Armstrong & Unity

[runninboy]

Sorry just had to start this i couldnt believe the quote today

Armstrong said. “But it's at a sensitive state right now. Other sports have a done a good job ignoring whatever issue they may or may not have; or dealing with it internally, or dealing with it through a players' union or teams' union or governing body.”

''Our [issues] most of the time play out in the public eye, [with] people popping off in the press. As long as that kind of anarchy exists we'll never move forward. It's easy for people to use the UCI as a sort of whipping boy … To me, there is total lack of solidarity or unity when it comes to the athlete and the team. Whether it's entry to races, or race radios, there will still be issues.”

To all those who don't believe "Omerta " exists look to this quote again

"doing a good job ignoring whatever issue"

he is also calling transparency "anarchy"

To all the Lance supporters, do you really believe rules & laws should just be ignored or dealt with internally? Would that not in fact be a pretty fair definition of Omerta? Keep all issues only amongst the hierachy of the sport and not release any sensitive information to the fans & general public?

Is this not intimidation? We will police ourselves under a blanket of secrecy?

Isn't this what he denied doing to Simeoni & others?

just wondering how LA supporters can rationalize his remarks, transparency is a cornerstone of justice. When you have obfuscation & secrecy you cannot maintain justice or a level playing field.
Why have rules at all? there must be rules & oversight and transparency all the way to the people who ultimately foot the bill for the salaries of the sport, the fans.

 

[jimbob_in_co]

Sorry just had to start this i couldnt believe the quote today

Armstrong said. “But it's at a sensitive state right now. Other sports have a done a good job ignoring whatever issue they may or may not have; or dealing with it internally, or dealing with it through a players' union or teams' union or governing body.”

''Our [issues] most of the time play out in the public eye, [with] people popping off in the press. As long as that kind of anarchy exists we'll never move forward. It's easy for people to use the UCI as a sort of whipping boy … To me, there is total lack of solidarity or unity when it comes to the athlete and the team. Whether it's entry to races, or race radios, there will still be issues.”

A scene from one of my favorite movies comes to mind...

Bart: "Well, can't you see that's the last act of a desperate man?"
Howard Johnson: "We don't care if it's the first act of 'Henry V', we're leaving!"

 

[runninboy]

A scene from one of my favorite movies comes to mind...

Bart: "Well, can't you see that's the last act of a desperate man?"
Howard Johnson: "We don't care if it's the first act of 'Henry V', we're leaving!"

Excellent reference!
From the same movie
as the mob is about to execute the black sherriff the minister steps in and tells everyone to heed the words contained in the good book which he raises high in the air and the mob subsequently shoots out of his hand

Minister(sotto voce to the sheriff) "You're on your own son..."

 

[flicker]

Sorry just had to start this i couldnt believe the quote today

Armstrong said. “But it's at a sensitive state right now. Other sports have a done a good job ignoring whatever issue they may or may not have; or dealing with it internally, or dealing with it through a players' union or teams' union or governing body.”

''Our [issues] most of the time play out in the public eye, [with] people popping off in the press. As long as that kind of anarchy exists we'll never move forward. It's easy for people to use the UCI as a sort of whipping boy … To me, there is total lack of solidarity or unity when it comes to the athlete and the team. Whether it's entry to races, or race radios, there will still be issues.”

To all those who don't believe "Omerta " exists look to this quote again

"doing a good job ignoring whatever issue"

he is also calling transparency "anarchy"

To all the Lance supporters, do you really believe rules & laws should just be ignored or dealt with internally? Would that not in fact be a pretty fair definition of Omerta? Keep all issues only amongst the hierachy of the sport and not release any sensitive information to the fans & general public?

Is this not intimidation? We will police ourselves under a blanket of secrecy?

Isn't this what he denied doing to Simeoni & others?

just wondering how LA supporters can rationalize his remarks, transparency is a cornerstone of justice. When you have obfuscation & secrecy you cannot maintain justice or a level playing field.
Why have rules at all? there must be rules & oversight and transparency all the way to the people who ultimately foot the bill for the salaries of the sport, the fans.

Lance represents cycling. Cycling needs a patron. Someday there will be another patron.

 

[BotanyBay]

Lance, to hell with your intimidation quote. You're as much the boss today as Jan Raas is. Meaning "You're no longer the boss".

 

[runninboy]

Lance represents cycling. Cycling needs a patron. Someday there will be another patron.

patron?
I think more descriptive term would be "Godfather"
tell me the difference please

 

[flicker]

patron?
I think more descriptive term would be "Godfather"
tell me the difference please

Let me put it this way. Ex world champion, 7 consecutive TdF wins. Winner Leadville 100 and Nevada City classic. Attracted Discovery TV to cycling, Radio Shack, TREK, Berry Floors, Radioshack, Nike,Oakley,sponsors. Owns U-23 team, friends with the Merckxs, employing Axel. Livestrong.

Also re- invigorated and brought to life a classic American Stage RACE IN COLORADO. Attracted primary sponsor.

Mentioned with respect by current members of the pro peloton.

Patron, yes Lance is.

The insinuation of a Sicilian American mob boss. No.

 

[jimbob_in_co]

Also re- invigorated and brought to life a classic American Stage RACE IN COLORADO. Attracted primary sponsor.

I certainly hope this yet to be raced Quiznos Pro Challenge will survive the coming fall of Lance Armstrong and fallout from it. I was always uneasy that he was the face of this event at the announcement on the steps of Capitol Building last summer while Davis Phinney was off to the side like 'some near nobody'.

Armstrong WAS the patron of the peloton, but those days ended in late July 2005.

 

[BotanyBay]

Let me put it this way. Ex world champion, 7 consecutive TdF wins. Winner Leadville 100 and Nevada City classic. Attracted Discovery TV to cycling, Radio Shack, TREK, Berry Floors, Radioshack, Nike,Oakley,sponsors. Owns U-23 team, friends with the Merckxs, employing Axel. Livestrong.

Also re- invigorated and brought to life a classic American Stage RACE IN COLORADO. Attracted primary sponsor.

Mentioned with respect by current members of the pro peloton.

Patron, yes Lance is.

The insinuation of a Sicilian American mob boss. No.

Sometimes the mighty do fall:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bernard_Kerik

 

[flicker]

I certainly hope this yet to be raced Quiznos Pro Challenge will survive the coming fall of Lance Armstrong and fallout from it. I was always uneasy that he was the face of this event at the announcement on the steps of Capitol Building last summer while Davis Phinney was off to the side like 'some near nobody'.

Armstrong WAS the patron of the peloton, but those days ended in late July 2005.

To be honest I think D. Phinney will get his due. When Pro-Cycling magazine is profiling his son Taylor in 10 years, Connie and Davis will be mentioned.

It is great to see the race in Colorado.

 

[runninboy]

Let me put it this way. Ex world champion, 7 consecutive TdF wins. Winner Leadville 100 and Nevada City classic. Attracted Discovery TV to cycling, Radio Shack, TREK, Berry Floors, Radioshack, Nike,Oakley,sponsors. Owns U-23 team, friends with the Merckxs, employing Axel. Livestrong.

Also re- invigorated and brought to life a classic American Stage RACE IN COLORADO. Attracted primary sponsor.

Mentioned with respect by current members of the pro peloton.

Patron, yes Lance is.

The insinuation of a Sicilian American mob boss. No.

from my understanding Sicialian mob bosses do alot of "good" for their communities too. They can be benevolent businessmen, as that is crucial to their support in the community. They tend to be among the largest supporters of charity and give away vast sums to good causes.
I think it is pretty commonplace, for example, to support those children orphaned by the actions of the mob controlled by the Godfather.
Of course if there was no mob those children would have their parents for support, which they might prefer.

A true "patron" does not call for silence
a Godfather does.
Why would a patron not want transparency? If you are proud of the Army you lead on the road you want their to be no question that it is beyond reproach and that you are a noble leader. What honour can come from repressing the masses my friend?

 

[jimbob_in_co]

To be honest I think D. Phinney will get his due. When Pro-Cycling magazine is profiling his son Taylor in 10 years, Connie and Davis will be mentioned.

It is great to see the race in Colorado.

I am with you flicker. As I type this, I can see my poster from the 1982 Coors International Bicycle Classic, and my Greg Lemond 1986 TdF champion poster from Avocet.

Also, Mr. Davis Phinney is the epitome of class.

 

[flicker]

I am with you flicker. As I type this, I can see my poster from the 1982 Coors International Bicycle Classic, and my Greg Lemond 1986 TdF champion poster from Avocet.

Also, Mr. Davis Phinney is the epitome of class.

Epic. Greg to brought something special to the Coors classic. I hope that Greg, Hinault and others are acknowledged in this years race. Pure Class!

Armstrong is just a part of cycling.

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

Well of course Lance is going to uphold the omerta, he's done it his entire career. Calling him a patron isn't quite right.

Agree with Fred though that Lance deserves praise for helping bring the Quiznos Classic and pro cycling back to Colorado. I just think the name is awful and it should have been called the Colorado Classic. Hopefully Lance's impending indictment and other troubles won't hurt the race in the future. But as the old saying goes, it's the Tour that makes the riders, not the other way around. I imagine this race will be the same.

Hopefully the Colorado race will also push the Californians to use more of their grand scenery.

Interesting what LA says about race radios. Maybe after reading this forum he's now against them.

 

[Velocentric]

Lance represents cycling. Cycling needs a patron. Someday there will be another patron.

I'm sorry, what? Lance 'represents' Cycling?

 

[The Hitch]

patron?
I think more descriptive term would be "Godfather"
tell me the difference please

Godfather is traced back via Mario Puzo to Sicilian criminals.

Patron is Spanish for boss and is a title given to the most powerful latin american narcotraficantes, most famously to El patron himself - Pablo Escobar.

Lance is more of an el patron because 1 many godfathers would never touch drugs (too risky) and 2 el patrons famously hide themselves behind charity.

 

[flicker]

Godfather is traced back via Mario Puzo to Sicilian criminals.

Patron is Spanish for boss and is a title given to the most powerful latin american narcotraficantes, most famously to El patron himself - Pablo Escobar.

In cycling I refer to patron as the leader of the peloton. Like Eddy, Hinault,Lance.
I wish that Alberto could have been the new patron or Alejandro Valverde, but they are smudged at this time.
In the vacuum I still refer to Lance as the patron. I know it is weird because he is not riding, but he still gets more interest and press then any current rider in the USA. Very,very weird.

I guess we can only hope that Eddys' guy Gilbert can become the patron.

 

[Velocentric]

I wish that Alberto could have been the new patron or Alejandro Valverde, but they are smudged at this time.

Wow. Just. Wow. Lance isn't 'smudged'? Really?

In the vacuum I still refer to Lance as the patron. I know it is weird because he is not riding, but he still gets more interest and press then any current rider in the USA..

And we all know that cycling doesn't exist outside of the USA.

 

[Semper Fidelis]

Well of course Lance is going to uphold the omerta, he's done it his entire career. Calling him a patron isn't quite right.

Agree with Fred though that Lance deserves praise for helping bring the Quiznos Classic and pro cycling back to Colorado. I just think the name is awful and it should have been called the Colorado Classic. Hopefully Lance's impending indictment and other troubles won't hurt the race in the future. But as the old saying goes, it's the Tour that makes the riders, not the other way around. I imagine this race will be the same.

Hopefully the Colorado race will also push the Californians to use more of their grand scenery.

Interesting what LA says about race radios. Maybe after reading this forum he's now against them.

You must have stock in Jared's subway!

I agree that the toasted sandwich shop name is not very appealing. Since I have not looked much into the route does it have some of the Coors Classic routes involved? That would be great.

 

[auscyclefan94]

Sorry just had to start this i couldnt believe the quote today

Armstrong said. “But it's at a sensitive state right now. Other sports have a done a good job ignoring whatever issue they may or may not have; or dealing with it internally, or dealing with it through a players' union or teams' union or governing body.”

''Our [issues] most of the time play out in the public eye, [with] people popping off in the press. As long as that kind of anarchy exists we'll never move forward. It's easy for people to use the UCI as a sort of whipping boy … To me, there is total lack of solidarity or unity when it comes to the athlete and the team. Whether it's entry to races, or race radios, there will still be issues.”

So I guess according to lance we should ignore doping and/or deal with it behind closed doors (meaning pay off the uci for a cover up).

 

[Martin318is]

Weird,
I came away from that article agreeing with him. Note that during the bit about keeping stuff out of the media he does NOT mention doping. He is talking about the other stuff that frankly hurts cycling too such as the race radio debates, whinging about stage routes, and the biggies such as the composition of the ProTour and who gets race invites etc.

I think he is right. In other sports these things are solved by people sitting in rooms and discussing it and not moving on until they then present a united front to the media. In cycling they agree something and then all get out there like snipers shooting each other down and blaming everybody else. The team managers are as much at fault for the state of the sport in some cases as the UCI and ASO etc.

The only sport I know of that is near as bad in that regard is Forumla One.

Clearly the guy promotes the idea of keeping drug conversations quiet, but that wasnt what he was talking about here.

 

[auscyclefan94]

Weird,
I came away from that article agreeing with him. Note that during the bit about keeping stuff out of the media he does NOT mention doping. He is talking about the other stuff that frankly hurts cycling too such as the race radio debates, whinging about stage routes, and the biggies such as the composition of the ProTour and who gets race invites etc.

I think he is right. In other sports these things are solved by people sitting in rooms and discussing it and not moving on until they then present a united front to the media. In cycling they agree something and then all get out there like snipers shooting each other down and blaming everybody else. The team managers are as much at fault for the state of the sport in some cases as the UCI and ASO etc.

The only sport I know of that is near as bad in that regard is Forumla One.

Clearly the guy promotes the idea of keeping drug conversations quiet, but that wasnt what he was talking about here.

I disagree, I think he was very much hinting doping especially when he was asked about the FDA investigation. If it is not out in the public as well then people will never start believing that cycling is cleaner than it was therefore people will walk away from the sport and that is never a good thing.

 

[BotanyBay]

Martin318,

If we were dealing with a non-corrupt governing body, I'd agree with both of you... But we're not.

 

[Martin318is]

I disagree, I think he was very much hinting doping especially when he was asked about the FDA investigation. If it is not out in the public as well then people will never start believing that cycling is cleaner than it was therefore people will walk away from the sport and that is never a good thing.

The conversation was in two parts - one was about his attitude to the investigation, the other was about cycling in general and how the sport handles itself

 

[auscyclefan94]

The conversation was in two parts - one was about his attitude to the investigation, the other was about cycling in general and how the sport handles itself

I understand that but I still think he is reffering to doping in that. All he cares about his himslef and his reputation. It is all a load of bs.

How the sport handles itself obviously includes doping.