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Cadel riding the Tour Down Under?

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Aug 12, 2009
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powderpuff said:
Yes I do know him and very well.
An accountant, oh sorry I thought you were an Aussie battler;

No I was stating earlier that the majority of aussie households are regarded as just that...aussie battlers. I never indicated I was or considered one. Surely you heard of Howards battlers, the lot who kept voting for him because the Liberal party brought prosperity?

Since you know Cadel, perhaps you could ask him a question. When he was on Andrew Denton's program he was asked has he ever been offered PEDs. I suspect, based on his answer and body language, that he was lying. He said no. Most here would find that hard to believe given his team and cycling history. He of course awkwardly denied he'd ever been offered PEDs. You can find the clip on YouTube if you don't believe me. Ask him if he was telling the truth. Make sure you look him in the eye. You might learn something new about him. Also tell him to keep doing what he's been doing the last month or two. Its a nice change and seems to be working well. Also to drop the Tour aspirations, he'll never beat Contador so he might as well try and win the Giro or Vuelta. He deserves to win at least one. Just remind him to not take it personally when most of the world and Australia don't even register the race happened.

Back on topic, I'll be very surprised if Cadel races the TDU. All the news is futile till November and he inks in his full program. News agencies making headlines, for no more or less the biggest race in their nation. Gotta sell it to tragics who'll only show because a native champion is racing. Till then, adieu
 
Jun 16, 2009
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Galic Ho said:
The Daily Telegraph said the same more or less. Same parent company. News Limited and Fairfax media run all the Australian newspapers. No shock there berty.

I'm not saying it's shocking, I'm just reporting what's been said now previously by SBS and today by News Limited. Someone asked is Cadel coming and all I've done is link to a couple of news services (SBS is still not Fairfax or News Corp) who state that is at least Cadel is thinking about it.

If you want a pointless argument go into the clinic and write something nice about Armstrong or Vinokourev.
 
A

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Galic Ho said:
Since you know Cadel, perhaps you could ask him a question. When he was on Andrew Denton's program he was asked has he ever been offered PEDs. I suspect, based on his answer and body language, that he was lying. He said no. Most here would find that hard to believe given his team and cycling history. He of course awkwardly denied he'd ever been offered PEDs.

Of course he would lie on TV, obviously to protect the T-Mobile teammates that offered him PEDs, and becoz he is threatened by the consequences of speaking out in the peak of your career. Most cyclists follow the code of silence until they retire, becoz they do not want to be hassled in the peleton for speaking out. Especially a guy like Cadel, who we know is not well liked, and we know did not get on with the T-Mobile junkies, so why would he speak out on Oz TV about it especially when at the time he was in the peak of his career.

There was an article on CN about 6 months ago (i cbf finding it, but it is out there) but it was a cyclist who anonymously revealed that he was repeatedley offered PEDs when he was at T-Mobile/Telekom in 2003-2004. Obviously, he found it very difficult to stand up for himself becoz he was pressured, and it resulted in him leaving the team becoz he did not want PEDs... Given Cadel's awkwardness about the issue, and the fact that he was clearly the anonymous rider for them in 2003-04, then there is no point him coming out and saying T-Mobile did this whilst he was still an active rider. He is obviously threatened by the powers at be in his former team, as such, he said all this anonymously and avoids the direct question during a broadcast

EDIT: the link: http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/t-mobile-rider-claims-widespread-epo-use

EDIT: there is another article somewhere that says more, i will keep looking
 
Jun 16, 2009
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Galic Ho said:
No I was stating earlier that the majority of aussie households are regarded as just that...aussie battlers. I never indicated I was or considered one. Surely you heard of Howards battlers, the lot who kept voting for him because the Liberal party brought prosperity?

Since you know Cadel, perhaps you could ask him a question. When he was on Andrew Denton's program he was asked has he ever been offered PEDs. I suspect, based on his answer and body language, that he was lying. He said no. Most here would find that hard to believe given his team and cycling history. He of course awkwardly denied he'd ever been offered PEDs. You can find the clip on YouTube if you don't believe me. Ask him if he was telling the truth. Make sure you look him in the eye. You might learn something new about him. Also tell him to keep doing what he's been doing the last month or two. Its a nice change and seems to be working well. Also to drop the Tour aspirations, he'll never beat Contador so he might as well try and win the Giro or Vuelta. He deserves to win at least one. Just remind him to not take it personally when most of the world and Australia don't even register the race happened.

Back on topic, I'll be very surprised if Cadel races the TDU. All the news is futile till November and he inks in his full program. News agencies making headlines, for no more or less the biggest race in their nation. Gotta sell it to tragics who'll only show because a native champion is racing. Till then, adieu

You think he'll admit to taking drugs? That's obviously what you want. Insulting someone of their integrity is not great when they haven't been convicted of. Their was definetly some shifty business at Telekom but to presume everyone was doping is unfair. I think him(Powderpuff) being Cadel's friend, he can tell him what he wants and doesn't need you telling him what to say or what race to ride or questioning him about talking PED's.
 
Apr 29, 2009
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Galic Ho said:
No I was stating earlier that the majority of aussie households are regarded as just that...aussie battlers. I never indicated I was or considered one. Surely you heard of Howards battlers, the lot who kept voting for him because the Liberal party brought prosperity?

Since you know Cadel, perhaps you could ask him a question. When he was on Andrew Denton's program he was asked has he ever been offered PEDs. I suspect, based on his answer and body language, that he was lying. He said no. Most here would find that hard to believe given his team and cycling history. He of course awkwardly denied he'd ever been offered PEDs. You can find the clip on YouTube if you don't believe me. Ask him if he was telling the truth. Make sure you look him in the eye. You might learn something new about him. Also tell him to keep doing what he's been doing the last month or two. Its a nice change and seems to be working well. Also to drop the Tour aspirations, he'll never beat Contador so he might as well try and win the Giro or Vuelta. He deserves to win at least one. Just remind him to not take it personally when most of the world and Australia don't even register the race happened.

Back on topic, I'll be very surprised if Cadel races the TDU. All the news is futile till November and he inks in his full program. News agencies making headlines, for no more or less the biggest race in their nation. Gotta sell it to tragics who'll only show because a native champion is racing. Till then, adieu

I will never ask him that question, he says "no" that's good enough for me.

Never beat Contador, never win the worlds; he is not trying to fulfill your aspirations or anyone elses; he has his own goals and will try to succeed in those. Whether SIL gives him that opportunity is up to them and his contract.

See you at the book launch.;)
 
Jun 16, 2009
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Mountain Goat said:
Of course he would lie on TV, obviously to protect the T-Mobile teammates that offered him PEDs, and becoz he is threatened by the consequences of speaking out in the peak of your career. Most cyclists follow the code of silence until they retire, becoz they do not want to be hassled in the peleton for speaking out. Especially a guy like Cadel, who we know is not well liked, and we know did not get on with the T-Mobile junkies, so why would he speak out on Oz TV about it especially when at the time he was in the peak of his career.

There was an article on CN about 6 months ago (i cbf finding it, but it is out there) but it was a cyclist who anonymously revealed that he was repeatedley offered PEDs when he was at T-Mobile/Telekom in 2003-2004. Obviously, he found it very difficult to stand up for himself becoz he was pressured, and it resulted in him leaving the team becoz he did not want PEDs... Given Cadel's awkwardness about the issue, and the fact that he was clearly the anonymous rider for them in 2003-04, then there is no point him coming out and saying T-Mobile did this whilst he was still an active rider. He is obviously threatened by the powers at be in his former team, as such, he said all this anonymously and avoids the direct question during a broadcast

EDIT: the link: http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/t-mobile-rider-claims-widespread-epo-use

EDIT: there is another article somewhere that says more, i will keep looking

With the denton interview, i don't see how he was awkward in his response. He said no. Their was a pause because he was on the other side of the earth to denton.I sent a message to evans early this year on his guestbook page about competing against cheats and how he felt about the issue, this is what he replied
****, thank you. In everything we do in life there are people who cheat/look for the easy option , etc. In cycling, it is one of the MANY challenges we face as professionals
 
Aug 12, 2009
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badboyberty said:
I'm not saying it's shocking, I'm just reporting what's been said now previously by SBS and today by News Limited. Someone asked is Cadel coming and all I've done is link to a couple of news services (SBS is still not Fairfax or News Corp) who state that is at least Cadel is thinking about it.

If you want a pointless argument go into the clinic and write something nice about Armstrong or Vinokourev.

I know you were answering a question. Perhaps you didn't interpret my tone properly. I did mention the newspapers specifically, SBS is a television network, funded partly by the national government. The thing is they all borrow each others news on many issues/events. One person does the work, the others copy. Thats the media, and I don't have a problem with it. I take issue with shonky reporting, bot the borrowing, which is inevitable.

I really like Vino. For the way he rides and his bluntness. The man is a character. Lance has done some amazing work for cancer awareness. Vino has done the same for Kazakhstan, just switch the caner awareness to the nation and the promotion is the same. Both men are characters and I wish them no ill will. However, they may disagree with me on the issue of doping and dopers getting caught.

auscyclefan94 said:
You think he'll admit to taking drugs? That's obviously what you want. Insulting someone of their integrity is not great when they haven't been convicted of. Their was definetly some shifty business at Telekom but to presume everyone was doping is unfair. I think him(Powderpuff) being Cadel's friend, he can tell him what he wants and doesn't need you telling him what to say or what race to ride or questioning him about talking PED's.

No offense was meant in the questions. Cadel won't admit to taking drugs, but it is no surprise you jump to his defense. Favourite rider. Brits do the same for Wiggins, heck they realise, LA is not crystal clear but fail to identify that with there countrymen. The part about learning something new about Cadel was to not take everything he says to heart. Do you watch House? If you did you would realise people lie. For many reasons. The figure vary but a huge proportion of what we say is given in body language and vocal fluctuations. I used the example of asking about doping and his response on Andrew Dentons show to highlight what I believe was a lie. Cadel only stated that he had never been offered drugs, not that he took them. I believe he was stretching the truth in order to avoid an unpleasant question...that is all. Whether he took drugs is another matter, but my mentioning of his team history, Mapei and Telekom, was only to highlight the offer to use would almost inevitably have arisen. Hence I think he had been offered. Did he use? I don't care, thats his business. Watch the footage on YouTube and think about Clinton's confession of innocence with Lewinsky. The body language is scaringly similar. My first law lecturer told my class to never stop questioning. That is all I am doing. As for Cadels integrity...that is his business and not mine. He is a big boy, he'll brush speculation and let his bike do the talking. I couldn't care less what he done in the past. But I like many others don't take his word for granted, especially given his aloft and elusive nature. Thought to his credit he sticks to his guns and is genuine about what he says.

To powderpuff, I know Cadel is not trying to fulfill my aspirations. I said he deserves to win a grand tour. I hope he does, he certainly has the talent. He did fantastically at the Worlds, but any realist knows he does not have AC's number. AC will be nigh on impossible to beat next year at the Tour. If Cadel wants to win, he should focus on a race he can win and I wish him the best of luck at whatever he does. If he wants the accolades and attention (his previous comments suggest he does) he would be wise to go for the win at the Tour Contador is not at. For the record I think he will go for the Giro win and skip the TDU. But that is me.
 
Mountain Goat said:
Of course he would lie on TV, obviously to protect the T-Mobile teammates that offered him PEDs, and becoz he is threatened by the consequences of speaking out in the peak of your career. Most cyclists follow the code of silence until they retire, becoz they do not want to be hassled in the peleton for speaking out. Especially a guy like Cadel, who we know is not well liked, and we know did not get on with the T-Mobile junkies, so why would he speak out on Oz TV about it especially when at the time he was in the peak of his career.

There was an article on CN about 6 months ago (i cbf finding it, but it is out there) but it was a cyclist who anonymously revealed that he was repeatedley offered PEDs when he was at T-Mobile/Telekom in 2003-2004. Obviously, he found it very difficult to stand up for himself becoz he was pressured, and it resulted in him leaving the team becoz he did not want PEDs... Given Cadel's awkwardness about the issue, and the fact that he was clearly the anonymous rider for them in 2003-04, then there is no point him coming out and saying T-Mobile did this whilst he was still an active rider. He is obviously threatened by the powers at be in his former team, as such, he said all this anonymously and avoids the direct question during a broadcast

EDIT: the link: http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/t-mobile-rider-claims-widespread-epo-use

EDIT: there is another article somewhere that says more, i will keep looking

Very helpful, ta!
 
Jun 16, 2009
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Galic Ho said:
...Agree with Cadel racing at the TDU for the fans, but you do not acknowledge that the main reason for Cadel to race is self interest. He can win it if he tries. Heck Alan Davis won it, Cadel would have no trouble. Look at the logic, Cadel just doesn't care and the convenient excuse is "my program doesn't permit it." Rubbish, especially for a rider who we here all the time is the best in Australia. He could win any time he wants, he just doesn't want to turn up and fair enough, he's entitled to, but I for one am not buying his reasoning/excuse.

I wasn't going to reply point by point to your ramblings but when I saw this I feel I have to chip in. Being one of the best Grand Tour riders in the world and being able to win a short stage race tailor made for sprinters is a very different thing.

Up until it was granted ProTour status the Tour Down Under was won by opportunists and rouleurs who went away with a long break and gained minutes over most of the field. In the last two years the race has been controlled from go to woe by sprinters' teams, and fast finishers who can survive short punchy climbs like Alan Davis and Andre Greipel have came to dominate results. There are no time trials or mountains in the TdU so it's highly unlikely that Cadel can gain time on the field.
Only one serious breakaway got clear of the main field of the 2009 TdU, and that was largely thanks to the carnage caused by a stupidly parked police motorcycle, and even then that group of 25 riders including O'Grady, Michael Rogers, LL Sanchez and Lance Armstrong couldn't stay away to the finish.

Saying that Cadel can win the TdU in it's current form shows you know very little about the sport. The TdU is good preparation for Milan San Remo, not for le Tour, LBL or even la Giro.
 
Aug 12, 2009
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badboyberty said:
I wasn't going to reply point by point to your ramblings but when I saw this I feel I have to chip in. Being one of the best Grand Tour riders in the world and being able to win a short stage race tailor made for sprinters is a very different thing.

Saying that Cadel can win the TdU in it's current form shows you know very little about the sport. The TdU is good preparation for Milan San Remo, not for le Tour, LBL or even la Giro.

Nice try. A local Adelaide chump saying an aussie could not win. Its about time gaps you goof ball. Cadel is always up there with the sprinters. All it takes is a strategic move on one of those pathetic climbs South Australians rave about and low and behold Cadel could have enough time gained to win. Sprinters will not beat him significantly in the sprints. They may get the stage win but no time. Who won before Davis this year? How many stages did the 2008 winner get and how many were in a breakaway group and not a bunch sprint. Selective memory or is it that I know more about that borefest in Adelaide than you do. The stupid setup of the race is the primary reason why Cadel will not race it...it is mostly flat, horrendously hot and boring. I've been repeating this tune the entire thread. Cadel seems to not care in the slightest for the event. Hence he won't try and win if he showed...but he could if the wanted.
 
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Galic Ho said:
Nice try. A local Adelaide chump saying an aussie could not win. Its about time gaps you goof ball. Cadel is always up there with the sprinters. All it takes is a strategic move on one of those pathetic climbs South Australians rave about and low and behold Cadel could have enough time gained to win. Sprinters will not beat him significantly in the sprints. They may get the stage win but no time. Who won before Davis this year? How many stages did the 2008 winner get and how many were in a breakaway group and not a bunch sprint. Selective memory or is it that I know more about that borefest in Adelaide than you do. The stupid setup of the race is the primary reason why Cadel will not race it...it is mostly flat, horrendously hot and boring. I've been repeating this tune the entire thread. Cadel seems to not care in the slightest for the event. Hence he won't try and win if he showed...but he could if the wanted.

If your referring to Wilunga Hill, well nobody really raves about it as it's only 3km at 7%. Not overly hard compared to some Victorian climbs e.g. Mt Buller which it's last 6km are at 12% and it's at 1800m above sea level. That's what you'd rave about.
 
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Galic Ho said:
Nice try. A local Adelaide chump saying an aussie could not win. Its about time gaps you goof ball. Cadel is always up there with the sprinters. All it takes is a strategic move on one of those pathetic climbs South Australians rave about and low and behold Cadel could have enough time gained to win. Sprinters will not beat him significantly in the sprints. They may get the stage win but no time. Who won before Davis this year? How many stages did the 2008 winner get and how many were in a breakaway group and not a bunch sprint. Selective memory or is it that I know more about that borefest in Adelaide than you do. The stupid setup of the race is the primary reason why Cadel will not race it...it is mostly flat, horrendously hot and boring. I've been repeating this tune the entire thread. Cadel seems to not care in the slightest for the event. Hence he won't try and win if he showed...but he could if the wanted.

Umm.......I'm not quite sure where to start to respond to this. I'm not going to defend the TDU or Adelaide for that matter as they both are a product of location. The former its location on the world cycling calender and the latter its location at the bottom of the world.

Moving on, I'm afraid Berty is right that your knowledge of cycling, or lack of it is showing through here. André Greipel won the 08 event and claimed 4 out of six stages as well as the TDU classic event at Glenelg most of which were in bunch gallops, which is hardly surprising given that he was one of the best pure sprinters of that year. When he won these stages he was awarded time bonuses (I'm sure that you can look these up on Wiki or something like that) and that is how he won the race overall. Not by opening up time gaps as you so rudely suggested. As sprinters teams control the race it is very unlikely that Cuddles would be able to attack and stay away from the 5 or more sprinters teams chasing him down.

Actually ....... fark it, why am I bothering to respond to your rude ignorance?
 
Jun 18, 2009
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auscyclefan94 said:
If your referring to Wilunga Hill, well nobody really raves about it as it's only 3km at 7%. Not overly hard compared to some Victorian climbs e.g. Mt Buller which it's last 6km are at 12% and it's at 1800m above sea level. That's what you'd rave about.

I don't think Buller is that steep:

Mt-Buller_evn.jpg

credit - cycle2max.com

Baw Baw is about 6km at 13%, but that only lasts for 6km. Still, I think Baw Baw makes it to HC, whereas Buller is still only a Cat 1.

They are both very tough hills.

I can't see Evans ever winning the TdU; as has been said, the parcours are a joke and there are no hills big enough to shed any ProTour level sprinter except Il Ghepardo.

I think Evans has won the KOM there before, however.
 
Jun 16, 2009
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Runitout said:
I don't think Buller is that steep:

Mt-Buller_evn.jpg

credit - cycle2max.com

Baw Baw is about 6km at 13%, but that only lasts for 6km. Still, I think Baw Baw makes it to HC, whereas Buller is still only a Cat 1.

They are both very tough hills.

I can't see Evans ever winning the TdU; as has been said, the parcours are a joke and there are no hills big enough to shed any ProTour level sprinter except Il Ghepardo.

I think Evans has won the KOM there before, however.

Sorry i meant baw baw
 
May 6, 2009
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I heard somewhere that they did not want to make the TDU too hard at that time of the year. So in other words, a training race that has PT status.
 
Jul 11, 2009
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craig1985 said:
I heard somewhere that they did not want to make the TDU too hard at that time of the year. So in other words, a training race that has PT status.

Yeah thats pretty much how it is. A few years back they wanted to put them up corkscrew road and all the riders protested. Its not very long (about 3kms) but pretty steep.

And Alan Davis was dropped up Willunga hill this year, his team paced him back and he ended up winning the stage.
 
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auscyclefan94 said:
If your referring to Wilunga Hill, well nobody really raves about it as it's only 3km at 7%. Not overly hard compared to some Victorian climbs e.g. Mt Buller which it's last 6km are at 12% and it's at 1800m above sea level. That's what you'd rave about.

Actually I was referring to Wilunga Hill. It's all I hear about. So I must be listening and reading opinions you do not. 3km at 7%. I have a 2.5km climb near where I live...major highway in NSW and it averages a 1 in 8 gradient. It isn't 1800m in altitude but not at sea level either. That's 12.33%. There are others that are MTB trails that make that look pale. Wilunga has been thrown around by a number of people (mostly South Australians) in a naive manner, ie; it is mentioned far too often. It is not a hard climb. Its rather pale. Maybe if it were 13 or 15 km then they'd have a point. At that gradient it is too short to warrant its unofficial status as a focal point for the TDU.

53 x 11 said:
I'm afraid Berty is right that your knowledge of cycling, or lack of it is showing through here. André Greipel won the 08 event and claimed 4 out of six stages as well as the TDU classic event at Glenelg most of which were in bunch gallops, which is hardly surprising given that he was one of the best pure sprinters of that year. When he won these stages he was awarded time bonuses (I'm sure that you can look these up on Wiki or something like that) and that is how he won the race overall. Not by opening up time gaps as you so rudely suggested. As sprinters teams control the race it is very unlikely that Cuddles would be able to attack and stay away from the 5 or more sprinters teams chasing him down.

Actually ....... fark it, why am I bothering to respond to your rude ignorance?

You know why you responded. Do I need to answer that for you? No.

I proposed nothing more than a hypothetical. Heard of those? I am well aware of the time bonuses and manner Greipel won. Watch the sprints at the TdF. Cadel is often in the first 20, often the top 10. He's had more points some years in the green jersey comp than established sprinters. So has Valverde for that matter. Hypothetically if he were to race for the win, who would see it coming? Most people here wouldn't given the comments. Does his team suffer from a weak sprint? No. Are they a strong classic outfit? Yes in theory. Silence have a very good team capable of bluffing the entire event and coming off with a shock win. Have they won stages before? Did Gilbert not win a somewhat hilly stage?

My point is valid, it is achievable if someone with the calibre of Cadel tries. I have already stated he won't race. I don't mind if he proves me wrong. Greipel was not who I was specifically referring to. I was generalising and using contrast to highlight that not all years are won by group sprints. Yes they are a regular occurrence but a strong rider, like Cadel who can sprint decently has a solid chance. If Cuddles attacks on the right part, at the right time, he would gain enough time to win...all he needs is ten seconds...all you need to win the TDU and solid sprints to negate time gains. Heck if LLS can win then Cadel can. Where was it that Elmiger took the leaders jersey? What was the stage profile? Heck I don't watch the damn event and even I know that breakaways succeed. Why do sprinters win? Because the 'real' (and you know who because you watch cycling) competition don't take the event seriously, let alone turn up.

Rudely suggested...haha, hypothetical, but it was not meant to offend. Must be my tone...sorry about that. Do even know what hot weather is (I don't know where everyone lives)? Aussies know hot. Pick the right stage with the right weather (super hot) and they won't chase. Especially with four guys pulling for just the one. Remember the Giro this year...stage 16, everyone was rooted. That's just one way a non sprinter wins. Adelaide had two consecutive weeks last year where the average temperature (air not ground) was over 40 degrees celsius. That's over 105 fahrenheit for the Americans. It will probably happen again this year as the weather has been almost identical in winter and spring.

In reality all I hypothetically detailed will never happen. Davis will in all likely hood, win next year for Astana.

Here is some free knowledge about Australia. Only the tragic cycling fans give a stuff about the TDU. The general public don't care, except for some South Australians. Australia's tennis sportstars are not the greatest anymore, however more people will turn up or take a fleeting interest in the Australian Open and minor tournaments than the TDU headline act. I'd argue golf will get more interest in summer. Move it to a state that actually has climbs...that will get the viewers and public interested. NSW has tons where I live. Tasmania and Victoria do as well. The TDU profile is boring, but to its credit at least the guys who don't get the spotlight like the Cavendish's and co. can have their time in the sun. Ask the average aussie where the TDU is held and when it is held. They don't know or care.

Perhaps it is prudent for me to ask why I'm commenting in a thread about I an event and a particular riders participation that holds no altruistic merit or interest to me. Oh that's right...it would be good for Australian cycling...or is that line we're meant to swallow and regurge?
 
Jun 16, 2009
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Galic Ho said:
...At that gradient it is too short to warrant its unofficial status as a focal point for the TDU....

It's not the gradient, it's the fact that it comes within 10kms of the finish line of the penultimate stage of a PT race that makes Willunga Hill a much more significant piece of road than your local poorly designed highway. Yes it's not an Alpine Col, but it is enough to dislodge a few contenders, and make the final sprint in Willunga be decided by a small bunch rather than by the entire peleton.

Your entire, "Cadel could win a sprint if he tried" argument is farcical, Cadel has won ONE one day race in his professional road career, and that was in solo move on a very hilly course. No one would dispute that he's a great time triallist and one of the worlds' best climbers, but suggesting Cadel could win the TdU is like suggesting Robbie McEwan could win the Tour of Romandie.

For the record I'm a Cadel fanboy and would love to see him race down here as much as anyone, but I can understand that someone who finished his season in October and needs to peak from April through to September may choose not to race here in January.

Galic Ho said:
Heck I don't watch the damn event and even I know that breakaways succeed.

Obviously you didn't "not watch" the race very closely for the last two years. I have watched the TdU for most of it's history and I will tell you as someone who does watch it that it's a very different race now than it was before 2008. The sheer number of UCI points attached to the race gives the sprinters and their teams the motivation to keep escapes in check, there's been no sign of the bunch sitting up and riding "piano" form the twenty km mark. There is a chance a small group might stay away on the Willunga stage, or that some splits happen during the Stirling circuits this year, but a hilly classics rider will benefit, not a grand tour rider. Finishing in the top twenty and winning a sprint are very different things.

Galic Ho said:
Adelaide had two consecutive weeks last year where the average temperature (air not ground) was over 40 degrees celsius. That's over 105 fahrenheit for the Americans. It will probably happen again this year as the weather has been almost identical in winter and spring.

...and by the way, calling the wettest winter in recent record almost identical to one of the driest winters in history just shows that your pulling random nonsense out of your ****.

Here's some general knowledge about New South Wales, it's a huge state with the countries biggest population, but has no races of any merit as the state government is antagonistic towards cycling in general and most of the population are boguns who drink crappy beer. Grafton-Inverell is your state's most prestigious cycling event, can you name the team of most recent winner?

The TdU has done as much if not more for the status of road cycling in Australia than any race except the Herald Sun Tour. 7000+ people road the Challenge Tour this year, mostly from interstate and overseas. Police estimates are that 760500 watched at least one stage of the race in person.

At his stage I don't care if Cadel comes or doesn't come here in January, just as long as you stay in NSW watching tennis I'll be happy.
 
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badboyberty said:
It's not the gradient, it's the fact that it comes within 10kms of the finish line of the penultimate stage of a PT race that makes Willunga Hill a much more significant piece of road than your local poorly designed highway. Yes it's not an Alpine Col, but it is enough to dislodge a few contenders, and make the final sprint in Willunga be decided by a small bunch rather than by the entire peleton.

As I said and counter to what craig1985 said, there are people out there (mostly South Australians whom you've outed yourself as) raving about an undope hill at the end of a stage a tad over 100km's. I get that its supposed to limit the riders at the finish but its only an 800 metre section that is difficult. "Poorly designed highway." Oldest highway in Australia. Oldest state in Australia. I know the RTA and council workers suck at the best of times but the engineers can only do soo much with the Blue Mountains. Go back to primary school and tell us how long it took the explorers to traverse the bushland. My point stands. The TDU is often talked about as having some decent climbs...depends on your definition.

Your entire, "Cadel could win a sprint if he tried" argument is farcical, Cadel has won ONE one day race in his professional road career, and that was in solo move on a very hilly course. No one would dispute that he's a great time triallist and one of the worlds' best climbers, but suggesting Cadel could win the TdU is like suggesting Robbie McEwan could win the Tour of Romandie.

I never said Cadel would win a sprint. He isn't Valverde. But I did suggest he could mitigate any damage done by placing high. He certainly has the teammates who could win and pul backl the time bonuses he would loose to other riders. Again, this was all written in my previous post. Is the TDU a one day race? Do most of riders take the event seriously? Heck Robbie himself is never in his best form in January. Hypothetical genius. The point was that if Cadel wanted he stands a very strong chance of winning.

For the record I'm a Cadel fanboy and would love to see him race down here as much as anyone, but I can understand that someone who finished his season in October and needs to peak from April through to September may choose not to race here in January.

No. Say it isn't so. The name gave you away. Seriously. Typical drivel from aussies who furiously support Cuddles. But the peaking...thats crap and if you don't know it then I think you need to look at your own fitness and redefine what you are capable of. Footballers can hold strong form all season. Peaking, lows or troughs and then highs is a matter of degrees. Absolute best, thats a different story but top GC guys are in good form for most of the year. Focus, the mental aspect, thats more or less what they talk about. Or a medical program. Look at my first paragraph. In cycling speak, how many cyclists are in top form in January?

...and by the way, calling the wettest winter in recent record almost identical to one of the driest winters in history just shows that your pulling random nonsense out of your ****.

Why is it then that we always hear about heatwaves in Adelaide? How many years has that been happening. I'm glad your faith in the Bureau of Meteorology is accurate. Do they keep statistics on all the inaccuraies they make on a daily basis for weather forecast? Wow, Adelaide got rain this year. Is that a first? Good for you, because you didn't get more than NSW and Victoria normally get. Thats it...Adelaide got more than it normally does. Again, it will be a very hot summer. Why? Because it has only been hot one week this spring, like last year. Rain...actually is more important, and it will probably delay the real heat by a week or two. That is nationally as well, which is what I was referring to in the post. Adelaide will get the same more or less with a few variances. So more bushfires and more sun across Australia! Last year every second person was complaining about the heat at the end of January and beginning of February. It will be the same this year, but I'm thinking February will be sweltering. Heck the news stations will play the stats game and talk about the "hottest summer on record." It is always about the stats...they sell the stories and fill in the blank spots for the weather girls.

Here's some general knowledge about New South Wales, it's a huge state with the countries biggest population, but has no races of any merit as the state government is antagonistic towards cycling in general and most of the population are boguns who drink crappy beer. Grafton-Inverell is your state's most prestigious cycling event, can you name the team of most recent winner?

Bogan not bogun. It is impolite to mispell the word. After all, bogans are people. I don't hear you complaining about the Bogans at Sandown? Or are they exempt? Bogans are common across Australia and not restricted to any specific zone. As for the beer comment. Well QLD has XXXX, VIC has Victoria Bitter and NSW has Tooheys Blue. If you drink that rubbish thats your problem. What does SA have? Are you going to claim Coopers because of a brewery's location? Tasmania has its own beer by association of brand and what the population drink. SA has wine. Go figure. But perhaps that explains your bogan statement...too many yuppies who think they're higher in the social labber than they really are, trying to be something they are not?

As for Inverell. Boring. Next town please. Oh wait its called Moree and looks identical. Next town please. The same, again. Maybe I hear an echo, but I'll repeat it for you, only the tragics care.

The TdU has done as much if not more for the status of road cycling in Australia than any race except the Herald Sun Tour. 7000+ people road the Challenge Tour this year, mostly from interstate and overseas. Police estimates are that 760500 watched at least one stage of the race in person.

Who cares about the numbers? Do you work for the TDU or the government? You'd fit right in. The population of Bathurst doubles during the first week of October. Does that make the event relevent in terms of quality? No. Most locals don't care at all. Most people in Australia hate cyclists or do not understand the culture. The TDU has done nothing to combat that. Now they are championing the participation a rider who divides public opinion and when asked to make a comment regarding car/cycling relations puts his big foot in it. If you want a lovely piece of writing to match your mindest here you go. Just don't tap Cuddles arm if he turns up in Adelaide, you might get squealed at and slapped like poor Mike: http://www.sbs.com.au/cyclingcentral/blog-article/113927/Cadel-down-under-br
The crass of the second paragraph is comedy gold. Priceless!

As for the status of Australian road cycling being aided by the TDU. A little bit, but not that much. It is the riders who make the event. Fact. This isn't a century old race, but a decade old race. Get back to us in 20 years or when a TdF, Giro or Vuelta winner comes back and rides in SA. You did a fine job selling the race and the virtues of your home state. SA Labor could use your skills come next election, give them a call. The truth is Melbourne over a period of two decades took all sporting events that made Adelaide great. Apart from two sub-par AFL teams, what has Adelaide got? Oh, we'll go for the lost cause in aussie sports...cycling, because no one else wanted it. Nice bragging point. You managed to rehash a textbook marketing sell point. You forgot the headline to get the interest? Or is it LA? Yeah that'll keep the event going, even better, make the race dynamic. I think not.

At his stage I don't care if Cadel comes or doesn't come here in January, just as long as you stay in NSW watching tennis I'll be happy.

At least the tennis players try (back to the whole peaking arguement). Oh and there is the eye candy too. Again, Melbourne has far more action in January than Adelaide will ever have...unless the world ends in SA in the month of Janaury. I'd turn up for that.
 
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Galic Ho said:
As I said and counter to what craig1985 said, there are people out there (mostly South Australians whom you've outed yourself as) raving about an undope hill at the end of a stage a tad over 100km's. I get that its supposed to limit the riders at the finish but its only an 800 metre section that is difficult. "Poorly designed highway." Oldest highway in Australia. Oldest state in Australia. I know the RTA and council workers suck at the best of times but the engineers can only do soo much with the Blue Mountains. Go back to primary school and tell us how long it took the explorers to traverse the bushland. My point stands. The TDU is often talked about as having some decent climbs...depends on your definition.



I never said Cadel would win a sprint. He isn't Valverde. But I did suggest he could mitigate any damage done by placing high. He certainly has the teammates who could win and pul backl the time bonuses he would loose to other riders. Again, this was all written in my previous post. Is the TDU a one day race? Do most of riders take the event seriously? Heck Robbie himself is never in his best form in January. Hypothetical genius. The point was that if Cadel wanted he stands a very strong chance of winning.



No. Say it isn't so. The name gave you away. Seriously. Typical drivel from aussies who furiously support Cuddles. But the peaking...thats crap and if you don't know it then I think you need to look at your own fitness and redefine what you are capable of. Footballers can hold strong form all season. Peaking, lows or troughs and then highs is a matter of degrees. Absolute best, thats a different story but top GC guys are in good form for most of the year. Focus, the mental aspect, thats more or less what they talk about. Or a medical program. Look at my first paragraph. In cycling speak, how many cyclists are in top form in January?



Why is it then that we always hear about heatwaves in Adelaide? How many years has that been happening. I'm glad your faith in the Bureau of Meteorology is accurate. Do they keep statistics on all the inaccuraies they make on a daily basis for weather forecast? Wow, Adelaide got rain this year. Is that a first? Good for you, because you didn't get more than NSW and Victoria normally get. Thats it...Adelaide got more than it normally does. Again, it will be a very hot summer. Why? Because it has only been hot one week this spring, like last year. Rain...actually is more important, and it will probably delay the real heat by a week or two. That is nationally as well, which is what I was referring to in the post. Adelaide will get the same more or less with a few variances. So more bushfires and more sun across Australia! Last year every second person was complaining about the heat at the end of January and beginning of February. It will be the same this year, but I'm thinking February will be sweltering. Heck the news stations will play the stats game and talk about the "hottest summer on record." It is always about the stats...they sell the stories and fill in the blank spots for the weather girls.



Bogan not bogun. It is impolite to mispell the word. After all, bogans are people. I don't hear you complaining about the Bogans at Sandown? Or are they exempt? Bogans are common across Australia and not restricted to any specific zone. As for the beer comment. Well QLD has XXXX, VIC has Victoria Bitter and NSW has Tooheys Blue. If you drink that rubbish thats your problem. What does SA have? Are you going to claim Coopers because of a brewery's location? Tasmania has its own beer by association of brand and what the population drink. SA has wine. Go figure. But perhaps that explains your bogan statement...too many yuppies who think they're higher in the social labber than they really are, trying to be something they are not?

As for Inverell. Boring. Next town please. Oh wait its called Moree and looks identical. Next town please. The same, again. Maybe I hear an echo, but I'll repeat it for you, only the tragics care.



Who cares about the numbers? Do you work for the TDU or the government? You'd fit right in. The population of Bathurst doubles during the first week of October. Does that make the event relevent in terms of quality? No. Most locals don't care at all. Most people in Australia hate cyclists or do not understand the culture. The TDU has done nothing to combat that. Now they are championing the participation a rider who divides public opinion and when asked to make a comment regarding car/cycling relations puts his big foot in it. If you want a lovely piece of writing to match your mindest here you go. Just don't tap Cuddles arm if he turns up in Adelaide, you might get squealed at and slapped like poor Mike: http://www.sbs.com.au/cyclingcentral/blog-article/113927/Cadel-down-under-br
The crass of the second paragraph is comedy gold. Priceless!

As for the status of Australian road cycling being aided by the TDU. A little bit, but not that much. It is the riders who make the event. Fact. This isn't a century old race, but a decade old race. Get back to us in 20 years or when a TdF, Giro or Vuelta winner comes back and rides in SA. You did a fine job selling the race and the virtues of your home state. SA Labor could use your skills come next election, give them a call. The truth is Melbourne over a period of two decades took all sporting events that made Adelaide great. Apart from two sub-par AFL teams, what has Adelaide got? Oh, we'll go for the lost cause in aussie sports...cycling, because no one else wanted it. Nice bragging point. You managed to rehash a textbook marketing sell point. You forgot the headline to get the interest? Or is it LA? Yeah that'll keep the event going, even better, make the race dynamic. I think not.



At least the tennis players try (back to the whole peaking arguement). Oh and there is the eye candy too. Again, Melbourne has far more action in January than Adelaide will ever have...unless the world ends in SA in the month of Janaury. I'd turn up for that.

People only talk about Wilunga hill because it's the hardest climb in the TDU (sadly), we don't rave about it

It's a sprinters race where a sprinter can actually win in gc and not be wiped away on a climb. At the start of the year, LA and Jesus hernandez said they road up Wilunga Hill at 40km per hour. If they are going at that speed then that says to me that sprinters would be able to stay in contact with the main group as it isn't overly hard and as their is no over climbs, only a sprinter can win. Tutur needs to put in a tt or a proper mountain top finish to make it more exciting.

Footballers are not cyclists. You can't have top form all year round. You need to have the troughs so you can have bigger peaks. You say TDU only helps Aus cycling a little bit, well that's ********, the crowds were enormous which means that the LA factor + the succsess of aussie cyclists who were competing in the TDU means that TDU is helping Aus cyclists.

You say that we will all be heralding CE who you think is a guy that divides people, well it's really the small minority who don't like him or appreciate his acheivements and what he has done for Aus cycling.

I only agree with you on the part about Melbourne. Best state in Aus!

The bottom line is, TDU is a sprinters race and the TDU does a lot for Australian cycling.
 
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Galic Ho said:
I never said Cadel would win a sprint. He isn't Valverde. But I did suggest he could mitigate any damage done by placing high.

How does finishing midpack affect the outcome of a race decided by time-bonuses?

Galic Ho said:
No. Say it isn't so. The name gave you away.

umm, my name is Bert and I like the movie "Bad Boy Bubby", what has that got to do with anything?

Galic Ho said:
Why is it then that we always hear about heatwaves in Adelaide? .....

You're the one who said the weather was the same here this year as last year. I just pointed out that that was BS.

Galic Ho said:
As for Inverell. Boring. Next town please. Oh wait its called Moree and looks identical. Next town please. The same, again. Maybe I hear an echo, but I'll repeat it for you, only the tragics care.

This is the forums for CylingNews.com, only the tragics come here... for the record, I mentioned Grafton-Inverell as it is the best your state can pull off, and despite the fact that it features some decent hills, the race is still being won by privateers. It's an example of why it takes a lot more than topography to make a bike race.


Galic Ho said:
Who cares about the numbers?

Obviously you do, as you were the one who tried to compare spectator numbers at the TdU to those at the tennis.
 
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Galic Ho said:
...They may get the stage win but no time. Who won before Davis this year? How many stages did the 2008 winner get and how many were in a breakaway group and not a bunch sprint. Selective memory or is it that I know more about that borefest in Adelaide than you do. ...

Galic Ho said:
...
I proposed nothing more than a hypothetical. Heard of those? I am well aware of the time bonuses and manner Greipel won. ...

Can you come to my house for a sleep over! I'll invite my friend Sprocket. We can take off our clothes and wrap ourselves up in a nice warm Snuggie while we brush each others hair and tell each other amazing fairy stories. It'll be so nice.
 
FSN showed an interview with Evans.

Interesting bits:

-Bit his lip re: team... Basically said that their TTT was unacceptable but said no more.
-Was appreciative of the support for cycling in Australia (rather than demanding support).
-Thinks he's a better chance of winning his first TdF than Lance is an 8th.
-Absolute focus on TdF (so he's not going all out for a Giro or Vuelta).
-TdU and 2010 WC are both in Australia at opposite ends of the season, basically said it was difficult for him to do both and therefore his chances of doing the TdU aren't that great.
 
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auscyclefan94 said:
People only talk about Wilunga hill because it's the hardest climb in the TDU (sadly), we don't rave about it

It's a sprinters race where a sprinter can actually win in gc and not be wiped away on a climb. At the start of the year, LA and Jesus hernandez said they road up Wilunga Hill at 40km per hour. If they are going at that speed then that says to me that sprinters would be able to stay in contact with the main group as it isn't overly hard and as their is no over climbs, only a sprinter can win. Tutur needs to put in a tt or a proper mountain top finish to make it more exciting.

That would be nice. A proper ITT. When Wilunga is mentioned frequently (which it is) and is the only hill mentioned, that is akin to raving. You may disagree, which is fine by me. As for Berty, well, you didn't answer all my points, but I don't expect you too. I think you're mostly pee'd off because you state Wilunga as your location and I pointed out that is nothing special.

Footballers are not cyclists. You can't have top form all year round. You need to have the troughs so you can have bigger peaks. You say TDU only helps Aus cycling a little bit, well that's ********, the crowds were enormous which means that the LA factor + the succsess of aussie cyclists who were competing in the TDU means that TDU is helping Aus cyclists.

No, absolute peaking doesn't happen soo often. But read my point. General fitness is very high. How else did Cav get soo many wins over the entire season? The theory is he cannot peak all season, right? There are periods of the year when cyclists take it easier but the top guys are always almost race ready (sure maybe not Tour/Vuelta/Giro winner ready) but capable of being competitive. Most of the excuses (thats what they are) are explained by basic psychology. My point about the attraction and numbers (you opened the door Berty so I used it) are that getting cycling fans to turn up to an event is not really an achievement. Getting non-cycling fans to embrace the sport is something to rave about. Yes the LA effect will do this, but in two years he will be gone. Then its back to the tragics and diehard fans that a sport is built upon, the grassroots level. You want the sport to grow in Australia. Change the race, put in a ITT, or some real hills, get Cadel to race (he won't unless you throw money at him for mentioned already covered by numerous posters) and some other big names. LA turning up for a Saturday arvo ride is not the answer.

To Berty, about the Valverde bit and finishing mid pack, the point was for you to infer that if you can get in the top 10, you can win if you really try or get a placing. Wiggo did it two weeks back in the herald tour after pulling all week for his teammate. Cadel potentially could, especially if the other riders aren't in "peak form." Also, I mentioned his team...if they win/place in the sprints and mitigate time, hey presto, good for the bluff.

You say that we will all be heralding CE who you think is a guy that divides people, well it's really the small minority who don't like him or appreciate his acheivements and what he has done for Aus cycling.

I only agree with you on the part about Melbourne. Best state in Aus!

The bottom line is, TDU is a sprinters race and the TDU does a lot for Australian cycling.

Yes, the TDU helps Australian cycling, but mostly only for those in cycling circles and the Adelaide economy. Most of the economic benefit is a blip on the real SA gov budget. Cadel divides people. You of all people should be aware of this given the numerous times you've defended him on this forum. He isnt' the most likable rider, which is important but not essential, but the telling sign is the lack of people outside of the cycling fans who give a stuff. He ain't LA and the fact there are people who dislike him or partially rebuke his behaviour at times backs up what I said. I personally like the way he's ridden this year. It was positive and a good direction for next year. Hopefully he can win a GT.

To 53x11, use a spreadsheet next time instead of paintshop. Then the 20 minutes, won't have been wasted. You'll have learnt to use a productive piece of software and won't have to resort to posting diagrams resembling those drawn by autistic children.

Wonderlance, nice joke. Sorry but the answer is a resounding NO.
 

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