Teams & Riders Arnaud De Lie is De Truth Discussion Thread

[Salvarani]

Lotto should put everything they can behind De Lie. He is the team now.

They might have the best classics talent for the next decade and he can sprint. Climb a little bit as well.

They also have one of the best development teams at the moment and could easily promote 2-3 riders every year to feed the team with new hungry riders that can get results outside of De Lie.

Just gotta make sure the support cast is decent/good. De Lie already showing he can do a lot on his own. Yesterdays performance was MVDP-esque at his best.

 

[Berniece]

Cause the sponsors are only there because of Remco lol.

Yes, and QS was reaaaally strong yesterday. Impressive. He would've had so much help. Ofcourse he would have more support at the superteams, but there's also enough downsides at riding for one of them as a young Walloon.

What is your fetish with QS and Remco? Because I never even mentioned them in my initial post and you drag them into the discussion.

I just think that if De Lie will grow as a rider and becomes one of the best riders in the world, that I can’t see him stay at Lotto. Because to win De Ronde, Amstel Gold Race and green jerseys, Lotto doesn’t have the team to support all of that and increase his chances. Unless they also get more money and are able to grow the team with him.

 

[Samamba]

What is your fetish with QS and Remco? Because I never even mentioned them in my initial post and you drag them into the discussion.

I just think that if De Lie will grow as a rider and becomes one of the best riders in the world, that I can’t see him stay at Lotto. Because to win De Ronde, Amstel Gold Race and green jerseys, Lotto doesn’t have the team to support all of that and increase his chances. Unless they also get more money and are able to grow the team with him.

Fetish? The discussion literally was about wanting De Lie going to QS so obviously you need to take into account Remco. QS basically is Remco at the moment. Everything resolves around him, and rightfully so, they have a potential Belgian Tour winner in their team. The sponsors are there for him, support the guy. I would have a completely different opinion if Remco wasn't riding at QS, that's the whole point.

Yeah just like Van der Poels team right? It was so incredibly strong when he won those big races. Not everyone can race for Jumbo. I wouldn't be surprised if De Lie takes over from Van Aert in the far future, but he still has 4 years on his contract.

 

[Netserk]

What is your fetish with QS and Remco? Because I never even mentioned them in my initial post and you drag them into the discussion.

I just think that if De Lie will grow as a rider and becomes one of the best riders in the world, that I can’t see him stay at Lotto. Because to win De Ronde, Amstel Gold Race and green jerseys, Lotto doesn’t have the team to support all of that and increase his chances. Unless they also get more money and are able to grow the team with him.

And MvdP can't stay at Alpecin?

 

[Berniece]

Fetish? The discussion literally was about wanting De Lie going to QS so obviously you need to take into account Remco. QS basically is Remco at the moment. Everything resolves around him, and rightfully so, they have a potential Belgian Tour winner in their team. The sponsors are there for him, support the guy. I would have a completely different opinion if Remco wasn't riding at QS, that's the whole point.

Yeah just like Van der Poels team right? It was so incredibly strong when he won those big races. Not everyone can race for Jumbo. I wouldn't be surprised if De Lie takes over from Van Aert in the far future, but he still has 4 years on his contract.

No, I was just talking about bigger teams, you start coming in with QS.

Also De Lie is no MVDP, no one is. MVDP is, imo, the best rider in the world when he is at 100%. I can never see him lose a classic against De Lie, not even with De Lie at Jumbo. But we’ll see what the future brings for him, he might not need a decent team around it, but I doubt it.

 

[Netserk]

Can Girmay stay with Intermarché?

 

[Red Rick]

De Lie to QS Soudal makes 0 sense. They aren't even doing well in cobbled races and they're basically transitioning away to a GT team around Evenepoel.

If he goes to another team, it should be one where he can immediately be the leader of an otherwise solid team with depth. Say Bahrain or Ineos, who have good teams for these races but no winner for these.

 

[Red Rick]

No, I was just talking about bigger teams, you start coming in with QS.

Also De Lie is no MVDP, no one is. MVDP is, imo, the best rider in the world when he is at 100%. I can never see him lose a classic against De Lie, not even with De Lie at Jumbo. But we’ll see what the future brings for him, he might not need a decent team around it, but I doubt it.

MvdP doesn't stay away like Van Baarle because Jumbo would chase him. And this is Jumbo without Van Aert.

I'm reluctant to put De Lie in my top 3 for de Ronde though. De Ronde is much harder.

 

[Samamba]

No, I was just talking about bigger teams, you start coming in with QS.

Also De Lie is no MVDP, no one is. MVDP is, imo, the best rider in the world when he is at 100%. I can never see him lose a classic against De Lie, not even with De Lie at Jumbo. But we’ll see what the future brings for him, he might not need a decent team around it, but I doubt it.

Dude you literally quoted someone who said De Lie to Soudal QS...

Yeah and you also thought he would be dropped like a brick on the Muur yesterday. No he will never be as explosive as VdP on the hills, that's true.

 

[Samamba]

I'm reluctant to put De Lie in my top 3 for de Ronde though. De Ronde is much harder.

He isn't riding.

Well as of right now, if he goes on like this they'll probably change that as they don't have anyone else anyways. Just drop Brabantse Pijl after Paris Roubaix and ride RVV.

Agree that he's not ready for a top 3 in RVV tho.

 

[yaco]

DeLie has no reason to leave Lotto - He'll have a team built around him, will earn good dollars and of course being Belgian in a Belgian team has its own rewards.

 

[Bonimenier]

DeLie has no reason to leave Lotto - He'll have a team built around him, will earn good dollars and of course being Belgian in a Belgian team has its own rewards.

I don't find any of the 3 reasons you named convincing. Teams with more money can built atleast as a team as good, if not better around him for the classics. He can earn more money at them. Not sure riding for a Belgian team is more beneficial for a Belgian rider, definitely not pressurewise. And even if it was, there are several other Belgian teams who are WT unlike Lotto.

 

[yaco]

I don't find any of the 3 reasons you named convincing. Teams with more money can built atleast as a team as good, if not better around him for the classics. He can earn more money at them. Not sure riding for a Belgian team is more beneficial for a Belgian rider, definitely not pressurewise. And even if it was, there are several other Belgian teams who are WT unlike Lotto.

Intermarche is built around Ghirmay, while Alpecin is built around MVP and I doubt LeFevre will have the budget, so there goes your Belgium teams - WT status is irrelevant when you are riding Classics for a Belgian team, after all it never stopped MVP at Alpecin.

 

[Bonimenier]

Intermarche is built around Ghirmay, while Alpecin is built around MVP and I doubt LeFevre will have the budget, so there goes your Belgium teams - WT status is irrelevant when you are riding Classics for a Belgian team, after all it never stopped MVP at Alpecin.

Lefevere quite literally said he wants De Lie and "2 years is over before you know it" about his contract in an interview in January, so I wouldn't rule out the possibility of it.

 

[Boes]

De Lie to QS Soudal makes 0 sense. They aren't even doing well in cobbled races and they're basically transitioning away to a GT team around Evenepoel.

It'll depend on budget I guess. De Lie with Asgreen, Lampaert and Senechal should do just fine in cobble classics.
My guess is De Lie's wage probably woun't be any higher then Alaphilippe's wage?

So extra budget for Remco's tour team and Alaphilippe out and de Lie in. It could happen. I'm not saying it should though.

 

[Samamba]

De Lie with Asgreen, Lampaert and Senechal should do just fine in cobble classics.

I honestly don't understand how people can say this after the last year and this weekend.

Lampaert is overrated anyways, apart from being a really good Roubaix rider and a short TT specialist.

I do agree that Lotto should probably find one extra decent to good rider for these kind of races, but there aren't that many on the market at the end of this season. Senechal is one of them I guess. Naesen too, but he's getting old.

Lotto probably also counts on Segaert in the future who should be really good alongside De Lie, but he'll need a bit more time. They don't have an old team tho. Apart from Frison they will all still get stronger every year. People often forget dat a team like Jumbo is a team fill of riders in their prime. After all Lotto was already way stronger than past years this weekend. In Omloop it was really good till the Muur as a team, and in Kuurne they had 5 out of their 7 riders in the first peloton. De Lie himself just wasn't good enough today to follow the best. Only Jumbo and Bahrain probably did better this weekend

Lefevere quite literally said he wants De Lie and "2 years is over before you know it" about his contract in an interview in January, so I wouldn't rule out the possibility of it.

So basically... he didn't LITERALLY say it? And ofcourse he wants him, everyone wants him. Doesn't mean he'll be able to pay him what Lotto will (there's just no way they won't put extra money in, Ridley too) knowning Remco should still be prime focus then.

Not that I'm rulling out the possibility. I'm pretty sure he'll either stay at Lotto or go to QS indeed. I don't see him as a guy that goes to UAE or Bahrain for example and Jumbo still has Van Aert. I wouldn't be surprised if he steps in Van Aerts footsteps at some point tho.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

IF Lefevere were to get De Lie, basically they could let Alaphilippe, Jakobsen and Merlier go. If you already have Evenepoel and De Lie, there is much overlap with those three so that you could basically do away with 3 big contracts and get 1 instead. I'm sure De Lie would not earn as much as those three combined, so extra budget would be free to invest in support riders for both leaders and so he could have his undisputed classics/sprinter Boonen-like rider for cobbles and sprints, while focussing on GT's with Evenepoel.

 

[Samamba]

IF Lefevere were to get De Lie, basically they could let Alaphilippe, Jakobsen and Merlier go. If you already have Evenepoel and De Lie, there is much overlap with those three so that you could basically do away with 3 big contracts and get 1 instead. I'm sure De Lie would not earn as much as those three combined, so extra budget would be free to invest in support riders for both leaders and so he could have his undisputed classics/sprinter Boonen-like rider for cobbles and sprints, while focussing on GT's with Evenepoel.

Will Evenepoel like that De Lie is a focus in a possible Tour? And will De Lie like that he won't get a full team in support there? He's no Van Aert in that sense. And De Lie will be riding the Tour from 2024 onwards.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

Will Evenepoel like that De Lie is a focus in a possible Tour? And will De Lie like that he won't get a full team in support there? He's no Van Aert in that sense. And De Lie will be riding the Tour from 2024 onwards.

I think De Lie and Evenepoel will be a lot more compatible than Jakobsen and Evenepoel for instance. I think De Lie does not necessarily need a 4 man train/leadout, and in fact is strong enough if ever needed, to help out Evenepoel for GC. I think a support team for both riders would be a lot more homogenous than now having a dedicated sprint train which is basically useless for Evenepoel or the other way around. Van Aert/Roglic is a good example of how it could work, with a support team like that of Jumbo Visma it should be able to work.

But i am not a psychic so i can not say whether either of them would like that situation.

 

[Samamba]

I think De Lie and Evenepoel will be a lot more compatible than Jakobsen and Evenepoel for instance. I think De Lie does not necessarily need a 4 man train/leadout, and in fact is strong enough if ever needed, to help out Evenepoel for GC. I think a support team for both riders would be a lot more homogenous than now having a dedicated sprint train which is basically useless for Evenepoel or the other way around. Van Aert/Roglic is a good example of how it could work, with a support team like that of Jumbo Visma it should be able to work.

But i am not a psychic so i can not say whether either of them would like that situation.

I agree that it would be more compatible than with a Jakobsen for example (that's just an absolute no go) but I don't agree that De Lie doesn't need a good leadout train. Placing is still a huge weakness for him, and definitely in real bunch sprints. The comparison with Van Aert is just not there. I wouldn't even call Van Aert a sprinter. He's the best allrounder in the world. De Lie isn't the best rouleur and he is too heavy to become a decent climber. I see him more as a Kritsoff type in that sense. If Remco really wants to win the Tour, I don't think there's a spot for a sprinter that needs like 3 guys around him atleast. Or not in a team like QS that can't just buy leadout riders that are also really good for a GC rider, like Laporte for example.

Anyways it's too early to tell anyways. I expect Lotto trying to come up with money (either extra from sponsors or hoping Ewan wants to get out of his contract) this year and try to extend his contract till '26. If it doesn't happen by the end of the year, then I'll start worrying.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

I agree that it would be more compatable than with a Jakobsen for example but I don't agree that De Lie doesn't need a good leadout train. Placing is still a huge weakness for him, and definitely in real bunch sprints. The comparison with Van Aert is just not there. I wouldn't even call Van Aert a sprinter. He's the best allrounder in the world. De Lie isn't the best rouleur and he is too heavy to become a decent climber. I see him more as a Kritsoff type in that sense. If Remco really wants to win the Tour, I don't think there's a spot for a sprinter that needs like 3 guys around him atleast. Or not in a team like QS that can't just buy leadout riders that are also really good for a GC rider, like Laporte for example.

Yes, i'm sure he can't climb like Van Aert, but already at age 20, you can see he has a huge engine and can dominate on a classics parcours far beyond how even the best Kristoff ever has. Perhaps something of a faster Bo Hagen would be more apt. And i'm sure he will learn a lot the next two years when it comes to positioning. I'm also not saying he shouldn't get a leadout, i'm simply suggesting he may not need a "dedicated" train. Evenepoel also needs two guys to help out on the flat, and those guys could help De Lie into a sprint final.

 

[DaLong]

I don't want to throw out comparisons as I am not good enough at that sort of thing to be proficient...but one thing is for sure, we will learn A LOT about this kid this spring. If he can get over the Poggio with the lead group, he is certainly going to draw comparisons to another 6'0", 170 lb puncheur that's in his last year. Needs to polish his bike handling first though, for sure.

 

[frisenfruitig]

What's wrong with his bike handling skills?

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

What's wrong with his bike handling skills?

Point was made that he crashes a lot.

 

[frisenfruitig]

Eh, I don't think we have seen enough of him to say whether he has poor bike handling skills. Could just be back luck.