At what point did cycling become "clean"?

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Dazed and Confused said:
Fwiw, I do think the doctors are part of the root problem in the sport.
^^ This. If not part of the root problem, then at minimum they are enablers, and big ones.

There are a few professional groups that will pull out whatever ethical/professional conduct/oversight card suits them in a particular arena. Physicians are one.

BTW - this is not some form of hate on for physicians in general.
 
Apr 2, 2013
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What do you guys think of doctors prescribing actovegin? One of those products that's just on the border I guess.
 
Oct 17, 2011
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spiROZE said:
What do you guys think of doctors prescribing actovegin? One of those products that's just on the border I guess.
Well tbh it's not a officially banned substance so if I was a pro rider I would just take it.
 
spiROZE said:
What do you guys think of doctors prescribing actovegin? One of those products that's just on the border I guess.
That is not in the border, Actovegin is a clear advantage and is ilegal. it is a substance with really risk to be used, even in the cycling more clean, becouse in others cyclings is typical substance.
 
Sep 29, 2012
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The irony of the inexplicable "peloton is cleaner", "new generation" mantra offered up by Sky fans and other conflict of interest parties must surely be confounded with the following logic.

Which applies equally to the 2006, 2008 and 2011 (and let's face it 1999) "new generation" / "stopped doping". claims.

According to the Mirror, Wiggins said: "The needle ban is fantastic but at the [recent] Dauphiné [race] there was no sign of it being policed.

"It would be great on the Tour [de France] if they actually raided teams to see if they were toeing the line. Medical people in our team are adamant other teams are still using syringes for recovery.

"People who have a history of this sort of stuff aren't going to just suddenly say ‘OK, that's the law now, we'll stop'" he added.

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/uci-cannot-use-spot-checks-to-enforce-no-needles-policy
So let me get this straight: if it becomes a law / rule that you can't do something, people are not going to stop.

But somehow, magically, despite being "law" for years, the peloton has stopped doping.

Gotcha.
 
Race Radio said:
You would be in the minority. Say that to pretty much any US Pro who knows Phil and you would likely be laughed at.
I didn't say he definately is, only that his statement raises a doubt in my mind.
My coment was based purely on his statement that he finds hanging onto a car to be a worse crime than doping.
It's an odd thing for him to say, no? Clean or not, it raises the question as to his general attitude towards doping...
 
Dear Wiggo said:
The irony of the inexplicable "peloton is cleaner", "new generation" mantra offered up by Sky fans and other conflict of interest parties must surely be confounded with the following logic.

Which applies equally to the 2006, 2008 and 2011 (and let's face it 1999) "new generation" / "stopped doping". claims.



So let me get this straight: if it becomes a law / rule that you can't do something, people are not going to stop.

But somehow, magically, despite being "law" for years, the peloton has stopped doping.

Gotcha.
The term you are looking for to explain this type of behaviour is "skylogic"
 
Archibald said:
I didn't say he definately is, only that his statement raises a doubt in my mind.
My coment was based purely on his statement that he finds hanging onto a car to be a worse crime than doping.
It's an odd thing for him to say, no? Clean or not, it raises the question as to his general attitude towards doping...
Nah. I am anti-doping, but the car thing would be worse in my mind as well. Hanging on to a car and being blasted up a mountainside while coasting is even more 'in your face' than if you were pedalling a bike with a motor in it ;)

I don't think Phil is saying doping is OK, I think he is saying the car towing is just that much worse!
 
May 26, 2010
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doping or hanging on to cars is the same thing. cheating. if someone is going to hang onto a car they will dope.

to distinguish between the levels of cheating is pathetic. cheating crosses a line in sport and it doesn't matter how the line is crossed.
 
Jan 30, 2014
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Benotti69 said:
doping or hanging on to cars is the same thing. cheating. if someone is going to hang onto a car they will dope.

to distinguish between the levels of cheating is pathetic. cheating crosses a line in sport and it doesn't matter how the line is crossed.
You're so wrong, I'm sure Chris Froome was kicked out of a race for hanging onto a car and he would definitely NEVER dop..... ahh never mind, as you were
 
Jul 21, 2012
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Benotti69 said:
doping or hanging on to cars is the same thing. cheating. if someone is going to hang onto a car they will dope.

to distinguish between the levels of cheating is pathetic. cheating crosses a line in sport and it doesn't matter how the line is crossed.
Drafting behind the team car is as bad as doping then? Everyone that does it should be banned for 2 years?
 
May 26, 2010
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the sceptic said:
Drafting behind the team car is as bad as doping then? Everyone that does it should be banned for 2 years?
cheating is cheating is cheating......hanging onto cars was what i posted.
 
yeah, I don't know...
getting beaten by a doper and having your podium spot nicked and your bonus lowered, OR some gits back in the autobus hanging onto a car that you don't really need to be too concerned about when you're at the pointy end of the field...
which would p**s you off more?

it's not like the car hanger-onerers were getting a free ride to win the stages or overall were they?
 
Sep 29, 2012
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Archibald said:
it's not like the car hanger-onerers were getting a free ride to win the stages or overall were they?
Cavendish did, perhaps once? But otherwise could not agree more.
 
Dear Wiggo said:
Cavendish did, perhaps once? But otherwise could not agree more.
who's been guilty of "sticky bottles" and the like when in the grupetto, and at the same time wanting to punch the sh** out of the likes of Ricco for setting ridiculous cut-off times with dope fuelled mountain stage wins...
 
Archibald said:
yeah, I don't know...
getting beaten by a doper and having your podium spot nicked and your bonus lowered, OR some gits back in the autobus hanging onto a car that you don't really need to be too concerned about when you're at the pointy end of the field...
which would p**s you off more?

it's not like the car hanger-onerers were getting a free ride to win the stages or overall were they?
Actually ... one of the accused (by multiple parties) placed 5th overall.

So normally, yes, the hangers on are at the back. Apparently in San Luis, some were at the front. And it was being ignored by race marshals. That's why Phil was getting his knicks in a twist.
 
Mar 25, 2013
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Benotti69 said:
doping or hanging on to cars is the same thing. cheating. if someone is going to hang onto a car they will dope.

to distinguish between the levels of cheating is pathetic. cheating crosses a line in sport and it doesn't matter how the line is crossed.
Benotti69 said:
Yes. It crosses the line of external assistance, but as with lots of cheating in the sport a blind eye is turned towards it.
Sigh.

Luis Suarez must be a doper by your ridiculous logic.
 
Mar 25, 2013
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The Hitch said:
What's ridiculous about saying one of the worlds best in the most prestigious sport in the world - one that has no real testing, might be doping?
You can say it if you wish but the logic behind it can be questioned if it's done on this lines. Saying guys are dopers due to hanging on to cars or the stickybottle incidents is an absurd way of coming to that conclusion.

The reference to Suarez is an incident where he dived at Stoke. Pires was a serial diver in his time. The same now with Ashley Young. I'm drawing comparison with football and cheating incidents. Should we call these dopers on the back of it? Benotti draws no distinction and says it's directly linked to saying that guys would dope as a result.

Agree with your point on the testing.
 
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