Benefits of Cortisone while Time Trialing ???

[tockit]

I was listening to the 60 Minutes interview, and heard them say that Lance had recommended cortisone during time trials.

What kind of benefits would that give you for such an event??? I was under the impression that cortisone was a 'recovery' aid.

How would that benefit you in an ITT???

 

[tubularglue]

don't have a clue about the time trialing, but it is known to cure the common bee sting, and if taken get you kicked out of the tour - unless you have a backdated TUE. just sayin'


It has been written, that a large enough dose could act as an effective painkiller

 

[Stingray34]

It's a risky drug to take as its effects can backfire spectacularly.

Willy Voet talks about it in Breaking the Chain. It was very much the drug of choice for race days for many years.

It works like a painkiller and an anti-inflammatory, allowing the rider to go harder for longer and with a reduced sense of effort.

Get it wrong and it will have the opposite reaction, leaving your legs feeling 'blocked.'

By no means an ideal racing drug; about the only thing it really had going for it is that it was/is undetectable.

Long-term use is catastrophic - it will eat away the muscles.

 

[ultimobici]

It's a risky drug to take as its effects can backfire spectacularly.

Willy Voet talks about it in Breaking the Chain. It was very much the drug of choice for race days for many years.

It works like a painkiller and an anti-inflammatory, allowing the rider to go harder for longer and with a reduced sense of effort.

Get it wrong and it will have the opposite reaction, leaving your legs feeling 'blocked.'

By no means an ideal racing drug; about the only thing it really had going for it is that it was/is undetectable.

Long-term use is catastrophic - it will eat away the muscles.

Supposedly the reason Hinault was sidelined in 1983. Cortisone allows a rider to push themselves beyond the point the body naturally says "enough!", thus damaging joints etc.

 

[L'arriviste]

It's a risky drug to take as its effects can backfire spectacularly.

Willy Voet talks about it in Breaking the Chain. It was very much the drug of choice for race days for many years.

It works like a painkiller and an anti-inflammatory, allowing the rider to go harder for longer and with a reduced sense of effort.

Get it wrong and it will have the opposite reaction, leaving your legs feeling 'blocked.'

By no means an ideal racing drug; about the only thing it really had going for it is that it was/is undetectable.

Long-term use is catastrophic - it will eat away the muscles.

+1. Cortisone is more commonly used now as a recovery drug.

Suffering from tendinitis, Jesus Manzano was (over)dosed with cortisone. He 'recovered' enough to keep racing in the short-term but the damage to his body was permanent. Any real pressure on the knee now results in a haematoma, he said. [Source: CN 28 March 2004, from an interview in As (Spanish), 27 March 2004]

 

[brianf7]

Cortasone is a pain anti inflamitory steroid it breaks down muscle fast it isn good for pain will cause weight gain and water retention causes bone dencity loss.

Given to old people like me when asprin stops working next step is morphine.

Its no good for you so forget it it wont work unless you can afford to go see Dr Futens

 

[Berzin]

Cortisone DOES work, depending on which type.

Dexamethasone, a glutocorticoid, has the double impact of improving breathing and masking pain while doing a hard time trial.

Jesus Manzano suffered the ill affects of cortisone abuse because he was taking it in what was probably obscene amounts. Not to say it's not detrimental to long-term health, but really, do cyclists who dope really care?

 

[L'arriviste]

Cortisone DOES work, depending on which type.

Dexamethasone, a glutocorticoid, has the double impact of improving breathing and masking pain while doing a hard time trial.

Jesus Manzano suffered the ill affects of cortisone abuse because he was taking it in what was probably obscene amounts. Not to say it's not detrimental to long-term health, but really, do cyclists who dope really care?

Kelme injected him every day for almost a whole season.

 

[Berzin]

Kelme injected him every day for almost a whole season.

Yes, that would do it. Man, that is a lot of cortisone...

Once week yes, twice a week is pushing it, but every day? Wonder how much he was being injected on a daily basis?

 

[Suedehead]

Yes, that would do it. Man, that is a lot of cortisone...

Once week yes, twice a week is pushing it, but every day? Wonder how much he was being injected on a daily basis?

Another side effect of cortisone taken daily is euphoria, maybe helpful for those long and boring days doing le metier.

Doping docs should be behind bars.

 

[patricknd]

It's a risky drug to take as its effects can backfire spectacularly.

Willy Voet talks about it in Breaking the Chain. It was very much the drug of choice for race days for many years.

It works like a painkiller and an anti-inflammatory, allowing the rider to go harder for longer and with a reduced sense of effort.

Get it wrong and it will have the opposite reaction, leaving your legs feeling 'blocked.'

By no means an ideal racing drug; about the only thing it really had going for it is that it was/is undetectable.

Long-term use is catastrophic - it will eat away the muscles.

Cortisone DOES work, depending on which type.

Dexamethasone, a glutocorticoid, has the double impact of improving breathing and masking pain while doing a hard time trial.

Jesus Manzano suffered the ill affects of cortisone abuse because he was taking it in what was probably obscene amounts. Not to say it's not detrimental to long-term health, but really, do cyclists who dope really care?

Another side effect of cortisone taken daily is euphoria, maybe helpful for those long and boring days doing le metier.

Doping docs should be behind bars.

it's great for recovery, makes it pretty much instantaneous, or did for me anyway.

dexamethasone gets a big thumbs up from me as a breathing aide, but it gave me the worst indigestion i've ever had. with dex i could do 5-6 miles a day on the treadmill during chemo and radiation, especially during the sweet spot in the dose cycle.

i didn't get any euphoria from any of it, i actually had rage problems, and a friend that went through it told me the same thing.

if you can get the dosage right i can definitely see why they do it, but i don't believe i want any more, ever.

 

[Mr.38%]

Ask the Schlecks (and many if not most others) about the combination of Synacthen, HGH and T3.

 

[mountaindew]

T3? Not...

 

[D-Queued]

...

Long-term use is catastrophic - it will eat away the muscles.

And the hip socket.

Dave.

 

[patricknd]

And the hip socket.

Dave.

links please, proof that that was the cause please.

 

[D-Queued]

links please, proof that that was the cause please.

Are you serious? This is common knowledge.

Ok, maybe you never heard of it before. In that case, let's start with Armstrong's business partner, Demand Media's eHow site:

Cortisone shots may cause some serious side effects. In some cases, the shots may cause the bone nearby the injection to deteriorate and even possibly die

Skin also thins from cortisone applications - which is why you would NEVER use it for cycling saddle sores. Unless you had a backdated TUE of course.

OH, sorry, you were TALKING about the CAUSE of THAT other problem.

And, rather than some flakey Demand Media site, let's go with a real medical journal.

Corticosteroids and avascular necrosis of the femoral head

...a multitude of clinical studies confirm that corticosteroids represent a risk factor for the development of this condition. In a previous study from our institution 63% of the cases of avascular necrosis were induced by steroid use...

Hmmm... 63% of cases induced by corticosteroids.

I score that +1 for me, 0 for you and Polish.

Now, your turn.

Since your buddy Polish cannot provide any data to back up his claims, how about if you do.

Dave.

 

[patricknd]

Are you serious? This is common knowledge.

Ok, maybe you never heard of it before. In that case, let's start with Armstrong's business partner, Demand Media's eHow site:

Cortisone shots may cause some serious side effects. In some cases, the shots may cause the bone nearby the injection to deteriorate and even possibly die

Skin also thins from cortisone applications - which is why you would NEVER use it for cycling saddle sores. Unless you had a backdated TUE of course.

OH, sorry, you were TALKING about the CAUSE of THAT other problem.

And, rather than some flakey Demand Media site, let's go with a real medical journal.

Corticosteroids and avascular necrosis of the femoral head

...a multitude of clinical studies confirm that corticosteroids represent a risk factor for the development of this condition. In a previous study from our institution 63% of the cases of avascular necrosis were induced by steroid use...

Hmmm... 63% of cases induced by corticosteroids.

I score that +1 for me, 0 for you and Polish.

Now, your turn.

Since your buddy Polish cannot provide any data to back up his claims, how about if you do.

Dave.

63%. but not proof. as you weren't the treating physician, perhaps you shouldn't state it as fact, but a likely cause. your implication was clear.

 

[D-Queued]

63%. but not proof. as you weren't the treating physician, perhaps you shouldn't state it as fact, but a likely cause. your implication was clear.

It was?

To a post that stated, "it will eat away the muscles" I added "and the hip socket". Classic injection location is the buttocks.

In fact, joint damage is really the bigger medical problem.

N'est-ce pas?

Dave.

 

[patricknd]

It was?

To a post that stated, "it will eat away the muscles" I added "and the hip socket". Classic injection location is the buttocks.

In fact, joint damage is really the bigger medical problem.

N'est-ce pas?

Dave.

Didn't mean anyone in particular, huh?

Yeah okay

 

[ChrisE]

All I know is in 93 I got a shot of it in my nose to combat allergies, and another for good measure in my azz at the same time. Now, maybe the fact that my alergies went away shortly thereafter had the most to do with it, but I rode extremely strong the next couple of months after those shots.

 

[patricknd]

All I know is in 93 I got a shot of it in my nose to combat allergies, and another for good measure in my azz at the same time. Now, maybe the fact that my alergies went away shortly thereafter had the most to do with it, but I rode extremely strong the next couple of months after those shots.

probably just good training

 

[ChrisE]

probably just good training

LOL. You didn't know me when I raced. 200 miles/week was an average, sprinkled with wild partying, both before and after those shots. That is not good training.

That was less than most of the competition or what is typical for a cat 2. I wouldn't ride for a week and show up at races after being out all night and place. I look back on those days and realize they were wasted now that I cannot ride anymore, but I had a good time.

 

[D-Queued]

Didn't mean anyone in particular, huh?

Yeah okay

Ok, who are you thinking of? Seems like the entire peloton is using the stuff.

Cortisone is part of the standard cycling 'prescription':

"I used EPO, human growth hormone, cortisone and testosterone ... everything that was standard at the time"

You are concerned that I am singling out a specific rider when they all use it?

The noted information I posted above was researched for and posted on another forum, in the appropriate place.

In fact, there was extensive discussion of cortisone at that time - as people were wondering about any PED influence on a particularly well-publicized health condition.

Cortisone has recently been highlighted by one cyclist observing that he used it before TT's.

he said that he was instructed by some team doctors to use EPO and that <rider's name deleted> recommended he use the banned steroid cortisone before time trials

This thread is about cortisone. While they all appear to use it, one particular cyclist that stands out - especially given the high profile, ongoing investigation - yet another cyclist. Nobody has named any of these three cyclists yet in this thread. Why not?

Could it be because everyone uses it, and it is hard to isolate one individual?

Thus, if you are suggesting an specific inference or an undercurrent at a specific rider, I would ask what the fundamental purpose of the thread is. Was the OP designed to ask if the poster should start injecting cortisone to improve their own TT performance?

Or, was the OP questioning the performance of riders that had 'excelled' at the TT discipline? Including those that used to get passed in Tour TT's and then became more dominant?

With respect to side effects that can lead to medical afflictions for top notch cyclists, the impact of EPO on stimulating cancer growth is one such example.

Bottom line, though, drugs are on the WADA list if they meet two of three criteria, one of which is a threat to athlete health. Cortisone is famous for blown out tendons. Also for joint problems. The joint most affected? The hip joint.

Parenthetically, did you know that the WADA List is now available as an iPhone downloadable app? http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/wada-prohibited-list-2011/id408057950?mt=8

If you abuse cortisone, especially if you inject in your glutes, you should be aware that there is a realistic chance of developing avascular necrosis in the hip. You may go faster in a TT, but there may be a cost associated with the speed gain.

Cortisone is pretty common - as both PED and as prescribed sports medicine. Even I have been shot with cortisone.

Was it me you were inferring?

Dave.

 

[rata de sentina]

The cupboard of scientific studies on the performance benefits of cortisone is a bit bare. However, there are quite a few good studies showing performance enhancements of other corticosteroids. So even though these molecules are used quite widely for their anti-inflammatory properties it would be pretty difficult to distinguish this from an anti-doping viewpoint. Also, although there is an argument that cortisone may "enhance" performance purely on the basis of its' anti-inflammatory effects the studies on other corticosteroids raise the possibility of other direct metabolic effects.

 

[Realist]

The cupboard of scientific studies on the performance benefits of cortisone is a bit bare. However, there are quite a few good studies showing performance enhancements of other corticosteroids. So even though these molecules are used quite widely for their anti-inflammatory properties it would be pretty difficult to distinguish this from an anti-doping viewpoint. Also, although there is an argument that cortisone may "enhance" performance purely on the basis of its' anti-inflammatory effects the studies on other corticosteroids raise the possibility of other direct metabolic effects.

+1

Gluconeogenesis

It is well known in sports med/ex phys circles that the metabolic effects have an acute positive impact on performance.