Bicycle industry have alot to answer for

[Darryl Webster]

Agreed!

I think chasing Trek down for any perceived mis-deeds (as to being complicit in a grander doping scandal) is a bit of a stretch. I have had more than a couple of contracts as a DS that stipulated X number of bikes, X number of wheel sets, and X number of team kit; not to fund a doping program, but rather to pay my mortgage and to make up for the low-ball salary being offered.

Trek's contract for sponsorship would only stipulate X number of bikes/frames, where they end up is not their issue (apart from a no-Ebay clause). It's the guys who run the team, receive the product, and then flip it who are the guys with the tough questions to answer.

A Witch Hunt against sponsors is only going to hurt further sponsorship. The companies are not the issue. The people who run teams ARE the issue, and they are the ones who should be answering these questions.

Trying to find a 'clean' company is only going to end up in manifold headaches. They're looking for exposure, nothing more.

And, hey they're actually giving money to the sport we love. That's not so bad. Look at the managers and DSs, then pick the fight...

It`s exactly why sport should not be structured along a corperate model...the maxim of which is " whatever it takes"..it aint a crime unless your caught.
ALL thats the sports governing body should be doing is refereeing and insuring fair play in competition and campaiging cyclists causes.
Thats it..nothing else. It`s the only way it can be free of corruption.
Let promoters deal with promoting and the sponsors deal with sponsoring .

 

[andy1234]

I've got an even better idea: The cycling business can stop laundering a percentage of what I spend on bicycling and other items by not sending money into known illegal drug trafficking and distribution programs.

I assume you are going to boycott the music industry too?
Where do you think the money you spend on cds goes?

 

[JMBeaushrimp]

It`s exactly why sport should not be structured along a corperate model...the maxim of which is " whatever it takes"..it aint a crime unless your caught.
ALL thats the sports governing body should be doing is refereeing and insuring fair play in competition and campaiging cyclists causes.
Thats it..nothing else. It`s the only way it can be free of corruption.
Let promoters deal with promoting and the sponsors deal with sponsoring .

Can't argue with that.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

I consider the racing bicycle industry to be highly culpable when it comes to looking for someone to blame for the doping woes of pro cycling.

Team sponsors come and go and it can be argued they don't have continued interest or knowledge in the intrequacies of the sport.

The same cannot be said for the large frame, component and wheel manufacturers

They sponsors guys who are supposed to be able to do phenomenal efforts on their bikes naturally.

Little is said in condemning doping by them.

How about a non doping sticker on products rather than a uci sanctioned sticker?

Why can't bikepure etc partner up with them?????

They rather portray an image on alpe d'huez every summer than clean up the sport.

Follow the money, establish some ethics, clean up the sport

Where else are the bike industry supposed to sponsor?

It is not the fault of the manufacturers are bike industry that the sport is a mess.

 

[AnythingButKestrel]

Where else are the bike industry supposed to sponsor?

It is not the fault of the manufacturers are bike industry that the sport is a mess.

Who said they needed to sponsor anything? How about sponsoring no one and giving the consumer the benefit in lower prices.

Whose fault is it? There's a lot of blame to go around. I doubt that one could swing a dead cat at a bike race without hitting someone who has been in the know and looking the other way for a long time - all because it benefitted them in one way or another. Media, manufacturers, DS's, sponsors, riders... They have all been in on the scam. Pro cycling is just a pathetic fraud.

The is no fix, no test, no policy, no investigation that can make bicycle racing in its current guise legitimate. Bike racing is so utterly corrupt, the only cure is its destruction. Maybe after many of those involved no longer have work, a little introspection will take place regarding ethical behavior and how their bulls*t destroyed the sport they loved.

 

[JMBeaushrimp]

Who said they needed to sponsor anything? How about sponsoring no one and giving the consumer the benefit in lower prices.

Whose fault is it? There's a lot of blame to go around. I doubt that one could swing a dead cat at a bike race without hitting someone who has been in the know and looking the other way for a long time - all because it benefitted them in one way or another. Media, manufacturers, DS's, sponsors, riders... They have all been in on the scam. Pro cycling is just a pathetic fraud.

The is no fix, no test, no policy, no investigation that can make bicycle racing in its current guise legitimate. Bike racing is so utterly corrupt, the only cure is its destruction. Maybe after many of those involved no longer have work, a little introspection will take place regarding ethical behavior and how their bulls*t destroyed the sport they loved.

Possibly because if they did that, the bikes would cost twice as much and no one would buy them?

Do you have even a rudimentary grasp of marketing, and therefore sale voumes? If these entities you disparage so willingly were to stop all pro-cycling marketing drives, then there would be no jacked up Masters to buy their 10k race bikes.

If that happened, they'd be stuck trying to find a market in the Western World for crappy cruisers and multi-speed townies.

Their 'bullsh*t", as you put it, has not funded the doping in cycling. Look at team sponsorship, it's rare that a bike company is actually funding a team. You know why? They don't have enough money to do it.

I can certainly appreciate your enthusiasm, and what it's striving for, but this is not the fight to pick...

 

[Dr. Maserati]

Who said they needed to sponsor anything? How about sponsoring no one and giving the consumer the benefit in lower prices.

Whose fault is it? There's a lot of blame to go around. I doubt that one could swing a dead cat at a bike race without hitting someone who has been in the know and looking the other way for a long time - all because it benefitted them in one way or another. Media, manufacturers, DS's, sponsors, riders... They have all been in on the scam. Pro cycling is just a pathetic fraud.

The is no fix, no test, no policy, no investigation that can make bicycle racing in its current guise legitimate. Bike racing is so utterly corrupt, the only cure is its destruction. Maybe after many of those involved no longer have work, a little introspection will take place regarding ethical behavior and how their bulls*t destroyed the sport they loved.

Plenty of manufacturers don't sponsor cycling teams and pass on the prices to the consumer...... I don't know any of there names though nor do i own one.
What bike do you own?

Bike racing is not corrupt - the Pro circuit is, it does not need destruction but but proper oversight and accountability.

 

[AnythingButKestrel]

Possibly because if they did that, the bikes would cost twice as much and no one would buy them?

Do you have even a rudimentary grasp of marketing, and therefore sale voumes? If these entities you disparage so willingly were to stop all pro-cycling marketing drives, then there would be no jacked up Masters to buy their 10k race bikes.

If that happened, they'd be stuck trying to find a market in the Western World for crappy cruisers and multi-speed townies.

Their 'bullsh*t", as you put it, has not funded the doping in cycling. Look at team sponsorship, it's rare that a bike company is actually funding a team. You know why? They don't have enough money to do it.

I can certainly appreciate your enthusiasm, and what it's striving for, but this is not the fight to pick...

Acutally I do have a grasp of marketing, and have written the checks for advertising in print. It's damned expensive.

When I say "industry," let me clarify that I consider companies like Garmin, RS, etc. to be part of that industry when they pony up for sponsorship. Most of those sponsorships are bought out of executive ego massaging rather than based on a dollars in minus dollars out equation. All a CEO has to do is pony up a few million other other people's money to go hobnob with the "stars." And bicycling is most certainly a cheaper date than buying stadium name rights.

The unspoken assertion is that pro racing is the only conduit by which performance bikes will be sold. I pose that performance bikes will continue to be sold so that certain fat masters riders can have "faster" bikes than the other fat masters riders on the Wednesday night shop and Sunday coffee rides.

Do I want to go kill off the mom and pop bike manufacturers? Of course not. But Trek most certainly should be held to account and so should some of the sponsors that knew exactly what they were "sponsoring."

 

[AnythingButKestrel]

Plenty of manufacturers don't sponsor cycling teams and pass on the prices to the consumer...... I don't know any of there names though nor do i own one.
What bike do you own?

Bike racing is not corrupt - the Pro circuit is, it does not need destruction but but proper oversight and accountability.

I wish I believed that bike racing wasn't corrupt. I really wish I did. I also wish that I believed that another rule or half-measure would fix it. Dozens of rules, procedures and tests have been implemented, all with the same promise: "This one will clean up the sport!"

Yet here we are with "born-again" riders killing their kidneys. A little dab isn't gonna do it.

 

[Basecase]

If I was looking for someone to blame I think I could do better than Canondale or Shimano. I mean what about all these publicity floats !

What have they ever done in the fight against doping !??

Are they fundamentally dependent on the sport for advertising?

Do those sponsors come and go from the sport?

Do they have as in depth knowledge of the sport or it's eternal continuance as an absolute requirement for their businesses?

 

[Basecase]

how do you penalise them for it? Obviously stop buying an s-works or a madone, but Bianchi, Colnago, Gitanes etc are all culpable for decades.

Should sponsors face financial penalties? then they won't enter the sport, which is what one thread is about, taking it back to pure amateurism.

Good questions

 

[Basecase]

The only answer is to have all the riders ride obscure, small poor custom frame builders, who have zero dollars to contribute to the sport.

Either that or all the riders ride black 3 speed Chinese made 3 speeds, you know the ones with the double top tube. All made by the same 12 year old children in the same sweaty factories.

That will clean up cycling fo sho. Bad, bad bicycle manufacturers.

Really? Are you being sarcastic?

How about manufacturers implement serious and prohibitive anti doping stipulations into their sponsorship contracts and publish them for all to see?

 

[Basecase]

If you are suggesting money has something to do with doping I suppose that is a connection. Take away the money and we can go back to tiny little criteriums at the shopping mall.
I think your premiss is absurd and you should try and save soccer from it's money addiction.

I believe shopping mall crits are not the future of cycling. Sounds like an American term to me?!?

Cycling is my passion. Not soccer. Hence I am posting here

 

[Basecase]

basecase 1st you have to understand that the bike you think costs 15,000 costs a fraction of that. You are retail and they are wholesale.. When they toss t-shirts out to the crowd it costs them a single euro not the 20-30 euro retail price. The money spent on exposure is only part of the marketing..race bikes are a tiny part of most manuf..product lines but thanks to people like yourself are very profitable/ Like the photos posted people that sell car tires, or offer betting services for racehorses don't have a direct link to anything bicycle. Bic continued sponsorship years after they had no link to cycling. The towns in France, Italy and California are just as guilty for underwriting an event that is tainted in your view. They look at the cash and look past the crisis in sports in general..if you look at the broken bones, bottles and burned out cars after a Man United loss a logical person would just say no more football..but as a whole that is stupid..this baby out w the bathwater stuff doesn't work. If your outrage is based on 10's of millions will it go down proportionally if you find out it was only a million?

I know the difference between cost and profit etc thanks

Where did I say I'd buy a bike for 15k?

Your reference to Bic is an oxymoron no?

With regards to towns staging races I'd say they too, like skoda etc, have an agenda which differs to manufacturers.

I believe throwing in a comparison with soccer hooliganism is muddy the waters. Quite a different scenario altogether!

 

[Basecase]

The second fastest way to lose money is to invest in the bicycle industry (the fastest being the airline industry). Be thankful that they sponsor at all.

What's wrong with healthy debate?

Ultimately implementing stronger anti doping standards in the manufacturing/distributing/retail areas would hit the bottom line, either possibly through lost revenue or increased associated costs.

There are many vested interests, probably some on here.

Cyclingnews.com themselves, who kindly facilitate our thought streams seem to have no shortage of sponsorship from the sector.

I suppose what I am saying is that the industry is to some extent not fully addressing the issue from what I can see and perhaps should ask itself that by the continued negative press and awareness of Ill effects of peds, how many people does it turn off the sport in the long run ?

 

[andy1234]

I wish I believed that bike racing wasn't corrupt. I really wish I did. I also wish that I believed that another rule or half-measure would fix it. Dozens of rules, procedures and tests have been implemented, all with the same promise: "This one will clean up the sport!"

Yet here we are with "born-again" riders killing their kidneys. A little dab isn't gonna do it.

Fistly, Professional SPORT is corrupt, cycling is just a part of that.
Secondly, Professional sport IS advertising, thats why it exists.

There are plenty of good clean sports out there, but not at professional level, so when you state your disgust at cycling and its sponsors, why do you stop there?

I honestly think that you are confusing sport, a leisure activity, with professional sport, a business.

 

[Benotti69]

I think there is something to this.

Let's consider the Landis story about "Treks-for-Drugs". Trek *HAD* to come to know what was being done with their bikes. Maybe at first they (guys at the top) did not know (or maybe they "allowed" it?), then wondered why the USPS team needed all the extra gear. Ultimately, when you see your team bikes on ebay, you do understand what is happening. To the point where they actually said they wrote new contract language forbidding the sale of team issued gear until the season ended.

If a bike company is involved in a direct or indirect way, like Trek as an example, then yes, they must be held accountable. Obtaining these PED's is no small task. Money has a trail. Finding a way to generate undocumented cash in order to get the PED's from the back of a Pharma or black market sources is a must.

Funny. The Trek employee (CFO, controller, or somesuch) initially had plenty to say. He was promptly stifled and replaced with a Public Strategies shrill, from what I recall. Funny how the US Feds went straight to Trek to ask for documentation as they started breaking the doping scandal down to its workings.

To the extent that Trek made a small fortune off of Lance's wins, transforming themselves from a pedestrian US brand into a leading, cutting edge technical race brand was done on the backs of doped bike racers. Thanks!

If they "knew" all along, then they should be punished for facilitating the fraud. Aiding and abetting.

If they didn't "know", then they should be very helpful in providing the proof of how they were unaware and took the proper steps to prevent the scheme from perpetuating.

Given the "Lance" effect, the handling of the Lemond brand, the small slice of Trek that Lance purportedly owns, my guess is they knew, approved and actively assisted. In fact they didn't mind it one bit, as their global business exploded like mushrooms on a pile of dung often will do.

Given the 'Lance effect', add on Giro helmets, sram, oakley and lots of others

 

[brianf7]

I wish I believed that bike racing wasn't corrupt. I really wish I did. I also wish that I believed that another rule or half-measure would fix it. Dozens of rules, procedures and tests have been implemented, all with the same promise: "This one will clean up the sport!"

Yet here we are with "born-again" riders killing their kidneys. A little dab isn't gonna do it.

All sports are corrupt to some extent I often wish the horse racing industry wasnt corrupt is it. but when there is big money involved its always the same whatever sport we only need to look at the cricket news.

its all about a fast $$$$$$$