Best sprinter ever?

[zigmeister]

Cippo for the time being but Cavendish will overtake him in the near future, IMO.

For most influential though Van Looy is the grandfather of the modern trains we see today.

Maertens was voracious in his appetite to win in the sprints as evidenced by his Vuelta win.

A little treat for you

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LLhp5c79xuY

Check out no 24.
Part 2 & Part 3 as well.

I'm not so sure. Cav doesn't have Renshaw and the HTC train anymore where almost all of his wins were with that team.

Who knows how it will play out with his new team.

 

[jordan5000]

Jean-Paul van Poppel has got to be up there with about 20 odd GT stages. And what about Oscar Freire's 3 rainbow jerseys?

Although I must say these "Who's the best ever?" threads are a bit silly really as most of the people mentioned never raced each other, at least not at their peaks, so it is impossible to say!!

**edit** OP can't claim Lance for this one!!

Really dude? F off, I wasn't going to try and claim him for this one, just because I tried to argue that he is one of the greatest climbers ever does not make me a fanboy who will talk about him at any moment.

 

[happychappy]

Cav, clearly.

 

[Midnightfright]

I'm not so sure. Cav doesn't have Renshaw and the HTC train anymore where almost all of his wins were with that team.

Who knows how it will play out with his new team.

I do think his win rate will go down slightly, but he will still have a resonable train in most races/stages he wants one and he is the fastest sprinter in the world so should still win plenty. You never know he could do the Robbie Mcewen role and still win 5 stages at the tour.

 

[Old School]

Agreed

Jean-Paul van Poppel has got to be up there with about 20 odd GT stages. And what about Oscar Freire's 3 rainbow jerseys?

Although I must say these "Who's the best ever?" threads are a bit silly really as most of the people mentioned never raced each other, at least not at their peaks, so it is impossible to say!!

**edit** OP can't claim Lance for this one!!

Yes, Jean-Paul van Poppel....as i stated last year in the same forum question.

 

[Midnightfright]

Jean-Paul van Poppel has got to be up there with about 20 odd GT stages. And what about Oscar Freire's 3 rainbow jerseys?

Although I must say these "Who's the best ever?" threads are a bit silly really as most of the people mentioned never raced each other, at least not at their peaks, so it is impossible to say!!

**edit** OP can't claim Lance for this one!!

Well he did have quite the kick in his younger days.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Was the stage you were refering to really a mountain stage? From my memory it was more a transition stage.EBH won a fairly similar stage as well this year. Both impressive bit think.it may be a bit of a stretch to call then mountain stages.

To be fair, EBH isn't really a sprinter, he just sprints a fair bit. It'd be a bit unfair to include the likes of Bettini in here, so I won't include Boasson Hagen either. The same goes for the guy who mentioned Hincapie in '05, since Hincapie's even less of a sprinter.

But also to be fair, the stage into Lourdes this year that Hushovd won was as much a mountain stage as the one Abdoujaparov won in '96 - more a medium mountain stage. However, while Thor caught the guys that had attacked him on the climb on the descent and flat into the finish, Abdou actually attacked his break mates on the short uphill into the finish to take the win.

I don't know anything of the Barry Hoban stage in 1968, so anybody who cares to enlighten me please do, and I will duly give props to the British strongman. I see the finish was in Sallanches from Grenoble, so are we talking descent from the Saisies?

However, an excellent rider though Hoban was, I will argue that the Tashkent Terror is probably the superior sprinter overall.

 

[blutto]

Lol yeah, great bike handling to be able to do that at that velocity.
One of my favourite riders definatley.

Speed wise it has to be Cipo followed by Cav, Zabel more consistent and was able to climb fairly well, Petacci cant be underestimated - that year he took 8 Giro stages he must of been on fire.

...don't mean to be picky here but Petacchi actually took 9 stages that year...and several were won by a number of bike-lengths...he was absolutely dominating...and a class act to boot...my fave along with Oscar ( and an honourable mention to Marcel Wust who had great results despite riding for teams made up of tiny climbers....as in he never ever had a lead-out...)

Cheers

blutto

 

[Midnightfright]

To be fair, EBH isn't really a sprinter, he just sprints a fair bit. It'd be a bit unfair to include the likes of Bettini in here, so I won't include Boasson Hagen either. The same goes for the guy who mentioned Hincapie in '05, since Hincapie's even less of a sprinter.

But also to be fair, the stage into Lourdes this year that Hushovd won was as much a mountain stage as the one Abdoujaparov won in '96 - more a medium mountain stage. However, while Thor caught the guys that had attacked him on the climb on the descent and flat into the finish, Abdou actually attacked his break mates on the short uphill into the finish to take the win.

I don't know anything of the Barry Hoban stage in 1968, so anybody who cares to enlighten me please do, and I will duly give props to the British strongman. I see the finish was in Sallanches from Grenoble, so are we talking descent from the Saisies?

However, an excellent rider though Hoban was, I will argue that the Tashkent Terror is probably the superior sprinter overall.

It was actually me who mentioned Hincapie, I couldn't resist just being cheeky really. Agree EBH isn't just a sprinter altough he would make a very good one. He's so skilled you can't labek him a certain rider watching him shell people on climbs at the Dauphine amongst other things.

 

[El Pistolero]

Tom Steels never had a good leadout either. Sassi once said that Steels could have matched Cipo if he gave him a lead out train.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

It was actually me who mentioned Hincapie, I couldn't resist just being cheeky really. Agree EBH isn't just a sprinter altough he would make a very good one. He's so skilled you can't labek him a certain rider watching him shell people on climbs at the Dauphine amongst other things.

the problem is, "sprinter" is a difficult thing to quantify. A lot of people are quite obviously sprinters, but it's a continuum of course.

I remember somebody talking about a "sprinter" jersey on here, for best placed GC man who is considered a sprinter, and I then said, how do you draw the lines as to who is a sprinter? Because the thing is, if you restrict it to "people who've come in the top 5 in a bunch sprint", then you wind up with somebody like Valverde being eligible for it, even though he's clearly not a sprinter and would decimate the competition for such a jersey, while if you go for the opposite approach and say "nobody who's come top 5 in a mountain stage" then people like Abdoujaparov, Hushovd and Óscar Freire, all of whom are clearly sprinters, would be eliminated.

I guess it's all a matter of interpretation. Despite his winning the nationals in a two-up sprint after going with a climber on the hills, and him and Costa dusting the breakaway in the Tour de Suisse last year, I still think José Joaquín Rojas is a sprinter, whereas despite continual decent placements in sprints I still think Edvald Boasson Hagen is more of an all-round kind of guy (I usually make the comparison to Bettini, though EBH can't climb as well as him yet).

 

[rhubroma]

Cipollini was the fastest I've ever seen.

Yea but this Cav sure seems to be on track for being the fastest ever, if he already hasn't surpassed the Italian.

Having said that, while Cav may be faster, he in no way comes even close to the style and class of Super Mario.

 

[El Pistolero]

I think Cancellara would make a good sprinter if he trained on it(although he shouldn't).

As for Valverde, he's no sprinter. I don't even think Boonen is a sprinter and he's clearly faster than Valverde. These guys are just very very powerful man. Valverde on the hills and climbs. Boonen on the flat, cobbles and small power hills like those in Flanders and Dutch Limburg.

 

[Midnightfright]

the problem is, "sprinter" is a difficult thing to quantify. A lot of people are quite obviously sprinters, but it's a continuum of course.

I remember somebody talking about a "sprinter" jersey on here, for best placed GC man who is considered a sprinter, and I then said, how do you draw the lines as to who is a sprinter? Because the thing is, if you restrict it to "people who've come in the top 5 in a bunch sprint", then you wind up with somebody like Valverde being eligible for it, even though he's clearly not a sprinter and would decimate the competition for such a jersey, while if you go for the opposite approach and say "nobody who's come top 5 in a mountain stage" then people like Abdoujaparov, Hushovd and Óscar Freire, all of whom are clearly sprinters, would be eliminated.

I guess it's all a matter of interpretation. Despite his winning the nationals in a two-up sprint after going with a climber on the hills, and him and Costa dusting the breakaway in the Tour de Suisse last year, I still think José Joaquín Rojas is a sprinter, whereas despite continual decent placements in sprints I still think Edvald Boasson Hagen is more of an all-round kind of guy (I usually make the comparison to Bettini, though EBH can't climb as well as him yet).

I like the comparison between EBH and Bettini and wouldn't be surprised to see him evolve into a very similar rider.

 

[rhubroma]

I like the comparison between EBH and Bettini and wouldn't be surprised to see him evolve into a very similar rider.

But EBH and il Grilo, while both are/were quite fast, the former doesn't have that "oh my god how does he dig so deep again quality about him".

It's like Bettini actually liked to hurt himself, otherwise there was no thrill in being the victor, or perhaps it was his only way of winning. Whereas EBH makes it just look so easy, like when he soloed for that stage win on the narrow ascent in the Giro this year.

PS: Bettini at his World's victories, though, would have smoked EBH hands down.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

I think Cancellara would make a good sprinter if he trained on it(although he shouldn't).

As for Valverde, he's no sprinter. I don't even think Boonen is a sprinter and he's clearly faster than Valverde. These guys are just very very powerful man. Valverde on the hills and climbs. Boonen on the flat, cobbles and small power hills like those in Flanders and Dutch Limburg.

No, Valverde most definitely is not a sprinter. He's an all-rounder for the hilly and mountainous (but not TOO mountainous) races, who happens to have a pretty mean sprint on him, one that's better than most of the people he usually finds himself going to the finish with on the kind of stages he and his competitors can win. But that was precisely the point - when setting the parameters for a 'sprinter' jersey, you can't set it on excluding people who've done well on mountain stages when the likes of Hushovd, Freire and Abdoujaparov have won or placed highly in them, but you can't set it on including anyone who's done well in bunch sprints either, as people like Valverde and Evans have got up in the mix when there's been a tricky run-in or the bunch has been thinned out a bit, and they clearly aren't sprinters and would ace such a classification.

 

[La Pandera]

My early candidates would be:
Mark Cavendish, Alessandro Petachi, Mario Cipollini and Erik Zabel. Please give your opinions. Thanks.

You do realize that there was lots of cycling going prior to the 1990's? Freddie Maertens has to be given consideration among others.

You may want to take a look at Alfredo Binda for a candidate in your best climber's thread.

 

[La Pandera]

Alessandro Pettachi - the guy is flamboyant, fast, suave and wins a lot of sprints. I don't really care if he has been suspended for taking a little too much asthma medicaion.

I've always thought of Petacchi as relatively conservative and far from flamboyant. Definitely not on the same level of Cavendish and Cipo but I really love his style of sprinting nonetheless. Has a very fluid sprint, beautiful to behold.

 

[La Pandera]

Really dude? F off, I wasn't going to try and claim him for this one, just because I tried to argue that he is one of the greatest climbers ever does not make me a fanboy who will talk about him at any moment.

Lighten up, it was a clearly a joke.

 

[La Pandera]

...don't mean to be picky here but Petacchi actually took 9 stages that year...and several were won by a number of bike-lengths...he was absolutely dominating...and a class act to boot...my fave along with Oscar ( and an honourable mention to Marcel Wust who had great results despite riding for teams made up of tiny climbers....as in he never ever had a lead-out...)

Cheers

blutto

Yep, my all time favorite sprinter's list would be Freire, Petacchi, Cipo and Maertens. Now who is the best all time would take a great deal of research and watching old video's.

 

[Archibald]

Took him until 30 to win his first jersey, 12 Tours for 12 stages vs 5 Tours for 20 stages.......

Cavendish may not have as many Maillots Verts but he's only just begun....

true, and cav has one more maillot vert than Cipollini, who also has only 12 TdF stage wins, yet many believe him to be a greater sprinter than Cav.

I think Cav will overtake them for stage wins, but both Robbie and Cippo have more stage victories (overall) than Cav has (for now).
All comes down to the criteria used for judging this...

 

[AngusW]

To be fair, EBH isn't really a sprinter, he just sprints a fair bit. It'd be a bit unfair to include the likes of Bettini in here, so I won't include Boasson Hagen either. The same goes for the guy who mentioned Hincapie in '05, since Hincapie's even less of a sprinter.

But also to be fair, the stage into Lourdes this year that Hushovd won was as much a mountain stage as the one Abdoujaparov won in '96 - more a medium mountain stage. However, while Thor caught the guys that had attacked him on the climb on the descent and flat into the finish, Abdou actually attacked his break mates on the short uphill into the finish to take the win.

I don't know anything of the Barry Hoban stage in 1968, so anybody who cares to enlighten me please do, and I will duly give props to the British strongman. I see the finish was in Sallanches from Grenoble, so are we talking descent from the Saisies?

However, an excellent rider though Hoban was, I will argue that the Tashkent Terror is probably the superior sprinter overall.

Difficult to argue with that one (5 GT points wins vs 0, 9 TdeF stages vs 8).

The only account I've read about Hoban's stage win at Sallanches was in his auto-biography. From memory, he broke away solo early on, was joined by a dangerous GC rider (Bitossi?), refused to work with him and continued alone (after Bitossi or whoever it was had dropped back to the peleton) and ended up winning alone by 50 seconds or so from the next group. As a prize for winning the stage he was given a cow.

 

[Kellys Big Sprocket]

eerrrrr what age is everyone on this forum ? . Anyone recall King Kellys exploits when it came down to the sprint ?. Get back to your homework you lot

 

[Midnightfright]

eerrrrr what age is everyone on this forum ? . Anyone recall King Kellys exploits when it came down to the sprint ?. Get back to your homework you lot

Sean Kelly = poor man's Laurent Jalabert

 

[Cobblestoned]

So what about the poll now ?
Jordan, don't forget to add ALL the names named here, or you will be in trouble again.

For me it's hard to say because different eras are always hard to compare.
What is clear, that I miss the good old days with real sprinting when Abdu was still around.
Can't pick a winner, but for sure I nominate:

- Cavendish
- Cippollini
- Zabel
- Maertens
- Petacchi