Cancellara and the cobblestones on stage 3

[raddone]

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/cancellara-looks-forward-to-cobblestones-in-the-summer
That would be great. To see Cancellara win stage 3 in yellow.

 

[rhubroma]

I can understand the promotors wanting to create the spectacle, but I can't help but disapprove of the ASO decision to include this much pave in a stage of the Tour.

Paris-Roubaix is a unique event, which, in my opinion, shouldn't be "included" in a Grand Tour, becuase it presents the not insignificant possibility of falsifying the race. That is what if several, or even just one, of the major contenders were to crash out of the race? The specialization of riding the cobbles also means that some riders will be disadvantaged, not because of their real strenght, but due to the technical aspect of riding the particular course and one's own physical characteristics.

If we're talking about a spring classic in April, then that's what we expect. It is completely another matter when we're dealing with a stage in a three week GC race. The Tour, just as any GT, should be about having the strongest in the group prevail after all the mountains and time trials, without the risk of a "circus" side-show day such as this stage risk falsifying the final outcome.

The Tour is notorious, besides, for having many crashes in the opening week due to a nervous bunch. Why increase this potentiality with stages like this?

 

[scribe]

Crashes will be less of a factor than just flat out losing time to GC riders who are strong on cobbles. Adding some flavor to the opening week..:.which has basically always been a crash highlight reel....is an enhancement.

 

[hrotha]

The northern classics and the pave are as much part of cycling as the climbs. The riders know what to expect since the course of the Tour was revealed long ago, and they had plenty of time to train on cobblestones. If a race favourite loses the race on the pave, it's ultimately not different from losing it in an ITT. It won't falsify the final result at all: it just means the winner must be even more of an all-rounder than in previous years (and only slightly so; it remains to be seen if this stage will decide anything).

I do think it will be a bit dangerous, as unlike in Paris-Roubaix most of the guys in the decisive part of the stage will have little experience with pave.

 

[raddone]

I can understand the promotors wanting to create the spectacle, but I can't help but disapprove of the ASO decision to include this much pave in a stage of the Tour.

Paris-Roubaix is a unique event, which, in my opinion, shouldn't be "included" in a Grand Tour, becuase it presents the not insignificant possibility of falsifying the race. That is what if several, or even just one, of the major contenders were to crash out of the race? The specialization of riding the cobbles also means that some riders will be disadvantaged, not because of their real strenght, but due to the technical aspect of riding the particular course and one's own physical characteristics.

If we're talking about a spring classic in April, then that's what we expect. It is completely another matter when we're dealing with a stage in a three week GC race. The Tour, just as any GT, should be about having the strongest in the group prevail after all the mountains and time trials, without the risk of a "circus" side-show day such as this stage risk falsifying the final outcome.

The Tour is notorious, besides, for having many crashes in the opening week due to a nervous bunch. Why increase this potentiality with stages like this?

You can't compare stage 3 with P-R. From the 7 sectors only the last 3 are used in P-R. And none of them has 5 star difficulty.
Secteur pavé d'Ormeignies (350 m)
Secteur pavé d'Hollain (1 200 m)
Secteur pavé de Rongy (700 m)
Secteur pavé de Sars-et-Rosières (2 400 m)
Secteur pavé de Tilloy-lez-Marchiennes (2 500 m) - 3 stars
Secteur pavé de Wandignies-Hamage (3 700 m) - 4 stars
Secteur pavé d'Haveluy (2 300 m) - 4 stars

But I do agree that things should not be mixed. The two races need their identity. It would be like including the french Alps in the Vuelta.

 

[sonofjive]

Stage 7 of the Giro on the Strade Bianche was the best flat stage of a GT I have ever seen. And at the end it was the strongest riders (Evans, Vinokourov, Cunego, etc) who prevailed, not some fluke (apart from the Liquigas crash, but the final result suggests that their time losses weren't terminal).

I hope the pave will be the same sort of thing, but given how conservatively the GT teams ride the first week of le Tour I'm a little worried it will be a procession just like every other flat stage.

 

[BroDeal]

After screwing the race up last year with an overly long team time trial that eliminated nearly all the contenders early in the race, the organizers decided to risk the same thing happening this year. All it will take is a crash near the front that splits the field with a couple of contenders in the front group. At least this year there are real mountain stages where time lost on the critical stage might be regained--unlike last year.

 

[auscyclefan94]

In 2004, there were only 2 sectors of cobbles and it is ironic that the only crash for a main contender (which was mayo did) not even happen on the cobbles.

This year there will be much more carnage but even ogrady and hushovd in 2004 came off and fell behind on the cobbles and these guys are some of the best cobbled riders in the world.

 

[ergmonkey]

This year there will be much more carnage but even ogrady and hushovd in 2004 came off and fell behind on the cobbles and these guys are some of the best cobbled riders in the world.

Yep. Doesn't matter how well you ride the cobbles if some jackass in front of you causes a big crash.

Should be a lot of fun to watch.

May God help Samuel Sanchez and his Euskaltel team in the fight for position in the field.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Stage 7 of the Giro on the Strade Bianche was the best flat stage of a GT I have ever seen. And at the end it was the strongest riders (Evans, Vinokourov, Cunego, etc) who prevailed, not some fluke (apart from the Liquigas crash, but the final result suggests that their time losses weren't terminal).

I hope the pave will be the same sort of thing, but given how conservatively the GT teams ride the first week of le Tour I'm a little worried it will be a procession just like every other flat stage.

Yea, you have the problem of Giro vs. Tour there (Giro raced aggressively by a smaller number of contenders, Tour raced defensively by a large pool of contenders).

You also had the problem that Vino, Evans and Cunego, three of the strongest riders on that stage, had also been in top form for the Ardennes Classics a couple of weeks earlier, with two of the three winning one of them. With them likely to lose form towards the end of the race (as clearly happened), they had to make as much time as they could in the early going, while they were the ones on form. It made for an incredible stage, but many of us (myself very much included) were rather upset by how it eliminated so many people from contention. The L'Aquila stage salvaged what could have been quite a flat ending to the Giro by giving us yet another story to focus on. Such risks would never be taken in the Tour; there aren't key riders who come into it in peak form from a race a couple of weeks earlier (Janez Brajkovic excepted), so everybody's aiming to peak for the same time (the third week). Therefore people are more willing to hold off festivities and just make sure they don't lose too much time until we get to that final week. All the stages between Arenberg and Station des Rousses will be completely depressing non-events, for example.

 

[El Imbatido]

Cancellara's new bike

and a close up of the battery

 

[hughmoore]

Im only speculating but would think Lance, Evans, Menchov would be going flat out to get some time on Contador and Schlek early on. Dont see why not, better to be on the front.

I couldnt imagine Cancellara riding off dragging Evans and co along and dropping the Schlecks.

Its a flat stage and they hit the cobbles at approx 160km. I can see they sprinters teams having day off afters stages one and two, then go again on stages four, five and six.

Shack, BMC will all be fighting for space on the narrow cobbles, assume wont be much chance passing in numbers.


Hugh

 

[Archibald]

could be a moment for someone like Hincapie to escape and try for a stage win - small team, good cobblestone rider, not too much needed to "protect" leader, chance for some team coverage...
closest he'll ever get to winning on them in northern france

 

[BroDeal]

Im only speculating but would think Lance, Evans, Menchov would be going flat out to get some time on Contador and Schlek early on. Dont see why not, better to be on the front.

Menchov will be praying to whatever saints Russians pray to that he does not die during the stage. No rider will want to come closer than two bike lengths from him.

This simple diagram shows what the peloton will look like during stage 3.

 

[hrotha]

Menchov will be praying to whatever saints Russians pray to that he does not die during the stage. No rider will want to come closer than two bike lengths from him.

This simple diagram shows what the peloton will look like during stage 3.

Had he been selected, where would Danielson be?

 

[BroDeal]

Had he been selected, where would Danielson be?

He would have gotten sick and dropped out before stage 3.

 

[sonofjive]

Yea, you have the problem of Giro vs. Tour there (Giro raced aggressively by a smaller number of contenders, Tour raced defensively by a large pool of contenders).

You also had the problem that Vino, Evans and Cunego, three of the strongest riders on that stage, had also been in top form for the Ardennes Classics a couple of weeks earlier, with two of the three winning one of them. With them likely to lose form towards the end of the race (as clearly happened), they had to make as much time as they could in the early going, while they were the ones on form. It made for an incredible stage, but many of us (myself very much included) were rather upset by how it eliminated so many people from contention. The L'Aquila stage salvaged what could have been quite a flat ending to the Giro by giving us yet another story to focus on. Such risks would never be taken in the Tour; there aren't key riders who come into it in peak form from a race a couple of weeks earlier (Janez Brajkovic excepted), so everybody's aiming to peak for the same time (the third week). Therefore people are more willing to hold off festivities and just make sure they don't lose too much time until we get to that final week. All the stages between Arenberg and Station des Rousses will be completely depressing non-events, for example.

Yeah fair call, but I got caught out thinking pretty much the same thing in the first few stages of the giro.

Even though the tour contenders are on a much more level playing field in terms of form, as you say, stages like this can mean real time bonuses regardless. In the Giro, even if Vinokourov and Evans hadn't carried their form from La Fleche and Liege the right tactic would have been to attack and see what time they could gain on the dirt roads. In the tour sadly, I don't think any team will have the cojones.

The only team (IMHO) who could make the pave interesting is BMC. They don't have anything to lose - they (should) know that Evans won't be strong enough in the last week, but I think he will be stronger on the cobbles than the other contenders. AND they have Hincapie, Burghardt and Ballan: this is the stage where they can make a race of it.

In the end, I would pay serious money to see a flat stage make a GC selection in the tour, but I think I will be waiting a long time.

 

[scribe]

could be a moment for someone like Hincapie to escape and try for a stage win - small team, good cobblestone rider, not too much needed to "protect" leader, chance for some team coverage...
closest he'll ever get to winning on them in northern france

That is a good point. Maybe getting too old for it now though.

 

[wiry pyruvity]

i definitely see this asa chance for chavanel to make himself as serious contender...he's savy enough to gain enough time to perhaps slightly compensate for the losses he'll have in the mountains.

 

[Barrus]

Menchov will be praying to whatever saints Russians pray to that he does not die during the stage. No rider will want to come closer than two bike lengths from him.

This simple diagram shows what the peloton will look like during stage 3.

What about Gesink?

BTW doesn't Euskaltel ride P-R each year?

 

[scribe]

i definitely see this asa chance for chavanel to make himself as serious contender...he's savy enough to gain enough time to perhaps slightly compensate for the losses he'll have in the mountains.

A tour with someone other than a mountain goat, rather successfully trying to limit losses in the mountains, would be great to watch.

 

[wiry pyruvity]

A tour with someone other than a mountain goat, rather successfully trying to limit losses in the mountains, would be great to watch.

remember the year Voeckler was in yellow...and he fought so hard to saty there while Lance and Ullrich raped the mountains...he held on for a bit...that was inspiring...

 

[Steampunk]

i definitely see this asa chance for chavanel to make himself as serious contender...he's savy enough to gain enough time to perhaps slightly compensate for the losses he'll have in the mountains.

Yes. Or Hushovd, unless he's called on to see Sastre over the cobbles. But maybe Cervelo will give him free license to go for the green jersey this early.

 

[Iker_Baqueiro]

Some guy said that Armstrong destroyed Zulle and Mayo by "ambushing" them on the cobblestones. Can anyone elaborate on these stories if they are true? or point me to an article.

Thank you,

 

[JackRabbitSlims]

Bike Swap??

I'm unsure of the rules regarding swapping out Bikes during the stage. Do you think we will see certain riders going for a bike change close to the cobbles section at the end of the stage.......going for a more PR spec'd rig suited to the terrain??