Teams & Riders Arnaud De Lie’s Hips Don’t Lie Discussion Thread

[Valv.Piti]

The hype was surreal after what he did in Omloop so I think its natural for people to get a bit disappointed/expect more. Ill reserve judgement until he actually does well in the real hard cobbled classics (E3, Flanders and Roubaix). For now he's hard to judge, but there's no doubt he will win lots and lots of races due to his characteristics. For now its no shame though, when the best riders go everyone but 3 of them get completely blown out of the water.

 

[DaLong]

Not him or anyone close to him or anyone with some sort of brain has said this. And if you believe other people saying that it's on you honestly.

He has had 1 bad race and that was MSR and people who actually thought he could already win that were simply clueless. He had never put out the watts you need to win MSR. Probably could've done a bit better than he did if he didn't get sick a few days before, but he was never going to be close to winning.

And there's obviously also a chance that he peaked for the opening weekend.

What are you, Arnaud's dad? The dude couldn't get up a slow ascent of the Cipressa, that's not a bad race - that's not belonging. A bad race would've been to get dropped at the base of the Poggio like old man Sagan did. Let's just say he was sick as you allude to and hope his results improve in Dwars/P-R as I originally said.

 

[tobydawq]

What are you, Arnaud's dad? The dude couldn't get up a slow ascent of the Cipressa, that's not a bad race - that's not belonging. A bad race would've been to get dropped at the base of the Poggio like old man Sagan did. Let's just say he was sick as you allude to and hope his results improve in Dwars/P-R as I originally said.

A guy who could out-survive Mads Pedersen to win a stage in Bessèges (where he had to shut everything down by himself - and even made an attack that didn't last in the finale) does probably not have the bottom of the Cipressa as his max in that race.

It was a surprisingly poor performance but he has shown other things that prove that that is not his true level.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

I didn't know De Lie's mom was a Danish maths teacher!

 

[tobydawq]

I didn't know De Lie's mom was a Danish maths teacher!

I didn't know Remco, Van Aert and Van Wilder were siblings!

 

[Samamba]

What are you, Arnaud's dad? The dude couldn't get up a slow ascent of the Cipressa, that's not a bad race - that's not belonging. A bad race would've been to get dropped at the base of the Poggio like old man Sagan did. Let's just say he was sick as you allude to and hope his results improve in Dwars/P-R as I originally said.

God you're weird. A just turned 21 year old who dropped just before the top of the Cipressa, Oh no disgusting performance. He's almost 80 kilo's, he's far from a good climber. He's really good at short hills for someone his age, not at 10min hills.

A guy who could out-survive Mads Pedersen to win a stage in Bessèges (where he had to shut everything down by himself - and even made an attack that didn't last in the finale) does probably not have the bottom of the Cipressa as his max in that race.

It was a surprisingly poor performance but he has shown other things that prove that that is not his true level.

I said it before MSR and I'll say it again. What does a 800m hill after a short stage have anything to do with doing the Cipressa, a 10 min effort, and Poggio, a 6min effort, after 270km? Absolutely nothing. People making him one of the favorites for MSR after Besseges were on something.

De Lie literally got dropped on easier climbs than the Cipressa in that stage he won on his own in Besseges. In a pretty week field too. His w/kg's on anything more than 5min isn't special. His sprint watts after a hard race and his 1-2min efforts are impressive tho, which he showed in Omloop.

 

[DaLong]

God you're weird. A just turned 21 year old who dropped just before the top of the Cipressa, Oh no disgusting performance. He's almost 80 kilo's, he's far from a good climber. He's really good at short hills for someone his age, not at 10min hills.



I said it before MSR and I'll say it again? What does have a 800m hill after a short stage have anything to do with doing the Cipressa, a 10 min effort, and Poggio, a 6min effort, after 270km?

De Lie literally got dropped on easier climbs than the Cipressa in that stage he won on his own in Besseges. In a pretty week field too. His w/kg's on anything more than 5min isn't special. His sprint watts after a hard race and his 1-2min efforts are impressive tho, which he showed in Omloop.

I am going to stop engaging but now that is three insults levied my way: clueless, without a brain, and weird.

• Keep criticism constructive! If you disagree with an opinion, explain why, but never attack the person.

Also, I am going to block you for this very reason as well incase moderation doesn't happen. I don't deserve to have multiple attacks levied at me for visiting a message board.

 

[Samamba]

I am going to stop engaging but now that is three insults levied my way: clueless, without a brain, and weird.

• Keep criticism constructive! If you disagree with an opinion, explain why, but never attack the person.

Literally never said "without a brain" and "clueless" directly to you, literally never. Don't know why you're freaking out lol. Go ahead with the block tho.

And yes you starting with the whole Arnaud's dad thing is weird, it's also somewhat attacking the person btw...

 

[tobydawq]

God you're weird. A just turned 21 year old who dropped just before the top of the Cipressa, Oh no disgusting performance. He's almost 80 kilo's, he's far from a good climber. He's really good at short hills for someone his age, not at 10min hills.



I said it before MSR and I'll say it again. What does a 800m hill after a short stage have anything to do with doing the Cipressa, a 10 min effort, and Poggio, a 6min effort, after 270km? Absolutely nothing. People making him one of the favorites for MSR after Besseges were on something.

De Lie literally got dropped on easier climbs than the Cipressa in that stage he won on his own in Besseges. In a pretty week field too. His w/kg's on anything more than 5min isn't special. His sprint watts after a hard race and his 1-2min efforts are impressive tho, which he showed in Omloop.

Of course it has everything to do with each other. You'll find the best in the world at one of those things will also be the best at the other.

I was on nothing, I can assure you (unless beer counts).

 

[Samamba]

Of course it has everything to do with each other. You'll find the best in the world at one of those things will also be the best at the other.

Lol whut?

Huge difference between 1min efforts and 10min efforts, definitely uphill for heavy guys.

His watts literally tell the story, I don't get what you're trying to argue. Like I said before MSR, he needed to put out his absolute best watts to have a chance at surviving. A bit less and he would drop on the Cipressa already, and he did. His watts weren't bad, but not super either. On a super day, he maybe could've made it to the first big group, but winning? Never had a chance.

 

[tobydawq]

Lol whut?

Huge difference between 1min efforts and 10min efforts, definitely uphill for heavy guys.

Okay, so De Lie will be the only elite cobbled climb rider not able to survive the Cipressa during his career?

 

[Samamba]

Okay, so De Lie will be the only elite cobbled climb rider not able to survive the Cipressa during his career?

Not what I'm saying lol, see my edit.
HE'S 21 YEARS OLD????
Why are you putting words into my mouth. He will get better at it obviously. Ofcourse he will be able too. It was his first time ever.

I think you underestimate current MSR.

I would agree if he would have that bad day in a race like GW or DDV, but he didn't have a bad day on Sunday and I'm pretty sure he'll be good tmrw. I do think placement will be a problem. Those races suit him perfectly already.

 

[tobydawq]

Not what I'm saying lol, see my edit.
HE'S 21 YEARS OLD????
Why are you putting words into my mouth. He will get better at it obviously. Ofcourse he will be able too. It was his first time ever.

Alright, but age is not a real argument. Pogacar won the Tour at 21, after all.

I'm not into analysing data, I find it a waste of time, so if that disqualifiws me from this discussing, then fair enough.

I see what I see in races, and I certainly had not seen anything that would make it impossible for him to survive Cipressa (much less in a race where it was ridden so softly that even Sagan could survive). I would not have said he would match Van der Poel on the Poggio and win in such a fashion but saying there was no chance at all seems a bit silly. Unless one assumed that the race would go as it did which only left the winning door open for very few riders.

 

[Samamba]

Alright, but age is not a real argument. Pogacar won the Tour at 21, after all.

I'm not into analysing data, I find it a waste of time, so if that disqualifiws me from this discussing, then fair enough.

I see what I see in races, and I certainly had not seen anything that would make it impossible for him to survive Cipressa (much less in a race where it was ridden so softly that even Sagan could survive). I would not have said he would match Van der Poel on the Poggio and win in such a fashion but saying there was no chance at all seems a bit silly. Unless one assumed that the race would go as it did which only left the winning door open for very few riders.

Well I did assume it wouldn't be a sprint from a big group (as it was clear that there would be a serious tailwind), hence why I said absolutely no chance. Like i mentioned above, on a super day (meaning putting out his best watts, or even exceeding them) he couldve made it to the first bigger group, but he definitely wasn't on a super day. I was kind of expecting him to drop on Cipressa cause he was already struggling in Besseges on 6-8min hills. So no I never understood why people thought he was going to win MSR, there was no reason to believe he could. Gent-Wevelgem or something like I could understand, but MSR, no.

The age thing is a perfect argument. It's not cause there's some freaks of nature right now that everyone with top potential is going to be at top level at 21 years old (or are we going to say Sheffield is doing dissapointing now cause he got dropped on Sunday?). De Lie didn't even know what a power meter was 3 years ago, never did an altitude camp in his life and never measured his food before this year. He isn't a finished product, at all. The kid has massive potential in flemish classics and yes also a race like MSR, AGR would be max. People (in media) who said he is Boonen and Gilbert in one are dumb. He's not. He's way too heavy to do good in a LBL.

I am going to leave it at this. I was originally reacting (in a pretty normal way imo) cause someone was laughing at the kid having a bit of fun on the Kemmel, while obviously not knowing he had 3 flats that day. I don't get why it was necessary to make a negative comment about someone having fun with the crowd. And then I don't get why he was freaking out while I never quoted him till he started being annoying with the "Arnauds dad" comment. My 'without a brain' and 'clueless' comments were directed at media overhyping him on purpose based on performances in a .1 race cause they just think about the clicks their articles get.

 

[Gratemans]

I think it was Dalong who kinda blew up this page by first going pretty agressively at De Lie's performance, and Samamba didn't notice it wasnt Toby that was being so hard on De Lie. Anyway.... I can get both your points but I lean towards Samamba. I mean, taking Pogacar as a baseline for a 21-year old cyclist's level? That just doesn't make sense.
De Lie couldn't manage MSR at 21, so what? That guy is gonna take a lot of races still to come.

(I don't think he's ever going to win Milan-San Remo though: not every sprinter that can survive a hill, can survive any hill. And with the current peloton, MSR isn't going to be a monument for the sprinters for the next couple of years I feel.)

 

[Samamba]

Fractured left collarbone. He was going to break something sooner than later with the amount of crashes he's involved in.

Dunkerque is cursed for him.

EDIT: looks like it's even worse... will be out for some time

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1658568916388532251

View: https://twitter.com/lotto_dstny/status/1658568916388532251

 

[Rob5091]

Shame to hear about De Lie's crash - he's a real talent, but now Ewan needs to step up and earn his keep.