Best Climber All Things Being Equal

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The Hitch said:
Yeah, by this logic pretty much every Tour in over 2 decades has been won by a world class tt specialist.

Indurain 1991-5
Ullrich 1997
Armstrong 1999-2005
Landis 2006
Contador 2009-2010

The only exceptions are Riis 96, Pantani 98, Contador 2007 Sastre 2008 and Nibali 2014.

Makes sense considering those with the best programmes are the freshest for both mountains and tts.
Contador a better TTist than Riis. Seriously:rolleyes:
 
Jun 5, 2014
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Bavarianrider said:
Just for the record

Ullrich outclimbed Pantani in the 1997 tour

Andorra + 1:07 Ullrich
Croix de Chabouret + 1:30 Ullrich
Alpe d'Huez + 47 Pantani
Courchevel + 3:06 Ullrich
Morzine + 1:17 Pantani
That's true. Nothing against that. He had a phenomenal climbing level that year...similar to Indurain during 94-95. However Pantani was seriously ill on the way to Courchevel and considered retiring. Wouldn't have mattered however. 10 or 14 minutes doesn't make the difference.
 
Bavarianrider said:
Just for the record

Ullrich outclimbed Pantani in the 1997 tour

Andorra + 1:07 Ullrich
Croix de Chabouret + 1:30 Ullrich
Alpe d'Huez + 47 Pantani
Courchevel + 3:06 Ullrich
Morzine + 1:17 Pantani
I would not count Croix de Chaubouret as a real climb (14 km 5.7%), I have a difference of 1.17 by the way.
Pantani climbed Courchevel in fact faster then Ullrich (but started the climb in the second group)
Pantani: 55:16
Ullrich: 56:50
 
Cannavaro said:
I would not count Croix de Chaubouret as a real climb (14 km 5.7%), I have a difference of 1.17 by the way.
Pantani climbed Courchevel in fact faster then Ullrich (but started the climb in the second group)
Pantani: 55:16
Ullrich: 56:50
But he lost massive time on Glandon and Madeleine
 
Ryo Hazuki said:
of course he was. riis was a joke of a rider "all things being equal"
Obviously this is true. Even if I used to love Riis..

When it comes to Contador, I think he have been a joke from time to time as well. I mean him beating Spartacus in a TDF time trial. If that is not joke..
 
Mar 31, 2010
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Samson777 said:
Obviously this is true. Even if I used to love Riis..

When it comes to Contador, I think he have been a joke from time to time as well. I mean him beating Spartacus in a TDF time trial. If that is not joke..
after 3 weeks of cycling climbers recuperate better than non climbers. contador also has great recuperation in general. I don't think it was nealry as bad as the mid 2000s vuelta's final itt where guys like santi perez or heras would blow away the greatest itt specialists
 
Mar 31, 2010
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Bavarianrider said:
I think you missunderstood me.

If "all things are equal" surely Contador would havebeen considered a climber and not a TTist.
Whly surely Riis would have been a better natural TTist than climber.
ok. my bad then.

still it's not as easy to say some light guy is a climber and a heavy guy more itt. brajkovic has got to be the most anorexic rider ever and he was more and itt guy than a climber I think. I think ugrumov who was very light only started to increase his climbing due to epo. before he was more a a medium itt rider
 
Aug 4, 2011
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Dr. Juice said:
Lance did not even come close to what Pantani was in terms of climbing. That one day on Hautacam vs a shadow of the old Pantani :rolleyes: .

7 W/kg for 50 minutes like in Montecampione 1998 or 36:40 - 36:50 up Alpe d' Huez are numbers Lance could dream of. Lance going against vintage Pantani would have made the control freak paranoid ( well, he still almost went paranoid calling Dr.Ferrari during the TdF 2000). I just don't want to start another discussion as this isn't the right thread.

All in all...LeMond had an incredible talent (in general)....Pantani also (climbing) ...and if we go back...most people who lived in that age swear that Coppi was out of this world...he recorded some climbing times which were unbelievable if you consider the fact how bad the roads and how heavy the bikes were.
Disagree, Armstrong was never really fully tested when at his peak.
He won very easily and don't forget when he rode away from Pantani he was talking in his radio. His catch at the ventoux was easy.
Ferrari said he was waiting for an Armstrong to come along.
 
May 11, 2014
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ray j willings said:
Disagree, Armstrong was never really fully tested when at his peak.
He won very easily and don't forget when he rode away from Pantani he was talking in his radio. His catch at the ventoux was easy.
Ferrari said he was waiting for an Armstrong to come along.
Pantani was minutes off form in 2000. Look at his 2000 Hautacum time opposed to his '94 time, over 6 minutes slower in 2000, and he was much better in '99 than '94. Sure, Armstrong's catch at Ventoux was easy, but how easy would it have been if Pantani was 2 minutes up the road opposed to 25 seconds?
 
Aug 1, 2011
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DirtyWorks said:
From what is understood about Chicken, his entire career was the classic "zero to hero on dope." Off his doping cycle, the guy had no results. On cycle, look out! Landis would be far superior.

You may recall his TdF run with Leinders preparing him. The story somewhere is even Lienders was trying to slow Chicken down on the doping. Zorzoli makes a guest appearance clearing the way in the same story.
How do you assume Landis would be better? You believe his words? The Chicken won WC MTB, Polka Jersey, and would have won the TDF if not for all the BS. I believe in the chicken, more than landis. But I could be fooled.
 
Aug 4, 2011
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Amazinmets73 said:
Pantani was minutes off form in 2000. Look at his 2000 Hautacum time opposed to his '94 time, over 6 minutes slower in 2000, and he was much better in '99 than '94. Sure, Armstrong's catch at Ventoux was easy, but how easy would it have been if Pantani was 2 minutes up the road opposed to 25 seconds?
You could be right but IMO Armstrong was never put to the sword when riding at his peak and the ease in which he kicked Pantani's ***, I think pirate would have only got 2 minutes if Armstrong let him.
I am a big Pantani fan but watching him getting dropped by Armstrong and Armstrong chatting on the radio I just don't think the Pirate could beat him.

I would be more interested to see how LA at his peak could have handled a juicy Contador or Chicken or even Ricco
 
Mar 11, 2009
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Wasn't Pantani a husk of his former self in the 2000 Tour who had just returned to racing in the Giro?
 
Jun 30, 2014
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ray j willings said:
You could be right but IMO Armstrong was never put to the sword when riding at his peak and the ease in which he kicked Pantani's ***, I think pirate would have only got 2 minutes if Armstrong let him.
I am a big Pantani fan but watching him getting dropped by Armstrong and Armstrong chatting on the radio I just don't think the Pirate could beat him.

I would be more interested to see how LA at his peak could have handled a juicy Contador or Chicken or even Ricco
Are we talking about overall GT or just cimbing? Overall GT rider you could choose Contador, but Riccò more interesting than 1998-99 Pantani, have you ever seen pre-2000 Pantani in action?
One guy that I'm always thinking about is Gilberto Simoni, how much of a real talent was he? He had tons of panache.
 

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