Bruyneel as a manager - Savoldelli's testimony

[Gregory]

Although this is old news, it was never posted on this forum. This statement may be interesting in the context of the recent events and the tension within the Astana camp.
From :http://www.cyclingweekly.co.uk/news/latest/348103/savoldelli-i-left-astana-because-of-bruyneel.html

SAVOLDELLI: I LEFT ASTANA BECAUSE OF BRUYNEEL
Tuesday, 4 December 2007
Cycling Weekly

Paolo Savoldelli has revealed that Johan Bruyneel’s arrival at Astana was enough to prompt him to leave.

Savoldelli joined Discovery Channel in 2005 and went on to be the surprise winner of the Giro d’Italia with a daredevil descent and heroic ascent to Sestrières to his pink jersey.

Later that summer he helped Lance Armstrong win his seventh and final Tour de France, taking a stage win at Revel in the process.

The following year he could finish only fifth in the Giro behind a rampaging Ivan Basso.

In 2007, Savoldelli rode for Astana but he failed to make an impact at the Giro until the penultimate stage, when he won the time trial at Verona. His Tour de France was ended prematurely when the Astana team was asked to leave following Alexandre Vinokourov’s positive dope test.

He rejected the option to renew his contract at Astana, choosing to join the smaller Italian team, LPR, where Danilo Di Luca will be one of his team-mates.

And he has explained that the decision to install Bruyneel as team manager forced him to look elsewhere.

“As soon as he joined Astana, I decided to leave. He still owes me my share of the prize money from the 2005 Tour we won with Discovery. Also, he was just never honest with me,” said Savoldelli.

 

[Epicycle]

Pro Cycling magazine recently quoted former Discovery and Astana rider Benoit Joachim saying, "Johan Bruyneel's great gift is that he's a liar".

 

[Carboncrank]

Pro Cycling magazine recently quoted former Discovery and Astana rider Benoit Joachim saying, "Johan Bruyneel's great gift is that he's a liar".

damn, it took 820 view before someone bit. .lol

 

[BroDeal]

Jeebus. It was not just riders like Andreu and Vasseur. Armstrong and Bruyneel cheated Savoldelli out of his money too.

The Savoldelli situation is similar to the one with Contador. Even though Savoldelli had won the Giro once before, he was still never given total leadership of the team's Giro squad. Tommy D. was allowed to go into the race thinking that he was one of the leaders.

 

[ThisFrenchGuy]

A gipsy woman told him years ago that a latin rider successful in the land of pasta would upset his long love and threatens the very survival of our planet.
It was a pre-emptive strike... and now after this TdF no one can deny the gipsy woman was right

Savoldelli was a mere collateral victim. But his 2005 Tour earnings helped save the world, so...

Liberty Seguros is the monster child of Saiz and Bruyneel. As soon as he stops winning, I feel everything is gonna come down...

 

[craig1985]

Couldn't Savoldelli just sue Bruyneel for unpaid prize money? Mind you I'm not sure how it works when Bruyneel lives in Spain and Savoldelli lives in Italy.

 

[ThisFrenchGuy]

Couldn't Savoldelli just sue Bruyneel for unpaid prize money? Mind you I'm not sure how it works when Bruyneel lives in Spain and Savoldelli lives in Italy.

I do not think there is written agreements on prize distribution. It is mostly informal as far as I know. You would have to trace the money back in the accounting of the team (if it ever appears there) and prove that you were entitled to part of the money and that there was some sort of oral agreement.

Knowing the habits of the peloton on "omerta", he would have a tough time proving anything in a court of law.

I guess, since his allegations relies only on its word, some could even say Savoldelli is bitter or a liar.
As for "that other issue" it mostly comes down to personal opinion and gut feeling.

My opinion is that Bruyneel is not a good man.

 

[ExRower]

bruyneel has been an @$$ ever since he wheelsucked indurain to victory in back during his ONCE days.

 

[sherer]

never heard this about holding back on the winning money from the tours. I read Armstrong stopped taking any money from that so all the riders got more of a share.

Sometimes I never know what to believe

 

[Jonathan]

I've always held Savoldelli in high regard; he never seemed to be the kind of person to lash out at others. I could be wrong, but I don't think he would say these things if he didn't really believe them himself.

At the same time, we should be wary of demonising Bruyneel too much. He is obviously more loyal to Armstrong than to other riders, but that worked out very well in his previous teams. Perhaps he'd have been more relaxed if Armstrong hadn't come back. As it was, the Astana team turned out to be the perfect setup for a Harold Pinter play.

 

[craig1985]

never heard this about holding back on the winning money from the tours. I read Armstrong stopped taking any money from that so all the riders got more of a share.

Sometimes I never know what to believe

And if you read Armstrong's second book, he said he doubled the riders prize winnings when he won the 2002 Tour. Make of that what you will.

 

[sherer]

I've always held Savoldelli in high regard; he never seemed to be the kind of person to lash out at others. I could be wrong, but I don't think he would say these things if he didn't really believe them himself.

At the same time, we should be wary of demonising Bruyneel too much. He is obviously more loyal to Armstrong than to other riders, but that worked out very well in his previous teams. Perhaps he'd have been more relaxed if Armstrong hadn't come back. As it was, the Astana team turned out to be the perfect setup for a Harold Pinter play.

it does seem like Bruyneel and the old guard just got sucked into the whole comeback think.

if they had thought about it a bit more they would have sided with Contador and got Lance to fall in line with that. Could have had a few more GT wins then

 

[ThisFrenchGuy]

Does JB really wants more GT wins? I tought it was commonly known he was "bored" of it all and that LA comeback juiced him up. I did read that a few times.

Let's face it, LA is not just cycling, he's good business. I would perfectly understand this kind of choice. It's also a real challenge, one that will be difficult to achieve.

To answer an earlier message, it's not really about demonizing JB.
Savoldelli made a claim 18 moths ago and there doesn't seem to have been any follow-ups on that. Is he to be believed? With the opinion I have of JB, I tend to believe the italian rider. Which in turn strenghens the bias I might have against Bruyneel.

 

[Angliru]

It was my understanding that the reason Bruyneel cancelled his retirement plans was because of the vast potential he saw in Contador and he saw an opportunity and the challenge to ride him to another Tour or string of Tour wins.

 

[Rex789]

Just my opinion, but JB being the manager of Mister Armstrongs new team, he's just going to be a figure head and riding LA's coat tails. LA will be managing the team and telling him the plans, strategies or anything else.

 

[Jonathan]

Just my opinion, but JB being the manager of Mister Armstrongs new team, he's just going to be a figure head and riding LA's coat tails. LA will be managing the team and telling him the plans, strategies or anything else.

I don't believe that; Armstrong has always indicated he values Bruyneel's opinion very much and that Bruyneel was the one making up the general plan. I don't think he can do that as well himself, let alone take over Bruyneel's task.

 

[ThisFrenchGuy]

It was my understanding that the reason Bruyneel cancelled his retirement plans was because of the vast potential he saw in Contador and he saw an opportunity and the challenge top ride him to another Tour or string of Tour wins.

I stand corrected if that is the case.
But obviously LA return changed all for JB. He obviously "gave up" on Contador and changed his plans.

 

[psychlist]

never heard this about holding back on the winning money from the tours. I read Armstrong stopped taking any money from that so all the riders got more of a share.

Sometimes I never know what to believe

I concur, however, I would say "oftentimes" rather than sometimes. So much of what we discuss here is speculation. It's interesting, but hardly conclusive.

I was wondering what happened to Salvodelli as he seems to have dropped off the face of the earth. My suspicion is that this might be a topic for the clinic.

 

[ThisFrenchGuy]

I concur, however, I would say "oftentimes" rather than sometimes. So much of what we discuss here is speculation. It's interesting, but hardly conclusive.

I was wondering what happened to Salvodelli as he seems to have dropped off the face of the earth. My suspicion is that this might be a topic for the clinic.

Judging from a quick glance at his results, he actually never really go away.
Had injuries in 2003-2005, was 5th in the 2006 Giro, 4th in Tirreno-Adriatico (2006), 12th in the 2007 Giro (plus a stage win), second in Tour de Romandie (2007), 15th in 2008 Giro. Those are declining but decent results.

He is now retired, I believe.

 

[Epicycle]

He is now retired, I believe.

Yes, Paolo retired at the end of last year.

 

[BroDeal]

And if you read Armstrong's second book, he said he doubled the riders prize winnings when he won the 2002 Tour. Make of that what you will.

L.A. Confidential covers how riders like Vasseur, Andreu, and Vaughters were cheated out of their cut of the pize money. As with Savoldelli, the pattern seemed to be that if someone was leaving the team then LA and Bruyneel figured they would be of no further use to them so there was no reason to pay them. Vaughters was cheated out of $6000. Andreu out of $20K.

 

[richwagmn]

Johan Bruyneel quote from Versus interview on Mt Ventoux stage.

"You can't race for second and third if you have first. At a certain moment you have to make decisions to sacrifice your strongest guys to only keep one guy on the podium"

I guess that rule only applies to LA.

 

[Smera1]

L.A. Confidential covers how riders like Vasseur, Andreu, and Vaughters were cheated out of their cut of the pize money. As with Savoldelli, the pattern seemed to be that if someone was leaving the team then LA and Bruyneel figured they would be of no further use to them so there was no reason to pay them. Vaughters was cheated out of $6000. Andreu out of $20K.

Hi BroDeal,
Do you have a copy of that book ?
Many Thanks,
Roberto

 

[BroDeal]

Hi BroDeal,
Do you have a copy of that book ?
Many Thanks,
Roberto

There are PDFs of an English translation of the book. I'll PM you. From Lance to Landis has much of the same info plus more; it is a better book and available in English.

 

[Smera1]

There are PDFs of an English translation of the book. I'll PM you. From Lance to Landis has much of the same info plus more; it is a better book and available in English.

Many Thanks for that, Bro !
I live in Brazil and do not have access to it. Many thanks again !