Best Classics rider of the 21st Century

[Nick C.]

Didn't Cancellara podium at San Remo, Ronde and Roubaix this year which would give him 6 podiums since he won each of those in the past?

 

[El Pistolero]

Didn't Cancellara podium at San Remo, Ronde and Roubaix this year which would give him 6 podiums since he won each of those in the past?

I'm not counting wins only second and third places, but I guess the post I quoted was also including wins. My bad.

But if you count wins then yeah he has the most(10) followed by Gilbert(spread over 4 different Monuments!) and Cancellara who both have 8(who has won 3 different Monuments).

But Paolo Bettini has 10 podiums at important one day races and has won many other classics like Clasica San Sebastian, Zürich-Metzgete and the HEW Cyclassics(when it still meant something).

 

[Nick C.]

I voted for Gilbert because he has the broadest range of results.

 

[Angliru]

hhmm If Bettini had been there in 2010 and in his pomp he would have beaten Spartacus in the Ronde and Roubaix. Power will never overcome a real tactician specially an Italian one, there so sneaky

Also if fabian has more support, he also has more people for his foes to sit in on. He basically won in 2010 cos he was a bit better than boonen and the rest were rubbish.

Id go for Bettini just cos he sprinted to win, he atacked from long range to win and he was dam clever. Actually thinking about it he was pretty bloody awesome.

Agreed. Bettini was relentless and like the Energizer Bunny in his attacking of his opponents. Always showed a huge heart and tactical sense to match. He was a true joy to watch. Gilbert, if he continues to have seasons like the past 2 will eventually surpass Paolo though, but right now it's Bettini in my book.

 

[Panda Claws]

Gilbert: 9x Classic Wins ( 2x GdL, 1x FW, 2x AGR, 1x LBL, 2x PR, 1x CSS )
5x 3rd in Classics

Bettini: 9x Classic Wins ( 1x MSR, 2x LBL, 2x GdL, 1x CSS, 1x HEW, 2x Zürich )
5x 2nd in Classics
1x 3rd in Classics

2x World Champion
1x Silver Medal

Boonen: 7x Classic Wins ( 2x RVV, 3x PR, 2x GW )
4x 2nd in Classics
3x 3rd in Classics

1x World Champion


Cancellara: 4x Classic Wins ( 1x MSR, 1x RVV, 2x PR)
3x 2nd in Classics
1x 3rd in Classics



It is quite clear that Cancellara is not part of "the big 3"

 

[Cobblestoned]

Gilbert: 9x Classic Wins ( 2x GdL, 1x FW, 2x AGR, 1x LBL, 2x PR, 1x CSS )
5x 3rd in Classics

Bettini: 9x Classic Wins ( 1x MSR, 2x LBL, 2x GdL, 1x CSS, 1x HEW, 2x Zürich )
5x 2nd in Classics
1x 3rd in Classics

2x World Champion
1x Silver Medal

Boonen: 7x Classic Wins ( 2x RVV, 3x PR, 2x GW )
4x 2nd in Classics
3x 3rd in Classics

1x World Champion


Cancellara: 4x Classic Wins ( 1x MSR, 1x RVV, 2x PR)
3x 2nd in Classics
1x 3rd in Classics



It is quite clear that Cancellara is not part of "the big 3"

Yes, cristal clear.
But what is Gilbert doing there ?
LMAO.
You have really internalized the good old motto:
"Never ever trust any statistics that you didn't beautify yourself."

Come on acne-kids. Come back in 5 years or something....when his has won a cobblestone or something...

 

[Panda Claws]

Gilbert's palmares is close enough to Bettini's at this point already. Please point out facts. Do not just say you are wrong or something like that without backing it up. Because looking at the statistics Bettini only has an edge because of his World Champion titles because Gilbert has won 'better' classics in my humble opinion.

 

[Tank Engine]

Gilbert: 9x Classic Wins ( 2x GdL, 1x FW, 2x AGR, 1x LBL, 2x PR, 1x CSS )
5x 3rd in Classics

Bettini: 9x Classic Wins ( 1x MSR, 2x LBL, 2x GdL, 1x CSS, 1x HEW, 2x Zürich )
5x 2nd in Classics
1x 3rd in Classics

2x World Champion
1x Silver Medal

Boonen: 7x Classic Wins ( 2x RVV, 3x PR, 2x GW )
4x 2nd in Classics
3x 3rd in Classics

1x World Champion


Cancellara: 4x Classic Wins ( 1x MSR, 1x RVV, 2x PR)
3x 2nd in Classics
1x 3rd in Classics



It is quite clear that Cancellara is not part of "the big 3"

I guess you mean Gilbert has won Paris-Tours twice. After my original post, I've revised my opinion and Boonen is now on the podium with Spartacus in 4th, so I agree with you there.

 

[Panda Claws]

I guess you mean Gilbert has won Paris-Tours twice. After my original post, I've revised my opinion and Boonen is now on the podium with Spartacus in 4th, so I agree with you there.

Yeah I meant Paris-Tours thanks for pointing that out

 

[Mr. Gipsy]

Gilbert is pretty talented! He still has a handful of classics to be won during the next 3-4 years.

 

[Parera]

Cancellara: 4x Classic Wins ( 1x MSR, 1x RVV, 2x PR)
3x 2nd in Classics
1x 3rd in Classics



It is quite clear that Cancellara is not part of "the big 3"

Why did you ignore Cancellara's Silver Medal in the road race in 2008?

As an aside, Cancellara impresses me more as an "overall" cyclist far more than anyone from that list. He's been a dominant time trialist for so long, a discipline which from my own personal experience I rate to be me punishing than anything else in the sport of cycling. But whatever, haters gonna hate.

 

[Panda Claws]

Why did you ignore Cancellara's Silver Medal in the road race in 2008?

As an aside, Cancellara impresses me more as an "overall" cyclist far more than anyone from that list. He's been a dominant time trialist for so long, a discipline which from my own personal experience I rate to be me punishing than anything else in the sport of cycling. But whatever, haters gonna hate.

Sorry, I forgot the olympics.

 

[King Of The Wolds]

I voted for Gilbert because he has the broadest range of results.

But we aren't voting for best all rounder. We're voting for best rider. I think we've got it about right in the poll - Bettini, Boonen and Cancellara, in that order, based on wins in big races, which is the most sensible measure.

 

[Nick C.]

I could see Bettini, in fact if I could I would change my vote, but Boonen and Cancellara to date are non-competitive in Lombardia, LBL, Fleche, Amstel, San Sebastian so hard to call them best. Bettini and Gilbert can and have been prominent and have results in all sorts of classics except for Roubaix, and Gilbert at least has won Het Volk 2x to the extent that that matters.

 

[El Pistolero]

But we aren't voting for best all rounder. We're voting for best rider. I think we've got it about right in the poll - Bettini, Boonen and Cancellara, in that order, based on wins in big races, which is the most sensible measure.

Gilbert has more than double the amount of classic wins than Cancellara. And let's not even get started on semi-classics here.

Bettini > Boonen > Gilbert

And some people find the best all-rounder(in one day races) to be the best classics specialist you know. Who would have won the old World Cup the last 3 years? Not Cancellara... The fact is, Gilbert is the only real classics specialist of his generation.

 

[The Hitch]

Gilbert has more than double the amount of classic wins than Cancellara. And let's not even get started on semi-classics here.

Bettini > Boonen > Gilbert

Gilbert is a classic specialist. Thats all he does really.

Cancellara is a all rounder who splits his seasons between classics tts and domestiquing for the Schlecks.

 

[El Pistolero]

Gilbert is a classic specialist. Thats all he does really.

Cancellara is a all rounder who splits his seasons between classics tts and domestiquing for the Schlecks.

Look at the title of the thread.

I don't care if Cancellara wastes his time in helping 2 useless leaders. It's irrelevant.

Ps: Gilbert doesn't ride the Tour lol? You're not going to win the argument about which cyclist is most active during the entire season.

 

[The Hitch]

Look at the title of the thread.

I don't care if Cancellara wastes his time in helping 2 useless leaders.

Ps: Gilbert doesn't ride the Tour lol? You're not going to win the argument about which cyclist is most active troughout the entire season.

Well he does have more monument wins.

He has less classic wins but thats because unlike Gilbert he can't afford to go for non monument classics as he has other things to do.

But his performances when he does bring it show that he is one of the best

 

[El Pistolero]

Well he does have more monument wins.

He has less classic wins but thats because unlike Gilbert he can't afford to go for non monument classics as he has other things to do.

But his performances when he does bring it show that he is one of the best

He has less classic wins because he can't win any classic like Clasica San Sebastian, Amstel Gold Race, Flèche Wallonne, Il Lombardia and Liège-Bastogne-Liège.

Gilbert has a busier program than Cancellara and unlike Cancellara competes in every race he enters. Again read the title of the thread, no one cares what Cancellara does outside the classics here. It's a thread about classics, not time trial specialists or domestiques.

And Gilbert will be a domestique for CE at the Tour, but he'll still enter all the classics. And unlike Cancellara, he'll actually be active outside time trials.

 

[The Hitch]

no one cares what Cancellara does outside the classics here.

And the point made was that when Cancellara does go to the classics its more impressive. So the fact that Gilbert has won more doesnt matter to that particular discussion.

He doesnt just wait for the last hill but leaves it all on the line.

The RVV he lost this year for example was a more impressive performance than Gilberts LBL win and thats why hes getting just as much support as Gilbert in this poll.

 

[El Pistolero]

And the point made was that when Cancellara does go to the classics its more impressive. So the fact that Gilbert has won more doesnt matter to that particular discussion.

He doesnt just wait for the last hill but leaves it all on the line.

The RVV he lost this year for example was a more impressive performance than Gilberts LBL win and thats why hes getting just as much support as Gilbert in this poll.

Lol

Lombardia 2010: attacked before the final hill
Lombardia 2011: attacked before the final hill
Paris-Tours 2009/2010: attacked before the finall hill. Beat Boonen in a a sprint
Omloop het Volk 2006, 2008: 50km solo attacks
Clasica San Sebastian 2011: attacked before the final hill on the Jaizkibel.
Amstel Gold Race 2010: attacked and reacted to a lot of attacks a lot before the final hill, still destroyed everyone in the sprint.
Amstel Gold race 2011: he brought back Andy Schleck with a little help of Vanendert and still destroyed everyone in the uphill sprint.
LBL 2011: Gilbert put in small attacks on the Roche aux Faucons and Saint-Nicholas. He had no reason to put in serious attacks because he can easily beat the Schlecks in a sprint. Never the less, he dropped Andy on Saint-Nicholas as if it was nothing.

Sometimes I wonder if you watch classics that don't feature Cancellara. Cancellara's attack at the Ronde van Vlaanderen was pure stupidity. Being the best classics specialist also involves being tactical.

 

[rhubroma]

Obviously, just compare their palmares.

Paolo Bettini never won the Amstel Gold Race or La Flèche Wallonne while Phil has already won those races. In his first win at AGR he attacked and responded to a lot of attacks before the final ascend of the Cauberg. This year he was chasing behind Andy him self before the Cauberg. So you can't really use the "he uses all his strength for one decisive attack" argument here.

I don't think even Bettini could hold this Phil's wheel if he attacked on a hill. He was faster though, but Phil is without a doubt the better cobbled rider of the two with his 2 victories at the Omloop het Volk, his podium at a tough Gent-Wevelgem and 2 podiums at the Ronde van Vlaanderen.

So overall Phil is definitely the more complete classics rider of the two. He's the Michele Bartoli of his generation.

Ok on being more complete, but then again he is Beligan. Bettini being Tuscan always had a different style and focus. Bartoli was, as an Italian (also from Tuscany), definitely an exception in this case. But do you really think Gilbert is more explosive on climbs between 2 and 4K? I don't.

And, yes, the point I made in not attacking so much is valid, since it's one thing to respond to a series of attacks and then go when your opponents are on the ropes, another when you have worn yourself out riding an aggressive race, then not be able to respond when another capitalizes on your wasted efforts. Of course cycling is a combination of strenght and tactics, and I think Gilbert has found the right dimention in perfectly balancing the two. Bettini was just to uncontainable and chaotic to be in the same leage as the Belgian in this, and it cost him on more than one occassion.

I'm not saying Gilbert isn't super strong, but he also has a sense of measure and proportion that Bettini lacked: and that this has played to his advantage (which is an honor to him), while it took away from the latter's.

My point was that when Bettini was on it didn't matter if he exaggerated or not, since he was so superior in a certain type of race that he could win anyway, and on several occasions actually did. And that his aggressive style was so entertaining to watch. For this reason, I still place him a 1/4 notch above the Belgian.

 

[El Pistolero]

Ok on being more complete, but then again he is Beligan. Bettini being Tuscan always had a different style and focus. Bartoli was, as an Italian (also from Tuscany), definitely an exception in this casedo you really think Gilbert was more explosive on climbs between 2 and 4K? I don't.

And, yes, the point I made in not attacking so much is valid, since it's one thing to respond to a series of attacks and then go when your opponents are on the ropes, another when you have worn yourself out riding an aggressive race, then not be able to respond when another capitalizes on your wasted efforts.

I'm not saying Gilbert isn't super strong, but he also has a sense of measure and proportion that Bettini at times lacked: and that this has played to his advantage (which is an honor to him), while it took away from the latter's.

My point was that when Bettini was on it didn't matter if he exaggerated or not, since he was so superior in a certain type of race that he could win anyway, and on several occasions actually did. And that his aggressive style was so entertaining to watch. For this reason, I still place him a 1/4 notch above the Belgian.

I place Bettini over Gilbert as well, but I don't think Bettini could have dropped this Gilbert on a hill like Saint-Nicholas, Mur de Huy, Cauberg, Roche aux Faucons and the likes.

Bettini has 2 extra monuments, 2 WC titles and an Olympic title. So right now, it's not even close. Though that might change if Phil wins the World next year and another Monument.

Bettini always tried to win at the Ronde, but wasn't good enough. It's not like he never tried or focused on them. Though in the later years, he did some great work for Boonen at the Ronde.

Gilbert is Belgian, but never the less has 2 podium spots at Milan-San Remo, won Piemonte twice, won Monte Paschi Strade Bianche(Tuscan roads!), won Copa Sabatini, won a Giro stage and won Il Lombardia twice. Not being Italian is a poor excuse IMO.

And let's be fair, Gilbert in top form is as unbeatable as Bettini was in top form.

 

[rhubroma]

I place Bettini over Gilbert as well, but I don't think Bettini could have dropped this Gilbert on a hill like Saint-Nicholas, Mur de Huy, Cauberg, Roche aux Faucons and the likes.

Bettini has 2 extra monuments, 2 WC titles and an Olympic title. So right now, it's not even close. Though that might change if Phil wins the World next year and another Monument.

Bettini always tried to win at the Ronde, but wasn't good enough. It's not like he never tried or focused on them. Though in the later years, he did some great work for Boonen at the Ronde.

Gilbert is Belgian, but never the less has 2 podium spots at Milan-San Remo, won Piemonte twice, won Monte Paschi Strade Bianche(Tuscan roads!), won Copa Sabatini, won a Giro stage and won Il Lombardia twice. Not being Italian is a poor excuse IMO.

And let's be fair, Gilbert in top form is as unbeatable as Bettini was in top form.

We agree to agree. One last thing, POALO BETTINI!!!!!!!!!!HA VINTO IL MONDIALE! HA VINTO! HA VINTO IL MONDIALE!!!!!!!INCREDIBILE!!!!!!!!

 

[El Pistolero]

We agree to agree. One last thing, POALO BETTINI!!!!!!!!!!HA VINTO IL MONDIALE! HA VINTO! HA VINTO IL MONDIALE!!!!!!!INCREDIBILE!!!!!!!!

Or

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1BY8_caWgBc

Love it when he's screaming Oro, oro, oro!