bustedcarbon.com

[bc_hills]

I'm sure that this website isn't new to anyone:

http://www.bustedcarbon.com

But is it just a random collection of anecdotal evidence that unscientifically suggests that there's a higher failure rate of carbon as compared to other materials, or do I start to seriously consider the safety of my carbon forks?

I don't suppose anyone has ever come across a study of frame/component material breakage rates?

 

[ElChingon]

Well based on my history we need a cracked Aluminum, and cracked Ti site as well. Not to mention twisted Steel. I've never broken a carbon frame, but the previous YES!

 

[Zigster]

implying titanium fails anywhere near as often as carbon is ridiculous, really

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=3741362681682291899

 

[Black Dog]

Carbon Fails suddenly and catastrophically. All materials fail. Carbon forks often outlast and test stronger than steel forks under lab testing. For the record I ride Ti with a carbon fork. I think carbon is to fragile from a wear and tear perspective. I would not want to toss away a frame after a crash or keep it wondering of there is some invisible damage that will end a ride in a bad way one day in the future.

 

[Black Dog]

implying titanium fails anywhere near as often as carbon is ridiculous, really

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=3741362681682291899

Good video but not fair in terms of failure for the intended use of the tube.

 

[bc_hills]

Carbon Fails suddenly and catastrophically. All materials fail. Carbon forks often outlast and test stronger than steel forks under lab testing. For the record I ride Ti with a carbon fork. I think carbon is to fragile from a wear and tear perspective. I would not want to toss away a frame after a crash or keep it wondering of there is some invisible damage that will end a ride in a bad way one day in the future.

That's the thing I guess. A bent fork, although a material failure, isn't the same thing as a carbon fork snapping with it's resulting instantaneous face plant.

Most of the "failures" on the site seem to be collisions and would've probably f'd up any frame. It's the unexplained fork failures that leave you scratching your head.

I do remember my old steel bikes being virtually indestructible. I've run into parked cars and road away with the front wheel just a little out of true (I was an easily distracted teenager).

 

[Black Dog]

That's the thing I guess. A bent fork, although a material failure, isn't the same thing as a carbon fork snapping with it's resulting instantaneous face plant.

Most of the "failures" on the site seem to be collisions and would've probably f'd up any frame. It's the unexplained fork failures that leave you scratching your head.

I do remember my old steel bikes being virtually indestructible. I've run into parked cars and road away with the front wheel just a little out of true (I was an easily distracted teenager).

There are very few unexplained or sudden carbon fork failures. You can rest assured that fork makers are very sensitive to potential lawsuits and as such over build their forks. Read this from way back in 2002:

http://velonews.competitor.com/2002...ical-qa-with-lennard-zinn-carbon-forks-2_3270

 

[Rip:30]

there might not be many but it only takes one faceplant to ruin your week/season/life

 

[dsut4392]

there might not be many but it only takes one faceplant to ruin your week/season/life

Yeah, you were "just riding along" when this happened, and would never have crashed had your fork not randomly broken.

 

[bc_hills]

There are very few unexplained or sudden carbon fork failures. You can rest assured that fork makers are very sensitive to potential lawsuits and as such over build their forks. Read this from way back in 2002:

http://velonews.competitor.com/2002...ical-qa-with-lennard-zinn-carbon-forks-2_3270

That FAQ is interesting and reassuring in its own way. I have no doubt that carbon tests well and performs as they say it does in stress and load cycle tests. The only prob I have with those tests is how well they mimic real world stresses. I can't help but think of those displays in IKEA stores where a robotic arm opens and shuts a cabinet door ten of thousands of times without any failures. The catch is that each cycle is perfect. Perfect motion and movement... not at all what really happens.

Most of the respondents to the faq excluded abuse... and I guess abuse is whatever breaks the part? So a carbon fork won't break until you break it, but then that was abuse, otherwise, it wouldn't be broken.

I'm being a little facetious, but something's gotta explain the abundance of threads like this...

http://forum.slowtwitch.com/Slowtwi...n_Forum_F1/Wolf_fork_failure_(pics)_P1656284/

scroll down for the pics.

The bustedcarbon site is full of cyclocross fails. Maybe cyclocross is just straight abuse?

 

[bc_hills]

Yeah, you were "just riding along" when this happened, and would never have crashed had your fork not randomly broken.

This guy was just riding along when his steel fork broke:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xe6KqdJndcU

 

[DirtyWorks]

This guy was just riding along when his steel fork broke:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xe6KqdJndcU

Hmm, yeah it broke because a bicycle fork is not designed to withstand sudden pulling forces. AKA, 'intended use.' That holds true for carbon too.

The question most would like answered is which of the documented carbon failure cases were outside the industry's 'intended use' scenario and which were. It looks like many are roof rack meets garage incidences.

 

[flyor64]

The one that got my attention was the Mavic (R-Sys I believe) wheel that disintegrated mid-crit on one of the editors over at VN. It appeared the spokes just "exploded"...

 

[brianf7]

I have seen pleanty of broken steel tubes as well but the lighter we go with cutting edge tech the more chance of breakages. Carbon is getting better as is Ti.

 

[ElChingon]

implying titanium fails anywhere near as often as carbon is ridiculous, really

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=3741362681682291899

You should consult the LiteSpeed refund dept., almost every person I know has had their Ti frame exchanged for a non-cracked Titanium frame, it maybe strong but is sure cracks easily. Isn't LiteSpeed making carbon frames now

 

[Zigster]

let me run my own statistical survey
almost every person I know has not had their Ti frame exchanged for a non-cracked Titanium frame. wow that was easy.

it maybe strong but is sure cracks easily
nonsense, this is just straight up flat-earth denial

 

[Black Dog]

That FAQ is interesting and reassuring in its own way. I have no doubt that carbon tests well and performs as they say it does in stress and load cycle tests. The only prob I have with those tests is how well they mimic real world stresses. I can't help but think of those displays in IKEA stores where a robotic arm opens and shuts a cabinet door ten of thousands of times without any failures. The catch is that each cycle is perfect. Perfect motion and movement... not at all what really happens.

Most of the respondents to the faq excluded abuse... and I guess abuse is whatever breaks the part? So a carbon fork won't break until you break it, but then that was abuse, otherwise, it wouldn't be broken.

I'm being a little facetious, but something's gotta explain the abundance of threads like this...

http://forum.slowtwitch.com/Slowtwitch_Forums_C1/Triathlon_Forum_F1/Wolf_fork_failure_(pics)_P1656284/

scroll down for the pics.

The bustedcarbon site is full of cyclocross fails. Maybe cyclocross is just straight abuse?

Do you want to bet that his stem was over tightened and or the plug was not installed properly.

 

[ElChingon]

let me run my own statistical survey
almost every person I know has not had their Ti frame exchanged for a non-cracked Titanium frame. wow that was easy.

it maybe strong but is sure cracks easily
nonsense, this is just straight up flat-earth denial

I take it the LiteSpeed customer support line still hasn't answered due to the barrage of exchanges its processing

 

[Zigster]

are you telling me with a straight face you think Litespeeds have a comparable failure rate with, say Cervélo?

*****, please

carbon has a lot of advantages over titanium but durability is not one of them

 

[forty four]

are you telling me with a straight face you think Litespeeds have a comparable failure rate with, say Cervélo?

*****, please

carbon has a lot of advantages over titanium but durability is not one of them

litespeeds suck especially these days terrible warranty i know of a few sent back. my friend has had over 40 bikes steel carbon aluminum ti etc... lightspeed won worst frame ever award from him sad.

 

[RDV4ROUBAIX]

Carbon frames and forks do have a higher fail rate than steel/alu/ti. But it's much better now than it was 10 years ago, carbon is getting more reliable. I remember in the late 90's early 00 walking through a labyrinth of boxes full of warrantied, snapped and delaminated carbon forks at my workplace everyday. some stacks were overflowing, some were over 6ft high!

 

[ElChingon]

A quick search is all I did and after reading just a few, let me see anyone with a straight face say its the best frame (aka Ti).

http://www.google.com/search?rlz=1C1GGGE_enUS365US365&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8&q=cracked+titanium+frame

Then again, these are just internet posts and if you don't believe them then why would they believe this one?

 

[Zigster]

please learn how to use google properly
"cracked titanium frame"
97 results
"cracked carbon frame"
9,670 results

think about that huge discrepancy
1) considering how much longer titanium has been a common frame material
2) how many of those cracks were in mountain bikes

 

[Zigster]

A quick search is all I did and after reading just a few, let me see anyone with a straight face say its the best frame (aka Ti).

I am not saying titanium is the best frame material, especially given the price, but it is clearly much more durable than carbon fiber. Anyone who claims otherwise is smoking something.

 

[ElChingon]

Yet the number of carbon fames increases if is not taking over all other materials? Makes you feel odd doesn't it.

Maybe we'll see some weekly TV news show do an in debt analysis on its failure rate and how the world should stop using it. Better yet call AirBus I hear their new planes are mostly carbon as well, guess many will never fly again due to its failure rates , looks like I will be getting a whole row to myself again on long flights.