Boonen vs Cancellara - Attempting a palmares confrontation

[Mozart92]

Who's the best of the two?

They dominated the spring classics of the last decade. Most of the people claims Cancellara was superior although I'm not so sure.

I tried to make a confrontation attributing points basing myself on how much the media pay attention to certain results. Obviously it's very subjective although I tried to be as realistic as possible.

Monuments classic
1st 5 points
2nd place 2 points
3rd place 1 point

World championship 1st 7 points 2nd 2 points, 3rd 1 point
WC time trial 1st 2 points 2nd 1 point, 3rd 0,5 points

Olympics golds : 5 points silver 2 points


Other cobbled classics

2,5 points

Tour the France

Stage win 1,5 points

One day in yellow jersey 0,5 points

Points Classification 3 points

Other important races

Tirreno Adriatico/Tour the Swiss

3 points


SO...

Cancellara:

29 days of yellow jersey = 15 points

7 stages = 10,5

win 3 rubaix, 3 flanders, 1 sanremo = 35 points

2nd place : 3 sanremo, 2 rubaix = 10 points

3rd : 1sanremo, 1 rubaix, 1 flanders = 3 points

1 strade bianche, 3 E3 Harelbeke : 10 points

1 olympic gold and 1 olympic silver (2008) : 7 points

4 TT World championships won and two third places : 9 ppints

1 Tirreno Adriatico and 1 Tour of Switzerland : 6 points

TOTAL 105,5

Boonen

1 World Championship : 7 points

win 4 Rubaix, 3 Flanders 35 points

2nd places 1 sanremo, 1 flanders 1 rubaix 6 points

3rd places 1 rubaix, 1 sanremo 2 points

2 Scheldeprijs, 3 Kuurne–Brussels–Kuurne, 5 E3 Harelbeke 2 Gent-Wevelgem 30 points

6 tour stages 9 points
3 days in yellow 1,5 points
1 points classification 3 points

TOTAL 93,5 points

So according to my analysis Cancellara's palmares is slightly superior. I didn't consider victories on minor races because I'd lose the day counting and besides those are not so important. AS for the national titles I didn't count them because the competition was different (Switzerland has fewer and less qualified contenders compared to Belgium).

Let me know what you think. In the future I might try to do more of these confrontations, maybe between sprinters like Cav, Cipo, Petacchi and Freire.

 

[Vino attacks everyone]

I'm sure cancellara would have traded 10 of his 29 days in yellow in for another PR or flanders, so I think these point systems get a bit silly after a while. Appreciate the effort though

 

[Carols]

I like your points system especially since the guy I think is better scored more points. As he should have!

 

[elfed68]

Obviously Cancellara, no point carrying on.

 

[jsem94]

Cancellara ahead in terms of total palmares. In spring/cobbled classics alone, Boonen is slightly ahread.

 

[Merckx index]

Not sure if you are aware of this:

viewtopic.php?f=6&t=19502&hilit=Cancellara

Not quite as precise in assigning numbers to various palmares, but obviously a similar goal.

 

[Hugo Koblet]

I agree that overall Cancellara is the better rider. As a cobble stone rider though, Boonen is the greatest.

 

[trevim]

I think it's quite easy for this guys as only 4 races really matter: San Remo, Roubaix, Flanders and Worlds. It seems like a pretty even match to me

 

[Brullnux]

I agree with a lot of posters: Cancellara a better rider, but Boonen better in the cobbled classic.

 

[classicomano]

Havent we already been over this ad nauseam?

 

[raddone]

Re:

I agree that overall Cancellara is the better rider. As a cobble stone rider though, Boonen is the greatest.

Only one way to find out.
Both escape with 40 km to go in P-R and go head to head on the velodrome. That would be something to talk about for some years.

 

[Hugo Koblet]

Re: Re:

I agree that overall Cancellara is the better rider. As a cobble stone rider though, Boonen is the greatest.

Only one way to find out.
Both escape with 40 km to go in P-R and go head to head on the velodrome. That would be something to talk about for some years.

That would be great

Though I think that both Kristoff and Degenkolb have surpassed Boonen and Cancellara as the kings of the cobblestones (and quite a few more are ahead of Boonen as well, like Van Avermaet, Stybar, Sagan in Flanders and Vanmarcke in Paris-Roubaix).

 

[rghysens]

Re: Re:

I agree that overall Cancellara is the better rider. As a cobble stone rider though, Boonen is the greatest.

Only one way to find out.
Both escape with 40 km to go in P-R and go head to head on the velodrome. That would be something to talk about for some years.

Well, almost: http://www.cyclingnews.com/races/paris-roubaix-2008/results/

 

[Echoes]

Re: Boonen vs Cancellara - Attempting a palmares confrontati

As said on all the other thread, Cancellara is the better rider overall, including on Paris-Roubaix. Boonen is the better cobble specialist but there's more to Paris-Roubaix than just cobbles, it's also 200+ km on asphalt and you need amazing stamina to survive these flat cobbles. Paris-Roubaix is a race for complete riders. The sections of asphalt in-between are at least as significant as the cobbled sections themselves. They are flat, there's virtually no descent, so it's impossible to take a breather and as Duclos-Lassalle argued, it stops you from going all out on the cobbles. It's very different from the Tour of Flanders in which automatically have a few descents after the climbs, so that you can afford to go all out on the climbs. Paris-Roubaix is a much harder race than the Tour of Flanders is. Not even close.

Cancellara based most of his Paris-Roubaix wins on the asphalt sections due to his amazing rouleur skills. On the cobbles, guys like Hushovd or Vanmarcke have proved to be his equal. Cancellara is the better rider of Boonen because he's a rouleur/ITT specialist and the best riders in history always are the ITT specialists...

Besides, how on earth does a Yellow Jersey represent so much in cycling? You win a prologue you got it, you win the last ITT you dont necessarily have it...

 

[Mr.White]

Cancellara slightly better overall, Boonen better classics rider

 

[Mozart92]

Re:

Not sure if you are aware of this:

viewtopic.php?f=6&t=19502&hilit=Cancellara

Not quite as precise in assigning numbers to various palmares, but obviously a similar goal.

It was outdated

 

[Cannibal72]

Re: Boonen vs Cancellara - Attempting a palmares confrontati

Just as a counterbalance to some of the Cance boosterism, Boonen's won rainbow and green (neither of which Cance has) on non-cobbled terrain. I think for completeness, Boonen compares to Cancellara, at least in the days when he was a world-class sprinter.

 

[Jspear]

Re: Re:

I agree that overall Cancellara is the better rider. As a cobble stone rider though, Boonen is the greatest.

Only one way to find out.
Both escape with 40 km to go in P-R and go head to head on the velodrome. That would be something to talk about for some years.

That would be great

Though I think that both Kristoff and Degenkolb have surpassed Boonen and Cancellara as the kings of the cobblestones (and quite a few more are ahead of Boonen as well, like Van Avermaet, Stybar, Sagan in Flanders and Vanmarcke in Paris-Roubaix).

Cancellara will have something to say about that this year.

 

[PremierAndrew]

Re: Re:

I agree that overall Cancellara is the better rider. As a cobble stone rider though, Boonen is the greatest.

Only one way to find out.
Both escape with 40 km to go in P-R and go head to head on the velodrome. That would be something to talk about for some years.

That would be great

Though I think that both Kristoff and Degenkolb have surpassed Boonen and Cancellara as the kings of the cobblestones (and quite a few more are ahead of Boonen as well, like Van Avermaet, Stybar, Sagan in Flanders and Vanmarcke in Paris-Roubaix).

This is nonsense. Last time we saw Canc on the cobbles, he was better than both (back in 2014). Yea, degenkolb and kristoff have both improved big time since then, but you can't just count out Canc like that

 

[Cance > TheRest]

Re: Re:

I agree that overall Cancellara is the better rider. As a cobble stone rider though, Boonen is the greatest.

Only one way to find out.
Both escape with 40 km to go in P-R and go head to head on the velodrome. That would be something to talk about for some years.

That would be great

Though I think that both Kristoff and Degenkolb have surpassed Boonen and Cancellara as the kings of the cobblestones (and quite a few more are ahead of Boonen as well, like Van Avermaet, Stybar, Sagan in Flanders and Vanmarcke in Paris-Roubaix).

This is nonsense. Last time we saw Canc on the cobbles, he was better than both (back in 2014). Yea, degenkolb and kristoff have both improved big time since then, but you can't just count out Canc like that

True. Some people also started counting out Cancellara after his disastrous 2012 season, where his crash in RVV left him empty handed. Then he came back in 2013 to show who the real boss was.

 

[Hugo Koblet]

Re: Re:

I agree that overall Cancellara is the better rider. As a cobble stone rider though, Boonen is the greatest.

Only one way to find out.
Both escape with 40 km to go in P-R and go head to head on the velodrome. That would be something to talk about for some years.

That would be great

Though I think that both Kristoff and Degenkolb have surpassed Boonen and Cancellara as the kings of the cobblestones (and quite a few more are ahead of Boonen as well, like Van Avermaet, Stybar, Sagan in Flanders and Vanmarcke in Paris-Roubaix).

This is nonsense. Last time we saw Canc on the cobbles, he was better than both (back in 2014). Yea, degenkolb and kristoff have both improved big time since then, but you can't just count out Canc like that

I don't count him out at all. For sure he's one of the top favorites, but I think that Kristoff and Degenkolb are both better now. I'm happy we'll get to see Cancellara in top form on the cobbles this season though, should be some good battles.

 

[phanatic]

Re: Boonen vs Cancellara - Attempting a palmares confrontati

Boonen is up 4-3.

 

[blackmamba]

Counting in how many days cancellera have been in yellow is just totally *** in this regard, the thing these two values the most is the one we can judge em on and also where they ACTUALLY COMPETE against eachother and everyone knows what that is, Robaix and Flandern (which is also the whats most respected from every rider in the peleton in these regards) and currently then Boonen is the biggest legend as hes up 4-3. Sure Cancellara is a bit more versatile but when push comes to show its the biggest stage who counts and thats Robaix and Flandern for these guys.

Else its like discussing which is better apple or orange cause both their palmares if you take into account everything besides the classics are just whichever you prefer kinda thing and which has no right answer, hence no point discussing in my opinion.

 

[PremierAndrew]

Re: Re:

I agree that overall Cancellara is the better rider. As a cobble stone rider though, Boonen is the greatest.

Only one way to find out.
Both escape with 40 km to go in P-R and go head to head on the velodrome. That would be something to talk about for some years.

That would be great

Though I think that both Kristoff and Degenkolb have surpassed Boonen and Cancellara as the kings of the cobblestones (and quite a few more are ahead of Boonen as well, like Van Avermaet, Stybar, Sagan in Flanders and Vanmarcke in Paris-Roubaix).

This is nonsense. Last time we saw Canc on the cobbles, he was better than both (back in 2014). Yea, degenkolb and kristoff have both improved big time since then, but you can't just count out Canc like that

I don't count him out at all. For sure he's one of the top favorites, but I think that Kristoff and Degenkolb are both better now. I'm happy we'll get to see Cancellara in top form on the cobbles this season though, should be some good battles.

Wonder if you still think Kristoff are better? (The less said about Degenkolb, the better - sigh.)

 

[pedromiguelmartins]

Nice thread, however it is time for someone to say the truth just like it is:

Cancellara has been the strongest rider after the second week of April 2006. In the years after that, Boonen only shined on monuments and even th Tour when Fabian wasn't there, due to injury.

However, since that week, Fabian has been doing nothing more than kicking Boonen's ass on direct confrontation. There's no competition at all. Not only is Fabian by far the most complete of the 2, he has been much stronger on monuments pretty much for the whole last decade, while only being weaker in 2005.