Best All-Rounder Rider Today?

[The Hitch]

Also I would propose John Gadret for the poll, ahead of Peraud, Wiggins, Nibali.


Came 4th in a bunch sprint in Pais Vasco- can sprint

Won a Ardennes like stage in the Giro, beating Scarponi and Purito. 7th in FW in 2007 - can launch massive attacks on hills.

Awesome performances on Giro super mountains like Zoncolan Mortirolo - can climb and then some.

Awesome performance in Giro 3 days of hell - 3rd on stage 13, 6th on Zoncolan 5th (3rd of leaders) on Gardeccia - has AWESOME recovery.

Former cyclocross national champion and 5th in worlds - can handle any terrain.

3rd in Kronplatz tt - can time trial.



Oki the last one was a joke, he cant time trial, thats his weakness, but other than that hes a pretty good all rounder.

 

[cineteq]

Still Valverde due to his amazing sprinting ability for a gt rider, and ability to win on just about any parcors, takes it imo.

How does he leverage his TT abilities against Evans and Contador? Sprinting does not weigh strong enough vs. the all-rounder definition, imo.

 

[The Hitch]

Oh yeah, whats Nibali doing here ahead of Sanchez?

Hes a better descender (slightly) but a worse climber, a way worse tter, worse on hills and a worse sprinter.

And even on the descents we are talking about the best gc descender vs the 2nd best gc descender so marginal.

 

[janraaskalt]

I do think Cadel is very good at this, better than probably anyone else in the poll. Im basing that on his Mtb victories, his 1 or 2 great descents, his Strade Bianchi win, and staying with Cancellara, Thomas, Hushovd (though Schleck as well) on cobbles. On top of his very good climbing skills and great tt ability.

Still Valverde due to his amazing sprinting ability for a gt rider, and ability to win on just about any parcors, takes it imo.

Evans beats Valverde in any aspect except sprinting. In time trialling Evans will beat Valverde in almost 100% of the cases.

 

[Kvinto]

oooookkkk..ah...if you say so LOL!
If that the criteria, some people can make a case for Tony Martin too...

what's that funny? i claim that at the start of season 2012 Alejandro Valverde is the best all-rounder, as far as i understand your point is that he can't be considered as the best today because in fact he is banned till 1 Jan 2012, correct?

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Libertine, are you hi-jacking yet another thread? No offense to your girls though.

There have been more than enough threads hi-jacked to talk about Cadel Evans, Robert Gesink or Mark Cavendish over the last few months, why can't I hi-jack a few to talk about Marianne Vos?

 

[The Hitch]

How does he leverage his TT abilities against Evans and Contador? Sprinting does not weigh strong enough vs. the all-rounder definition, imo.

If it wasnt for sprinting Valverdes palmares wouldnt be half as good.

For me, all rounder means everything counts.

Valverde isnt as good a tter as Evans but hes not bad either. Hes won tts, podiumed tts, in the Vuelta he lost 20 seconds to Cadel on the final time trial.

So Cadel is a slightly better tter.

But on sprinting Valverdes advantage is huge.

I like to think of it like PCM.
if you gave the riders a ranking out of a hundred like in pcm where the best usually has 83 - 85, Id give them as follows

Time trial

Cancellara 83 , Cadel 77 and Valverde 73.

Sprints

Cavendish 84, Valverde 74 and Cadel 60.

Mountains
Contador 85, Cadel 79 and Valverde 77.

Hills
Gilbert 85, Valverde 82 and Cadel 79.

Descending
Cancellara and Nibali 82, Valverde 79 Cadel 76.

Add them up and Valverde comes ahead, though its close and I do understand the case for Evans,

 

[cineteq]

Oh yeah, whats Nibali doing here ahead of Sanchez?

You answer a question with this question? Now to your question, if you're making a case for Sanchez to be in the list as all-rounder, you will have to do better than that. Nibali has won a GT to start with, second Sanchez career is full of inconsistent performances.

Perhaps Nibali should not be on the list either but nobody so far has made a strong case for a different rider to be there either.

 

[cineteq]

There have been more than enough threads hi-jacked to talk about Cadel Evans, Robert Gesink or Mark Cavendish over the last few months, why can't I hi-jack a few to talk about Marianne Vos?

True, you've made your point.

 

[The Hitch]

You answer a question with this question? Now to your question, if you're making a case for Sanchez to be in the list as all-rounder, you will have to do better than that. Nibali has won a GT to start with, second Sanchez career is full of inconsistent performances.

Perhaps Nibali should not be on the list either but nobody so far has made a strong case for a different rider to be there either.

And Sanchez has won the olympics which is as prestigious as the Vuelta.

Sanchez is clearly a far superior all rounder to Nibali.

I don't think anyone can make a case for Nibali being a better all rounder than Sanchez

You certainatly have not. You just told me I have to do better. But if you compare any aspect of cycling Sanchez to Nibali, Sanchez wins everyone other than descending which he loses by a whisker.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

You answer a question with this question? Now to your question, if you're making a case for Sanchez to be in the list as all-rounder, you will have to do better than that. Nibali has won a GT to start with, second Sanchez career is full of inconsistent performances.

Perhaps Nibali should not be on the list either but nobody so far has made a strong case for a different rider to be there either.

Before I saw it was a Hitch post I was assuming they were meaning Luís León Sánchez, who could perhaps have been a candidate too. Great descender, good time triallist, functional climber (has top 10ed the Vuelta and top 15ed the Tour), excellent in one-week races, brilliant stage hunter, has won established hilly classics (San Sebastián). The northern Classics are where he falls down, but he's built for them more than most Spanish stage racers, that's for sure.

 

[cineteq]

Add them up and Valverde comes ahead, though its close and I do understand the case for Evans,

So in other words, you give all abilities the same weight? Can Valverde do what Evans did in Medrisio 09?

 

[cineteq]

Before I saw it was a Hitch post I was assuming they were meaning Luís León Sánchez, who could perhaps have been a candidate too. Great descender, good time triallist, functional climber (has top 10ed the Vuelta and top 15ed the Tour), excellent in one-week races, brilliant stage hunter, has won established hilly classics (San Sebastián). The northern Classics are where he falls down, but he's built for them more than most Spanish stage racers, that's for sure.

I would have put him the list if I had remembered, but definitely not Sammy. Good case!

 

[mb2612]

So in other words, you give all abilities the same weight? Can Valverde do what Evans did in Medrisio 09?

Yes

Can Evans did what Valverde did in Liege, twice?

 

[Libertine Seguros]

So in other words, you give all abilities the same weight? Can Valverde do what Evans did in Medrisio 09?

What, win a race solo? Win a hilly classic? Yes, he's capable of that.

But the difference was, he didn't actually do it, because Rodríguez was up the road. And Valverde, though capable of something like that, has a tendency to rely a bit too heavily sometimes on his sprint. If they'd come to the finish together it was academic, probably Valverde beating Cunego and Evans in the sprint. Evans didn't have teammates there, had nothing to lose, and knew that he couldn't rely on his sprint for victory, and took his opportunity when it presented itself.

 

[The Hitch]

So in other words, you give all abilities the same weight? Can Valverde do what Evans did in Medrisio 09?

If we are debating who is the best "all rounder" than different abilities should be given the same weight, yes.

Its no use to ask who the best all rounder is and then say that climbing is the most important.

Valverdes sprinting wont help him in grand tours, but we arent talking about the best grand tour rider but all round rider, and if someone is an "all rounder" they should specialize in as many disciplines as possible.

Look at your poll and see that seeing Valverde as a better all rounder isnt such a rare conclusion for fans to come too.

I would have put him the list if I had remembered, but definitely not Sammy. Good case!

Uh, you just said that Sammy cant be in because he hasnt won a gt.

But LLS is in because he won paris Nice 2009?

Pay more attention to the different principles you preach in your posts.

 

[Dutchsmurf]

Quite the strange poll we got here. If we are talking about all-rounder as in is good in many different kinds of cycling, this poll makes no sense at all. Only 3 names belong there (Evans, Valverde and Hagen). The rest is a complete mystery who they are even included. Wiggins, Leipheimer, Froome? I guess the original poster wanted as many options as possible and included the first names that came to mind.

Now if this would be about the best all-rounder as in the best GT rider, then it would make more sense. In a way. Or not really.

A case certainly can be made for Sanchez and Sanchez, but also for Gilbert or Cancellara even. Even Sagan I would rank above most options currently included in the poll.

 

[on3m@n@rmy]

I'm glad Piti is back and look forward to watching him race and effect races. But if the poll is for the best all-rounder today, right now, then IMO Piti should not be on the list. If the poll was for best all-rounder the last decade or past 5 years, then OK put him in the poll and he should be at or near the top of that list, which should be a longer list with other riders who are now retired (e.g. Jalabert). But any talk about Piti at the top of the list today based on performances 2 years ago makes no sense. I agree if he comes back to the form he had he would at least be near the top of this poll. But for now I'll say Cadel.

 

[Greenflame]

Voted for Valverde, but beginning to doubt that the more I think about it. Evans has the better time trialling and better climbing, I'd rate them about equally at hills, while Valverde has the best sprint. Descending I honestly wouldn't know, both have shown some good things during descends. On cobbles neither of them has actually proven much, so no winner there either.

One aspect that has largely been ignored so far though is recuperation. Though it is true that Valverde is pretty close to Evans' level in a mountain stage, Valverde fades after multiple hard stages in a row. He never has had a great recuperation, while Evans obviously does.

I'd say both are about equal, depending on the value given to different aspects. The sprinting gives Valverde quite an advantage, but he loses on almost all other aspects of being an all-rounder. I think I'd still say Valverde, since that combination of sprinter and climber / GC contender is very rare, but Evans is a very close competitor.

 

[maltiv]

Fair enough, Leipheimer might not deserve to be there, but neither is Sagan. He can't win GT (yet) and he has a lot to prove in Classics. But make no mistake, I love this guy...he might be on his way to be an excellent all-rounder.

Why do you have to be able to win a GT to be an all-rounder? For me an allrounder is a guy who you can expect to fight in the front on almost any type of terrain. GT winners being all-rounders is extremely rare because you rarely see GT winners those days who can sprint at all (Valverde being the exception, of course).

 

[hfer07]

Leipheimer???

the same leipheimer that never goes to the classics, doesn't sprint at all & barely is seen in a breakaway or an attack for that matter?
I know the effects of the off-season can cause certain confusion, but not of this caliber Cancellara & Martin are way above him-just to let you know..

on topic: the current best all-rounder rider is Cadel Evans, whose cycling skills excel on GT, one week races & a day races, with a great record on ITT. Contador could have bettered him had he ridden & won some classics more often, but his mind is always on the GT titles....

 

[El Pistolero]

He can't win sprints? Are you serious? By classics I don't mean monuments only...

Remember the stage 4 liquigas riders descended away from everyone else? Also, Sagan didn't just catch Cunego on that descent, he also flew away from everyone who had been with him in the initial breakaway.

Of course he can win sprints, just was easier to bold the whole sentence.

He can't win any classic as of now. He just can't. His uphill sprint isn't all that special as we've seen in the Vuelta. He was nowhere on El Escorial, Valdepenas de Jaen, the first stage of the Vuelta, etc

Notice how the title says today? How can Sagan be an all-rounder based on his results this year? He's useless in classics and can't compete for overall classification in any of the important one week stage races. I'm yet to see him win a prologue in a big race, never mind a real time trial.

The following races are classics:

Milano-San Remo
Ronde van Vlaanderen
Paris-Roubaix
Liège-Bastogne-Liège
Giro di Lombardia
Gent-Wevelgem
La Flèche Wallonne
Amstel Gold Race
Clasica San Sebastian
Paris-Tours

 

[Gloin22]

I wouldn't call him the best, but Geraint Thomas would in my Top 10 or 5. Good TT'er, future star Classics rider, already showing his talent. Decent sprinter, showed his climbing skills at Tour, finishing in 31. And Amazing Lead-out rider. Some of the pulls he did this year were mind blowing, literally.

 

[maltiv]

Of course he can win sprints, just was easier to bold the whole sentence.

He can't win any classic as of now. He just can't. His uphill sprint isn't all that special as we've seen in the Vuelta. He was nowhere on El Escorial, Valdepenas de Jaen, the first stage of the Vuelta, etc

Notice how the title says today? How can Sagan be an all-rounder based on his results this year? He's useless in classics and can't compete for overall classification in any of the important one week stage races. I'm yet to see him win a prologue in a big race, never mind a real time trial.

The following races are classics:

Milano-San Remo
Ronde van Vlaanderen
Paris-Roubaix
Liège-Bastogne-Liège
Giro di Lombardia
Gent-Wevelgem
La Flèche Wallonne
Amstel Gold Race
Clasica San Sebastian
Paris-Tours

He almost won G-W this year. Last year he was 1 second from winning the prologue in Tour de Romandie. Anyway all I said is that he's more of an all-rounder than Leipheimer or Wiggins...

 

[The Hitch]

The OP has made clear that by "all rounder" he means climbing and tt and has just thrown in a bunch of names he thinks can climb and tt.

Therefore the fact that Cancellara can descend, ride cobbles, hills and tts, doesnt mean anything, whereas Levis 2nd in the Cali tt and victory on Mt Baldy makes him a champion all rounder.

Bizzarely Nibali is included even though hes not exactly a special tter, while Samu is excluded because cineteq takes the Phil Ligget, Anthony Tan view of cycling where Sanchez is viewed as a poor descender with Purito like tt abilities who won Luz Ardiden from a break.

Hence no grounds to complain about Sagans non inclusion, and Im changing my vote from Valverde to Contador, since if only tt and climbing is included, he is the best all rounder