Can anyone help with my question?

[nelsonsmen71]

Hello, I would like to know, if Eddie Merckx is the only rider in history to have won the Tour Suisse and Tour France in the same year, why is Pinot riding to win the Tour Suisse???? I am a massive fan of his, my favourite rider to be honest and I really had hopes for him this year as Contador cannot win Giro and TDF, Nibali last year won a weak TDF and with Quintana and Froome looking good, this question perplexes me. Surely, firstly the Tour de Suisee wil lstill be in Pinots legs and secondly history is a remarkable marker and the fact only Mercx has done it says its not impossible but highly unlikely. Can anyone shine light on this?????

 

[Miburo]

Most tour favorites ride dauphine.

Pinot won't win suisse and he definitely won't win the tour.

And wasn't pinot in that weak tdf? LMAO

 

[nelsonsmen71]

Re:

Yes we both know Pinot was in the weak TDF last year. All the best dont go in the Criterium du dauphine, most of the best. Despite your patronizing nature, and the fact you clearly disagree with me over the strength of lasts year TDF, I will presume that you are being hypocritical about Pinot. As, if lasts years TDF was not weak ( in your eyes ) then coming third means he is a very good rider, therefore maybe he will become only the 2nd man in history to win both, although you dont think he can hang on to win Tour Suisse!

 

[Cance > TheRest]

Hello, I would like to know, if Eddie Merckx is the only rider in history to have won the Tour Suisse and Tour France in the same year, why is Pinot riding to win the Tour Suisse???? I am a massive fan of his, my favourite rider to be honest and I really had hopes for him this year as Contador cannot win Giro and TDF, Nibali last year won a weak TDF and with Quintana and Froome looking good, this question perplexes me. Surely, firstly the Tour de Suisee wil lstill be in Pinots legs and secondly history is a remarkable marker and the fact only Mercx has done it says its not impossible but highly unlikely. Can anyone shine light on this?????

probably to get a confidence boost, that he wouldn't have got in Dauphine, before the Tour. Also, Pinots chances of winning the Tour are almost non-existant, so he might aswell stack up the victories before the Tour (best case scenario, Pinot is 5th in the Tour)

 

[nelsonsmen71]

Thanks for a sounder answer. Yeah ok that makes sense. The fact you think 5th is Pinot best in TDF this year means you would concur with me last years TDF was weaker than usual????? Who would be your 4 above him then ( if all stay fit during race ) Froome, Contador, Quintana I can get but Nibali???? Surely not, one flash wonder for me in a weakened tour. Or you have someone else in mind???? Cheers for answering me too btw

 

[King Boonen]

Thanks for a sounder answer. Yeah ok that makes sense. The fact you think 5th is Pinot best in TDF this year means you would concur with me last years TDF was weaker than usual????? Who would be your 4 above him then ( if all stay fit during race ) Froome, Contador, Quintana I can get but Nibali???? Surely not, one flash wonder for me in a weakened tour. Or you have someone else in mind???? Cheers for answering me too btw

Nibali a one flash wonder? I'm sorry but did you start watching cycling last year? This isn't meant to be patronising, but with a palmares like Nibali this comment is as bad as the one from Miburo you took great offence to.


As to Pinot, he may have just assessed the route and preferred the Suisse for this part of his training. He's being doing a lot of training in areas around where the tour is this year (I follow him on Strava so I think I'm right but haven't fully checked his rides against the route).

He's unlikely to win, very unlikely, but maybe he doesn't want to show Froome et. al. what he's capable of just yet We can only hope.

 

[Cance > TheRest]

Thanks for a sounder answer. Yeah ok that makes sense. The fact you think 5th is Pinot best in TDF this year means you would concur with me last years TDF was weaker than usual????? Who would be your 4 above him then ( if all stay fit during race ) Froome, Contador, Quintana I can get but Nibali???? Surely not, one flash wonder for me in a weakened tour. Or you have someone else in mind???? Cheers for answering me too btw

if you watched Nibali's 2014 season in detail, you'd know he was not making results even before the Tour. It's the same pattern this year. And yes, I believe Pinot have improved enough to finish 5th behind "the big 4". Van Garderen, Bardet, Valverde, Rodriguez, Talansky etc have an equal chance to Pinot, IMO, so finishing in the top 5 won't be easy for Pinot.

 

[Netserk]

No

 

[Eagle]

Armstrong did it in 2001

 

[nelsonsmen71]

Cheers Cance and King Boonen. KB - Yes, I suppose it did come across wrong the way I spoke of Nibali as a 1 hit wonder, I do stand by it in a kinda way, what I should of written was he will never win a TDF again and I do not believe he will ever podium the TDF again. I appreciate his qualities and his successes around the world. Your point reg Pinot in Suisse is interesting and also the fact he may not want to show his hand to the rivals so close to the TDF. I am getting the picture he cant win the TDF this year but I still believe he has it in him within 3/4 years. Since I started watching the TDF some 25 years ago these last few years have been fantastic for competition and although you guys think a win and podium is out of his grasp this year, im not so convinced, well not about the podium anyway, your perhaps making me see the light about winning the TDF this year. Thanks for your input guys.

 

[Miburo]

Re: Re:

Yes we both know Pinot was in the weak TDF last year. All the best dont go in the Criterium du dauphine, most of the best. Despite your patronizing nature, and the fact you clearly disagree with me over the strength of lasts year TDF, I will presume that you are being hypocritical about Pinot. As, if lasts years TDF was not weak ( in your eyes ) then coming third means he is a very good rider, therefore maybe he will become only the 2nd man in history to win both, although you dont think he can hang on to win Tour Suisse!

I'm sorry but i can't follow.

You said last year tdf field was weak which is true. Then you continue to use that as an argument to downgrade nibali and say pinot might have a shot while he was one of the guys who got completely crushed by nibali.

Hence the LMAO.

 

[Midrider]

Hello, I would like to know, if Eddie Merckx is the only rider in history to have won the Tour Suisse and Tour France in the same year, why is Pinot riding to win the Tour Suisse???? I am a massive fan of his, my favourite rider to be honest and I really had hopes for him this year as Contador cannot win Giro and TDF, Nibali last year won a weak TDF and with Quintana and Froome looking good, this question perplexes me. Surely, firstly the Tour de Suisee wil lstill be in Pinots legs and secondly history is a remarkable marker and the fact only Mercx has done it says its not impossible but highly unlikely. Can anyone shine light on this?????

Not sure if troll, but i'll bite:
Your logic is very flawed. Just because not many riders do good in the TDF after riding Suisse, does not mean the chance to win the TDF is smaller when having raced Suisse than when having raced Dauphiné.
First, Suisse could have an overall lesser field each year when compared to the Dauphiné. i.e. the amount of top riders in the Dauphiné is larger which increases the likelihood a rider from this pool will do good in the TdF.
Second, past results say absolutely nothing about future performance unless the two are directly correlated in some way. Just because the early Tours were dominated by Belgians and Frenchmen doesn't mean the likelihood of these nationalities winning the TdF this year is any higher. The same reasoning applies.
Saying Pinot should forget about winning the Suisse GC because he'll do better in the tour if history is anything to go by, is just plain silly.
That said, I don't think Pinot will take the GC on sunday.

 

[vedrafjord]

Armstrong did Suisse in 2001 and won (no clinico, bro) the TdF that year. The stated reason was if Pinot did the Dauphiné he'd have a lot more media pressure to deal with as the great French hope in a race in the French Alps. Also I believe I read he said that having a warmup race a week closer suits him in terms of peaking for week 3, but I can't remember where I saw that.

 

[HelloDolly]

Re: Re:

Yes we both know Pinot was in the weak TDF last year. All the best dont go in the Criterium du dauphine, most of the best. Despite your patronizing nature, and the fact you clearly disagree with me over the strength of lasts year TDF, I will presume that you are being hypocritical about Pinot. As, if lasts years TDF was not weak ( in your eyes ) then coming third means he is a very good rider, therefore maybe he will become only the 2nd man in history to win both, although you dont think he can hang on to win Tour Suisse!

Some people on here are so rude and know it all

I think Pinot is a great rider ....but his TT is not the best as far as I recall

He could certainly be right up there at the Tour ...and a good prospect for future Tour wins

 

[nelsonsmen71]

Re: Re:

I'm sorry but i can't follow.

You said last year tdf field was weak which is true. Then you continue to use that as an argument to downgrade nibali and say pinot might have a shot while he was one of the guys who got completely crushed by nibali.

Hence the LMAO.[/quote]

Pinot is only 24 years old Nibali is 30, Pinot has still far more room to improve than Nibali, thought someone as clever as you could understand that so i didnt mention it, clearly i should have, have fun!

 

[nelsonsmen71]

That makes no sense to me or the angle to my line of thought?

Not sure if troll, but i'll bite:
Your logic is very flawed. Just because not many riders do good in the TDF after riding Suisse, does not mean the chance to win the TDF is smaller when having raced Suisse than when having raced Dauphiné.
First, Suisse could have an overall lesser field each year when compared to the Dauphiné. i.e. the amount of top riders in the Dauphiné is larger which increases the likelihood a rider from this pool will do good in the TdF.
Second, past results say absolutely nothing about future performance unless the two are directly correlated in some way. Just because the early Tours were dominated by Belgians and Frenchmen doesn't mean the likelihood of these nationalities winning the TdF this year is any higher. The same reasoning applies.
Saying Pinot should forget about winning the Suisse GC because he'll do better in the tour if history is anything to go by, is just plain silly.
That said, I don't think Pinot will take the GC on sunday.[/quote]

 

[nelsonsmen71]

Re: Re:

Thank you Holly, a true lady amongst some angry men you are. I think PInot has come along way in his young 24 years and can really see him surprising this year. Hopefully this thread will still be up come July 26th and me and you can say well Pinot has podium'd again, how do you like them apples critics?!!!!

 

[ILovecycling]

Re: Re:

Thank you Holly, a true lady amongst some angry men you are. I think PInot has come along way in his young 24 years and can really see him surprising this year. Hopefully this thread will still be up come July 26th and me and you can say well Pinot has podium'd again, how do you like them apples critics?!!!!

Im a big Pinot fan also (after AC and Nairo) but his only chance to podium it is that at least 2 of the 4 big favourite will crash out or will have worse form than we expect.OTOH its not that unlikely, certainly its a good parcouse for him beside TTT.
He will probably lose a shitload of time in that TTT to the other top riders (astana,saxo,movi,sky,bmc,katusha)

 

[Hakkapelit]

Riding in Suisse rather than France is a lot less pressure from french media and stuff than it would be in Dauphine.

 

[nelsonsmen71]

Re:

Riding in Suisse rather than France is a lot less pressure from french media and stuff than it would be in Dauphine.

Yes this is a very good point, made by others too. I didnt realise the TTT was back this year so yes its gonna be tough. I can see that winning this year is almost an impossible task but thats the beauty of sport and especially so with the TDF over the last few years. I truly think he will podium as I believe Nibali is weaker than people think and I think one of the top 3 favs in Froome,Contador and Quintana will drop away considerably when in the latter stages they realise the Tour has gone for them. It wouldnt surprise me its Contador either, as I believe the Giro is too hard to win it and the TDF in same year. So for me barring accidents the TDF this year is Froome or Quintana with Pinot an outside bet but good for 3rd. Watch the experts criticise that call , all we can do is watch this space!

 

[Arredondo]

Re: Re:

Riding in Suisse rather than France is a lot less pressure from french media and stuff than it would be in Dauphine.

Yes this is a very good point, made by others too. I didnt realise the TTT was back this year so yes its gonna be tough. I can see that winning this year is almost an impossible task but thats the beauty of sport and especially so with the TDF over the last few years. I truly think he will podium as I believe Nibali is weaker than people think and I think one of the top 3 favs in Froome,Contador and Quintana will drop away considerably when in the latter stages they realise the Tour has gone for them. It wouldnt surprise me its Contador either, as I believe the Giro is too hard to win it and the TDF in same year. So for me barring accidents the TDF this year is Froome or Quintana with Pinot an outside bet but good for 3rd. Watch the experts criticise that call , all we can do is watch this space!

You have the big four. Then comes Purito, then at a really short distance Pinot.

Don't forget it is only Suisse, in a weak field.

 

[Jspear]

Re: Re:

Thank you Holly, a true lady amongst some angry men you are. I think PInot has come along way in his young 24 years and can really see him surprising this year. Hopefully this thread will still be up come July 26th and me and you can say well Pinot has podium'd again, how do you like them apples critics?!!!!

Are you sure you got the genders of everyone responding to you right?
Pinot is an excellent rider but he will have his hands full trying to podium. You already agreed that AC, Froome, and Quintana are stronger; the only one your missing is Nibali. What exactly makes you think he'll not be as strong as last year? Unfortunately you can't look at his results from this year and determine that he will do good or bad. But after last years build up, we can assume he knows what he is doing and will be in very good form come July. I personally don't think he'll win the Tour this year, but he is still stronger than Pinot and he still has a much greater chance of podiuming.

 

[IndianCyclist]

The TDS has only one MTF which is really not good for training. It does not feature TDF routes like the dauphine does for familiarizing with the climbs and routes. It is too close to TDF to arrange for another intensive short mountain camp. Which is many riders including favorites prefer Dauphine and winners statistically come from there. Nothing to say that TDS participants cannot win the TDF.

 

[Taxus4a]

Hello, I would like to know, if Eddie Merckx is the only rider in history to have won the Tour Suisse and Tour France in the same year, why is Pinot riding to win the Tour Suisse???? I am a massive fan of his, my favourite rider to be honest and I really had hopes for him this year as Contador cannot win Giro and TDF, Nibali last year won a weak TDF and with Quintana and Froome looking good, this question perplexes me. Surely, firstly the Tour de Suisee wil lstill be in Pinots legs and secondly history is a remarkable marker and the fact only Mercx has done it says its not impossible but highly unlikely. Can anyone shine light on this?????

I dont think it no possible or you must be Merckx to win Suisse and Tour de France the same year. If it doest happend frecuently doesnt mean a lot.

T d Suisse is an important race and if Pinot finally win will be a good result for him

As well I dont think you cant be at the top in Le Tour to have raced Giro. If it is a question of getting tired, Contador shouldnt have been today in the top ten and just train a little.

 

[jmdirt]

Assuming no sickness or crashes the top five (even 10) should be a dog fight. If he rides well, Pinot can be in the fight. Assuming the big four favorites finish as the top four, there is till a handful of guys who could fight for the next few spots. I think that Thomas or Dumoulin will win TdS, so no, the winner from Suisse will not win the TdF this year.