Bring Back the Double ITT?

[Alpe d'Huez]

I agree. But maybe not in the way of everyone else.

I think had there been a prologue, and especially an ITT on about Stage 4, we may not have seen the crashes we did. Early TT's split GC riders up more, so we end up with less riders able to grab the maillot jaune, thus less tension. But I think in the future this ITT only needs to be about 30km. Early ITT's also put potential pressure on early ITT to defend the jersey early, thus possibly wearing them out. It also enters an element of strategy whether they want the jersey or not. It also puts pressure on the climbers to attack in the early mountains. We didn't see much of that this year at all. Instead we saw a lot of crashes, and riders sizing each other up in the Pyranees, with a couple of decent small attacks. The queen stage in the Pyranees was a dud.

I also don't think that the final ITT needs to be longer than 40km, and even 30km would be fine. But if we're going to have it longer, they need a flat/breakaway stage after the final mountain stage between the two. This year they went from brutal mountains, straight to the ITT.

I also feel that if they are going to increase the ITT distances, they need to bring back time bonuses for MTF's, and keep them sizable.

One thing Tour organizers did this year that was very smart is that they took a page from the Giro and in the first week had a couple uphill bumps at the end of stages that brought out the GC riders. Even though it's only a handful of seconds usually, it's great to see and the fans love it.

 

[Jeanne]

I want to see the tt on the final stage rather than the sprint.

would this lead to a final tt in Paris every year?

 

[Fatclimber]

Today's tt was the perfect length to me, still had substantial gaps but not so many tt K's that Fabian could win the tour. Compare time gaps on Mtn stages vs itt's. 2 50k itt's (plus prologue) is way too heavily weighted against climbers if you ask me. One 40k itt, a prologue(or short Ttt) and about a 15k imtt(?) seems like a good mix.

I also think they should bring back the end of stage bonuses too. Drop them down a little bit though, like 12,8,5.

To me a good aggressive road race (i know there's no way to gurantee aggressiveness) is way more exciting than a tt, giro has that figured out.

The beauty of it is that they can and do mix it up every year, something for everybody.

 

[The Hitch]

would this lead to a final tt in Paris every year?

Probably not, but i feel they got to do it for the 100th Tour - 2013. Idealy they would start in Paris like for the "100 years since the Tour" in 2003 but they start in Corsica.

 

[jobiwan]

A prologue, a Mountain TT, and a Flat 50 km TT. That's all of the TT'ing I want.

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

The lack of a 2nd ITT made the climbers more conservative, which has not been good for the race. We saw no action in the first 2 mountain stages, because the climbers (this case: Schlecks) became confident enough that the alps would be enough...

if they put an early 40/50km ITT in the climbers have no choice but to start attacking from the 1st mountain stage

 

[King Of The Wolds]

A Prologue, which I missed this year, TTT and an ITT please.

 

[Walkman]

The lack of a 2nd ITT made the climbers more conservative, which has not been good for the race. We saw no action in the first 2 mountain stages, because the climbers (this case: Schlecks) became confident enough that the alps would be enough...

if they put an early 40/50km ITT in the climbers have no choice but to start attacking from the 1st mountain stage

Good post. This is pretty much how I see it. Add a prolouge and I'd say we have a deal!

Funny thing is, most cycling fans would say that the 2003 and 2007 tours are the most exciting during the last ten years (not including this years Tour). And guess what?! Both courses had two ITT's and a prouloge!

Thought I don't like the TTT's. Is't not the strenght of the team that should get you into yellow, it the strenght of the rider.

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

Iif they put an early 40/50km ITT in the climbers have no choice but to start attacking from the 1st mountain stage

I agree. But I think it has to be coupled with time bonuses for mountain stage wins. We can have a prologue, two ITT's, maybe even a third IMTT, plus a TTT, as long as the distances aren't so large the Tour is won there. Time bonuses in mountain stages can help neutralize that.

 

[jobiwan]

I agree. But I think it has to be coupled with time bonuses for mountain stage wins. We can have a prologue, two ITT's, maybe even a third IMTT, plus a TTT, as long as the distances aren't so large the Tour is won there. Time bonuses in mountain stages can help neutralize that.

Really as long as the mountains match up with the TT kilometers, I'll be fine with whatever they do.

Just not a Tony Martin dream course, please!

 

[luckyboy]

It would be interesting to have a proper flat 50km TT to begin the Tour with, rather than a prologue or normal stage.

Then a hilly 40km~ one later on.

TTTs are a nice spectacle, but no more than 15/20km. Probably best to do away with them altogether.

 

[Rouetheday]

Another good reason to have more time trials is they effectively act as another rest day for the domestiques. In fact, I don't understand why the whole field should even need to ride them; just have the GC guys, the TT specialists, and another one or two per team to qualify for the team classification. And yes, I realize I'm p---ing off all you purists.

 

[Kender]

Thought I don't like the TTT's. Is't not the strenght of the team that should get you into yellow, it the strenght of the rider.

yeah because everyone knows cycling is an individual sport

 

[AussieGoddess]

They already managed to change the rules enough to get the winners they wanted for green and polkadot so since Andy didn't manage to win this year either I predict that next year they will remove the regular TT altogether and only have a MTT. And if that doesn't work I'm sure they'll introduce bonus seconds for everyone who races with their brother.

actually I like the changes to both jerseys

Green - if you win 4 or 5 stages then you should win the sprint jersey. Its that simple.

The changes to the intermediate points also made the sprinters come out and work during the race as well.

KOM - if you are the best climber at the END of the stages, you should get the jersey. Not be able to win it by getting into the break and doing the early climbs each day and then dropping off. Thats not a King of the Mountians.

The lack of a 2nd ITT made the climbers more conservative, which has not been good for the race. We saw no action in the first 2 mountain stages, because the climbers (this case: Schlecks) became confident enough that the alps would be enough...

if they put an early 40/50km ITT in the climbers have no choice but to start attacking from the 1st mountain stage

Totally agreed.

The winner should be the best all around rider. Everyone obviously has their strengths and weaknesses, but you should have to be able to do it all to be able to win.

 

[Catty69]

This is how they should do it.

1st week. Prolouge. 3 flat stages, 3 mountain top finish stages, rest.

2nd week. 3 flat stages, 3 mountain top finishes, ITT, rest.

3rd week. 3 flat, 3 mtf, final stage ITT.

If that's too many days then take out a boring flat stage. If there are too many flat stages add a ttt.

 

[Anonymous]

75km TTT
70km Flat TT
55 km hilly TT
15km MTT

And the podium

1st Wiggins
2nd Cancellara
3rd Tony Martin

Frank would end up with the Lantern Rouge which would be about the first thing he had won in the Tour.

 

[ingsve]

Green - if you win 4 or 5 stages then you should win the sprint jersey. Its that simple.

The problem is that it will make the green jersey competition completely uninteresting. The only reason anyone was even close to Cav this year is because there were many stages where climbing sprinters could get extra points. You don't have that every year so when the route is a bit more traditional with mainly Cavendish stages and high mountains stages and not as many ardennes type stages then Cavendish would win the jersey with 200 points.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

The current TdF management is intent on creating a race with two weeks of foreplay and one week of action. So I do not see this happening.

Pretty much. And of course, because they got a big dramatic finish this year, people will forget about the lack of action in the first 15 stages and let them get away with doing it again.

They should do something creative. I don't think they have the coastline like the ITT that Menchov won in the 2009 Giro. I though that was a fantastic ITT course.

They could feasibly do something similar from Menton to Nice or from Marseille to Toulon or something similar, include the Col d'Èze or Mont Faron. This would also let them have a climbing stage in Alpes-Maritimes, which they seldom do, which is a real shame cos there's some very good climbs there.

I want to see the tt on the final stage rather than the sprint.

Certainly spices things up. Now we've had three pancake flat days out of 8 weekend stages (stage 2, the embarrassment that was stage 15 and now Paris). I'd also like them, once in a while, to perhaps start in Paris (either with a prologue or a circuit race) and finish in one of the country's other big cities - imagine ending with an ITT in Lyon, finishing on top of the Colline de Fourvières - allowing mountain stages to run right up to the last day before the final ITT, but without the big transfer. Similar things could be done with Toulouse after the Pyrenées.

I agree. But maybe not in the way of everyone else.

I think had there been a prologue, and especially an ITT on about Stage 4, we may not have seen the crashes we did. Early TT's split GC riders up more, so we end up with less riders able to grab the maillot jaune, thus less tension. But I think in the future this ITT only needs to be about 30km. Early ITT's also put potential pressure on early ITT to defend the jersey early, thus possibly wearing them out. It also enters an element of strategy whether they want the jersey or not. It also puts pressure on the climbers to attack in the early mountains. We didn't see much of that this year at all. Instead we saw a lot of crashes, and riders sizing each other up in the Pyranees, with a couple of decent small attacks. The queen stage in the Pyranees was a dud.

I also don't think that the final ITT needs to be longer than 40km, and even 30km would be fine. But if we're going to have it longer, they need a flat/breakaway stage after the final mountain stage between the two. This year they went from brutal mountains, straight to the ITT.

I also feel that if they are going to increase the ITT distances, they need to bring back time bonuses for MTF's, and keep them sizable.

One thing Tour organizers did this year that was very smart is that they took a page from the Giro and in the first week had a couple uphill bumps at the end of stages that brought out the GC riders. Even though it's only a handful of seconds usually, it's great to see and the fans love it.

I'm totally with you. The 2008 route seemed to do it well; the Cholet ITT was in the upper 20s for distance, with the later TT being much longer. But it broke up the field early (as did Super-Besse in stage 6, before arriving in the Pyrenées at the end of week 1). The lack of an early ITT in this year's edition may have been tempered had they hit the mountains proper by stage 8 or 9, but adding another half-week of nerves with everybody having something to protect turned an already bad situation worse. There needed to be something to put gaps into the GC early on to stop everybody being so tense. Mur de Brétagne was never going to be that.

 

[hughmoore]

Great win by Cadel.

He rode the TT like he was wearing the Yellow Jersey and smashed the Schelcks.

You guys want to change the Tour for two brothers. They are the only serious contenders that cant TT.

Cadel can TT
Contador can TT
Sanchez can TT

Cadel did well in the GIRO MTF TT, think he was second gaining time on Basso.

Would Andy and Frank beat Cadel in a Alpe D TT ?


Hugh

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Great win by Cadel.

He rode the TT like he was wearing the Yellow Jersey and smashed the Schelcks.

You guys want to change the Tour for two brothers. They are the only serious contenders that cant TT.

Cadel can TT
Contador can TT
Sanchez can TT

Cadel did well in the GIRO MTF TT, think he was second gaining time on Basso.

Would Andy and Frank beat Cadel in a Alpe D TT ?


Hugh

No, it's the organisers that want to change it for the two brothers. If there is another ITT, the Schlecks will have to work harder in the mountains to get the win, which means more excitement for us, rather than them riding hand in hand up Plateau de Beille and leaving it all for the Alps. They sure made the Alps fun, but it was too little too late, and more TT mileage means more time needed by the weaker TTers.

Can Contador and Sánchez TT? Sure. Definitely. So they wouldn't fear the extra TT. But that's okay, since they did most of the animating of the race in the mountains anyway. It's only trying to force the Schlecks' hands to add the extra ITT. Well, that or making it more like every other Tour de France until 2010.

 

[AussieGoddess]

The problem is that it will make the green jersey competition completely uninteresting. The only reason anyone was even close to Cav this year is because there were many stages where climbing sprinters could get extra points. You don't have that every year so when the route is a bit more traditional with mainly Cavendish stages and high mountains stages and not as many ardennes type stages then Cavendish would win the jersey with 200 points.

so change the course to be a little more even.

If Cav is the best, he is the best. He should win it. Changing it to make it harder just because he will win isnt ok.

You guys want to change the Tour for two brothers. They are the only serious contenders that cant TT.

I agree - you cant change it just for one (either to win or to lose) ... but the winner of the TDF should be able to put together a full 3 weeks of all disciplines. That means competing in all of them, including Time Trials. The others are GC riders because they can do that.

With more TT the schlecks can still win ... and probably will. But they will have to use their strengths far better in order to overcome their weaknesses

 

[Dewulf]

i like it when they do a mountain itt and a flat itt in the same year. doesn't happen often

mountain tt really shows up the best climbers. there is no attacks. there is no wheel sucking. best climber wins

flat tt shows up a riders power and endurance. there is nowhere to hide, no where to rest

THIS, plus a TTT, and no prologue, thank-you very much

 

[Rouetheday]

This is how they should do it.

1st week. Prolouge. 3 flat stages, 3 mountain top finish stages, rest.

2nd week. 3 flat stages, 3 mountain top finishes, ITT, rest.

3rd week. 3 flat, 3 mtf, final stage ITT.

If that's too many days then take out a boring flat stage. If there are too many flat stages add a ttt.

I hate to pick on another newbie, but are you privvy to some impending geological events which will radically change the topography of France?

 

[AussieGoddess]

and we saw what setting enormous transfers in order to make a great parcous did for Angelo Z in the Giro.

 

[auscyclefan94]

I agreethat more ITT km's eed to be brought back. But by going on what race director Jean Francois Perscheux has said, I don't think so. This is what he said about the Grenoble ITT:

"This is the only individual time trial in 2011, as the one in the first week was a team TT. We decided that having another one in the middle of the race wouldn't serve any great purpose. The profile is rolling and the road does climb although there aren't any cols.

I don't agree with that. Another 20km ITT would of forced the Schlecks, Basso,and the other climbers to be more aggressive.