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Being Pulled from a Race

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Feb 2, 2014
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Nice. I admire him. BUT-From what I know the measurement can't be done a while right after a stage. You have to get a "steady state level". So it means when you finish a Alpe D Huez in 35C of heat they dont do a measurement. You have to wait until you get this steady state condidion, when you are well hydrated etc. Maybe he had developed a perfect way to lower his parameters each day after stage and increase it next day before stage. He is really capable person. If he wanted to do transfusion from his fahter, because he had not enough his own bags of blood, so it means he can afford a much and do a much.

Ah I forgot to tell you that diuretics also make your blood nicer(HCT,HGB). But diuretics are good only in short stages like TimeTrials. If you want to get a furosemide for a 7h moutain stage it will end with thousand of cramps
 
platinum_eagle said:
Nice. I admire him. BUT-From what I know the measurement can't be done a while right after a stage. You have to get a "steady state level". So it means when you finish a Alpe D Huez in 35C of heat they dont do a measurement. You have to wait until you get this steady state condidion, when you are well hydrated etc. Maybe he had developed a perfect way to lower his parameters each day after stage and increase it next day before stage. He is really capable person. If he wanted to do transfusion from his fahter, because he had not enough his own bags of blood, so it means he can afford a much and do a much.

That wasn't the reason. At the time (where he wanted blood from his father) he hadn't transfused (with his own or other's blood) before. When he learned that his father's blood wasn't a perfect match, he then decided to withdraw his own blood.
 
Feb 2, 2014
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Netserk said:
That wasn't the reason. At the time (where he wanted blood from his father) he hadn't transfused (with his own or other's blood) before. When he learned that his father's blood wasn't a perfect match, he then decided to withdraw his own blood.

Ye.. I also read that, but I do not believe it. I like him. But In my opinion that is lying.
 
platinum_eagle said:
"not in the era of jetfuel"
Now the jetfuel is all realated in gene doping and telmisartan mixtures.

you're probably right. still the most of the peloton still use bags. there isn't any test for them. but yeah being that skinny and still healthy to ride a bike in all sorts of conditions for three weeks at amazing wattage, definitely new stuff involved. i wonder how many can afford it...
 
Oct 16, 2010
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platinum_eagle said:
Now the jetfuel is all realated in gene doping and telmisartan mixtures.
interesting.
which teams do you think are into gene doping?

in some thread catwhoorg and/or kingboonen (iirc) recently concluded gene doping is still very unlikely to take place in cycling.
you seem to think it's not unlikely at all?
 
sniper said:
interesting.
which teams do you think are into gene doping?

in some thread catwhoorg and/or kingboonen (iirc) recently concluded gene doping is still very unlikely to take place in cycling.
you seem to think it's not unlikely at all?

have you ever seen laura trott riding 500m time trial-omnium at the olympics? what question is that? i would say chinese 2008 olympics, the start of gene age not 2007.
 
Feb 2, 2014
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sniper said:
interesting.
which teams do you think are into gene doping?

in some thread catwhoorg and/or kingboonen (iirc) recently concluded gene doping is still very unlikely to take place in cycling.
you seem to think it's not unlikely at all?

No. In my opinion gene doping isn't involved in any team in "open way". Or maybe one team, but I dont want to accuse someone. It is involved only in some guys with theirs doctors, scientists and medical staff and maybe, but MAYBE teams are informed. Of course It is a "higher driving school", and it is not like you take a viruses dose with special map cell and after 20minutes you are 20% better. It takes years to see effect. But it works.
Difficult subject and difficult to find someone who knows something about it. It is like mafia, you get top dolars to make good result and no one knows, lot of secret etc. Remember that officaly there is not much money at all in cycling, but if you look at external investments, bookies..
 
Dear Wiggo said:
I did a quick pubmed search and found one study that showed depressed white cell production after an EPO injection.

Routine EPO use for medical reasons is normally in people who are low in white cell count anyway. (Chemo patients)

Without seeing a reference I couldn't say if they allowed for this confounder
 
platinum_eagle said:
No. In my opinion gene doping isn't involved in any team in "open way". Or maybe one team, but I dont want to accuse someone.

the bionic team, don't be shy. we all love science. all the respect to the chinese wizards who sold the great secret to the honourable british

sky_bionic.jpg


froomey.jpg


valverde has fallen into the potion now too.
 
Yes - agree

vedrafjord said:
First decent thread in the clinic in a while

Roger Palfreeman was the British Cycling doctor for a a long time. He kept very quiet about his time with Linda McCartney. Whilst at the team, he pulled two riders from the Giro on the eve of the race because they had overdone it and would test positive.

Whilst Brad signed for mcCartney later, I really don't think there is anything to see there. The link does work in respect of other individuals though with both Palfreeman having an extensive career at BC and team DS Sean Yates being hired as DS at Sky and rider Max Sciandri being in charge of the BC U23 house in Italy. [Sciandri was working in conjunction with Brailsford on this project.] The residents of which, like Cav and Thomas, have gone on to have such great careers.

There was a UKAD investigation into practises at Linda McCartney http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/uk-anti-doping-agency-investigating-linda-mccartney-team

however, I am not sure that anything has ever been published from it. I think "beyond SOL so phew, that one can get locked away" was all that happened. Can anyone find a link to what UKAD found out about McCartney ?
 
Oct 16, 2010
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Freddythefrog said:
Roger Palfreeman was the British Cycling doctor for a a long time. He kept very quiet about his time with Linda McCartney. Whilst at the team, he pulled two riders from the Giro on the eve of the race because they had overdone it and would test positive.

Whilst Brad signed for mcCartney later, I really don't think there is anything to see there. The link does work in respect of other individuals though with both Palfreeman having an extensive career at BC and team DS Sean Yates being hired as DS at Sky and rider Max Sciandri being in charge of the BC U23 house in Italy. [Sciandri was working in conjunction with Fester on this project.] The residents of which, like Cav and Thomas, have gone on to have such great careers.

There was a UKAD investigation into practises at Linda McCartney http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/uk-anti-doping-agency-investigating-linda-mccartney-team

however, I am not sure that anything has ever been published from it. I think "beyond SOL so phew, that one can get locked away" was all that happened. Can anyone find a link to what UKAD found out about McCartney ?
somewhere in 2004 (iirc), UKAD unexpectedly fired one of their most reputed anti-doping staff members. (a lady, i think, can't remember her name)
I wouldn't be surprised if british doping programs enjoy tacit UKAD approval.
 
Oct 16, 2010
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Freddythefrog said:
Michele Verroken. http://www.sportingintegrity.com/9428.html Correct ideas and concepts and willing to speak her mind but perhaps not the sharpest on picking up about the full facets of the problem. Her comments at the time Lance was exposed showed a lack of depth of understanding of the problem.


came across this link.
about the conflicts of interest in british sports wrt antidoping, and other stuff.
lack time to dive into it, but it looks interesting, and british antidoping doesn't look too good. Verroken is cited a couple of times.
http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm200607/cmselect/cmsctech/67/6708.htm
 

stutue

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Apr 22, 2014
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sniper said:
came across this link.
about the conflicts of interest in british sports wrt antidoping, and other stuff.
lack time to dive into it, but it looks interesting, and british antidoping doesn't look too good. Verroken is cited a couple of times.
http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm200607/cmselect/cmsctech/67/6708.htm

Interesting read. Thanks.

Verroken is quoted in relation to lack of effort put in to see if dope cheats and suppliers can be pursued within the framework of existing Drug laws (all drugs, not specifically sporting).

The main thrust of the report is a recommendation that UK sport should be modelled on the US and Australian systems whereby anri-doping and sports promotion are not under the auspices of the same body.

The report says it is a problem of perception as no evidence exists of actual corruption.
 
sniper said:
came across this link.
about the conflicts of interest in british sports wrt antidoping, and other stuff.
lack time to dive into it, but it looks interesting, and british antidoping doesn't look too good. Verroken is cited a couple of times.
http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm200607/cmselect/cmsctech/67/6708.htm

5 Investigation and prosecution of doping

Conflicts of interest

83. UK Sport not only runs the UK anti-doping programme but is the government agency responsible for maximising British success, for example, in the Olympic Games. This is not the case in all other countries. The Australian Government, for example, has developed a distinct body, the Australian Anti-Doping Authority (ASADA), to take samples for testing against use of illegal HETs and to investigate and prosecute in cases of doping. On our visit to Australia, we found ASADA an impressive organisation in which there was a clear dedication to the fight against doping. It was also clear to us that ASADA has gained much support from stakeholders in Australian sport, for example the Australian Institute of Sport, the New South Wales Institute of Sport and the Australian section of the Court of Arbitration for Sport, who felt that establishment of ASADA had removed a previous conflict of interest faced by sporting bodies in Australia regarding the prosecution of doping cases. The USA has taken a similar approach in the creation of the U.S. Anti-Doping Agency (USADA).

84. Whether UK Sport is the appropriate body to support the dual roles of running the anti-doping programme and promoting UK athletic success has been considered previously. In March 2003 consultants PMP undertook a review of the role of UK Sport's Drug Free Sport Directorate on behalf of UK Sport and DCMS in March 2003. The review concluded that there was no tangible evidence of unethical behaviour at UK Sport and its report recommended that Drug-Free Sport should remain one of the key functions of UK Sport.[137] The Culture, Media and Sport Committee also considered this issue within its 2004 inquiry into drugs and role models in sport and concluded that they were not convinced that conflicts of interest between the dual roles of UK Sport were anything other than perceptions.

This is the only real problem there is. If the UCI can successfully separate the promotional and the regulatory bodies such that there is a real, meaningful separation, we can have hope the sport will clean up.
 

stutue

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Apr 22, 2014
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I suspect the UK situation is more to do with funding than anything else.

Its impossible to argue against that proposal.
 

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