Basso and Nibali, united and divided by the Giro and Tour

[Zam_Olyas]

Liquigas-Cannondale is focusing on the grand tours and classics for the 2012 season. Ivan Basso and Vincenzo Nibali are the captains assigned the task of hunting down the big stage races, and their main goal is the Giro d’Italia and Tour de France respectively. However this choice does not rule them out of competing in both: if the team decides that Basso and Nibali are to focus their efforts on one of the two races, it is still undecided if the Varese rider will be at the Tour or if the Sicilian will compete in the Giro. Liquigas-Cannondale wants to assess the performance and condition of the two riders over the coming months before making any decisions. The rest of the season’s programme for Basso and Nibali will only be scheduled once this has been finalised.



The classics will feature prominently on the calendar for Peter Sagan, the team’s key rider for the one-day races. The Slovak champion will compete in the Milano-Sanremo and then share the responsibility of performing well in the cobbled classics with Daniel Oss and Elia Viviani (except for the Paris-Roubaix when only Oss will race). Sagan’s biggest goal this summer will then be the Tour de France: after winning three stages at last year’s Vuelta a España (the first Grand Tour of his career), Sagan will endeavour to make his mark on the Grande Boucle.

http://www.teamliquigascannondale.com/2012/eng/main.php?mod=news&m=01&n=0

 

[Panda Claws]

I hope Basso goes for the giro and Nibali for the tour.

So no Sagan trying out the Amstel?

 

[Eshnar]

I'm pretty sure Nibali will go to the Giro as a domestique, and the race will tell if he'll get the chance to do something. Probly Basso will help Nibs at the Tour too, but I don't think so.

 

[The Hitch]

I think Ivan the Terrible will go to the Tour for a stage. I dont see him saving himself for La Vuelta.

 

[taiwan]

There's no point in taking e.g. Nibali to the Giro to ride in support. It'll be obvious pretty quickly whether he's going to be a GC threat or not. If he is he'll be no good for the Tour, and if he isn't he'll be of no tactical use at the Giro.

Same with Basso, he won't be any help at the Tour after riding the Giro FTW.

 

[airstream]

I seriously doubt if a rider is able to be 100% competitive in the Tour even after being only domestique in the Giro nowadays, though sure it's possible to ride, making very very different efforts, as a helper. So I hope Nibali will go only the Tour.

 

[Eshnar]

There's no point in taking e.g. Nibali to the Giro to ride in support. It'll be obvious pretty quickly whether he's going to be a GC threat or not. If he is he'll be no good for the Tour, and if he isn't he'll be of no tactical use at the Giro.

Same with Basso, he won't be any help at the Tour after riding the Giro FTW.

Nibali was very useful in the 2010 Giro. Especially at Aprica

 

[roundabout]

Basso Giro-Tour

Nibali Tour-Vuelta

I personally think that there is about 9km in the whole Vuelta where Basso can make a difference and he will lose more time than that on the garage ramp finishes.

 

[Eshnar]

Basso Giro-Tour

Nibali Tour-Vuelta

I personally think that there is about 9km in the whole Vuelta where Basso can make a difference and he will lose more time than that on the garage ramp finishes.

That's for sure, the Basso 2006 would struggle to make top 10 in this Vuelta.

 

[airstream]

Nibali was very useful in the 2010 Giro. Especially at Aprica

I tnink, they were helpful one to another equally. Basso's contribution into Nibali's 3rd place was not less than Nibali's one into Basso's victory.

 

[taiwan]

Nibali was very useful in the 2010 Giro. Especially at Aprica

There's no point in taking e.g. Nibali to the Giro to ride in support. It'll be obvious pretty quickly whether he's going to be a GC threat or not. If he is he'll be no good for the Tour, and if he isn't he'll be of no tactical use at the Giro.

Same with Basso, he won't be any help at the Tour after riding the Giro FTW.

That would be scenario 'a', in which he cannot perform at the Tour afterwards.

 

[The Hitch]

I seriously doubt if a rider is able to be 100% competitive in the Tour even after being only domestique in the Giro nowadays, though sure it's possible to ride, making very very different efforts, as a helper. So I hope Nibali will go only the Tour.

2008. Menchov 5th Giro, 4th Tour. CVV training Giro, 5th Tour.

2009 Lance 12th Giro 3rd Tour. Wiggins training Giro, 4th Tour.

2010 Insanely hard Giro

2011 Insanely hard Giro

2012 Still very hard, but difficulty limited to about 3 stages at the end. Perhaps it will be possible.

 

[Panda Claws]

I think Basso could still be a good domestique in the tour after going for the GC in the giro.

 

[Eshnar]

That would be scenario 'a' in which he cannot perform at the Tour afterwards.

he could focus on the first week to help Basso survive to the sterrato stage and Lago Laceno. Or on the second or third week alone. He's not forced to prepare for the whole Giro

 

[taiwan]

2008. Menchov 5th Giro, 4th Tour. CVV training Giro, 5th Tour.

2009 Lance 12th Giro 3rd Tour. Wiggins training Giro, 4th Tour.

2010 Insanely hard Giro

2011 Insanely hard Giro

2012 Still very hard, but difficulty limited to about 3 stages at the end. Perhaps it will be possible.

Still If I was Nibali I wouldn't bank on recovering in time for the Tour. And training could just be riding around (although I can't think offhand how these examples rode), whereas domestiques have to work, often at the pointy end of a race.

 

[The Hitch]

That's for sure, the Basso 2006 would struggle to make top 10 in this Vuelta.

Dont a win at Emilia some years back and 4th in Lombardy this year suggest he has some explosion in him for those finishes?

 

[hfer07]

having unveiled all 3 GT's - I believe the only one that Basso & Nibali have a realistic chance to win it is Il Giro. Perhaps Le Tour is more suitable to Nibali, since he's the better TT'er & with less MTF, he'll be fine there to make top 5. La Vuelta to me cannot suit either, since the parcours is more for an explosive rider, which neither of them is to compete against the likes of Anton & JRod.

 

[theyoungest]

Basso Giro-Tour

Nibali Tour-Vuelta

I personally think that there is about 9km in the whole Vuelta where Basso can make a difference and he will lose more time than that on the garage ramp finishes.

Have you seen the Tirreno? Basso went fairly well there on those ramps. Certainly no worse than Nibali.

In his last Vuelta he was one of the strongest on that steep hill where Taaramae came to a complete standstill.

 

[airstream]

2008. Menchov 5th Giro, 4th Tour. CVV training Giro, 5th Tour.

2009 Lance 12th Giro 3rd Tour. Wiggins training Giro, 4th Tour.

2010 Insanely hard Giro

2011 Insanely hard Giro

2012 Still very hard, but difficulty limited to about 3 stages at the end. Perhaps it will be possible.

I agree. But it affected negatively on Menchov. Lance caught the racing rhythm at the Giro rather than helped. Anyway, a compete domestique's work implies putting one's nose to the grindstone otherwise it is someone's training like in the case with Wiggo in 2009 or fight for top-5 like Menchov did in 2008, though initially he is reported to have ridden the Giro as preparation for the Tour. I don't see any other options.

 

[Parrulo]

honestly i don't know what to think. i would like to see nibbles at the tour but i would also like to see him winning a giro

i just don't know lol

one thing is for sure both the tour and the giro have some well placed descents where nibali can entertain us a lot

 

[The Hitch]

having unveiled all 3 GT's - I believe the only one that Basso & Nibali have a realistic chance to win it is Il Giro. Perhaps the Tour is more suitable to Nibali, since he's the better TT'er & with less MTF, he'll be fine there to make top 5. The Vuelta to me cannot suit either, since the parcours is more for an explosive rider, which neither of them is to compete against the likes of Anton & JRod.

Fine to make top 5? In front of who?

Menchov better tter and climber.
Evans better tter and climber.
Wiggins better tter, and not enough mountains.
Samu better tter and climber.
Andrew way better climber, same tter.

Then theres people like Gesink who is probably around the same in tts, JVDB whose not much worse, a few riders who could surprise, maybe also Frank,

And thats assuming Contador who will obviously finish ahead of Nibali otherwise, isnt there.

He can make top 5 but it would require an immense performance.

 

[Eshnar]

Dont a win at Emilia some years back and 4th in Lombardy this year suggest he has some explosion in him for those finishes?

The Emilia was 2004...
About Lombardia, he was by far the strongest on the final climb, but he just hasn't the kick (and he NEVER worked during the race, unlike a lot of rivals). He came 4th but only because Zaugg was far away and the others didn't bother for the final positions.

 

[Zam_Olyas]

honestly i don't know what to think. i would like to see nibbles at the tour but i would also like to see him winning a giro

i just don't know lol

one thing is for sure both the tour and the giro have some well placed descents where nibali can entertain us a lot

somebody will be here in a few minutes to tell u that he is an overated descender and a rider.

 

[Nick C.]

Fine to make top 5? In front of who?

Menchov better tter and climber.
Evans better tter and climber.
Wiggins better tter, and not enough mountains.
Samu better tter and climber.
Andrew way better climber, same tter.

Then theres people like Gesink who is probably around the same in tts, JVDB whose not much worse, a few riders who could surprise, maybe also Frank,

And thats assuming Contador who will obviously finish ahead of Nibali otherwise, isnt there.

He can make top 5 but it would require an immense performance.

I know it's not a 5th but are you completely discounting his 7th in '09 when most if not all of those guys were there and racing?

 

[18-Valve. (pithy)]

That's for sure, the Basso 2006 would struggle to make top 10 in this Vuelta.

Don't be silly, Basso did very well in similarly explosive stage finishes back then.

He wouldn't even have to try to reach the podium, faced with today's competition. His only competition would be Berto.