Cardiac Anomalies - is something going on or is this normal?

[laarsland]

Not implying there is a major effect, but a small yet significant one of the recent pandemic. Trusting science to conduct the proper studies in time.

Wesley Kreder now with reported serious issues as well.

 

[Ilmaestro99]

Wesley Kreder

https://twitter.com/x/status/1701890809803505679

View: https://twitter.com/TeamCOFIDIS/status/1701890809803505679?t=2kl764JL6pvEBbNMirdWUQ&s=19

 

[fmk_RoI]

So you admit that Colbrelli didn't have a cardiac arrest? Why then did you mention him?

Let me get this clear: you are saying that Colbrelli did not suffer a cardiac arrest, yes?

You know what, save me the annoyance of answering that question, I'm low on Neurofen. I'll edit the entry instead, just to help you.

On the other matter: there are - or, before its most recent edit, there were - nine cases of identified cardiac arrest/heart attack specifically mentioned in the OP. Not all of these came from the Beneulux countries. Even if we narrow the list down to identified cases of cardiac arrest/heart attack in the last, say, five years, not all of these came from the Benelux countries. Even if we limit ourselves further and look only at 2022-2023 cases, not all of these came from the Benelux countries. . Your "carefully phrased" claim that "the cardiac arrests of pro cyclists are all from Benelux" was and continues to be as inaccurate as it was careless.

 

[Netserk]

Let me get this clear: you are saying that Colbrelli did not suffer a cardiac arrest, yes?

You are free to quote your source where it says so.

 

[fmk_RoI]

Of course @Netserk drew the similarity to the cases of Draaijer, Oosterbosch & Co.

None of which are mentioned in the OP referred to (for bloody good reasons) but, hey, never let facts get in the way of saying the first thing that comes into your mind.

But of course every cycling fan with some knowledge just thinks about those incidents and the rumored EPO cause when these coronaries seems to happen frequently again in cycling.

I know I'm an eternal optimist, but at this stage of the game I really would hope that if not every cycling fan then certainly most cycling fans know just how much bullcrap there is in the myth of the EPO deaths.

 

[fmk_RoI]

You are free to quote your source where it says so.

I do like it when people double down like this.

So, we're clear: Netserk says Sonny Colbrelli did not have a heart attack. It must be true.

 

[Netserk]

I do like it when people double down like this.

So, we're clear: Netserk says Sonny Colbrelli did not have a heart attack. It must be true.

Your claim now in the OP that he did. Yet you link to a source that make no mention of it.

 

[fmk_RoI]

Your claim now in the OP that he did. Yet you link to a source that make no mention of it.

From the linked article:

Doctors have confirmed that Sonny Colbrelli suffered an unstable cardiac arrhythmia that required defibrillators for immediate treatment following his collapse at the finish line of stage 1 at the Volta a Catalunya Monday.

If anyone has any Nuerofen to spare, please, I'm serious, I'm all out at this end and this is clearly going to get more painful yet.

 

[SHAD0W93]

I do like it when people double down like this.

So, we're clear: Netserk says Sonny Colbrelli did not have a heart attack. It must be true.

Too be fair, cardiac arrest and a heart attack are two different things. Colbrelli had a cardiac arrest which is why he had to get defibrillated to get out of the fatal rhythm. The rhythm was either ventricular tachycardia without a pulse or ventricular fibrillation. A heart attack is when one of the coronary arteries becomes blocked by a clot and that piece of the heart stops receiving oxygen.

 

[fmk_RoI]

Too be fair, cardiac arrest and a heart attack are two different things.

TBF, if Dr Netserk knows the difference between the two I'd be f'ing surprised.

I have, lazily I know, used the the terms interchanageably when referring to Colbrelli, mostly correctly calling it a cardiac arrest, once without thinking calling it a heart attack ("Nurse! I need that Neurofen! Stat!").

WRT the cases in the OP, given the sources, I'm not sure the distinction is noted when sources mention either and we must allow a certain amount of interchangeability between the two. Or else clumsily refer to 'cardiac arrest/heart attack' unless we specifically know which one it really was. Let the situation and the sources decide what level of looseness of language is acceptable.

 

[Izzyeviel]

Wesley Kreder

https://twitter.com/x/status/1701890809803505679

View: https://twitter.com/TeamCOFIDIS/status/1701890809803505679?t=2kl764JL6pvEBbNMirdWUQ&s=19

Its a bit sad that this news is buried in the clinic & hasn't been posted elsewhere.

 

[pastronef]

Its a bit sad that this news is buried in the clinic & hasn't been posted elsewhere.

Cofidis just gave the news today, after 2 weeks

 

[Ilmaestro99]

Its a bit sad that this news is buried in the clinic & hasn't been posted elsewhere.

I put it in news thread

 

[Izzyeviel]

I put it in news thread

In fairness I thought it was old news. If its new news, thats more understandable.

 

[fmk_RoI]

As a rule, I do think CN reports this stuff better than others, providing the right context:

Kreder is the first of two WorldTour pros to suffer serious health ailments in the past two weeks, with Nathan Vanhooydonck (Jumbo-Visma) more recently collapsing while driving and having to be resuscitated.

A 2022 study by the Smidt Heart Institute at Cedars-Sinai found that heart attacks have increased since the COVID-19 pandemic with the steepest rise in the 25-44 age group during the surge in cases of the Omicron variant (Yeo et al. Journal of Medical Virology, Volume 95, Issue 1, January 2023).

linketylink

 

[Ilmaestro99]

Former junior Paris roubaix winner Jarno Mobach, 25, is retiring from professional cycling due to cardiac arrhytmias.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1706587231274598593

View: https://twitter.com/WielerFlits/status/1706587231274598593?t=BSJ-N_3wWDZKXdVGlpFrZw&s=19

 

[Red Rick]

Hate to be that guy, but we can leave COVID conspiracies out of it

 

[RedheadDane]

Hate to be that guy, but we can leave COVID conspiracies out of it

Aww... you deleted it.
@Oldermanish still gave me a mental image I can't quite shake...

 

[Oldermanish]

Hate to be that guy, but we can leave COVID conspiracies out of it

Yeah but it was a note of actual events in response to how press would handle impending variants, or something close to that. It's a challenge very much like the suggestions about increased heart events from other introduced "aids". Taking excessive recovery elements be they banned or squeaky homeopathic do continue the demand an athlete can endure.
Back in the Day you had many iconic riders suffering stomach ailments that ended up terminal. More recent decades the incidence of knee injuries, separate of crashing seemed to be common. Supplements that were prevalent in those times (or were illegal) are aggressively banned now. Assuming a sophisticated level of cleanliness it's realistic to ask how much work load is too much? What allows it to happen? Many riders caught the bug and, at some point began training.

Per fmk Rol:
He's not actually saying that he himself was diagnosed with Pericarditis. Nor has Maghalie Rochette identified heart issues as the cause of her fatigue.

In terms of riders we know have suffered diagnosed heart complaints related to Covid in the last three years. we still only know of fewer than a dozen cases at WT level and no more than five cases in the women's peloton.

That seems reasonable if the general body of athletes recognize that the fatigue isn't going to get medicated out of existence and they can train hard again. Recovery is necessary.
Still, there is still a large group in the public sphere that believe vaccines are responsible (and always have) for both the illness and the cardiac events they see in sport. There are notable highly paid pro athletes in several disciplines that continue to believe it, publicly.

 

[pastronef]

Dutch rider Mark Groeneveld dies age 20

XSpeed United Continental racer collapsed early Monday while in Hong Kong

www.cyclingnews.com

 

[Bolder]

Really sad, whatever the circumstances.

As someone who suffers from heart problems myself, I think teams are willfully ignoring the need to do regular and compléte cardiac workups, including Holter monitoring, on riders. Training and racing (and clinic stuff) put a huge amount of stress on the heart.

 

[samhocking]

UCI requires the Pro & WT teams complete a cardiovascular risk questionnaire, rest electrocardiogram (12 leads) & Asthma or exercise-induced bronchoconstriction (EIB) & Pulmonary function testing annually so the worst teams are testing once a year, but not sure it's a Holter time period used for the ECG, but I'd bet many of the richer teams are monitoring more than once a year.

 

[Rob5091]

Being an idiot (and with a tin-foil hat) I'll post this and see if anyone thinks it has any relevance - there were reports of increased training and harder competitions which could have been a factor behind the cause of deaths -
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/9259081/

Interaction between infection and exercise with special reference to myocarditis and the increased frequency of sudden deaths among young Swedish orienteers 1979-92​

Infection and fever evoke a cytokine-mediated host response resulting in negative nitrogen balance, muscle protein degradation, which includes the skeletal muscles as well as the heart muscle, and deteriorated muscle function. Physical training has an opposite effect. Moderate physical training also stimulates the immune system, whereas exhaustive and longlasting exercise is followed by a temporary immunodeficiency and an increased susceptibility to respiratory tract infections. Exercise in the acute phase of an infection may promote complications including myocarditis. Exercise in myocarditis is associated with increased organism-associated as well as immune mediated tissue damage. An increased sudden death (SUD) rate among young Swedish male orienteers existed in 1979-92, suggesting (a) common underlying cause(s). Myocarditis was one of the most conspicuous histopathological features. Chlamydia pneumoniae, or a similar organism cross reacting in diagnostic tests, is hypothesized to be a factor causing this increased death rate. High frequency of intense exercise sessions, which was a common practice among the deceased, may have been immunosuppressive, promoting the development of severe myocardial disease.

 

[fmk_RoI]

If folk are to be believed, cycling - racing - is inherently unhealthy.

Did Hippocrates really say that "The athletic development is not natural; much better the ordinary healthy condition of the body”? Who cares! It's too good not to be true!

We haven't quite had anyone saying that a good Tour takes a year off your life, a bad one more (Philippa York was full of crap science even pre-transition and credulous hacks hanging on to her every word) but we're getting there, with the claim that riders are looking 10 years older than their real age.

The problem with this bullcrap is that, as usual, the evidence does not back it up.

Sanchis-Gomar et al's 2011 paper Increased average longevity among the "Tour de France" cyclists doesn't support this pet theory beloved by some ("Our major finding is that repeated very intense exercise prolongs life span in well trained practitioners").

Marijon et al's 2013 paper Mortality of French participants in the Tour de France (1947-2012) doesn't support this pet theory beloved by some ("We observed a substantially and significantly lower mortality in participants in the Tour de France, compared with the general male population.").

Davison's 2021 paper Tour de France 'yellow jersey' wearers live significantly longer doesn't support this pet theory beloved by some ("these and other results now seem to challenge the common belief that large lifetime volumes of exercise could be harmful to health and thus longevity.").

But, yeah, despite the evidence, all that cycling that cyclists do, of course it's the problem. Has to be, people with heart problems say it, and they're the experts in this stuff.

 

[Mayomaniac]

Might be some new gear, might be the additional stress that the higher speeds that they reach with the new "prep" put on the cardiovascular system, might even be the abuse of Ketone drinks:

"Administration of ketones to healthy fasting individuals results in an increase in systolic blood pressure, heart rate, biventricular function, and left ventricular and left atrial strain, similar to several effects observed in the failing heart"
Source: https://www.nature.com/articles/s44161-023-00259-1