Better all rounder Squalo vs Samu.

[The Hitch]

From the all rounder thread, I was interested in what others think about the following debate so wanted to see in a poll.

Who is a better all rounder, Samuel Sanchez or Vincenzo Nibali.

I love both riders and Nibali can improve yet, but for me Sanchez has proven over the last few years that he is easily a tter, a better climber and better in 1 day races.

He is also clearly a better sprinter.

Nibali is a better descender obviously, but Sanchez is probably the 2nd best descender from all the GC contenders so its close.

Thats how I see it, what do you think.

 

[Parrulo]

atm samu is a better al rounder then nibbles.

time will tell if it will stay that way or nibali will improve a bit

 

[Michielveedeebee]

They're pretty close imo, Nibbles could improve in hills and TT. But Samu is 6 years older than Nibali.

Depends on how much Nibali improves. Atm Sammy but who knows who has been the best in 5 years?

 

[Greenflame]

At the moment, Sanchez. He's the better climber by some distance, slightly better time triallist, and more proven hilly classic rider. In descending they're both awesome, and I think both would have a hard time dropping the other. When sprinting I'd think Sanchez would probably take it, but neither of them is great or terrible.

Neither of them has any very great or awful performances on cobbles or other non-road surfaces. Sanchez didn't do great at the 2010 Tour on the cobbles, but not terribly had either. Nibali was decent during the 2010 Giro on the strade bianchi (despite a fall and taking care of Basso), which are of course not as challenging as the cobbles of Roubaix. In other words, no definite winner here.

So Sanchez has to be the best allrounder of the two at the moment.

 

[hfer07]

can't quite establish the difference- Samu excels more, but is due to his age & experience, while Nibali is getting better as he matures/develops year after year
Overall both amazing riders nonetheless..

 

[maltiv]

Samu is the better climber, TTer, sprinter and classics rider, so quite easy to decide really. But he doesn't ride as smart as Nibali in GTs.

 

[airstream]

Nibali is more stable as a climber, though I can not answer if he would be able to be so stable participating in the Tour. All the rest is self-evident. But my voice goes to Nibali all along of spirit of contradiction.

 

[theyoungest]

Samuel Sanchez is a better climber, a better time trialist, a better sprinter, and used to be a pretty good descender (haven't seen any evidence of that lately). So it's Sammy Sanchez, by a country mile.

 

[cineteq]

Sammy Sanchez is too inconsistent. Lo Squalo easily takes it.

 

[Ferminal]

Sammy Sanchez is too inconsistent. Lo Squalo easily takes it.

In what way?

 

[Timmy-loves-Rabo]

Sammy Sanchez is too inconsistent. Lo Squalo easily takes it.

neither are great examples of all round riders. Both seem determined in regards to GTs and the occasional short race. Neither have had much luck (recently) in classics.

Samu is better, but nibbles probably better at getting the most from himself.

 

[The Hitch]

In what way?

cineteq is just trolling as always. Hence no explanation as always.

In the other thread he says that Levi, Peraud, Froome and LLS are far better all rounders than Samu who "just doesnt deserve to be on the list".

No explanation though, as always.

It would just be a waste of ones time to point out that Nibali is hardly mr consistent hence the logic fails totally.

neither are great examples of all round riders. Both seem determined in regards to GTs and the occasional short race. Neither have had much luck (recently) in classics.

Samu podiumed Lombardy and came 4th in worlds just over 2 years ago, won Gp mig this year and came 3rd in FW so while not a winner, is clearly one of the better hilly classics riders.

 

[Timmy-loves-Rabo]

cineteq is just trolling as always. Hence no explanation as always.

In the other thread he says that Levi, Peraud, Froome and LLS are far better all rounders than Samu who "just doesnt deserve to be on the list".

No explanation though, as always.

It would just be a waste of ones time to point out that Nibali is hardly mr consistent hence the logic fails totally.



Samu podiumed Lombardy and came 4th in worlds just over 2 years ago, won Gp mig this year and came 3rd in FW so while not a winner, is clearly one of the better hilly classics riders.

while I do agree that he is one of teh better classic guys I just think in recent years he has been less adamanet. Anyway I forgot about his podium at FW.

 

[cineteq]

cineteq is just trolling as always. Hence no explanation as always.

In the other thread he says that Levi, Peraud, Froome and LLS are far better all rounders than Samu who "just doesnt deserve to be on the list".

If you call trolling not agreeing with you, then I am.

 

[The Hitch]

If you call trolling not agreeing with you, then I am.

Its trolling if all you ever say is "you're wrong" and never actually explain why you take such a stance, but instead just come up with a different wording to dismiss the opposing argument every post.

 

[mewmewmew13]

can't quite establish the difference- Samu excels more, but is due to his age & experience, while Nibali is getting better as he matures/develops year after year
Overall both amazing riders nonetheless..

This.
Samu has more experience. Nibali will get better as he ages....

 

[karlboss]

Cycling quotient head to head
44-13
TT
3-3
climbing
6-3
To Sanchez
Including almost every time they have met in a classic.

 

[More Strides than Rides]

Sanchez has the medal, but Nibali has the Vuelta and Giro podium, which I think testifies to the point; Sanchez is the all rounder, and Nibali has GC stregnth/potential

 

[theyoungest]

Sanchez has the medal, but Nibali has the Vuelta and Giro podium, which I think testifies to the point; Sanchez is the all rounder, and Nibali has GC stregnth/potential

4th at the Tour, behind Contador, Schleck, and Menchov, is hardly less impressive than winning the Vuelta ahead of Mosquera. Certainly because the year before Sanchez had comfortably beaten Mosquera in the Vuelta to take 2nd on GC.

 

[auscyclefan94]

Cycling quotient head to head
44-13
TT
3-3
climbing
6-3
To Sanchez
Including almost every time they have met in a classic.

I think in quite a few aspects of cycling the head to head stat is inaccurate. It doesn't take in the context of the race and just because head-to-head someone is better doesn't mean the 'lesser' rider isn't better. In most classics I think Vincenzo is better though Samu has the better palmares. For some reason I see Vincenzo as being better classics rider in that aspect especially with his rides in Lombardia, Liege, Worlds and in classics type stage races such as Tirreno. If Samu and Vincenzo were going head to head in a GT I would probably give it to Samu although Vincenzo has the better record in Grand Tours.

Probably in general I would go Samu on second thought though Samu hasn't got the spectacular Palmares that Vincenzo has at such a young age.

 

[Descender]

Sanchez wins by virtue of his sprinting.

 

[gilbertador]

Its close but i think it has to be Nibali, apart from fleche wallone where samu did well this year he never looks a threat, you can always back Nibali to attack and look good in MSR and Lombardia and he did pritty well in liege this year to, Samu just never looks great and has bad positioning, i can never see him adding to his olympic gold

Nibali is the better TT er, in the last 2 Vueltas in long flat tts he has put in good performances against a strong field on very flat courses, with out hills samu cant put in good time trials, in prologues Nibali is better as well, however it is close

Climbing is slightly easier, Nibali has his moments like 3rd on Zoncolan, 2nd on Bola but Sanchez in undeniably better, hes had some quality wins such as this year in the tour and some great performances like on the col de maddeleine, however both are susceptible to bad days

Downhill is no contest, Nibali is head and shoulders above Sanchez, Sanchez was about equal to Contador in the tour this year but in better condition at the top of descents a fresh contador was no where near Nibali in the Giro, Sanchez would never be able to do what Nibali did in stage 15, Nibalis downhill is a certified weapon, Sanchez probably wont win stages or time on a favorites group with his

Overall in a GT my vote would be Nibali in a TT heavy Gt like next years tour, in a climbing one its very close, Nibali wouldnt lose any stupid time where as Samu definitely has the potential to have avoidable losses

Overall its tough to argue against the 26 year old GT winner with his last 5 Grand tour results in the top 7, Samu is older and in the long run is unlikely to win a GT or a classic which i definitely see Nibali doing

 

[Ferminal]

I think in quite a few aspects of cycling the head to head stat is inaccurate. It doesn't take in the context of the race and just because head-to-head someone is better doesn't mean the 'lesser' rider isn't better. In most classics I think Vincenzo is better though Samu has the better palmares. For some reason I see Vincenzo as being better classics rider in that aspect especially with his rides in Lombardia, Liege, Worlds and in classics type stage races such as Tirreno. If Samu and Vincenzo were going head to head in a GT I would probably give it to Samu although Vincenzo has the better record in Grand Tours.

Probably in general I would go Samu on second thought though Samu hasn't got the spectacular Palmares that Vincenzo has at such a young age.

Yet if Samu raced the Giro or Vuelta, this year or last, you would expect him to finish ahead of Nibali (ok maybe not last year's Giro due to lots of weird things happening). Or would Nibali in top form finish ahead in the 2010 or 2011 Tour. 2010 no chance. 2011 possibly, assuming the crash and TTT. Looks like both will be at their best for the 2012 Tour so it should settle this debate either way.

Samu seems to be less competitive in one dayers these days which may be a strategical decision. Nibali hasn't shown enough in major classics to consider him better than Samu though.

If we look at individual attributes, Samu is a better climber, TTer, puncheur. Nibali the better descender, and maybe a split for one day races.

 

[More Strides than Rides]

4th at the Tour, behind Contador, Schleck, and Menchov, is hardly less impressive than winning the Vuelta ahead of Mosquera. Certainly because the year before Sanchez had comfortably beaten Mosquera in the Vuelta to take 2nd on GC.

You're right; but I picked my words carefully. I didn't directly compare the two on GC, only that Nibali is more GC than he is all rounder. Sanchez took some good scalps, but does that diminish a Trophy and Giro successes? In absolutes, Nibali is a better GC performer, at a much younger age. Sanchez has some good scalps, but the riders race to win.

 

[Ferminal]

It's the Menchov vs Evans pre 2011 debate all over again