Best Time Trial Rider of All Time

[hiero2]

You guys certainly do a great job with the numbers you provided and I am thankful for that. As for me, I will be satisfied that all those mentioned were indeed great ITT riders and revere Indurain since I saw him performing live and remember Anquetil as Master Jacques who thrilled my childhood and won a mountain stage of the 50th edition of the tour in my home town when i was just 18. Can't believe we are now going to see the 100th edition possibly decided in the final TT

I agree with you about the guys providing numbers. The average difference to the 2nd rider sounds like one reasonable metric over the years and changing equipment. Who are the holders of the hour record? Every one of them should be on the long list, at least.

Personally, I would have to exclude Big Mig from any final results, given the era he rode in. Any rider from that - what, decade and a half? - needs an asterisk. I would also include Cancellara, and I am sure there must be some other riders who did nearly as well as Anquetil at TTing, but just at TTing.

 

[rghysens]

Personally, I would have to exclude Big Mig from any final results, given the era he rode in.

It maybe be unwise to go further on that quote, but you should exclude Coppi, Anquetil and Merckx too, then.

 

[Dedelou]

No way Cancellara is even close to be the greatest time trialist of all time. Put some hills into a TT and he becomes ordinary.

To me, Indurain and Merckx are shoulder-to-shoulder for that title, followed by Ullrich.

The numbers always favor Anquetil. He has the "most" win in TdF ITT plus the giro ITT and the 9 grand prix des nations and the few trophees barrachi, and the hour record for his period.but then we can see Merckx and Indurain

 

[Cookster15]

Why is this thread necessary when the winner has surely been decided in the thread with the poll? Having said this, I can only speak for riders I have seen - Jacques Anquetil was obviously a TT freek judging by what others have posted.

 

[Bavarianrider]

Ullrich at his best is the best.

 

[Descender]

Ullrich at his best is the best.

I swear I've never seen a more patriotic German than you.

 

[will10]

I swear I've never seen a more patriotic German than you.

Nah, that was Penny from back in the day on PPDB

 

[Bavarianrider]

I swear I've never seen a more patriotic German than you.

I am not a patriotic German at all.
In fact i don't like most Germans and if i had one wish it would be an independent Bavaria.
So me liking Tony or Ullrich is not because they are German.

 

[SiAp1984]

and if i had one wish it would be an independent Bavaria.

Have you read Scharnagles latest book? However, you should grant independence to Franconia as well, then ;-)

Topic: Jan Ullrich - I am still a huge fan of him - did only four remarkable time trials during his career. 1995 when he killed Indurain. 1997 when he rode the best TdF-ITT ever passing the second-placed rider on the road (St. Etienne). 1999 when he won the penultimate stage of his Vuelta, putting almost 3 minutes into the second-placed rider over only 46 km. And 2003 when he dominated Armstrong by almost 2 minutes. However, he did not win enough (important) ITTs during his career to consider him the greatest of all time. 2 world titles, but with average rides, but no Olympic gold, no huge bunch of early-season-wins at one-week-races like Suisse, Deutschland-Tour and so on (heck, even AC used to score lots of such ITT-victories...). So I also vote for Indurain.

 

[No_Balls]

Calling a one time Tour-winner "the best ever" TT´ist is insane. Enough with this patriotic nonsense.

Indurain takes this easily.

 

[rainman]

I'm trying to imagine a start list containing Indurain, Anquetil, Wiggins, Martin, Merckx, Ullrich, Olano and Cancellara all at the top of their form, on say a 50km course, not dead flat but not too hilly and sans all clinic issues.....hmm.

Who would win? The above would be my finishing order.

And Beryl Burton the womens ITT.

 

[hiero2]

It maybe be unwise to go further on that quote, but you should exclude Coppi, Anquetil and Merckx too, then.

Yes, that is why I was so circumspect to begin with. However, for the reasons that Laurent Fignon stated about the change in the status of cycling effort about 1990, it is now a matter of reality that I must discount, or at least asterisk, performances from 1990 until 2009 (approximately).

Also because of that change that Fignon remarked on, I do not equivalently discount Coppi, Anquetil, or Merckx.

This is becoming difficult, as the compromised efforts are, I think, no longer speculative, but historic. That Coppi and Anquetil used the techniques available to them is not in question. They have said so publicly. Merckx is, to my knowledge, still a denier, and therefore in speculation. However, and I am leaning on Fignon again, what they did was an entirely different story than what was done after 1990.

 

[hiero2]

I'm trying to imagine a start list containing Indurain, Anquetil, Wiggins, Martin, Merckx, Ullrich, Olano and Cancellara all at the top of their form, on say a 50km course, not dead flat but not too hilly and sans all clinic issues.....hmm.

Who would win? The above would be my finishing order.

And Beryl Burton the womens ITT.

We-ell. With that start list, my trifecta would be completely different. And, hey, what about Coppi?
Your start list:
Anquetil,
Merckx
Cancellara
Indurain,
Wiggins
Martin
Ullrich
Olano

But, I like better
Anquetil,
Merckx
Coppi
Cancellara

 

[The Hitch]

I'm trying to imagine a start list containing Indurain, Anquetil, Wiggins, Martin, Merckx, Ullrich, Olano and Cancellara all at the top of their form, on say a 50km course, not dead flat but not too hilly and sans all clinic issues.....hmm.

Who would win? The above would be my finishing order.

And Beryl Burton the womens ITT.

Wiggins and Martin above Merckx Ullrich Cancellara.

Are you on crack?

 

[hiero2]

Wiggins and Martin above Merckx Ullrich Cancellara.

Are you on crack?

Hitch, you crack me up!

 

[AngusW]

Bernard Hinault deserves consideration ahead of the likes of Martin, Cancellara, Wiggins, Ullrich & Olano.

No ITT worlds during his pro career
No Olympics for pros during his career, but:

5 GP des Nations

Tour de France: 8 starts, 7 finishes.

28 stage wins, 20 ITT wins, including 5 prologues. He won short, medium and long TTs and mountain TTs. His ratio of TT wins to TdF starts is second to none.

The poll about the best TTer amazingly did not include Hinault, but did include Michael Rogers who is yet to win one TdF time trial.

I find it sad that so few people on this thread seem to rate his ability in the TT.

 

[Bavarianrider]

Calling a one time Tour-winner "the best ever" TT´ist is insane. Enough with this patriotic nonsense.

Indurain takes this easily.

Well you know cycling wasn't just about how good you are naturally in those days.
Look what Ullrich did in 1996-1998 at age 22-24.
Nuff said. Most gifted TTlist of all time.

 

[rainman]

Wiggins and Martin above Merckx Ullrich Cancellara.

Are you on crack?

Not my thing.

Only in this context. Wiggins and Martin are TT specialists. They couldn't have lived with the GT greats in a tour. With Cancellara its a finer line. In a prologue he would probably take them out, in a cobbled classic destroy them, but in a 50km TT I dont think so.

Oh boy this is fun Now for some fresh air.

 

[Echoes]

Yes, that is why I was so circumspect to begin with. However, for the reasons that Laurent Fignon stated about the change in the status of cycling effort about 1990, it is now a matter of reality that I must discount, or at least asterisk, performances from 1990 until 2009 (approximately).

Also because of that change that Fignon remarked on, I do not equivalently discount Coppi, Anquetil, or Merckx.

More or less agree. Though some things started before, 1990 was a turning point. However why do you stop it in 2009? I wish you were right but I mean Grabowsky, lol.

And Fignon was definitely not the first to notice that. Personally it was already my theory before he published his book and he just confirmed my thoughts.

That Coppi and Anquetil used the techniques available to them is not in question. They have said so publicly. Merckx is, to my knowledge, still a denier, and therefore in speculation. However, and I am leaning on Fignon again, what they did was an entirely different story than what was done after 1990.

Merckx is definitely not a denier. He admitted the 1977 test. And it was not the most efficient 'technique' available to him at that time.

And these were stuff that you could only occasionally take one day or another. The side effects were very harsh. So yeah a different story.

The numbers always favor Anquetil. He has the "most" win in TdF ITT plus the giro ITT and the 9 grand prix des nations and the few trophees barrachi, and the hour record for his period.but then we can see Merckx and Indurain

There's more to cycling than just Bore de France. Merckx could've won 15 Nations GP if he wanted to but to him winning a dozen time the same race didn't matter. He won it only once and that was enough for him. All he really wanted to do is winning as many different races as he could, and once was enough.

He's always said that records did not count, the only record that counts is the Hour record. By the way he broke Anquetil's records. Though I remember I had an interesting discussion with Le Breton, I think about the altitude of Mexico vs Vigorelli. Anyway Bracke broke Anquetil's record.

By the way, as I said, winning a an 'in line' race after a long solo is already in itself a great display of TT skills, you don't have to win only TT's to show you're a TT specialist.

 

[barmaher]

In his 7 Tour de France wins, Lance Armstrong rode in 14 Time Trials, winning 9. Of the remaining 5, he achieved 4 2nd places and 1 3rd place.

He rode a total of 623.5km in those time trials, and his total winning seconds (adding the win margins and subtracting the loss margins was 223 seconds. This corresponds to an average winning margin of 15.9 seconds, or 0.36 seconds per kilometer.

Further below you will find all of Armstrong’s time trial performances in his seven tour wins. But more importantly, here is the table comparing the Tour de France performances of the three riders analysed so far. I know there is more to time trialling than the Tour de France, but it still gives a good indication.

Time Trials
Anque 12
Ind 10
Arm 14

Wins
Anque 11
Ind 8
Arm 9

Average Position
Anque 92%
Ind 80%
Arm 64%

Kilometers Raced
Anque 478.2
Ind 578
Arm 623.5

Winning Seconds
Anque 784
Ind 328
Arm 223

Average Win
Anque 65.3
Ind 32.8
Arm 15.9

Per Kilometer
Anque 1.64
Ind 0.57
Arm 0.36

1999 Tour

Stage 8, Metz - Metz ITT, 56 kms: AVS: 49.417 km/h

1. Lance Armstrong (USA) US Postal 1.08.36
2. Alex Zülle (Swi) Banesto 0.57
3. Christophe Moreau (Fra) Festina 2.04
4. Abraham Olano (Spa) ONCE-Deutsche Bank 2.21
5. Tyler Hamilton (USA) US Postal 3.30

Stage 19, Futuroscope ITT, 57 kms: AVS: 50.085 km/h

1. Lance Armstrong (USA) US Postal 1.08.17
2. Alex Zülle (Swi) Banesto 0.09
3. Tyler Hamilton (USA) US Postal 1.34
4. Angel Casero (Spa) Vitalicio Seguros 1.36
5. Rik Verbrugghe (Bel) Lotto-Mobistar 2.02

2000 Tour

Stage 1 - July 1: Futuroscope Individual Time Trial, 16.5 km

1. David Millar (GBr) Cofidis 19.03.11 (51.968 km/h)
2. Lance Armstrong (USA) US Postal Service 0.02
3. Laurent Jalabert (Fra) ONCE-Deutsche Bank 0.13
4. Jan Ullrich (Ger) Telekom-ARD 0.14
5. David Canada (Spa) ONCE-Deutsche Bank 0.16

Stage 19 - July 21: Fribourg-En-Brisgau - Mulhouse, 58.5 km

1 Lance Armstrong (USA) US Postal Service 1.05.01 (53.98 km/h)
2 Jan Ullrich (Ger) Team Deutsche Telekom 0.25
3 Christophe Moreau (Fra) Festina 2.12
4 Tyler Hamilton (USA) US Postal Service 3.01
5 Joseba Beloki (Spa) Festina 3.26

2001 Tour

Stage 11 - July 18: Grenoble - Chamrousse, Mountain ITT, 32 km

1 Lance Armstrong (USA) US Postal Service 1.07.27 (28.47 km/h)
2 Jan Ullrich (Ger) Telekom 1.00
3 Joseba Beloki (Spa) ONCE-Eroski 1.35
4 Roberto Laiseka (Spa) Euskaltel-Euskadi 2.03
5 Oscar Sevilla (Spa) Kelme-Costa Blanca 2.24

Stage 18 - July 27: Montlucon - Saint Amand Montrond ITT, 61 km

1 Lance Armstrong (USA) US Postal Service 1.14.16 (49.28 km/h)
2 Igor Gonzalez De Galdeano (Spa) ONCE-Eroski 1.24
3 Jan Ullrich (Ger) Telekom 1.39
4 Didier Rous (Fra) Bonjour 2.25
5 Marcos Serrano (Spa) ONCE-Eroski

2002 Tour

Stage 9 - Monday July 15, 2002: Lanester - Lorient ITT, 52 km

1 Santiago Botero (Col) Kelme-Costa Blanca 1.02.19 (50.08 km/h)
2 Lance Armstrong (USA) US Postal Service 0.11
3 Serguei Gontchar (Ukr) Fassa Bortolo 0.18
4 Igor Gonzalez de Galdeano (Spa) ONCE-Eroski 0.19
5 Laszlo Bodrogi (Hun) Mapei-Quick Step 0.25

Stage 19 - Saturday July 27: Regnie-Durette-Macon, Individual TT, 50 km

1 Lance Armstrong (USA) US Postal Service 1.03.50 (47.0 km/h)
2 Raimondas Rumsas (Ltu) Lampre Daikin 0.52
3 Laszlo Bodrogi (Hun) Mapei-Quick Step 1.06
4 David Millar (GBr) Cofidis 1.14
5 Igor Gonzalez de Galdeano (Spa) ONCE-Eroski 1.42

2003 Tour

Stage 12 - Friday, July 18: Gaillac - Cap' Découverte, TT, 47 km

1 Jan Ullrich (Ger) Team Bianchi 58.32.92 (48.178 km/h)
2 Lance Armstrong (USA) US Postal-Berry Floor 1.36
3 Alexandre Vinokourov (Kaz) Team Telekom 2.06
4 Haimar Zubeldia (Spa) Euskaltel-Euskadi 2.40
5 Tyler Hamilton (USA) Team CSC 2.43

Stage 19 - Saturday, July 26: Pornic - Nantes, TT, 49 km

1 David Millar (GBr) Cofidis, Credit Par Telephone 54.05 (54.36 km/h)
2 Tyler Hamilton (USA) Team CSC 0.09
3 Lance Armstrong (USA) US Postal-Berry Floor 0.14
4 Jan Ullrich (Ger) Team Bianchi 0.25
5 Laszlo Bodrogi (Hun) Quick.Step-Davitamon 0.26

2004 Tour

Stage 16 - July 21: Bourg d'Oisans - Alpe d'Huez ITT, 15.5 km

1 Lance Armstrong (USA) US Postal p/b Berry Floor 39.41 (23.44 km/h)
2 Jan Ullrich (Ger) T-Mobile Team 1.01
3 Andreas Klöden (Ger) T-Mobile Team 1.41
4 Jose Azevedo (Por) US Postal p/b Berry Floor 1.45
5 Santos Gonzalez (Spa) Phonak Hearing Systems 2.11

Stage 19 - July 24: Besancon - Besancon ITT, 55 km

1 Lance Armstrong (USA) US Postal p/b Berry Floor 1.06.49 (9.39 km/h)
2 Jan Ullrich (Ger) T-Mobile Team 1.01
3 Andreas Klöden (Ger) T-Mobile Team 1.27
4 Floyd Landis (USA) US Postal p/b Berry Floor 2.25
5 Bobby Julich (USA) Team CSC 2.48

2005 Tour

Stage 1 - Saturday, July 2: Fromentine - Noirmoutier-en-l'Ile ITT, 19 km

1 David Zabriskie (USA) Team CSC 20.51 (54.67 km/h)
2 Lance Armstrong (USA) Discovery Channel 0.02
3 Alexandre Vinokourov (Kaz) T-Mobile Team 0.53
4 George Hincapie (USA) Discovery Channel 0.57
5 Laszlo Bodrogi (Hun) Credit Agricole 0.59

Stage 20 - Saturday, July 23: Saint-Etienne - Saint-Etienne ITT, 55 km

1 Lance Armstrong (USA) Discovery Channel 1.11.46 (56.4 km/h)
2 Jan Ullrich (Ger) T-Mobile Team 0.23
3 Alexandre Vinokourov (Kaz) T-Mobile Team 1.16
4 Bobby Julich (USA) Team CSC 1.33
5 Ivan Basso (Ita) Team CSC 1.54

 

[Lanark]

In his 7 Tour de France wins, Lance Armstrong rode in 14 Time Trials, winning 9. Of the remaining 5, he achieved 4 2nd places and 1 3rd place.4

Hmmm, weird. I think you made a mistake. Lance Armstrong never won the Tour the France. A bit silly to analyse results that don't exist anymore.

 

[jens_attacks]

lance was a god in those itt's but he's not even close to the title of the topic

for me, anquetil and big mig are the best in history.

 

[SeriousSam]

He's pretty close. Tour ITTs are some of the most important TTs and he was very dominant.

 

[barmaher]

Hmmm, weird. I think you made a mistake. Lance Armstrong never won the Tour the France. A bit silly to analyse results that don't exist anymore.

Silly me. 10chars