Bruyneel and Driedaagse van West-Vlaanderen

Jan 7, 2010
3
0
0
In the past, Bruyneel's riders have been conspicuous for their "new-found" time trialing prowess. For example, tiny climbers like Leipheimer and Brajkovic who were terrible at TTs becoming world-beaters all of a sudden when joining Bruyneel's team.

Contador as well, even though he was Spanish U23 TT champ, was not going to be beating dedicated TT riders until he went to Bruyneel.

So, the sweep of Driedaagse van West-Vlaanderen by RS riders, previously pack fodder excepting Roessler. Is that just a continuation of the trend?

I post this in the doping forum only because of the association with Bruyneel and doping. And that blood vector doping most benefits TTs and climbing.

I am willing to accept the possibility that Bruyneel is just a magician and can make a silk purse out of a sow's ear.
 
Personally i doubt Brunyeel cares too much about Driedaagse van West-Vlaanderen.

The people who performed were all good talents as well, nothing overly surprising about their results individualy.

If hes able to give riders some new super programmes, lets see if he can get it done at bigger races than Driedaagse van West-Vlaanderen first.

Having said that, given Brunyeels history, i wont be too surprised if Janez is finishing as close to Contador on Alpe this year as he did last year.

Edit: ALso Contador has managed to continue to be a super tter even after leaving Brunyeel and Kwiatkowski is a very young rider with a lot of potential, so his coming 3rd is is no big surprise.
 
Mar 13, 2009
16,854
0
0
you are a muppet mate.

Leipheimer was a decent chrono rider back in the mid 90s in domestic.

He came on the podium in all 4 chronos in the firs GT he contested, the 99 Vuelta. prologue, 2 medium chronos, and a hill chrono if I remember.

Jani beat Nibali and Dekker in about the 2004 u23 Chrono worlds. It may have been 2005.

U23.

Mega fail post. Close thread. Ban muppet.
 

flicker

BANNED
Aug 17, 2009
4,153
0
0
steve_r said:
In the past, Bruyneel's riders have been conspicuous for their "new-found" time trialing prowess. For example, tiny climbers like Leipheimer and Brajkovic who were terrible at TTs becoming world-beaters all of a sudden when joining Bruyneel's team.

Contador as well, even though he was Spanish U23 TT champ, was not going to be beating dedicated TT riders until he went to Bruyneel.

So, the sweep of Driedaagse van West-Vlaanderen by RS riders, previously pack fodder excepting Roessler. Is that just a continuation of the trend?

I post this in the doping forum only because of the association with Bruyneel and doping. And that blood vector doping most benefits TTs and climbing.

I am willing to accept the possibility that Bruyneel is just a magician and can make a silk purse out of a sow's ear.

I always wonder about this, not from a doping statement but from a physiological standpoint. Why would a man or woman who could climb(WATTs) be able to transform that into (SPEED). I always have wondered why a guy like Valverde can (CLIMB=WATTs) plus (SPEED=SPRINT) is not a super hot TT man. Levi I have heard is quick but he does not have(POWER) like Valverde.
If Levi were a Bruyneel (AUTOMATON) I would think he would be able to do anything the so called puppetmaster ordered.
 
Feb 14, 2010
2,202
0
0
I just read a new article about Contador that mentioned his soccer, wanting to play a different position, and switching to cycling when he got benched. It also had a line about his having a climber's body, but wanting to be a Time Trialist.
Que tenía cuerpo de escalador y, como quería ser contrarrelojista, se presentó por libre en un campenato de España de crono y acabó tercero. Que decidió, aún adolescente, ser ciclista y, descarado, llamó por teléfono al director del Iberdrola amateur para que le fichara.
Here's the Babelfish translation:
That it had climber body and, as wanted to be contrarrelojista, one appeared by free in a campenato of Spain of crono and finished third party. That it decided, still adolescent, to be cycling and, shameless, called by telephone to the director of the Iberdrola amateur so that him fichara.
And Google Translate:

He had the body of climber and, as he wanted to be trial specialist, was presented for free in a campenato of Spain time trial and finished third. That decided, still a teenager, to be a cyclist and blatant telephoned the director of amateur Iberdrola to sign him.
http://www.elcorreo.com/alava/v/20110307/deportes/mas-deporte/primero-muchos-triunfos-20110307.html

So he wanted to be a good Time Trialist, and was good at it, for about as long as he wanted to be a cyclist. In the past month, he spent a day on the track during the aborted (for him) Saxo Training camp. He raced the Volta ao Algarve, and Riis said he had an idea of some improvements that could be made. Alberto resisted, but Riis told him to try it, that he could always go back. They spent another day at the track in Mallorca working on a new position that Bjarne said was worth 1.75 seconds per kilometer. Contador spent 4.5 hours working on it last Monday on the road. Thursday Contador trained more than three hours with his team, then while they went to the hotel, he went to learn the TT route.

My point is that he always thought of himself as a TT guy, had success his first time out, and he puts in the preparation.

http://velonews.competitor.com/2011/02/news/new-time-trial-position-helps-alberto-contador-shave-seconds-against-the-clock_161963

Bruyneel is still banned for March. Can we please forget him until April? It's been so nice without him.
 
Jul 27, 2009
749
0
0
steve_r said:
In the past, Bruyneel's riders have been conspicuous for their "new-found" time trialing prowess. For example, tiny climbers like Leipheimer and Brajkovic who were terrible at TTs becoming world-beaters all of a sudden when joining Bruyneel's team.
Well two of the top three in the TT are members of the NZ 4000m pursuit team which I believe is pretty well ranked (track not really my thing), the course was aparantly pretty flat with three turns and lasted 8 minutes. Go figure.

Aside from that of all these fast short distance pursuiters/TT'ers Sergent seems to me to have the best physical shape to transfer it over into prologue and tt success i.e. more than Phinney, Bobridge, Thomas, etc. I'm surpised at all that he put 10 seconds on them.

I think you're reading too much into the doping angle. It's a small time event at the start of spring.
 
blackcat said:
you are a muppet mate.
Leipheimer was a decent chrono rider back in the mid 90s in domestic.

He came on the podium in all 4 chronos in the firs GT he contested, the 99 Vuelta. prologue, 2 medium chronos, and a hill chrono if I remember.

Jani beat Nibali and Dekker in about the 2004 u23 Chrono worlds. It may have been 2005.

U23.

Mega fail post. Close thread. Ban muppet.
Jesus man take it easy will you. :rolleyes:
 
Oct 29, 2009
2,578
0
0
Ok guys, I think blackcat will have got the message by now, if not from us than hopefully from you guys. Can we move in from that now and get back on topic?
 
May 26, 2010
28,143
2
0
If BlackCat is in Europe i suggest posting late in the evening after maybe a drink or 2 does not make for interesting debate;)

Edit: just because Hog is suspended doesn't mean his hand is not controlling his puppets and every opportunity to question the results of his athletes should not be ignored.
 
May 6, 2009
8,522
1
0
Or how about these guys are good bike riders and specialise in TT, prolouge's etc.? Nah, impossible, you need dope.
 
Dec 7, 2010
8,771
3
0
steve_r said:
In the past, Bruyneel's riders have been conspicuous for their "new-found" time trialing prowess. For example, tiny climbers like Leipheimer and Brajkovic who were terrible at TTs becoming world-beaters all of a sudden when joining Bruyneel's team.

Contador as well, even though he was Spanish U23 TT champ, was not going to be beating dedicated TT riders until he went to Bruyneel.

So, the sweep of Driedaagse van West-Vlaanderen by RS riders, previously pack fodder excepting Roessler. Is that just a continuation of the trend?

I post this in the doping forum only because of the association with Bruyneel and doping. And that blood vector doping most benefits TTs and climbing.

I am willing to accept the possibility that Bruyneel is just a magician and can make a silk purse out of a sow's ear.
Well I would not go so far as to say that Wheel Sucker aka the Bottle is a climber. Brajkovic I am not sure about but the ToyPistol had some experience with the Chrono before da Hog got him,,,,,Venga Venga man was not bad at preparing guys for the Chrono also.

These Shack attack boys performance in the Dried – van –wess-vlaan is just what it is…what was the comp? Looks like the comp was about the same level as they are…..

I agree wid the BlackCat….epic fail on the OP.
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
blackcat said:
you are a muppet mate.

Leipheimer was a decent chrono rider back in the mid 90s in domestic.

He came on the podium in all 4 chronos in the firs GT he contested, the 99 Vuelta. prologue, 2 medium chronos, and a hill chrono if I remember.

Jani beat Nibali and Dekker in about the 2004 u23 Chrono worlds. It may have been 2005.

U23.

Mega fail post. Close thread. Ban muppet.
How come you swing so quickly from the "all riders dope, the whole sport is a fraud" to defending riders. very strange. Posts a bit ott really.
 
Jul 3, 2009
305
0
0
El Pistolero said:
Contador was a time trial specialist before he became a climber.

Fail.
I don't know what he's on right now, but it has to be the same stuff he had in 2009 when he crushed Cance at the Tour.

AC alwas had some talent for shorter ITTs (decent abilities). His achievements on long ITTs are by no way possible due to "small adjustments of his position on the bike". I guess Bjarne just uses the same "techniques" as Bruyneel.
 
SiAp1984 said:
I don't know what he's on right now, but it has to be the same stuff he had in 2009 when he crushed Cance at the Tour.

AC alwas had some talent for shorter ITTs (decent abilities). His achievements on long ITTs are by no way possible due to "small adjustments of his position on the bike". I guess Bjarne just uses the same "techniques" as Bruyneel.
Maybe decent, but not superlative (and I am NOT trying to generate a bunch of defensive Contador fan responses!)

His positioning is good - but not great. He has a bad habit of dipping his head and placing the long axis against the wind, and does not have a stable and comfortable position on the bike (commonly & constantly slides back and forth on the saddle). For normal human powered folks, these small details would be enormous handicaps.

He also obviously lacks the obvious horsepower of someone like Cancellara.

Maybe good at the TT, but should not be great.

On the subject of point of good or great, why have no GC contenders pursued the hour record since Indurain and Rominger? If they really are TT gods, with improved equipment, conditioning and training shouldn't someone have been attempting this at some point in the last 17 years?

Dave.
 
SiAp1984 said:
I don't know what he's on right now, but it has to be the same stuff he had in 2009 when he crushed Cance at the Tour.

AC alwas had some talent for shorter ITTs (decent abilities). His achievements on long ITTs are by no way possible due to "small adjustments of his position on the bike". I guess Bjarne just uses the same "techniques" as Bruyneel.
I think that TT was dissected and discussed till death back then, so no need to rip it open again, but don't forget that it was 1) not flat and 2) there was a lot of talk about a motobike going just ever so slightly in front of Contador so he could use the draft. Small things like that can turn the tables on even the most dominant TT'er - also don't forget that just because Canc usually wins doesn't mean he wins them all.
 
I think it's more likely that Bruyneel has a very strong affinity for good time trailers. There are lots of talented young riders out there but almost all that Bruyneel hires are good time trial talents rather than sprinters or climbers etc.
 
2 of the guys are pursuiters, always going to be good in short TTs. Oliveira medalled in the U23 TT Worlds. Kwiatkowski is a supertalent. Rosseler's experienced, racing on home roads and useful against the clock.

Lots of the late-career reinventions and TT strength/sudden climbing form of Bruyneel riders has been suspicious over the years, but Sergent, Bewley, Kwiatkowski, Rosseler and Oliveira mastering a race where the prologue settled everything is hardly the 2008 Vuelta a Asturias.
 
Jun 23, 2009
128
0
0
Contador was always a good time trialist. His first victory as a pro was a timetrial. But he didn't get much training in his early years. Also during the first year with Bruyneel he got no TT training because the "Mastermind" hired him as a gerario for Basso. (grrrrrrr) Later Bruyneel wanted him to help Leipheimer to win the Tour. The rest is history we all know.
Bruyneel wasn't happy with Contador's victory. Spaniards were in the team to help the top riders in the mountain but, oh goodness, not to win a GT.
If it would have been possible he wouldn't have Contador taken to the Giro. But Zomegnan insisted in Alberto's participation.
I don't think that Contador's TT skills have something to do with doping because you can recognize a development when he got real training.
Leipheimer on the other hand wasn't a great timetrialist when he was with Gerolsteiner. But suddenly when being with Bruyneel he was great against the clock. That makes me suspicious. And speaking of the mountains: Contador beat his brother Fran in the mountains with a bike made of steel that was too big for him -- he was thirteen. Think what you want. Sometimes you have natural born athletes or artists. Think of Mozart who gave his first big concerts as a child. And I assure you that EPO wasn't invented then. ;)
 
isayic said:
Contador was always a good time trialist. His first victory as a pro was a timetrial. But he didn't get much training in his early years. Also during the first year with Bruyneel he got no TT training because the "Mastermind" hired him as a gerario for Basso. (grrrrrrr) Later Bruyneel wanted him to help Leipheimer to win the Tour. The rest is history we all know.
Bruyneel wasn't happy with Contador's victory. Spaniards were in the team to help the top riders in the mountain but, oh goodness, not to win a GT.
If it would have been possible he wouldn't have Contador taken to the Giro. But Zomegnan insisted in Alberto's participation.
I don't think that Contador's TT skills have something to do with doping because you can recognize a development when he got real training.
Leipheimer on the other hand wasn't a great timetrialist when he was with Gerolsteiner. But suddenly when being with Bruyneel he was great against the clock. That makes me suspicious. And speaking of the mountains: Contador beat his brother Fran in the mountains with a bike made of steel that was too big for him -- he was thirteen. Think what you want. Sometimes you have natural born athletes or artists. Think of Mozart who gave his first big concerts as a child. And I assure you that EPO wasn't invented then. ;)
Are you suggesting that Gerolsteiner was clean?

Dave.
 
Feb 14, 2010
2,202
0
0
This from a 12/24/2002 Daily Peloton previews of Spanish Rookies for the 2003 season. Why try to give Bruyneel the credit, or pretend Contador couldn't always Time Trial? This article was written not long after Alberto's 20th birthday, so he was the Spanish National TT Champion as a teenager.

Alberto Contador: Being an excellent Time-Triallist, this 20-year-old from Madrid couldn't sign with any other team than Manolo Saiz' ONCE-Eroski, where he could even improve his time-trialling skills, which so far have earned him a Spanish National title. Actually he was already riding for an ONCE-related squad, Würth-ONCE, last year. Not a bad climber either (in July he also won the uphill TT into Santiagomendi ), the man could be another serious GC threat in stage races.
http://www.dailypeloton.com/displayarticle.asp?pk=2580
 

ASK THE COMMUNITY