay
away".
Yes!
Mr
Armstrong
is a key culprit in the
demise
of the sports reputation
and
he has been slow and
cautious
to respond but it is his
very
position in this situation
that
could be vital to help
amend
the harm that has occurred.
I
don't for a moment condone
his
behaviour nor have any doubts
that
he
deserves
the punishment
he is now having
to deal with as a
result of his years of
deceit, but I do think one
should consider the pressure
he must have to face with the
force of this punishment and appreciate
that it must take immense self-will to accept it,
swallow it and move on- hopefully to much more
moral ground. That "self-will" I can sense some readers
thinking: "Armstrongs old selfish ambition" OK! we
know of the mans unrelenting will: so far, for
the most part, he has used it immorally
but I believe everyone has a right
to be given a second chance
to make amends and as
far as professional
cycling's current
predicament is
concerned
this might
be a
second
chance
that
could
well
serve
to go a
long way to
help restore the
sports reputation. I
think the real question here
is for how long and how far does
a man need to be punished before he
is deemed able or disable to prove he can
follow the right path?

Yes! we could all
interpret his
comments
on Signor
Pantani
here
as
another
PR
exercise.
I
deplore
any drug
induced
performances
in sport and there
is no excuse whatsoever
for the drug taking Mr Armstrong
or any other cyclist has done including
the notion: "if everyone else is doing it why
should I believe that my doing it is cheating?" We
can all interpret what he says here one way or another
but between the lines I think there may be a hint of the
mans compassion. Professional cycling is no different
from football or any other financially driven sport in
that the athletes rely on its reputation to earn a
living. The hub of the commercial machine that
provides that living is in question now: all
the drugs and the riders that become
tempted to take them are a
by-product of the very
way that machine
entices the foul
play to take
place:
overpassing
moral
values
and
replacing
them with
self-centred
desires and greed:
a tragic brainwashing
of a noble, competitive
spirit. I am not suggesting
for a moment that the flaw in
the machine is an excuse for those
riders who have decided to cheat: they
know full well it is wrong and should have
made more effort to muster their individual
strength to resist. I am not here to put that
machine to rights nor argue about the amount
footballers or any other professional sports people
get payed; but I am here saying that whatever it is
within the commercial machine that is causing this
brainwashing it needs to be kicked into touch: for
good. That machine by the way continues to
wreak havoc after the culprits have been
caught within it. One could argue that
the publics current impatience with
Mr Armstrongs failure so far to do
something truly positive to help
the situation is also a result
of the same machine that
spits out one of its
victims damning
him from ever
doing
something
right for a
change. We
all pay to watch
these guys spinning
round the globe and
without our enthusiasm
for the sport it wouldn't
exist as a public entertainment.
Again I make no excuse for the
deceitful but I question the very
foundations of the current system
that promotes cycling. It is a complex
web of connections to bring the sport
to the public eye but somewhere within
this structure are things that continue to
tempt the weak into immoral practice. There
will always be greedy people in any warp of life:
those that are so are sometimes incapable of changing
but the weak should be given a chance.

I think it is possible Mr Armstrong
has the capacity and courage
to say and do what is right
to help the sport amend
itself. Indeed, for this
to happen Mr
Armstrong
has to
tell
the
world
what he
surely must
see deep down
is not only the truth
but is the ultimately
important, moral and
just thing to do to truly
help loosen the awful stigma
that surrounds professional cycling.
Many would say that he has had ample
time to do this and I would agree. However
considering the density of the quagmire Mr
Armstrong has immersed himself into perhaps
each relevant jogging of his memories like the
unfortunate demise of Marco Pantani today will
goad him eventually into full action rather than
continuing, disappointingly, to avoid addressing the
real issues full in the face as the original poster understandably
expresses.

I believe
Mr
Armstrong
does have
the compassion
to do this if that
compassion is currently
buried under what must be
piles of ongoing practical pressures
and maybe his very own self-centred
ambition that unfortunately appears, so
far, as an old affliction that continues to
dominate his actions in the eyes of the public.
I hope Mr Armstrong's ambitious streak is indeed
a genuine by-product of what can happen to a gifted
athlete as a result of an immorally run commercial machine.
If not he should indeed step back from the public eye or at
least from the cycling community. However my hunch is that,
for the moment, predominantly, it is this seemingly old flaw
that still thwarts the mans potential to speak out and do
something truly great: something that is so, so needed
to help project professional cycling into a new clean
arena. However I haven't yet ruled out the
possibility of seeing Mr Armstrong's status
change. Forgive my perhaps naive, over
optimistic nature but perhaps we
shouldn't rule out the possibility
of events occurring in the not
too distant future that
could curtail a more
hopeful outcome
possibly a little
like the former
impostor
Frank
Abagnale
turned
government
consultant
in
the
film
"Catch
Me
If
You
Can"

I
really
hope that
the original passion
and drive that saved
his own life when he was
lying on that bed riddled with
cancer was a different kind: one
from a person indeed among those
with "better minds and better ideas"
that can eventually prevail and offer a
significant boost to the recovery of a sport
we all lov
All you smart phone readers can suck it.

10,000 chars exact, b!tches!
 
Feb 14, 2014
9
0
0
Reference article: Armstrong/Pantani re-linked to new location on CN

singer-songwriter said:
Please forgive my posting this here but I was not able to post my comments in full under the actual article today (http://www.cyclingnews.com/features/armstrong-if-i-was-the-carpenter-pantani-was-the-artist) and I wanted them to be read in their entirety as I feel strongly about this subject that is important in the ongoing recouperation of our sports reputation...

IN RESPONSE TO: wfaulconer post (for some reason there was no "reply" tab on this post!)

(QUOTING wfaulconer post) ... I would have liked him to say, "It's utterly unacceptable that we had to lose a cycling talent so early and in such a tormented way. The way we lived and raced back then was deplorable and will hopefully never be repeated. It was ignorant, selfish and dishonest. For anyone to pay for all that with their life is a terrible waste. I sure hope that competing with me didn't somehow contribute to the level of doping and drug activity he did, but I'm sure that it probably did and I'll never forgive myself for that. I'm lucky. I'm humiliated and ruined, but I'm alive. He wasn't the only one to pay with his life, we let it go on much too long and trusted doctors who really shouldn't have held anyone's lives in their hands. The best thing I can do for the sport since I'm not actually willing to really tell it like it is, is to fade into the background and stay away so better minds and better ideas can prevail. We are all ghosts from the past and we should stop haunting everyone. It's practically sacrilegious to comment on it anymore, we're lucky not to be in jail for all the blood on our hands. If we'd all laid down our guns back then, we could have easily raced each other clean and fair. I wish I had been more brave looking back. It's not like I don't know what bravery is, I've stared death down before. I should have said something no matter the cost. Really I was the only one who could have made it work." ....

TO ALL POSTERS HERE... I felt compelled to join CN today after years of being a non subscribing viewer and quite impulsively after having just read this particular post by wfaulconor.

The mounting pressures within a sport I love very much both as a cyclist and an ever excited viewer of the peloton are reaching a peek or at least a poignant stage within the ongoing unravelling of the sports tarnished reputation. Todays anniversary of the great rider Marco Pantani's tragic death is indeed a stark reminder of why we need to rid professional cycling of all its foul play.

I sympathise with the original poster's comments here but I do think there is still a chance Mr Armstrong may indeed be "willing to really tell it like it is". I think it would be a mistake to banish him at this point "to fade into the background and stay away". Yes! Mr Armstrong is a key culprit in the demise of the sports reputation and he has been slow and cautious to respond but it is his very position in this situation that could be vital to help amend the harm that has occurred. I don't for a moment condone his behaviour nor have any doubts that he deserves the punishment he is now having to deal with as a result of his years of deceit, but I do think one should consider the pressure he must have to face with the force of this punishment and appreciate that it must take immense self-will to accept it, swallow it and move on- hopefully to much more moral ground. That "self-will" I can sense some readers thinking: "Armstrongs old selfish ambition" OK! we know of the mans unrelenting will: so far, for the most part, he has used it immorally but I believe everyone has a right to be given a second chance to make amends and as far as professional cycling's current predicament is concerned this might be a second chance that could well serve to go a long way to help restore the sports reputation. I think the real question here is for how long and how far does a man need to be punished before he is deemed able or disable to prove he can follow the right path?

Yes! we could all interpret his comments on Signor Pantani here as another PR exercise. I deplore any drug induced performances in sport and there is no excuse whatsoever for the drug taking Mr Armstrong or any other cyclist has done including the notion: "if everyone else is doing it why should I believe that my doing it is cheating?" We can all interpret what he says here one way or another but between the lines I think there may be a hint of the mans compassion. Professional cycling is no different from football or any other financially driven sport in that the athletes rely on its reputation to earn a living. The hub of the commercial machine that provides that living is in question now: all the drugs and the riders that become tempted to take them are a by-product of the very way that machine entices the foul play to take place: overpassing moral values and replacing them with self-centred desires and greed: a tragic brainwashing of a noble, competitive spirit. I am not suggesting for a moment that the flaw in the machine is an excuse for those riders who have decided to cheat: they know full well it is wrong and should have made more effort to muster their individual strength to resist. I am not here to put that machine to rights nor argue about the amount footballers or any other professional sports people get payed; but I am here saying that whatever it is within the commercial machine that is causing this brainwashing it needs to be kicked into touch: for good. That machine by the way continues to wreak havoc after the culprits have been caught within it. One could argue that the publics current impatience with Mr Armstrongs failure so far to do something truly positive to help the situation is also a result of the same machine that spits out one of its victims damning him from ever doing something right for a change. We all pay to watch these guys spinning round the globe and without our enthusiasm for the sport it wouldn't exist as a public entertainment. Again I make no excuse for the deceitful but I question the very foundations of the current system that promotes cycling. It is a complex web of connections to bring the sport to the public eye but somewhere within this structure are things that continue to tempt the weak into immoral practice. There will always be greedy people in any warp of life: those that are so are sometimes incapable of changing but the weak should be given a chance.

I think it is possible Mr Armstrong has the capacity and courage to say and do what is right to help the sport amend itself. Indeed, for this to happen Mr Armstrong has to tell the world what he surely must see deep down is not only the truth but is the ultimately important, moral and just thing to do to truly help loosen the awful stigma that surrounds professional cycling. Many would say that he has had ample time to do this and I would agree. However considering the density of the quagmire Mr Armstrong has immersed himself into perhaps each relevant jogging of his memories like the unfortunate demise of Marco Pantani today will goad him eventually into full action rather than continuing, disappointingly, to avoid addressing the real issues full in the face as the original poster understandably expresses.

I believe Mr Armstrong does have the compassion to do this if that compassion is currently buried under what must be piles of ongoing practical pressures and maybe his very own self-centred ambition that unfortunately appears, so far, as an old affliction that continues to dominate his actions in the eyes of the public. I hope Mr Armstrong's ambitious streak is indeed a genuine by-product of what can happen to a gifted athlete as a result of an immorally run commercial machine. If not he should indeed step back from the public eye or at least from the cycling community. However my hunch is that, for the moment, predominantly, it is this seemingly old flaw that still thwarts the mans potential to speak out and do something truly great: something that is so, so needed to help project professional cycling into a new clean arena. However I haven't yet ruled out the possibility of seeing Mr Armstrong's status change. Forgive my perhaps naive, over optimistic nature but perhaps we shouldn't rule out the possibility of events occurring in the not too distant future that could curtail a more hopeful outcome possibly a little like the former impostor Frank Abagnale turned government consultant in the film "Catch Me If You Can"

I really hope that the original passion and drive that saved his own life when he was lying on that bed riddled with cancer was a different kind: one from a person indeed among those with "better minds and better ideas" that can eventually prevail and offer a significant boost to the recovery of a sport we all love and admire. Like many I was drawn by the Armstrong story of the cancer survivor and was increasingly disappointed as the drug stories emerged. Few of us have actually met Lance Armstrong and most of us can only surmise his personality from what we read and see on the media (myself included). Perhaps we should be a little more patient to see if he does indeed put that relentless drive to good use. I think the wait could be an important one for the sport. I hope he stops listening to his lawyers or anyone thriving off his public image even in its current notorious state!: including himself! I hope Mr Armstrong sees the real issues here because the true achievers in this life are always the ones who pursue those paths that can help steer man to a more moral and noble existence. I hope.
(Reference article: Armstrong/Pantani re-linked to new CN location on website)
 
Dec 7, 2010
5,507
0
0
BroDeal said:
singer-songwriter said:
Please
forgive
my
posting
this
here
but
I
was
not
able
to
post
my
comments
in
full
under
the
actual
article
today
(http://www.cyclingnews.com/features/...was-the-artist)
and
I
wanted
them
to
be
read
in
their
entirety
as
I
feel
strongly
about
this
subject
that
is
important
in
the
ongoing
recouperation
of
our
sports
reputation...


IN
RESPONSE
TO:
wfaulconer
post
(for
some
reason
there
was
no
"reply"
tab
on
this
post!)

(QUOTING
wfaulconer
post) ...
I
would
have
liked
him
to
say,
"It's
utterly
unacceptable
that
we
had
to
lose
a
cycling
talent
so
early
and
in
such
a
tormented
way.
The
way
we
lived
and
raced
back
then
was
deplorable
and
will
hopefully
never
be
repeated.
It
was
ignorant,
selfish
and
dishonest.
For
anyone
to
pay
for
all
that
with
their
life
is
a
terrible
waste.
I
sure
hope
that
competing
with
me
didn't
somehow
contribute
to
the
level
of
doping
and
drug
activity
he
did,
but
I'm
sure
that
it
probably
did
and
I'll
never
forgive
myself
for
that.
I'm
lucky.
I'm
humiliated
and
ruined,
but
I'm
alive.
He
wasn't
the
only
one
to
pay
with
his
life,
we
let
it
go
on
much
too
long
and
trusted
doctors
who
really
shouldn't
have
held
anyone's
lives
in
their
hands.
The
best
thing
I
can
do
for
the
sport
since
I'm
not
actually
willing
to
really
tell
it
like
it
is,
is to
fade into the
background and stay away
so better minds and better ideas
can prevail. We are all ghosts from
the past and we should stop haunting
everyone. It's practically sacrilegious
to comment on it anymore, we're
lucky not to be in jail for all
the blood on our hands.
If we'd all laid down
our guns back
then, we
could
have
easily
raced each
other clean and
fair. I wish I had been
more brave looking back.
It's not like I don't know what
bravery is, I've stared death down
before. I should have said something
no matter the cost. Really I was the only
one who could have made it work." ....

TO ALL POSTERS HERE... I felt compelled
to join CN today after years of being a
non subscribing viewer and quite
impulsively after having just
read this particular post
by wfaulconor.

The mounting
pressures
within
a
sport
I
love
very much
both as a cyclist
and an ever excited
viewer of the peloton
are reaching a peek or
at least a poignant stage
within the ongoing unravelling
of the sports tarnished
reputation. Todays
anniversary of
the great
rider
Marco
Pantani's
tragic death
is indeed a stark
reminder of why we
need to rid professional
cycling of all its foul play.

I sympathise with the
original poster's
comments
here
but
I
do
think
there
is still
a chance
Mr Armstrong
may indeed be
"willing to really
tell it like it is". I
think it would be
a mistake to banish
him at this point "to
fade into the
background
and stay
away".
Yes!
Mr
Armstrong
is a key culprit in the
demise
of the sports reputation
and
he has been slow and
cautious
to respond but it is his
very
position in this situation
that
could be vital to help
amend
the harm that has occurred.
I
don't for a moment condone
his
behaviour nor have any doubts
that
he
deserves
the punishment
he is now having
to deal with as a
result of his years of
deceit, but I do think one
should consider the pressure
he must have to face with the
force of this punishment and appreciate
that it must take immense self-will to accept it,
swallow it and move on- hopefully to much more
moral ground. That "self-will" I can sense some readers
thinking: "Armstrongs old selfish ambition" OK! we
know of the mans unrelenting will: so far, for
the most part, he has used it immorally
but I believe everyone has a right
to be given a second chance
to make amends and as
far as professional
cycling's current
predicament is
concerned
this might
be a
second
chance
that
could
well
serve
to go a
long way to
help restore the
sports reputation. I
think the real question here
is for how long and how far does
a man need to be punished before he
is deemed able or disable to prove he can
follow the right path?

Yes! we could all
interpret his
comments
on Signor
Pantani
here
as
another
PR
exercise.
I
deplore
any drug
induced
performances
in sport and there
is no excuse whatsoever
for the drug taking Mr Armstrong
or any other cyclist has done including
the notion: "if everyone else is doing it why
should I believe that my doing it is cheating?" We
can all interpret what he says here one way or another
but between the lines I think there may be a hint of the
mans compassion. Professional cycling is no different
from football or any other financially driven sport in
that the athletes rely on its reputation to earn a
living. The hub of the commercial machine that
provides that living is in question now: all
the drugs and the riders that become
tempted to take them are a
by-product of the very
way that machine
entices the foul
play to take
place:
overpassing
moral
values
and
replacing
them with
self-centred
desires and greed:
a tragic brainwashing
of a noble, competitive
spirit. I am not suggesting
for a moment that the flaw in
the machine is an excuse for those
riders who have decided to cheat: they
know full well it is wrong and should have
made more effort to muster their individual
strength to resist. I am not here to put that
machine to rights nor argue about the amount
footballers or any other professional sports people
get payed; but I am here saying that whatever it is
within the commercial machine that is causing this
brainwashing it needs to be kicked into touch: for
good. That machine by the way continues to
wreak havoc after the culprits have been
caught within it. One could argue that
the publics current impatience with
Mr Armstrongs failure so far to do
something truly positive to help
the situation is also a result
of the same machine that
spits out one of its
victims damning
him from ever
doing
something
right for a
change. We
all pay to watch
these guys spinning
round the globe and
without our enthusiasm
for the sport it wouldn't
exist as a public entertainment.
Again I make no excuse for the
deceitful but I question the very
foundations of the current system
that promotes cycling. It is a complex
web of connections to bring the sport
to the public eye but somewhere within
this structure are things that continue to
tempt the weak into immoral practice. There
will always be greedy people in any warp of life:
those that are so are sometimes incapable of changing
but the weak should be given a chance.

I think it is possible Mr Armstrong
has the capacity and courage
to say and do what is right
to help the sport amend
itself. Indeed, for this
to happen Mr
Armstrong
has to
tell
the
world
what he
surely must
see deep down
is not only the truth
but is the ultimately
important, moral and
just thing to do to truly
help loosen the awful stigma
that surrounds professional cycling.
Many would say that he has had ample
time to do this and I would agree. However
considering the density of the quagmire Mr
Armstrong has immersed himself into perhaps
each relevant jogging of his memories like the
unfortunate demise of Marco Pantani today will
goad him eventually into full action rather than
continuing, disappointingly, to avoid addressing the
real issues full in the face as the original poster understandably
expresses.

I believe
Mr
Armstrong
does have
the compassion
to do this if that
compassion is currently
buried under what must be
piles of ongoing practical pressures
and maybe his very own self-centred
ambition that unfortunately appears, so
far, as an old affliction that continues to
dominate his actions in the eyes of the public.
I hope Mr Armstrong's ambitious streak is indeed
a genuine by-product of what can happen to a gifted
athlete as a result of an immorally run commercial machine.
If not he should indeed step back from the public eye or at
least from the cycling community. However my hunch is that,
for the moment, predominantly, it is this seemingly old flaw
that still thwarts the mans potential to speak out and do
something truly great: something that is so, so needed
to help project professional cycling into a new clean
arena. However I haven't yet ruled out the
possibility of seeing Mr Armstrong's status
change. Forgive my perhaps naive, over
optimistic nature but perhaps we
shouldn't rule out the possibility
of events occurring in the not
too distant future that
could curtail a more
hopeful outcome
possibly a little
like the former
impostor
Frank
Abagnale
turned
government
consultant
in
the
film
"Catch
Me
If
You
Can"

I
really
hope that
the original passion
and drive that saved
his own life when he was
lying on that bed riddled with
cancer was a different kind: one
from a person indeed among those
with "better minds and better ideas"
that can eventually prevail and offer a
significant boost to the recovery of a sport
we all love and admire. I hope he stops
listening to his lawyers or anyone
thriving off his public image
even in its current notorious
state!: including himself!
I hope Mr Armstrong
sees the real issues
here because the
true achievers
in this life
are always
the ones
who pursue
those paths
that can help
steer man to
a more moral
and noble
existence.
I hope.


All you smart phone readers can suck it.

10,000 chars exact, b!tches!

And a stage profile to boot!

Outstanding.

(Additional chars at no extra charge :cool:)
 
May 27, 2012
6,458
0
0
singer-songwriter said:
Please forgive my posting this here but I was not able to post my comments in full under the actual article today (http://www.cyclingnews.com/features/armstrong-if-i-was-the-carpenter-pantani-was-the-artist) and I wanted them to be read in their entirety as I feel strongly about this subject that is important in the ongoing recouperation of our sports reputation...

(QUOTING wfaulconer post) ... I would have liked him to say, "It's utterly unacceptable that we had to lose a cycling talent so early and in such a tormented way. The way we lived and raced back then was deplorable and will hopefully never be repeated. It was ignorant, selfish and dishonest. I sure hope that competing with me didn't somehow contribute to the level of doping and drug activity he did, but I'm sure that it probably did and I'll never forgive myself for that. I'm lucky. I'm humiliated and ruined, but I'm alive. He wasn't the only one to pay with his life, we let it go on much too long and trusted doctors who really shouldn't have held anyone's lives in their hands. The best thing I can do for the sport since I'm not actually willing to really tell it like it is, is to fade into the background and stay away so better minds and better ideas can prevail. We are all ghosts from the past and we should stop haunting everyone. It's practically sacrilegious to comment on it anymore, we're lucky not to be in jail for all the blood on our hands. If we'd all laid down our guns back then, we could have easily raced each other clean and fair. I wish I had been more brave looking back. It's not like I don't know what bravery is, I've stared death down before. I should have said something no matter the cost. Really I was the only one who could have made it work." ....

TO ALL POSTERS HERE... I felt compelled to join CN today after years of being a non subscribing viewer and quite impulsively after having just read this particular post by wfaulconor.

The mounting pressures within a sport I love very much both as a cyclist and an ever excited viewer of the peloton are reaching a peek or at least a poignant stage within the ongoing unravelling of the sports tarnished reputation. Todays anniversary of the great rider Marco Pantani's tragic death is indeed a stark reminder of why we need to rid professional cycling of all its foul play.

I sympathise with the original poster's comments here but I do think there is still a chance Mr Armstrong may indeed be "willing to really tell it like it is". I think it would be a mistake to banish him at this point "to fade into the background and stay away". Yes! Mr Armstrong is a key culprit in the demise of the sports reputation and he has been slow and cautious to respond but it is his very position in this situation that could be vital to help amend the harm that has occurred. I don't for a moment condone his behaviour nor have any doubts that he deserves the punishment he is now having to deal with as a result of his years of deceit, but I do think one should consider the pressure he must have to face with the force of this punishment and appreciate that it must take immense self-will to accept it, swallow it and move on- hopefully to much more moral ground. That "self-will" I can sense some readers thinking: "Armstrongs old selfish ambition" OK! we know of the mans unrelenting will: he has used it immorally but I believe everyone has a right to be given a second chance to make amends and as far as professional cycling's current predicament is concerned this might be a second chance that could well serve to go a long way to help restore the sports reputation. I think the real question here is for how long and how far does a man need to be punished before he is deemed able or disable to prove he can follow the right path?

Yes! we could all interpret his comments on Signor Pantani here as another PR exercise. I deplore any drug induced performances in sport and there is no excuse whatsoever for the drug taking Mr Armstrong or any other cyclist has done including the notion: "if everyone else is doing it why should I believe that my doing it is cheating?" We can all interpret what he says here one way or another but between the lines I think there may be a hint of the mans compassion. Professional cycling is no different from football or any other financially driven sport in that the athletes rely on its reputation to earn a living. The hub of the commercial machine that provides that living is in question now: all the drugs and the riders that become tempted to take them are a by-product of the very way that machine entices the foul play to take place: overpassing moral values and replacing them with self-centred desires and greed: a tragic brainwashing of a noble, competitive spirit. I am not suggesting for a moment that the flaw in the machine is an excuse for those riders who have decided to cheat: they know full well it is wrong and should have made more effort to muster their individual strength to resist. I am not here to put that machine to rights nor argue about the amount footballers or any other professional sports people get payed; but I am here saying that whatever it is within the commercial machine that is causing this brainwashing it needs to be kicked into touch: for good. That machine by the way continues to wreak havoc after the culprits have been caught within it. One could argue that the publics current impatience with Mr Armstrongs failure so far to do something truly positive to help the situation is also a result of the same machine that spits out one of its victims damning him from ever doing something right for a change. We all pay to watch these guys spinning round the globe and without our enthusiasm for the sport it wouldn't exist as a public entertainment. Again I make no excuse for the deceitful but I question the very foundations of the current system that promotes cycling. It is a complex web of connections to bring the sport to the public eye but somewhere within this structure are things that continue to tempt the weak into immoral practice. There will always be greedy people in any warp of life: those that are so are sometimes incapable of changing but the weak should be given a chance.

I think it is possible Mr Armstrong has the capacity and courage to say and do what is right to help the sport amend itself. Indeed, for this to happen Mr Armstrong has to tell the world what he surely must see deep down is not only the truth but is the ultimately important, moral and just thing to do to truly help loosen the awful stigma that surrounds professional cycling. Many would say that he has had ample time to do this and I would agree. However considering the density of the quagmire Mr Armstrong has immersed himself into perhaps each relevant jogging of his memories like the unfortunate demise of Marco Pantani today will goad him eventually into full action rather than continuing, disappointingly, to avoid addressing the real issues full in the face as the original poster understandably expresses.

I believe Mr Armstrong does have the compassion to do this if that compassion is currently buried under what must be piles of ongoing practical pressures and maybe his very own self-centred ambition that unfortunately appears, so far, as an old affliction that continues to dominate his actions in the eyes of the public. I hope Mr Armstrong's ambitious streak is indeed a genuine by-product of what can happen to a gifted athlete as a result of an immorally run commercial machine. If not he should indeed step back from the public eye or at least from the cycling community. However my hunch is that, for the moment, predominantly, it is this seemingly old flaw that still thwarts the mans potential to speak out and do something truly great: something that is so, so needed to help project professional cycling into a new clean arena. However I haven't yet ruled out the possibility of seeing Mr Armstrong's status change. Forgive my perhaps naive, over optimistic nature but perhaps we shouldn't rule out the possibility of events occurring in the not too distant future that could curtail a more hopeful outcome possibly a little like the former impostor Frank Abagnale turned government consultant in the film "Catch Me If You Can"

I really hope that the original passion and drive that saved his own life when he was lying on that bed riddled with cancer was a different kind: one from a person indeed among those with "better minds and better ideas" that can eventually prevail and offer a significant boost to the recovery of a sport we all love and admire. Like many I was drawn by the Armstrong story of the cancer survivor and was increasingly disappointed as the drug stories emerged. Few of us have actually met Lance Armstrong and most of us can only surmise his personality from what we read and see on the media (myself included). Perhaps we should be a little more patient to see if he does indeed put that relentless drive to good use. I think the wait could be an important one for the sport. I hope he stops listening to his lawyers or anyone thriving off his public image even in its current notorious state!: including himself! I hope Mr Armstrong sees the real issues here because the true achievers in this life are always the ones who pursue those paths that can help steer man to a more moral and noble existence. I hope.
ebandit said:


you get the forum you deserve

Mark L
And you get the thread you deserve because you keep putting the cursor thingy over the link to the thread thingy and then clickingy ity...

Go complain to the mods or something and quit your incessanty whiningy...:rolleyes:

Trey W
 
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