Best classic rider

[Krzysztof_O]

OMG, I don't even know how to compare the current greats to the dinosaurs.
Out of this century I would pick Van der Poel: the best in Paris-Roubaix, the 2nd best in Flandres and probably still the most MSR wins in a decade of racing.

 

[Cance > TheRest]

I guess we don't know what Ganna would do if he didn't have mvdp and Pog in his era but he's only won a single one day race ever I believe.. so not in the same ballpark as canc regardless of what the power meter may say.

Boonen vs Van Aert feels like the closest comparison imo.

Yeah, Ganna is like an elephant in a glass house in one-day races. The thing about Cancellara is that he was exceptional, not just physically but also technically and tactically, characteristics that Ganna does not posses. I actually see more similarities between Cancellara and MVDP in one day races for this reason.

I agree to some extent with the Boonen and Van Aert comparison in terms of rider characteristics, but I think Boonen was faster and had more of a winner's mentality, while Van Aert is the better 'climber' of the two (Boonen was pretty hopeless in that department).

 

[Red Rick]

Yeah, Ganna is like an elephant in a glass house in one-day races. The thing about Cancellara is that he was exceptional, not just physically but also technically and tactically, characteristics that Ganna does not posses. I actually see more similarities between Cancellara and MVDP in one day races for this reason.

I agree to some extent with the Boonen and Van Aert comparison in terms of rider characteristics, but I think Boonen was faster and had more of a winner's mentality, while Van Aert is the better 'climber' of the two (Boonen was pretty hopeless in that department).

Basically every big Cancellara win apart from MSR was lol brute force.

 

[Cance > TheRest]

Basically every big Cancellara win apart from MSR was lol brute force.

You are incorrect. Just think about RVV 2014 and Paris-Roubaix 2013.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Which Ronde and Sanremo courses are we using?

 

[Red Rick]

You are incorrect. Just think about RVV 2014 and Paris-Roubaix 2013.

Winning a sprint is just brute force for a different amount of time at a different moment.

 

[Cance > TheRest]

Winning a sprint is just brute force for a different amount of time at a different moment.

You are funny. Maybe you should rewatch those races.

 

[Netserk]

yeah i also think canc was rather cunning and mostly rode quite well tactically

he had good timing and rarely used much energy before he made his move , it was only in his spartacus period that he thought raw power was enough

 

[Red Rick]

yeah i also think canc was rather cunning and mostly rode quite well tactically

he had good timing and rarely used much energy before he made his move , it was only in his spartacus period that he thought raw power was enough

RVV 2011 and MSR 2012 are all timers

 

[Netserk]

RVV 2011 and MSR 2012 are all timers

thats the spartacus period

 

[proffate]

Winning a sprint is just brute force for a different amount of time at a different moment.

Once you are the favorite it becomes basically impossible to win by any other means than brute force for some number of seconds. Cancellara can't just pull a Terpstra or Nibali or Bettiol. But sometimes it takes a bit of nous to know when to open the throttle. Especially in races like Roubaix, where you alternate between hard sections and flat pavement, and the race situation is constantly changing; you can't just let lesser threats up the road but you also can't just drag the whole group of favorites with you. And finding the Sep Vanmarckes of the peloton who will somewhat contribute because they're happy with 2nd, requires understanding of psychological tactics. I also liked >1000w seated attacks which made it look like he was hardly trying and broke the spirit of his chasers, even though I think it contributed to the mechanical doping allegations.

That said I did think he fell back on, "well if I can't win I'll just show I am the strongest" a few too many times, which sabotaged his chances in the subsequent race as he'd continue to be the most marked.

 

[Blanco]

De Vlaeminck would drop Pogacar in the Tour as well, probably

No he wouldn't, although I don't know what that has to do with this subject.

 

[Berniece]

For Boonen I would at least say with some confidence he wouldn't hack it today in Sanremo or RVV based on how the dynamics of those races have completely changed, and for the dinosaur era I would think it's a lot more just raw endurance and much less top end and anaerobic watts.

I think Boonen even said this himself, that RVV would be too difficult now for him

 

[BubbaChuck]

Pog improves the most by focusing and ist not even close. Basically runs circles.

 

[VanBsr]

I’d say that Fabian Cancellara in 2010 was well above the performances of Pogacar and MDVP in recent years. A two-minute gap to his main rival, and the difference of speed between him and anyone else on the cobbles is something we just don’t see today. Then you have to remember the following years, with a mix of bad luck and everyone being against him. Without that, I think his palmares would be the one to beat right now.

Also, I find it quite romantic how he won that edition of Tour de Suisse.

 

[Red Rick]

I’d say that Fabian Cancellara in 2010 was well above the performances of Pogacar and MDVP in recent years. A two-minute gap to his main rival, and the difference of speed between him and anyone else on the cobbles is something we just don’t see today. Then you have to remember the following years, with a mix of bad luck and everyone being against him. Without that, I think his palmares would be the one to beat right now.

Also, I find it quite romantic how he won that edition of Tour de Suisse.

Managing to lose both races in 2011 does not at all equate to being as far ahead of the rest as you say. Van der Poel won Roubaix with a longer solo by a bigger gap when he wanted to, and basically only losing RVV to Pogacar while Cancellara spent his prime donating monuments to the likes of Nick Nuyens.

 

[canina82]

Managing to lose both races in 2011 does not at all equate to being as far ahead of the rest as you say. Van der Poel won Roubaix with a longer solo by a bigger gap when he wanted to, and basically only losing RVV to Pogacar while Cancellara spent his prime donating monuments to the likes of Nick Nuyens.

He lost the 2011 edition due to his big ego. A little bit like Contador in the 2009 Paris Nice.

 

[Cance > TheRest]

I’d say that Fabian Cancellara in 2010 was well above the performances of Pogacar and MDVP in recent years. A two-minute gap to his main rival, and the difference of speed between him and anyone else on the cobbles is something we just don’t see today. Then you have to remember the following years, with a mix of bad luck and everyone being against him. Without that, I think his palmares would be the one to beat right now.

Also, I find it quite romantic how he won that edition of Tour de Suisse.

There sure seemed to be a romance between him and the TdS organizers when they planned the route. IIRC, Crans Montana was the hardest finish that year.

As much as I love Fabian, I also do not really think his performances were above what Pog and MVDP has been doing, but rather on a similar level of domination (which is sadly ignored these days by many newer fans who joined the party in the beginning of the WVA/MVDP era).

I'd still say that E3 2011 is the most dominant victory I have ever seen in a classic. Possibly, this victory proved costly for Fabian in the following RVV and PR, where he was a very marked man. I will concede to Red Rick, that sis tactics in that years RVV was questionable, as he ended up cramping on Muur after he'd decided to go a little bit too early. BUT, the tactical choices he took to win Roubaix in 2013 and RVV in 2014, despite being in a similar situation as the main marked man, shows that he developed strategic abilities. It is also my understanding, from what former teammates have told, that he was pretty good at using his team - i.e. he was a very particular and demanding but also thankful leader in those races.

 

[Berniece]

He lost the 2011 edition due to his big ego. A little bit like Contador in the 2009 Paris Nice.

Contador lost 2009 Paris-Nice due to not eating properly and not having the energy anymore, right?

 

[Red Rick]

Contador lost 2009 Paris-Nice due to not eating properly and not having the energy anymore, right?

Yeah. It was so bad he got dropped by the entire peloton on an uphill drag to the finish.

Bruyneel torched him for it, which is how we know that even in 2009 riders and trainers were aware of the importance of food.

 

[ice&fire]

Yeah. It was so bad he got dropped by the entire peloton on an uphill drag to the finish.

Bruyneel torched him for it, which is how we know that even in 2009 riders and trainers were aware of the importance of food.

The importance of food goes to a different level recalling that Cancellara was told to attack in PR 2010 while Boonen was at the car taking some food. Lulu won a Tour stage attacking his breakaway fellows while Sagan was eating.

 

[Forever The Best]

That was the race Armstrong said he had a lot to learn.
I think it's worth considering that Cancellara barely had a team support in 2011. Cancellara also could climb at times (Mendrisio 2009, Beijing 2008, Suisse 2009, Tour 2008) @Red Rick

Anyways I think current Pogacar might well be unbeaten in this Ronde course.

 

[RealKwaremonster]

Even if Pogacar would stop with the classics now, his achievements would still be talked about in decades to come. But he wont stop yet, he will probably add some more dominant victories and will probably surpass Merckx. He is the best classics rider of at least the last decades and its not even close.

 

[RealKwaremonster]

For Van der Poel it will not be about being the greatest overall but about how he compares to specialists like Boonen, Cancellara and riders like De Vlaeminck. If he can piss of De Vlaeminck more in any way, that would be a bonus.

 

[Krzysztof_O]

Yeah. It was so bad he got dropped by the entire peloton on an uphill drag to the finish.

Bruyneel torched him for it, which is how we know that even in 2009 riders and trainers were aware of the importance of food.

Even the mighty Lance, as a part of his mental warfare, said that Contador has "a lot to learn" following the PN fiasco.